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Archive 2019 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7

  
 
T-O Shooter
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p.5 #1 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


chambeshi wrote:
There are common sense rules of protocol. It is up to the moderators to act accordingly. This includes the reliability and sincerity of posts. A recurring problem is misinformation posted with suspect motives.
Yes it is old news that the Z-AF is wanting for action, but real photographers who actually have bought and use these cameras know this very well. If a prospective buyer of a Z6 or Z7 is seeking reliable sources, it is NOT these Clickbait video channels. These sources are notorious for unreliability and worse. Here are 2 objective sources of reviews of the Z System by
...Show more

I see that you didn't absorb any of 1bwana1's comments on censorship in South Africa and learn from it. Pity. Not sure what side of the equation you were on, but from suggesting the moderators cross-reference DPR, I could hazard a decent guess.

Thank you for ignoring me on DPR. That gives me carte blanche on any replies I make to you. If you decide to post a reply, well that looks bad considering I know I'm Ignored. If I want to be certain you see a reply, I'll simply reply to a reply to you.

I call it the "childish" button over on DPR. I personally do not block anyone. Everyone has the potential to provide good information at any time or provide or need a solution to a situation they don't have / or do have the answer for.



Dec 30, 2019 at 08:46 PM
Lance B
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p.5 #2 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


1bwana1 wrote:
I had seen that video earlier. I agree Dan Watson's style is much more pleasant than Jared Polins abrasive ways.

However, when you look at content, the decisions that these two made, are very similar.

Jared Polin is also keeping his Z6 cameras to do his video work, and for many of the same reasons as Dan Watson. It sounds to me that IBIS for video is one of those reasons.

Jared switched for stills primarily because he prefered the AF of the Sony. Dan agreed the Sony is the best in this area while Nikon is probably third even after the
...Show more

yes, I posted this video because Dan had a similar view to Jared's but one which was not really polarizing and one that was more even handed. The point I am making is that Jared's video is way too over the top and attacking the messenger is obviously what will be done if it is so polarizing. I pointed out that he was making statements as though they were indisputable facts rather than pure opinion for his particular use and circumstance. Yes, he did say that it was his opinion, but the delivery seemed very far from that statement.

The lenses that Nikon had produced was a case in point. It seemed that in his view Nikon was basically completely *wrong*, in that just for his use they do not suit *him*, but that he should have seen it from the other perspective and that for most users Nikon was actually probably correct in what they released so far. Part of the reason for Nikon not having the faster lenses like the 14-24 f2.8 and the 70-200 f2.8 are probably to do with development constraints, but probably more to do with the right lenses for an intended market. I really wonder how many pro and amateur shooters are running round with 28-70 f2 glass hanging off a smallish ML camera, or an f1.2 85 compared to the multitude (bearing in mind the lower number of Nikon shooters) of Nikon Z6/7 shooters with an 85 f1.8S or whatever. How many have a full complement of Canon ML primes compared to the Z6/7 owner with a full complement of primes? Not only that, but Canon is a much larger company with much larger resources to put into a fuller range of lenses, but nothing is said of that, just that Nikon is wrong.

As I also said, the single card slot, does he really only shoot with one camera or was he using that is a gotcha moment to reiterate his original view in his original video that one card slot was an issue and need to look like he was being consistent and thus didn't make an original wrong assessment. Surely a professional shooter would have two or more cameras on the go which would negate the one card "issue" and that would also feed into the FTZ adaptor "issue" that he mentioned.

This is what I am getting at with regards to some of the hyperbolic statements. Making each issue out to be a mountain rather than the mole hill it is for Nikon's intended market.



