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Archive 2019 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7

  
 
Max Power
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p.4 #1 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


sjms wrote:
it is fortunate and unfortunate that we live in an environment where we are free to express our thoughts no matter what direction they are coming from and going to. it is called freedom of speech. this site to a very high extent runs with that in mind. unless it gets way out of control all sides get their day. those who truly abuse that do trip over themselves and end up causing their own demise. there is "moderation" here its just not authoritarian. for the most part we moderate ourselves.



True enough. The self moderation here seems more effective than heavier moderation elsewhere, I am not sure why. The person who started this thread has been drummed out of subforums over at DPR for similar behavior. So, he brings his whining about the Zees to the FX forums, soiling the bed there as well. We have been treated to about 800 updates of what he shoots, what about the Zees doesn't work for him, etc. None of us care. If there was a shut up button, I would have hit it ages ago.

I understand Bwanas point here, but this guy, most everybody has had their fill. The responses to him pretty much tell you that.



Dec 30, 2019 at 10:11 AM
sjms
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p.4 #2 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


T-O Shooter: talks a picture
1bwana1: takes a picture

1bwana1: tends to speak of cash value with some times limited and questionable data




Dec 30, 2019 at 10:42 AM
matt-to
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p.4 #3 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


He is vulgar and keeps bashing camera brands but sadly this is how you make money on Youtube now. With video titles like "Why Nikon is DUMB" or "You will not believe what happens at the end of the video" etc... it's just completely gross.

He was not that gross in the past. I stopped following him after he bashed Olympus/EM1X. That was absolutely not necessary, especially that it's a great camera. I'd be OK with constructive criticism, not click-bait nor vulgarity, I leave that to his fan base.



Dec 30, 2019 at 10:59 AM
1bwana1
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p.4 #4 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


sjms wrote:
T-O Shooter: talks a picture
1bwana1: takes a picture

1bwana1: tends to speak of cash value with some times limited and questionable data



Whenever I speak of the amount of income that YouTubers make, I am never speaking of fact. You are right, it is undeterminable. I believe that the 57 Million number is as unlikely as a 1 million dollar number. I linked to it because it was so outlandish. Have some fun with it.

Jared Polin has posted an interesting video on his site telling the history of his YouTube business. The reason he developed the persona he has is almost B.F. Skinner. It is because it paid him.

As I have stated, I am not for censorship based on subject matter. However, rude or disrespectful behaviour directed at other members should not be tolerated by either the membership, or the management of FM.

Look, Nikon is going through some tough times right now on a variety of levels. It is natural that this becomes the subject of discussions. Nikon will pull through and recover, and the posts will fade away.

I don't think anyone made a mistake buying any of the Nikon cameras and lenses, including the Z cameras. If shooting them enhances their enjoyment of the hobby, I am nothing but pleased. With the Z cameras I do think Nikon the company made some conceptual mistakes when designing them, operational mistakes and marketing mistakes on the release. The market, and even Nikon leadership, seems to agree at least to some degree.



Edited on Dec 30, 2019 at 11:50 AM · View previous versions



Dec 30, 2019 at 11:24 AM
sjms
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p.4 #5 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


its stuff like that that drives their ego too along with their followers

Edited on Dec 30, 2019 at 03:51 PM · View previous versions



Dec 30, 2019 at 11:39 AM
Fursan
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p.4 #6 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


2 days ago, I got me a z6 kit. Along with the 50/1.8S

I have some issues in this FIRST gen Nikon product. But nothing drastic for my kind of shooting.

If I miss one bird, another one shall come along!

It takes me a whole couple of hours just to put on my shoes. I could also visit a zoo, if I am eager for birds with feathers.

What I shoot move slower than me...so the z6 is great for me. If only they give me those blinkies when shooting.



Dec 30, 2019 at 11:46 AM
1bwana1
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p.4 #7 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


sjms wrote:
actually its been fair to me.



Yes, we are blessed.




Dec 30, 2019 at 11:53 AM
Buckeye2604
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p.4 #8 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


I try not to take Jared too seriously. He talked about taking the A7riv to shoot Bernie Sanders, but if you watch that video he still had issues with the Sony in low light. Maybe a D850 is really what’s best for him? I think people right now place too high value on eye AF. Everything is eye AF and all other camera attributes are glosses over now, it’s bizarre. I had a D600 and mastered that focus system with its small af coverage. I’m in a dreamland now with the Z6.


