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Archive 2019 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming

  
 
GMPhotography
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p.13 #1 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


Why I’m going to keep mine for awhile it only cost me 460 dollars. That won’t hurt my gear budget. Plus I have two big shooting trips and like to have it. I shot more today but I’ve been painting and grandkids here for a sleep over.

My one concern is heavy vignetting even at F8 but I’ll post today’s take as I did not have the filter rings on.



Mar 16, 2019 at 06:01 PM
genji
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p.13 #2 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


GMPhotography wrote:
Both adapters my infinity is way before the symbol. More than any other lens I have had


Doesn't this lens comes with a screwdriver and instructions for adjusting the focus on a rangefinder camera? Given that you have the M version, I'm wondering if using this feature might enable you to address the infinity stop issue.



Mar 16, 2019 at 07:44 PM
GMPhotography
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p.13 #3 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


I will look. Great idea it’s way off


Mar 16, 2019 at 07:46 PM
genji
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p.13 #4 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


Sarpedon wrote:
Genji, you have both the C/Y and ZE version of the 28/2? As a ZE owner I've always been curious to hear what someone who owns both thinks about the differences between them. Everything I've heard has been hearsay.


Here are some links that address the differences (in case you haven't seen them):

Distagon 28mm f2 C/Y or Distagon 28mm f2 ZE/ZF (FredMiranda.com)
Review: Contax Zeiss Distagon 2.0/28 T* AEG (C/Y) (Jannik Peters at PhillipReeve.net)
Contax T* 28mm F2 Distagon Lens (John Black at PebblePlace.com)

I regard the ZE version as a superb general purpose 28mm f/2 lens, which as John Black points out, has the following advantages compared to the C/Y: "a fully automatic aperture, updated optical formula, new lens coatings optimized and full EXIF data". If I wanted to shoot in the street with a 28 attached to an A7R3, I'd choose the ZE (although now that I have a Leica M I'm more inclined to use that camera with a Biogon ZM 28/2.8).

The C/Y version, on the other hand, is for me a specialist/character lens that I only use close-up at or near wide open. Jannik Peters' summary perfectly describes why, despite owning the ZE, I hold on to the Hollywood 28:

The dreamy bokeh wide open, the field curvature which reduces the depth of field towards the corners, the good close-up performance, the great colors and the good flare resistance make this lens predestined for close-up wideangle photography with shallow depth of field. The Distagon 2/28 is an expert lens for that purpose and can create images with high plasticity and three dimensional rendering. If this is your style of photography, this lens is for you.



Mar 16, 2019 at 08:29 PM
DavidBM
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p.13 #5 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


genji wrote:
Here are some links that address the differences (in case you haven't seen them):

Distagon 28mm f2 C/Y or Distagon 28mm f2 ZE/ZF (FredMiranda.com)
Review: Contax Zeiss Distagon 2.0/28 T* AEG (C/Y) (Jannik Peters at PhillipReeve.net)
Contax T* 28mm F2 Distagon Lens (John Black at PebblePlace.com)

I regard the ZE version as a superb general purpose 28mm f/2 lens, which as John Black points out, has the following advantages compared to the C/Y: "a fully automatic aperture, updated optical formula, new lens coatings optimized and full EXIF data". If I wanted to shoot in the street with a 28 attached to an A7R3,
...Show more

I have the ZF industrial version (optically the same as ZF, ZF2 and ZE) and have used the Hollywood briefly as a loaner.
The Hollywood has a lovely low contrast feel with great subject isolation wide open if you place your subject at a good place in the curved field. But it doesn’t have modern Zeiss high contrast, to say the least, if that’s what you want. Agree completely with Genji.

And the Z* is has amazing contrast and pop, with not bad field curvature at infinity but a bit at closer distances, despite a floating element. It’s basically like a modern lens - say a Loxia - except for a bit more CA and spherochromatism at wide apertures, and slightly busy bokeh wide open in many conditions. Im hanging on to it until there is a real Loxia or equivalent.



Mar 16, 2019 at 08:59 PM
naturephoto1
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p.13 #6 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


Even though it is still an expensive alternative, I think that I will continue to use my Leica R 28mm f2.8 Elmarit V2. It is smaller and lighter than the 7Artisans, is 2 stops slower, and only has 6 aperture blades. But, it is sharp out to the corners certainly by f8 (and possibly f5.6) and continues to perform extremely well even when stopped down even more than f11 on my A7r (and I would expect on my A7rIII) cameras for landscape work. Also, it has floating elements for close focus.

If I need or want really small and light as long as it is not too warm, I will use my Minolta CLE 28mm f2.8 M-Rokkor lens (the lens weighs 5.8oz including the UV filter, Minolta Bayonet hood, and front and rear caps) for my landscape work. It does well for relatively close work even at f5.6 or f8. For longer distance landscape work, edge smearing is gone and the lens stopped down at least to f5.6 and preferably f11 if possible (if not then f8) particularly on my A7r V3 Kolari modded camera. The lens has 10 aperture blades for sunstars.