Dec 30, 2019 at 08:54 PM
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p.5 #3 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


Lance B wrote:
The problem is, the "misses" don't affect most people anywhere near as much as he (or most others who want to lambast the Z6/7) think. It just isn't an issue for the 99+% who own the camera. If it does worry them that much, they obviously bought the wrong camera. The lambasters keep trying to harp on one or two points as if this makes the whole camera unusable when in fact it just isn't an issue at all to just about everyone who owns one. It seems as though unless a camera is top of the pile in
...Show more

I doubt it's actually true, but I find that your posts come off as aggressive and frankly fanatical. Like everything Nikon is golden and you own shares in it.

You are right - I will never own a Z6 or Z7. They miss too many marks for me. But I am not opposed to a Z6II, Z8 or Z9. I try to keep abreast of the Zee situation. I don't belong to any camp. I pointed out the screwy AF on the D800 (not left AF) before anyone else, as far as I can tell. Nikon is a supplier of product to me, and a supplier of some very good product. But I treat them as a supplier and nothing more. If they sell me something that doesn't meet expectations, someone will know about it. If I walk into Nikon Toronto and they are arrogant and condescending, which is not unlikely, I point it out.

I have no agenda. But if you tell me DSLRs are dead, the Z6/Z7 is golden, F mount lenses are garbage, you know to expect a reply back.

And I don't get it with the likes. It's licking the same fellows over and over like it's a fraternity or something.



Dec 30, 2019 at 08:56 PM
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p.5 #4 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


chambeshi wrote:
I cited those authorities to help interested researchers searching for reliable reviews of Nikjon products. Look elsewhere for reviews of other systems.... we are discussing Nikon Z here. You and I know the PL reviews are well written and above all are published incrementally. Testing a camera takes time. This is the site to get objective reviews of (most of) the Nikon system, but they also review cameras of different systems. They have a reputation to maintain.

Thom Hogan puts in the heavy lifting. He knows his products in depth, and solves challenges that he then shares [eg Nikon Z AF]
...Show more

One question - How come all the reviewer you like / recommend give favorable reviews to the Zees, but all the reviewers that aren't favorable are click-baiters, incompetent, not photographers and so on??

Odds are that at some point a reviewer you would deem bad would give a favorable review, and vice versa.



Dec 30, 2019 at 09:03 PM
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p.5 #5 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


charles.K wrote:
The issue with these click bait discussions is that it firmly resides in Nikon threads. Please take them outside to general discussions or a thread titled "Click Bait Discussion"

We as photographers choose multiple platforms and continue to love the gear we use and this thread is to facilitate and assist those using the Nikon systems.

We do NOT need to continually justify our choices to those who have not and probably never use the Nikon camera and lenses being discussed. Move on please ....


I'll leave you with a joke, that there's a takeaway in it for you.

Two women are talking.
First woman says to the second one. "I received an obscene phone call yesterday"
Second woman says "What happened?"
First woman replies "It was horrible. He kept me on the phone for an hour and a half!"



Dec 30, 2019 at 09:08 PM
bocajrs
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p.5 #6 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


Looks like TO is bringing his roadshow to fredmiranda

T-O Shooter wrote:
I'll leave you with a joke, that there's a takeaway in it for you.

Two women are talking.
First woman says to the second one. "I received an obscene phone call yesterday"
Second woman says "What happened?"
First woman replies "It was horrible. He kept me on the phone for an hour and a half!"




Dec 30, 2019 at 09:11 PM
sjms
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p.5 #7 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


1bwana1 wrote:
. Do politicians photograph differently than other people? Are they like Vampires whose reflections don't show in mirrors?

Oh wait, I missed the point, it is a chest pumping contest between you and Jared Polin.

You win, and you likely have better hair. I wonder which one of you is taller, or richer? Hmmmm....



Some do know how to smile just that certain smile.



Dec 30, 2019 at 09:15 PM
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p.5 #8 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


Max Power wrote:
True enough. The self moderation here seems more effective than heavier moderation elsewhere, I am not sure why. The person who started this thread has been drummed out of subforums over at DPR for similar behavior. So, he brings his whining about the Zees to the FX forums, soiling the bed there as well. We have been treated to about 800 updates of what he shoots, what about the Zees doesn't work for him, etc. None of us care. If there was a shut up button, I would have hit it ages ago.