Dec 30, 2019 at 12:30 PM
Max Power
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p.4 #9 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


Buckeye2604 wrote:
I try not to take Jared too seriously. He talked about taking the A7riv to shoot Bernie Sanders, but if you watch that video he still had issues with the Sony in low light. Maybe a D850 is really what’s best for him? I think people right now place too high value on eye AF. Everything is eye AF and all other camera attributes are glosses over now, it’s bizarre. I had a D600 and mastered that focus system with its small af coverage. I’m in a dreamland now with the Z6.


To me it's bizarre talking up the eye AF in the Canon R, while neglecting to mention that the R has no ibis. Which would most photographers prefer? Having slightly worse eye AF yet having class leading ibis, or having slightly better eye AF and no ibis at all? And he mentions how exciting the Canon lenses are, even though there is no ibis to bolt them to, and that the Nikon 24-70 has been the best rated in that focal length ever. To me that makes me question his objectivity, or at least his thoroughness in sharing information rather than just cherry picking faults.

I don't care if he prefers Sony (while stating that Nikon creates the best files). Everybody has preferences, live and let live. But highlighting the Nikon faults and not mentioning the Canon ones is a little selective.

That and his narrative style, trying to sound like a TV reporter using a tone and cadence nobody does in the real world is also very annoying.



Dec 30, 2019 at 01:26 PM
1bwana1
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p.4 #10 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


Buckeye2604 wrote:
I try not to take Jared too seriously. He talked about taking the A7riv to shoot Bernie Sanders, but if you watch that video he still had issues with the Sony in low light. Maybe a D850 is really what’s best for him? I think people right now place too high value on eye AF. Everything is eye AF and all other camera attributes are glosses over now, it’s bizarre. I had a D600 and mastered that focus system with its small af coverage. I’m in a dreamland now with the Z6.


And yet it was exactly a D850, which he had shot for years so should know well, that he dropped for the Sony a7RIV. You are suggesting he doesn't know what works best for him?

The focusing differences are not just Eye AF, they are much much bigger than that especially in AF-C and even more in tracking capabilities.

From the beginning when I first tried the Z7 I have maintained that if you want to shoot your Z Camera the same way you shot a traditional DSLR you would find the Z Cameras an improvement. If you were looking for the advanced features that other mirrorless camera brands are implementing, you would likely be disappointed.




Dec 30, 2019 at 01:30 PM
Buckeye2604
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p.4 #11 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


1bwana1 wrote:
And yet it was exactly a D850, which he had shot for years so should know well, that he dropped for the Sony a7RIV. You are suggesting he doesn't know what works best for him?


In the Z system video, Jared made a point to say he picked the best camera for the job when referncing the Bernie shoot. But in that video he had some issues with the focusing system. So yes, I’m not sure if he’s choosing what’s best for his needs or just going in the direction of the future. There’s still plenty of situations where a D850 will perform better than a A7riv. The Bernie shoot was one of them, in that situation a D850 would have been better for his needs IMO. But he has decided to focus on the future which is fine and that’s obvious from him selling all his F mount gear to “prepare for the future”.

I just sold my A7riv the other day and in my limited use it’s not amazing at continuous AF either, although better than the Z system for sure. From a professional stand point I understand the reasoning he presents for why the Z system isn’t best for his needs but I don’t think he differentiates his use case vs the average use case of 95% of his viewer base. So you have all these people thinking a Z6/7 would be inadequate for their needs when that’s not the case. I think that’s highlighted when he praises canon’s $3000 exotic lenses that once again a large majority of his user base will most likely not be interested in because of cost while failing to mention the superb 1.8 S lenses.



Dec 30, 2019 at 02:38 PM
sjms
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p.4 #12 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


If Jared complained about low light shooting with the most recent Sony I would say he’d cringe and wringe his hands with what I shoot. he works in better lighting.
if you are referring to this image of Bernie I hope there are others: https://jaredpolin.com/people






Edited on Dec 31, 2019 at 07:12 AM · View previous versions



Dec 30, 2019 at 04:01 PM
1bwana1
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p.4 #13 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


Buckeye2604 wrote:
I just sold my A7riv the other day and in my limited use it’s not amazing at continuous AF either, although better than the Z system for sure. From a professional stand point I understand the reasoning he presents for why the Z system isn’t best for his needs but I don’t think he differentiates his use case vs the average use case of 95% of his viewer base. So you have all these people thinking a Z6/7 would be inadequate for their needs when that’s not the case. I think that’s highlighted when he praises canon’s $3000 exotic lenses
...Show more


I am thinking that both you and Jared Polin made the right choice for what serves your purposes.