Rich



Mar 16, 2019 at 09:37 PM
GMPhotography
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p.13 #7 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


I found the adjustment. Have to wait till daytime


Mar 16, 2019 at 10:34 PM
Sarpedon
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p.13 #8 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


genji wrote:
Here are some links that address the differences (in case you haven't seen them):

Distagon 28mm f2 C/Y or Distagon 28mm f2 ZE/ZF (FredMiranda.com)
Review: Contax Zeiss Distagon 2.0/28 T* AEG (C/Y) (Jannik Peters at PhillipReeve.net)
Contax T* 28mm F2 Distagon Lens (John Black at PebblePlace.com)

I regard the ZE version as a superb general purpose 28mm f/2 lens, which as John Black points out, has the following advantages compared to the C/Y: "a fully automatic aperture, updated optical formula, new lens coatings optimized and full EXIF data". If I wanted to shoot in the street with a 28 attached to an A7R3,
...Show more

---------------------------------------------

DavidBM wrote:
I have the ZF industrial version (optically the same as ZF, ZF2 and ZE) and have used the Hollywood briefly as a loaner.
The Hollywood has a lovely low contrast feel with great subject isolation wide open if you place your subject at a good place in the curved field. But it doesn’t have modern Zeiss high contrast, to say the least, if that’s what you want. Agree completely with Genji.

And the Z* is has amazing contrast and pop, with not bad field curvature at infinity but a bit at closer distances, despite a floating element. It’s basically like a modern
...Show more

Thanks to both of you for the replies. Genji, if you ever find the time (and inclination) to do a comparison, your drinks are on me any time you come to Boston.

I get that the C/Y version has lower contrast, and, from what I've seen, a cooler color signature, but one thing still perplexes me.

It's my understanding that they both have field curvature in the same direction (the plane of focus curves away from the camera from the center), but I've always found the description of it's optical trickery by others to be confusing in that regard, and perhaps wrong? If the plane of focus bends toward the background, then, with a central subject, it follows that the background at the edges is less defocused than the background behind the subject. It's optical trickery in a way, because the background behind the subject isn't any more defocused than any other 28/2 lens, but since the edges are more in focus, it appears otherwise. That, along with excellent contrast (and aberrations outside the plane of focus), makes the subject "pop" more than would another lens with the same focal length and aperture. Have I got this wrong?



Mar 17, 2019 at 12:02 AM
DavidBM
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p.13 #9 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


Sarpedon wrote:
---------------------------------------------

Thanks to both of you for the replies. Genji, if you ever find the time (and inclination) to do a comparison, your drinks are on me any time you come to Boston.

I get that the C/Y version has lower contrast, and, from what I've seen, a cooler color signature, but one thing still perplexes me.

It's my understanding that they both have field curvature in the same direction (the plane of focus curves away from the camera from the center), but I've always found the description of it's optical trickery by others to be confusing in that regard, and perhaps
...Show more

What you say mirrors thoughts I have had but have never tested. Certainly the tests you see show it (ZE at least) curving back, which should make the edges busier at close distances. And yet someyimes it does seem to provide greater isolation. I can’t find any good examples in my archive. But I guess there are three possibilities:

(1) your good suggestion
(2) the fact that the ground and other things in the theoretical plane of focus will be OOF in the periphery, for a central subject, and that is more crucial than a slightly busier backrground.
(3) this diagrams are wrong.



Mar 17, 2019 at 04:52 AM
genji
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p.13 #10 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


Sarpedon wrote:
It's my understanding that they both have field curvature in the same direction (the plane of focus curves away from the camera from the center), but I've always found the description of it's optical trickery by others to be confusing in that regard, and perhaps wrong? If the plane of focus bends toward the background, then, with a central subject, it follows that the background at the edges is less defocused than the background behind the subject. It's optical trickery in a way, because the background behind the subject isn't any more defocused than any other 28/2 lens, but since
...Show more

No, you're having to jump through hoops to explain the effect because you have got it wrong: the field curvature actually occurs in the opposite direction to what you're suggesting, with the plane of focus curving behind the camera from the center. Jannik Peters explains it very well:

The Distagon shows a significant amount of field curvature. The plane of focus is comparable to a sphere around the camera. The extreme corners are focused significantly behind the center which will result in a greater subject isolation towards the edges (in comparison to a lens with a very flat field of view). The impression of depth of field is more shallow than the f/2 value may suggest. This property of the lens defines it’s character and is great for close-up photography with shallow depth of field since it conveys a three dimensional impression.

With a lens whose plane of focus curves away from the camera, the edges behind the focus plane are unnaturally in focus, as you say. Lots of viewers don't notice the anomaly but FM member Samuli Vahonen has written extensively about the effect and, once you've seen it, you can't unsee it.



Mar 17, 2019 at 05:51 AM
DavidBM
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p.13 #11 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


genji wrote:
No, you're having to jump through hoops to explain the effect because you have got it wrong: the field curvature actually occurs in the opposite direction to what you're suggesting, with the plane of focus curving behind the camera from the center. Jannik Peters explains it very well:

The Distagon shows a significant amount of field curvature. The plane of focus is comparable to a sphere around the camera. The extreme corners are focused significantly behind the center which will result in a greater subject isolation towards the edges (in comparison to a lens with a very flat field of view).