I understand Bwanas point here, but
...Show more

Moderation on DPR eliminated any negative feedback from the Z forum, by blocking some of us. We were allowed back as long as we didn't criticize the Zees. Some fellows went back, I chose not to. I don't believe in censorship and my comments in the Zee forum where pretty mundane. You said subforums. Name another subforum and I'll put up a post there for you.

If the fellows from the Zee forum didn't decide to hawk their Z gear in the DSLR Fx forum there would be no issue. But you don't. My opinion 800 times is just as valid as your opinion 1000 times, in the wrong forum. The "none of us care" is foolishness. You don't care because my opinion is different from yours. There are others like you from the Zee forum.

You fit in well here with like minded people. And frankly, as I said, I'm very disappointed to find it here in the quantity it is here. Very disappointed. I was expecting a lot more like 1bwana1 and a lot less of the men at work.



Dec 30, 2019 at 09:20 PM
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p.5 #9 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


bocajrs wrote:
Looks like TO is bringing his roadshow to fredmiranda



You're not very nice. I always have supported you in hanging on to that D750.



Dec 30, 2019 at 09:22 PM
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p.5 #10 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


T-O Shooter wrote:
I doubt it's actually true, but I find that your posts come off as aggressive and frankly fanatical. Like everything Nikon is golden and you own shares in it.

You are right - I will never own a Z6 or Z7. They miss too many marks for me. But I am not opposed to a Z6II, Z8 or Z9. I try to keep abreast of the Zee situation. I don't belong to any camp. I pointed out the screwy AF on the D800 (not left AF) before anyone else, as far as I can tell. Nikon is a supplier
...Show more

Oh what a typical answer.

The reasons my answers to you are aggressive is your tone and opinions are such that aggressiveness sometimes needs to be employed. You seem to illicit that response. Funnily enough you talk about people licking the same fellows over and over like some fraternity, but that is exactly the way you are with your cohorts over on DPR FX forum. Your hypocrisy is amazing here as it is over there.

As far as Nikon fanatical and them being "golden and I must have shares in them", I react to hyperbolic and over the top criticism of Nikon and I would do the same for any brand. However, I do not peruse the other brand's forums to make sure they do not make such hyperbolic claims, I am only interested in Nikon at this point and confine myself there. Funnily enough, I owned a Sigma 35 f1.4 Art and a Tamron 25-30 f2.8 which I thought were way better than their Nikon counterparts at the time and I defended them and espoused their virtues as strongly as I would any Nikon product I own. So, I don't see the "Nikon is golden" issue there. The point is, I make valued judgements on the gear I own and thus I will reason why with strong defense regardless of brand.

I have never also said that DSLR's are dead, that the Z6/7 is golden or the F mounts are garbage. A hyperbolic rant from you similar to the Jared Polin video, no wonder you posted that here to stir up rubbish like your fraternity mate fPrime (and lickitysplit et al) over at DPR. I have always stated that the Z6/7 AF is not as good as the D850 for AF tracking but for just about everything else the Z7 is the equal or better for *my use* and yes a few minor things may be worse, but like any minor foible it is not enough to be an issue. I have always stated that the D850 is still probably the best overall FF camera you can buy just that that doesn't mean it suits me or everybody else either. Being the best at all things is not the same as being best for all people. In a way, yes, the Z7 is the perfect camera for *me* but I have always pointed out the pros and cons and one of the cons of the Z7 was always that the D850 has better AF tracking, but I can deal with that. If you read into that something different then that is a problem with your mindset and you probably need to deal with that, it is you that has the issue with interpretation, not my writing or beliefs. So, yes you do have an agenda, otherwise you wouldn't be here pushing this video.


Edited on Dec 30, 2019 at 10:59 PM · View previous versions



Dec 30, 2019 at 09:30 PM
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p.5 #11 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


Lance I know your reply before I even read it. The video is very fair and balanced. He's very fair to Nikon and the Zee. What it is not is a ringing endorsement of the Zees. Does it have to be?

