charles.K wrote:
Again I will only be drawn into this discussion for one last time! I cannot believe the energy you are spending in this thread. It is New Year's Eve, do you have a life? Do you actual capture images and present them?
Happy New Year
I do. I'm actually polishing the tunnel on one of my snowmobiles, getting it ready for a possible ride tomorrow. It's important to look good too. I take the occasional break so here I am.
After that I will get ready for New Year's Eve - I'm a ways away from New Years here.
I do capture images. I do not present them, they're my personal project. A number of years ago, I did present in a 200 member camera club, and did very well. Out of the 3 or 4 years I competed, I did end up photographer of the year based on results of several competitions.
But I'm finished with that. It was nice at the time, but I have no interest in sharing images. There's a few on DPR embedded in threads from time to time to make a point, typically nothing that is a favorite of mine. Everyone gets their own thing out of photography, some money, some accolades (Vbuhay on DPR just did a post celebrating his 66 1st place Challenge winner), some get prestige amount their peers, some like a pat on the back and a dozen likes. I just like to get away and take some shots. I make them count, shooting like it's slide film that I can't afford, so I'll never put tens of thousands of shots on a body. For my own enjoyment. Most are still on cards somewhere. In this age of the internet there's no value to a photograph. Everyone now has seen millions. Every once in awhile a friend will see one on my notebook and rave about it, but I never show them a selection. As I said, they see millions, so only a moments thrill, for want of a better word
Steve Spencer wrote:
I think what you are missing it that people are not "licking" each other, which if it isn't obvious is a pretty gross and demeaning term. People here have a history and some people are respected for that history. Because they have said thoughtful and well reasoned things and because they have posted lots of very good photos people take them seriously. That is going to be true in any forum and yes some people are respected for their history here. Your reducing that to calling people "yes men," and especially to saying people are "licking" each other is pretty rude.
Also I think it is time to drop your grievances from other forums. They have no place here. Let's talk about what is said here and not your history on another forum. This is FM and rehashing what happened somewhere else has no place here.
The pros and cons of this video have been discussed thoroughly here. You think it is fair and balanced. Other do not, so be it we can agree to disagree. My own view is that at times in the video Jared is pretty balanced in his assessment and does a good job of describing why he made the choices for his photography that he did. I also think, however, that when making recommendations for his followers he is far less balanced and makes several way over the top statements (e.g., not appreciating how f/1.8 can be a great thing for many of his followers who do not need f/1.2 or f/1.4 glass or an f/2 zoom; not appreciating that eye AF won't be the end all and be all for all his followers.)
Anyway, I hope you have a happy new year and that you can start the new year with a new approach that doesn't use gross and demeaning ways to talk to and describe others....Show more →
I stand firm on the "yes men", licking was a typo. "liking"
I agree on the re-hashing. A few others brought it up, but I should not have brought Lance into it. I had intended to set that straight in a reply to 1bwana1. I have no issue if someone else wants to comment on me here. Water that just runs off me. I block no one on DPR and I report no one. I stay away from that childishness.
Whether Jared likes 1.8 lenses or not should not be a big deal to anyone. There's not going to be all good in a review for the most part. It's one opinion. I didn't make my decision on buying a Zee or not on 1.4 glass availability.
Happy New Year to you as well. The New Year will depend on how much bs gets thrown my way. FWIW, earlier on I would get PMs over on DPR for standing up to the fellows that got on with the crap like the fellow in the "looking for Z7 advice" got. Most people are very meek and mild, and they're probably more so as they age, so they just take it and walk away.
A few years ago Fred purposely put a feature on all the boards called "Multi Quote." By using that, you can respond to many different posts in just one of your own. Saves space and reduces thread bumping and abuse by certain members.
It's right down at the bottom by the "like" button.
My head said stay with my Sony a9 and a7R3. My heart made me ditch it and get a Z7 after I was able to borrow one. Just finished selling my Sony stuff. Sony has a great system, but Nikon works me for me (as a hobbyist). It is a very personal decision and both have the specs that most of us need. The worst part for me was leaving the Batis lenses.