With a lens whose plane of focus curves away from the camera, the edges behind the focus plane are unnaturally in focus, as you say. Lots of viewers don't notice the anomaly but FM member Samuli Vahonen has written extensively about the effect and, once you've seen it, you can't unsee it.
...Show more

Now I’m confused.

Don’t you two agree (along with a Jannik and the diagrams?) that the plane of focus, or rather curved surface of focus, is further towards infinity in the periphery, so that peripheral areas at infinity will be more in focus than the infinity area behind the subject?

Then sarpedon was puzzled why this helps isolation, since there’s no extra oof effect behind the subject, and less in the periphery, compared to a flar field lens. His Explanation, and yours might both be right.

I’ve often wondered what a wide with FC *towards* the camera might look like ... it would give more oof effect in the periphery, without less behind the subject. Maybe that would isolate in a different way.


Mar 17, 2019 at 06:12 AM
genji
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p.13 #12 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


DavidBM wrote:
Now I’m confused.

Don’t you two agree (along with a Jannik and the diagrams?) that the plane of focus, or rather curved surface of focus, is further towards infinity in the periphery, so that peripheral areas at infinity will be more in focus than the infinity area behind the subject?

Then sarpedon was puzzled why this helps isolation, since there’s no extra oof effect behind the subject, and less in the periphery, compared to a flar field lens. His Explanation, and yours might both be right.

I’ve often wondered what a wide with FC *towards* the camera might look like ... it would
...Show more

But Jannik says "The plane of focus is comparable to a sphere around the camera. The extreme corners are focused significantly behind the center...". How does this square with your statement that "the plane of focus, or rather curved surface of focus, is further towards infinity in the periphery, so that peripheral areas at infinity will be more in focus than the infinity area behind the subject"? I take Jannik's statement to mean that the peripheral areas at infinity will be less in focus than the infinity area behind the subject.



Mar 17, 2019 at 06:19 AM
realVivek
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p.13 #13 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


Seems to me that you are confusing field curvature with barrel/pincushion distortions. They are very different aberrations.

DavidBM wrote:
I’ve often wondered what a wide with FC *towards* the camera might look like ... it would give more oof effect in the periphery, without less behind the subject. Maybe that would isolate in a different way.





Mar 17, 2019 at 06:24 AM
Sarpedon
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p.13 #14 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


genji wrote:
But Jannik says "The plane of focus is comparable to a sphere around the camera. The extreme corners are focused significantly behind the center...". How does this square with your statement that "the plane of focus, or rather curved surface of focus, is further towards infinity in the periphery, so that peripheral areas at infinity will be more in focus than the infinity area behind the subject"? I take Jannik's statement to mean that the peripheral areas at infinity will be less in focus than the infinity area behind the subject.


I'm not sure how to reconcile Jannik's sphere comment with the lens' plane of focus. Ming Thein, who piqued my interest in the lens, used the sphere description as well, so maybe I'm still missing something.

One thing I'm definitely sure of: the plane of focus curves away from the camera. I just tested it now (using peaking against a chart on the screen) to make sure I'm not crazy. That jives with my own in-the-field experience, samples at digloyd, and the diagram at opticallimits.

Anyways, sorry to hijack your thread Guy. Looking forward to more of your tests.




Mar 17, 2019 at 10:03 AM
GMPhotography
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p.13 #15 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


No that’s fine. No worries. I’m about to post a few more samples


Mar 17, 2019 at 10:05 AM
GMPhotography
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p.13 #16 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


Soooo that calibration adjustment just does not work like we think. Its a inside ring that would hit the rangefinder tab on a Leica. Here it does nothing. I may buy a Hawk adapter that has infinity adjustability and close focus as well.


Anyway another Vignetting test without any hood. Also I want to show a center crop at 1.4 and F2 at the end. BTW this lens is sharp



























Mar 17, 2019 at 10:46 AM
GMPhotography
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p.13 #17 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


watch this jump from 1.4 to F2 on roof tiles












Mar 17, 2019 at 10:49 AM
GMPhotography
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p.13 #18 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


Just a lot more pop or micro contrast at F2. Quite nice too


Mar 17, 2019 at 10:50 AM
GMPhotography
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p.13 #19 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


Really looking good . Nice color, nice punch to the images and renders very nicely






















Mar 17, 2019 at 11:17 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.13 #20 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


Sarpedon wrote:
I'm not sure how to reconcile Jannik's sphere comment with the lens' plane of focus. Ming Thein, who piqued my interest in the lens, used the sphere description as well, so maybe I'm still missing something.

One thing I'm definitely sure of: the plane of focus curves away from the camera. I just tested it now (using peaking against a chart on the screen) to make sure I'm not crazy. That jives with my own in-the-field experience, samples at digloyd, and the diagram at opticallimits.

Anyways, sorry to hijack your thread Guy. Looking forward to more of your tests.



One difference here might be focus distance. The instance here where field curvature are described are all quite close focus, whereas Guy's tests are mostly at fair distance.



Mar 17, 2019 at 11:24 AM
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