I never look at a D850 review or get aggressive with anyone that might have seen one and had a negative opinion. I know what the D850 is and what it is not. I'm secure in what I've bought.

No need for you and others to treat a negative comment of the Zees as if you're a Salem witch hunter and have spotted a witch.



Dec 30, 2019 at 09:36 PM
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p.5 #12 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


T-O Shooter wrote:
I doubt it's actually true, but I find that your posts come off as aggressive and frankly fanatical. Like everything Nikon is golden and you own shares in it.


I have known Lance for a while here on FM. Yes, he is a Nikon fan, and presents his opinions with conviction. However, he has always been a gentleman, and I respect him for that. He and I disagree regularly, but I think genuinely like each other. The same goes for many others here on FM.

Who wants to discuss things only with people who agree with you. Things are learned, positions evolve, and we are entertained by all.

I don't know what your history is on other sites, but here how things are said is often as important as what is said.

I do know that if you treat your fellow members with respect, you will get it in return.

The occasional barb is just part of the fun!

As for DSLRs, I am reminded of an African story (I am sure something close to this actually happened somewhere). Africans have a unique way of looking at things, and saying things.

One day one of the foremen at the mine came running into the office. He said in an excited voice "Bwana come quickly, David has midly been eaten by a lion".

Well, I didn't really know how to take this statement. So for clarification I asked whether he was dead.

"No Bwana" he said, "he is not completely dead".

Still having no idea of the seriousness of the problem I grabbed my rifle and went with him to see David for myself.

Anyway, the point is that like David, DSLRs have been bitten. They are "not completely dead", but we still have to see what the situation actually is. It's looking bad at this point for both David, and DSLRs.




Dec 30, 2019 at 09:47 PM
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p.5 #13 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


T-O Shooter wrote:
Lance I know your reply before I even read it. The video is very fair and balanced. He's very fair to Nikon and the Zee. What it is not is a ringing endorsement of the Zees. Does it have to be?

I never look at a D850 review or get aggressive with anyone that might have seen one and had a negative opinion. I know what the D850 is and what it is not. I'm secure in what I've bought.

No need for you and others to treat a negative comment of the Zees as if you're a Salem witch
...Show more

As pretty much everyone has pointed out, it is polarizing and hyperbolic in it's delivery and that it is simply click bait. Every mole hill issue he has made out to be a mountain. The video I posted later on is far more balanced and level headed and what I have written in other posts here about Jared's view on Nikon's lens releases, IBIS, one card slot by pointing out his over the top approach. As I stated in my OP to you was that many of the issues he overly harps on about just do not affect everybody or everybody in the same way.

I am also secure in what I have purchased, but that doesn't mean that I can't express my disagreement in reviews that I see are hyperbolic and over the top. Things do need to be put into perspective so as not to unduly sway potential buyers away from what could be a great camera for them. But then you do seem to jump on people that disagree with you about the future of the DSLR or the advantages of ML so, you are not entirely the angel that you try to make out. Is the fact that people call out the death of DSLR's just being hyperbolic also? Is that not when you react and call them out? Same thing. We are both just calling out hyperbole and polarizing opinion.



Dec 30, 2019 at 10:00 PM
Lance B
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p.5 #14 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


1bwana1 wrote:
I have known Lance for a while here on FM. Yes, he is a Nikon fan, and presents his opinions with conviction. However, he has always been a gentleman, and I respect him for that. He and I disagree regularly, but I think genuinely like each other. The same goes for many others here on FM.


Thank you for your kind words 1bwana1. Yes, the feelings are mutual and yes we do not always agree, but I have the utmost respect for your opinion as you always put in a good level headed argument. Actually, I think you generally have a very good way of calming the situation when it does get a little heated!