T-O Shooter wrote:
I do. I'm actually polishing the tunnel on one of my snowmobiles, getting it ready for a possible ride tomorrow. It's important to look good too. I take the occasional break so here I am.
After that I will get ready for New Year's Eve - I'm a ways away from New Years here.
I do capture images. I do not present them, they're my personal project. A number of years ago, I did present in a 200 member camera club, and did very well. Out of the 3 or 4 years I competed, I did end up photographer of the year based on results of several competitions.
But I'm finished with that. It was nice at the time, but I have no interest in sharing images. There's a few on DPR embedded in threads from time to time to make a point, typically nothing that is a favorite of mine. Everyone gets their own thing out of photography, some money, some accolades (Vbuhay on DPR just did a post celebrating his 66 1st place Challenge winner), some get prestige amount their peers, some like a pat on the back and a dozen likes. I just like to get away and take some shots. I make them count, shooting like it's slide film that I can't afford, so I'll never put tens of thousands of shots on a body. For my own enjoyment. Most are still on cards somewhere. In this age of the internet there's no value to a photograph. Everyone now has seen millions. Every once in awhile a friend will see one on my notebook and rave about it, but I never show them a selection. As I said, they see millions, so only a moments thrill, for want of a better word
On so many levels, this is such a sad soliloquy... I don't mean that as some sort of derogatory put-down, it just speaks to so much time wasted. That may not have been the intention, it's simply my take-away....
T-O Shooter wrote:
You will find that has been my point. The only thing that matters is the image, and there's very little difference in capturing it with any gear in 2019. I've challenged people on DPR, including Lance personally, to put up an image taken with a Zee lens on a Z, and an f mount on a comparable DSLR (Z7 to D850 would work) and show me where the lens makes the difference. Referring to Lance, he said well he no longer had the f mount glass and whatever.
As an explanation why he's so anti T-O, he's been a little miffed with me ever since I pointed out on DPR that he is technically a very good photographer and very good at post processing but artistically not so much. I figured he knew that. I thought he would get over it, but I guess not. ...Show more →
. Miffed at your comment on my photographic ability? That goes way back well before your comment on what you think about my photographic ability. Anyway, I could care less what you think and it stands to reason that you *have to* make such a comment to try make me look bad and thus try to bolster your argument against me. Any admission of ability would undermine your arguments against me and my opinions. However, if I am so good at the technical side, then I should be good at discerning what lenses are better than others. Also, doing a back to back lens comparo is also fraught with danger and accusations of bias by any who were a fan of one or the other, a no win situation. The fact of the matter is, every reputable reviewer has stated that the Z lenses are generally better to very much better than their F mount counterparts in basically all departments as far as IQ, resolution etc are concerned. It's interesting how everyone that has tried them agrees. The only ones putting up a fight are the DSLR/F mount die-hards because they don't want to ever admit that the Z mounts may actually be better. As for your assertion that "The only thing that matters is the image, and there's very little difference in capturing it with any gear in 2019". That may be for you, but not for everyone else, your standards for lens IQ are obviously very low.
I also think it is interesting that you stick with your anonymity, no real name, no photos. Nothing of substance, just arguments.
mapgraphs wrote:
On so many levels, this is such a sad soliloquy... I don't mean that as some sort of derogatory put-down, it just speaks to so much time wasted. That may not have been the intention, it's simply my take-away....
OOL...to sum it up... If you want to go mirrorless, the Z platform isn't the way to go. Since Jared sold his F mount glass, he has no choice but to shoot Sony. He is pretty much saying that you may as well stick with the F mount DSLR instead of the Z platform.
Lance B wrote: . Miffed at your comment on my photographic ability? That goes way back well before your comment. Anyway, I could care less what you think and it stands to reason that you *have to* make such a comment to try make me look bad and thus try to bolster your argument against me. Any admission of ability would undermine your arguments against me and my opinions. However, if I am so good at the technical side, then I should be good at discerning what lenses are better than others. Also, doing a back to back lens comparo is also fraught with danger and accusations of bias because by any who were a fan of one or the other, a no win situation. The fact of the matter is, every reputable reviewer has stated that the Z lenses are generally better to very much better than their F mount counterparts in basically all departments as far as IQ, resolution etc are concerned. It's interesting how everyone that has tried them agrees. The only ones putting up a fight are the DSLR/F mount die-hards because they don't want to ever admit that the Z mounts may actually be better. As for your assertion that "The only thing that matters is the image, and there's very little difference in capturing it with any gear in 2019". That may be for you, but not for everyone else, your standards for lens IQ are obviously very low.