I am still guessing he understands his needs, and his user base much better than you do. If you were arguing the opposite opinion I am sure "sjms" would demand to see some statistical evidence for your 95% number.

I am not sure that "inadequate" is what the reviewers are positioning the Z cameras as. I think it is more like "not their first choice".

I am with you on the Nikon f/1.8 lenses. Overall they are superb from what I have seen. I would be happy shooting them for sure. I also would want to buy just a couple of "specialty" lenses that are in the 1.2 to 1.4 range.

Seems that with their mirrorless launches, Nikon came out with mid level bodies and lenses, while Canon came out with lower end bodies and high end lenses. Time will tell which was the better way to go. But Like you, I would choose the Nikon path over the Canon path for my use.



Dec 30, 2019 at 04:52 PM
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p.4 #14 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


A very level headed, non polarizing review and without the hyperbole, that was posted over at DPR. :



What I wanted to point out here and why the Jared Polin review was so polarizing. His opinions about what lenses Nikon should have delivered is just his opinion but he makes the statement as if it were absolute indisputable fact. The trouble is, he is coming from a complete professional shooter which is fine if those are the lenses you need as a professional shooter, but most of Nikon's user base is not after those absolute professional lenses. The reason I say this is that the whole point of the first iterations of the Z system was to be a *point of difference* from a professional DSLR and that is that it is small and light, for people to move to a smaller and lighter system in the first instance. The statements made by all those that buy into the system was that they love the small and light form factor, especially for travel, hiking and general street photography. Big fast heavy lenses are not that system and there would have been very few on the uptake if that was the case. Personally, I think Nikon's lens line up is the correct one so far. He *states*, "Nikon must get better glass out" as if this is a major flaw in their system. Sorry, the S mount glass *is better* and is right up there with the best by Zeiss and anyone. How much better can it be? At least he states that this is for his professional use and has to be taken in that context and that is the point, he is only looking at it from a professional's point of view, which he needs to make a bigger point of. Most of us who own our cameras are not in that boat and thus don't need f1.2 glass at this juncture. Yes, it might be nice to have but not right at this point in development, it is better to have the basic lenses and get the high end stuff later. Jared is asking to put the cart before the horse as far as lenses are concerned.

He also says that the new 70-200 f2.8S will be big, but I wonder if he really knows and as it has not come out yet he shouldn't be making a *statement* as to why it is wrong because we don't know what it will actually be like yet!

In his Bernie Sanders shoot, I still can't believe he made out that the one card slot was an issue. Also swapping lenses with the FTZ, I mean, does he really only shoot with one camera as a professional? Really? I am sure he'd have at least two and be using S mounts on one and FTZ on the other. F1.8 lenses as opposed to f1.4 lenses in low light is an issue? Really? Come on. Whatever, it is isn't the issue he makes it out to be.

The video above talks about IBIS being better on the Z6/7 than the Sony's but Jared doesn't even broach the subject as far as I can see, yet this may be more critical to many people. I find it incredibly good and great for my birding in very low light.

He is being way too polarizing, too hyperbolic.

Edited on Dec 30, 2019 at 07:50 PM · View previous versions



Dec 30, 2019 at 05:30 PM
sjms
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p.4 #15 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


I suggest he rationalizes quite a bit

He is selling himself as an opinion maker not his capabilities as a photographer

So he carefully chose his camera for Bernie.

I have photographed
multiple secretaries of interior
Mayors
Governors
Directors
VIPs
And wait that’s not all



Dec 30, 2019 at 06:31 PM
1bwana1
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p.4 #16 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


sjms wrote:
I suggest he rationalizes quite a bit

He is selling himself as an opinion maker not his capabilities as a photographer

So he carefully chose his camera for Bernie.

I have photographed
multiple secretaries of interior
Mayors
Governors
Directors
VIPs
And wait that’s not all



. Do politicians photograph differently than other people? Are they like Vampires whose reflections don't show in mirrors?