Who wants to discuss things only with people who agree with you. Things are learned, positions evolve, and we are entertained by all.

I don't know what your history is on other sites, but here how things are said is often as important as what is said.

I do know that if you treat your fellow members with respect, you will get it in return.

The occasional barb is just part of the fun!

As for DSLRs, I am reminded of an African story (I am sure something close to this actually happened somewhere). Africans have a unique way of looking at things,
...Show more

. I like the analogy. However, in the DSLR's case, Bwana probably doesn't need the rifle.



Dec 30, 2019 at 10:09 PM
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p.5 #15 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


Lance B wrote:
. I like the analogy. However, in the DSLR's case, Bwana probably doesn't need the rifle.


OK, I will leave the rifle behind on this one, and substitute a 600mm f/4.



Dec 30, 2019 at 10:33 PM
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p.5 #16 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


I did remodeling work at his studio before he moved in, a few years back. Never personally met him, but I see him around town every so often (he kinda stands out). At the time, my friend who was running the job told me he was some sort of YouTube celeb / trust fund kid, but I looked him up out of sheer curiosity. Wasn't impressed by his work or his videos. Forgot about the whole thing up until this year, where he's now referenced regularly as someone with some sort of authority on things. Looked him up again, still not impressed, but whatever.

Small world.

sjms wrote:
is he now? rich is relative. do you know his net worth? do you know his operating costs?




Dec 30, 2019 at 11:16 PM
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p.5 #17 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


Don't take it the wrong way TO...if I had said circus show , it would have been a diff story :]

bocajrs wrote:
Looks like TO is bringing his roadshow to fredmiranda





Dec 30, 2019 at 11:19 PM
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p.5 #18 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


But that's the thing - he hasn't really made money from photography. He is YouTube savvy and probably had a generous head start with money that came from... who knows where. I'll give him credit for gaming the system, but as far as his work goes, I could name a dozen photographers in Philadelphia off the top of my head who are bringing more to the table, but who don't play the affiliate links and endorsements game, or have a million YouTube subscribers or whatever. Let's please not confuse business sense with artistic vision or mastery of the craft.

1bwana1 wrote:
Rich, and well known enough to show up on most of the celebrity net worth estimate sites. These are a bit flaky but the low range is about 1 million, and the highest estimate I saw was 57 million. The average seems to be between 5 and 10 million. I wonder how many here, or in the photography World in general, have made millions from photography? I know of some, but it is a pretty small group I am thinking.

He has bought at least two buildings in Philly, and has two full time employees doing his YouTube site.

Here is
...Show more



Dec 30, 2019 at 11:26 PM
charles.K
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p.5 #19 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


T-O Shooter wrote:
Lance I know your reply before I even read it. The video is very fair and balanced. He's very fair to Nikon and the Zee. What it is not is a ringing endorsement of the Zees. Does it have to be?

I never look at a D850 review or get aggressive with anyone that might have seen one and had a negative opinion. I know what the D850 is and what it is not. I'm secure in what I've bought.

No need for you and others to treat a negative comment of the Zees as if you're a Salem witch
...Show more

Lance is a true gentlemen and your comments border on trolling.

In fact most of us here have and continue to use multiple platforms and in this current market decline most of us are brand agnostic. You have an ongoing obsession with having to present a view which is just that a perspective, an opinion. Who cares as while most us just continue to take photos with our less than perfect Z6/Z7.



Dec 31, 2019 at 02:01 AM
Lance B
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p.5 #20 · Jared - one year in on Z6 / Z7


charles.K wrote:
Lance is a true gentlemen and your comments border on trolling.

In fact most of us here have and continue to use multiple platforms and in this current market decline most of us are brand agnostic. You have an ongoing obsession with having to present a view which is just that a perspective, an opinion. Who cares as while most us just continue to take photos with our less than perfect Z6/Z7.


Thank you for your kind words, Charles.

You are the most gentlemanly gentleman here!



Dec 31, 2019 at 02:16 AM
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