I also think it is interesting that you stick with your anonymity, no real name, no photos. Nothing of substance, just arguments. ...Show more →
How much less could you care?
I have no argument against you. You want to believe things have to have a side; there has to be tribalism. I do not. I simply just don't like what the Z6 and Z7 are. Of no use to me. With several flaws.
Do you know how foolish this sounds? Every reputable reviewer ...................... You should say every reviewer that sees it your way. And my point is that while the Zee lenses might score better at shooting brick walls and test charts, any difference is not enough to make or break the final image. I have some very high quality lenses, but it's the composition, lighting, subject, angle, cropping and several other things that make the image great, not which lens you choose. The world's greatest images never depended on shooting a Zeiss lens and it will never depend on shooting a Zee lens.
There's two types of fellows on forums. Self important ones that need their names displayed and ones that don't. I didn't join photography forums to show images. I've seen enough challenges on DPR to know 75% of them have no idea what a "good" image is. Both are my prerogative. Think it interesting all you want.
TooManyShots wrote: OOL...to sum it up... If you want to go mirrorless, the Z platform isn't the way to go. Since Jared sold his F mount glass, he has no choice but to shoot Sony. He is pretty much saying that you may as well stick with the F mount DSLR instead of the Z platform.
Well, I suppose one could buy some Zee glass, silly as that option might sound. I think they made the Zee lenses to fit the Zee bodies. Just a guess.
I have no argument against you. You want to believe things have to have a side; there has to be tribalism. I do not. I simply just don't like what the Z6 and Z7 are. Of no use to me. With several flaws.
But *your* tribalism is the D850 and the F mount, or your wouldn't be so vocal about defending it. You cannot deny that fact.
o you know how foolish this sounds? Every reputable reviewer ...................... You should say every reviewer that sees it your way.
. The reputable reviewers are the ones that the majority tout as knowing their stuff, F mount users and Z mount users alike. There is a consensus here about the regularly linked to reputable reviewers.
And my point is that while the Zee lenses might score better at shooting brick walls and test charts, any difference is not enough to make or break the final image. I have some very high quality lenses, but it's the composition, lighting, subject, angle, cropping and several other things that make the image great, not which lens you choose. The world's greatest images never depended on shooting a Zeiss lens and it will never depend on shooting a Zee lens.
But that has defining parameters. Where you draw the line is only your belief, not everyone else's. And yes, a better lens will often make the image better, just like when a better F mount lens came along that was better than the previous F mount lens and better than the one before it. Are you stuck back with the original iteration of lenses? No. You're trying to argue that it doesn't matter to you, which is quite irrelevant to the discussion, but you cannot deny that they are better. Your argument sounds like the pure Luddite. The point is, the mount does make a difference, the Z mount is the future and that seems to stick in your craw.
There's two types of fellows on forums. Self important ones that need their names displayed and ones that don't. I didn't join photography forums to show images.
Yet your self importance doesn't seem to stop you voicing your opinion. That is self importance as well.
I've seen enough challenges on DPR to know 75% of them have no idea what a "good" image is. Both are my prerogative. Think it interesting all you want.
. So, to get this straight, the majority doesn't know what the majority likes? To quote you, "Do you know how foolish this sounds?"
DapperedGator wrote:
I've finally encountered an unfriendly Canadian. What a treat to end 2019! The Hide Me list grows.
Those Canadians are actually diabolical. They have been pretending to be nice for over 300 years in order to trick us into complacency. They are planning to swoop down in a surprise attack and oppress us by raising taxes, and forcing government healthcare on us. Oh yeah, they are also planning to take most of the water out of our beer.