Oh wait, I missed the point, it is a chest pumping contest between you and Jared Polin.

You win, and you likely have better hair. I wonder which one of you is taller, or richer? Hmmmm....



Edited on Dec 30, 2019 at 08:31 PM · View previous versions



Dec 30, 2019 at 07:58 PM
1bwana1
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p.4 #17 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


Lance B wrote:
A very level headed, non polarizing review and without the hyperbole, that was posted over at DPR. :



What I wanted to point out here and why the Jared Polin review was so polarizing. His opinions about what lenses Nikon should have delivered is just his opinion but he makes the statement as if it were absolute indisputable fact. The trouble is, he is coming from a complete professional shooter which is fine if those are the lenses you need as a professional shooter, but most of Nikon's user base is not after those absolute professional lenses. The reason I
...Show more

I had seen that video earlier. I agree Dan Watson's style is much more pleasant than Jared Polins abrasive ways.

However, when you look at content, the decisions that these two made, are very similar.

Jared Polin is also keeping his Z6 cameras to do his video work, and for many of the same reasons as Dan Watson. It sounds to me that IBIS for video is one of those reasons.

Jared switched for stills primarily because he prefered the AF of the Sony. Dan agreed the Sony is the best in this area while Nikon is probably third even after the upgrades.

The big difference is that Dan prioritised video in his choice, while Jared went with a split equipment choice.

Dan says he is satisfied doing almost all of his work just fine with just two of the S lenses, and a third party Tamron. Jared wants a more diverse, exotic lens selection.

These two reviews are much more alike than different in content. I guess it is a bit of fatigue over so much negativity in the media about the Z Cameras that is making some so hyper-sensitive, and defensive about the criticism. Since the issues seem to be well understood, and generally agreed upon, the instinct is to attack the messenger rather than discuss the issues, and acknowledge the validity of opposing choices.

Oh well, human nature I suppose...




Dec 30, 2019 at 08:18 PM
philip_pj
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p.4 #18 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


"Don't buy the first generation of anything"

The first release of a large number of products is given lavish attention to QA measures and materials quality. It has to be good to establish a market beachhead as a reliable product and to protect against user complaints, and to verify the efficacy of manufacturing standards and processes. Beginnings are delicate times.

A case in point being Carl Zeiss ('ZEISS' is the brand name), who often do extra QA in Germany for the first run of their products (made by a certain virtually unknown maker in Japan, also known in the industry for their excellence).



Dec 30, 2019 at 08:26 PM
T-O Shooter
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p.4 #19 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


1bwana1 wrote:
You know in just the last couple of days there was a thread started by a new member to FM. He was considering buying a Z7 but had concerns caused by the number of negative reviews he had encountered during his research. He wanted to discuss these issues with people who used the camera to find out if the issues were severe enough to not to buy the camera. Most of the issues have been dealt with, or at least substantially improved by firmware since the release. The two big issues that seem to remain are with AF-C which may
...Show more

Thanks for the link. I watched part of it yesterday, and finished it just now. Street is not something I don't shoot, so I appreciate seeing a selection of it from multiple photographers. A couple or so in there that are just snaps, but the rest it's very interesting to see how someone takes the mundane and create something artistic from it.

I saw that thread. I took the OP to be genuine, but like you said, almost like a number of them have some form of PTSD. Seems a severe case. IMO, the OP had to be more conciliatory than he should have needed to, to work his way through the thread. He shouldn't have to prove sincerity to anyone. Nothing wrong with just being a tire kicker.

Anyway, thanks for your input. I see it up and down throughout the thread. Very level.



Dec 30, 2019 at 08:34 PM
T-O Shooter
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p.4 #20 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


1bwana1 wrote:
The first time I went to South Africa back in the 1970s, the people at customs confiscated a bunch of my books and magazines. No, not because of decency laws which were also quite strict at the time, but because of editorial content. Being from the U.S., and young at the time I was shocked that they could do this. It was my first encounter with true oppression. It would not be my last, but I am always amazed when people support such behaviour.

I would think that someone who experienced those times, in that place, would understand the wrongs of
...Show more

Another good post. I've used the "It is not trolling just because you don't agree or like it." numerous times.



Dec 30, 2019 at 08:37 PM
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