Diabolical I say. Build the wall it is our only hope.
Canadians get really grumpy after ridding their snowmobiles all day. It gives them rashes in bad places.
1bwana1 wrote:
Those Canadians are actually diabolical. They have been pretending to be nice for over 300 years in order to trick us into complacency. They are planning to swoop down in a surprise attack and oppress us by raising taxes, and forcing government healthcare on us. Oh yeah, they are also planning to take most of the water out of our beer.
Diabolical I say. Build the wall it is our only hope.
Canadians get really grumpy after ridding their snowmobiles all day. It gives them rashes in bad places.
Canada is also building a formidable air force to take on the USAF! remember our canadian geese and the jet in the Hudson?
we have a whole flock of kamikaze geese ready to go
Page 7 and still going. I'm positive one member could not push this topic that so many think is rediculous to page 7. The OP needed an awful lot of help from other members. Think about it...a topic everyone is sick of, yet it reaches 7 pages. Maybe that says a lot of some members here.
chez wrote:
Page 7 and still going. I'm positive one member could not push this topic that so many think is rediculous to page 7. The OP needed an awful lot of help from other members. Think about it...a topic everyone is sick of, yet it reaches 7 pages. Maybe that says a lot of some members here.
Yet you're here pushing it even further...
But I will add:
TO Shooter = 25 posts up till now - thread starter
1bwana1 = 25 posts up till now.
sjms = 17 posts up till now
Me = 12 posts up till now.
Chambeshi = 6 posts up till now
Brian SP = 5 posts up till now
Charles K = 5 posts up till now
Interestingly, the two wop posters in this thread do not own either a Z6 or Z7. In fact, they make up more posts on this thread than the next five combined.
I enjoyed the one year review of the Z cameras by Hudson Henry so much that I thought I would take a look at his video on the Z focusing system. Again an informative, and enjoyable presentation.
Back when I tested the Z 7 at release I found the focusing system to very deficient feature wise, and in some situations all but useless.
As Hudson showed, it has become more feature rich, and better since the upgrades. I can see how in most use cases it is usable.
However, in all honesty guys it still looks pretty far behind the FF mirrorless focusing system of Canon, and miles behind Sony. It is not just BIF where it is just not good on any level, including buffer. It lags performance wise in almost all things AF-C. Advanced features like tracking and Eye-AF are limited to one mode where performance is still lagging. The advanced features in Wide Focus Area is why he recommends using it. The competition has these features in all modes, including video. The workflow to use tracking is horrendous ergonomically as Thom Hogan has said. At the end of the video Hudson came right out and said that he if knows he will be shooting action (not just BIF) he brings his DSLRs instead.
I think those who have not used the latest generation from Sony may be just unaware of the progress that has been made in this area. You are minimizing the differences in most of your thread posts. It is still very big.
I was surprised to tell you the truth. Yes, it can be used to capture sharp images even in some action scenarios. I have seen images that prove this. But AF-C is still just not competitive from what I saw in the demo. Hopefully, more firmware updates are coming to address this.
Unless Hudson is not doing it right, which I accept as a possibility. If you know of a better video on this subject please post a link.
. Miffed at your comment on my photographic ability? That goes way back well before your comment on what you think about my photographic ability. Anyway, I could care less what you think and it stands to reason that you *have to* make such a comment to try make me look bad and thus try to bolster your argument against me. Any admission of ability would undermine your arguments against me and my opinions. However, if I am so good at the technical side, then I should be good at discerning what lenses are better than others. Also, doing a back to back lens comparo is also fraught with danger and accusations of bias by any who were a fan of one or the other, a no win situation. The fact of the matter is, every reputable reviewer has stated that the Z lenses are generally better to very much better than their F mount counterparts in basically all departments as far as IQ, resolution etc are concerned. It's interesting how everyone that has tried them agrees. The only ones putting up a fight are the DSLR/F mount die-hards because they don't want to ever admit that the Z mounts may actually be better. As for your assertion that "The only thing that matters is the image, and there's very little difference in capturing it with any gear in 2019". That may be for you, but not for everyone else, your standards for lens IQ are obviously very low. 
