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Archive 2019 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming

  
 
NRKStudio
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p.18 #1 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


realVivek wrote:
Any pictures to show? Post it on the S1/R thread.


Vivek,

I did one comparison (1/160, 1.4, iso 640) but it was so noisy/dark in my kitchen I think it's hard to decipher any difference. It was of the 28 Summilux on an Sony A7r3 and the S1r.

Only thing apparent is that the Sony exhibits less noise at the same settings.

Will retest with brighter lighting. Here's a low res screen shot just for your info. I had to up exp and shadows, sharpening at default levels.







WILL BE RETESTED WITH BRIGHTER LIGHTING




Apr 15, 2019 at 10:34 AM
realVivek
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p.18 #2 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


Thank you!

Looking forward to the Lux shots in color.



Apr 15, 2019 at 11:35 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.18 #3 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


NRKStudio wrote:
Vivek,

I did one comparison (1/160, 1.4, iso 640) but it was so noisy/dark in my kitchen I think it's hard to decipher any difference. It was of the 28 Summilux on an Sony A7r3 and the S1r.

Only thing apparent is that the Sony exhibits less noise at the same settings.

Will retest with brighter lighting. Here's a low res screen shot just for your info. I had to up exp and shadows, sharpening at default levels.



If you redo this shot, I might recommend that you stay away from ISO 640 or at least test other ISOs too. It appears from the data at Bill Claff's photons to photos that the A7r III has a built in Aptina DRX correction that kicks in at ISO 640 and the Panasonic has something similar but it kicks in at ISO 800, so ISO 640 may put the A7r III at an advantage that would be misleading about performance at every other ISO.



Apr 15, 2019 at 12:29 PM
NRKStudio
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p.18 #4 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


realVivek wrote:
Thank you!

Looking forward to the Lux shots in color.


I have no idea if these comparisons demonstrate anything. I just don't have enough lighting in my house to make this work, nor do I own studio lights. I increased exposure and tried to match white balance. default sharpening, clarity, etc. these were all on a Arcaswiss P0 on a leofoto Tripod.

These are viewed at 4:1 magnification, Leica 28 Summilux adapted on an A7r3 vs. S1r, wide open and at f4, iso 320, 1/10 and 1/60, corner and center frame. I used silent shutter on both and recorded originally in RAW and RW2 (uncompressed).





f1.4, Center frame







f4, center frame







f1.4, top left frame







f4, top left frame




Apr 16, 2019 at 04:02 PM
msadat
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p.18 #5 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


i might have a bad copy of this lens, just got it based on your review and it ain't good, testing on a leica m body though. at first i though my rf was off but no, its the lens. i might try to adjust the rf on the lens and try again before returning

GMPhotography wrote:
Agree Bastian I really like this lens. It’s more my style being MF





Apr 19, 2019 at 03:36 PM
NRKStudio
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p.18 #6 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


BastianK wrote:
As I was greatly surprised by this lens I tried getting in contact with the manufacturer and actually managed to win over the product designer/CEO for a short interview which has just been published:
The Man behind the Lens: Li Qing (7artisans 28mm 1.4 FE+)

It contains some background information on the company, the adjustments for the E-mount version, the company's next lens, a 75mm f/1.25, and a few new samples from my recent trip to Venice taken with the 28mm.


Bastian,
You say the 7A 28/1.4 lens reminds you of the Zeiss 35/1.4 ZM in your Philip Reeve article review of it. What do you mean by this?

The 35/1.4 ZM is one of my favorite lenses at any focal length so I’m very curious. 28mm is now my favorite perspective, and I’m working to get the hang of the perspective as I am still very new to photography. I use the Sigma 28/1.4 E Mount, and love the file quality; and the 28 Summilux stays on my M10-p. But if the D35/1.4 ZM was recreated in 28mm, I’d be seriously tempted to list a good deal of my kit.

Thanks!



Apr 24, 2019 at 09:17 PM
BastianK
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p.18 #7 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


NRKStudio wrote:
You say the 7A 28/1.4 lens reminds you of the Zeiss 35/1.4 ZM in your Philip Reeve article review of it. What do you mean by this?

Rangefinder lens, similar size and weight, maximum aperture of f/1.4, midzone dip at wider apertures, very good across frame from f/4.0 onwards.



Apr 25, 2019 at 12:39 AM
NRKStudio
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p.18 #8 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


BastianK wrote:
Rangefinder lens, similar size and weight, maximum aperture of f/1.4, midzone dip at wider apertures, very good across frame from f/4.0 onwards.


Does it have that strong 3D look many people credit this lens with? The severe change from in focus to out of focus which gives it that special quality?

Is the rendering of oof areas similar? The d35 is sharp as a tack too...



Apr 25, 2019 at 12:50 AM
BastianK
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p.18 #9 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


NRKStudio wrote:
Does it have that strong 3D look many people credit this lens with? The severe change from in focus to out of focus which gives it that special quality?

Is the rendering of oof areas similar? The d35 is sharp as a tack too...

These are very subjective questions. Have a look at the many samples I provided to decide for yourself.

Ones from the review in full resolution: https://www.flickr.com/photos/140854680@N04/sets/72157679502950608

Some additional recent ones: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bastian_k/albums/72157704221178232



Apr 25, 2019 at 01:12 AM
NRKStudio
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p.18 #10 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


BastianK wrote:
These are very subjective questions. Have a look at the many samples I provided to decide for yourself.

Ones from the review in full resolution: https://www.flickr.com/photos/140854680@N04/sets/72157679502950608

Some additional recent ones: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bastian_k/albums/72157704221178232


Thanks, I looked through them. Helpful review too. I usually do family candid style shots so there’s a few that appear at that distance 2 meters give or take.

What about your opinion? That’s what I’m really looking for here...

I’m still pretty new to photography so it’s not easy for me to look at someone else’s photos and compare them to what I think the shots would look like with a different lens. There’s def some of that style in your photos that I see in my shots with the D35 though.



Apr 25, 2019 at 02:21 AM
BastianK
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p.18 #11 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


NRKStudio wrote:
Thanks, I looked through them. Helpful review too. I usually do family candid style shots so there’s a few that appear at that distance 2 meters give or take.

What about your opinion? That’s what I’m really looking for here...

I’m still pretty new to photography so it’s not easy for me to look at someone else’s photos and compare them to what I think the shots would look like with a different lens. There’s def some of that style in your photos that I see in my shots with the D35 though.

If you already have the Sigma Art 28mm 1.4 it will probably give you more keepers for family candid shots due to AF. So if you are not too bothered by the weight/size I would rather say stick with that one.

The bokeh of the Leica Summilux lenses I don't really like. Lots of outlining and pretty harsh towards the borders. 7a is definetly different here. ZM35 1.4 is somewhere in between: not as harsh as Summilux, less smooth than 7a.

Contrast is hard to tell without shooting them side by side.
Results may differ greatly across the focus range and frame.
The ZM probably has slightly higher, but again, I did not perform a direct comparison.



Apr 25, 2019 at 02:46 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.18 #12 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


As I had the Leica M 28 lux and Zeiss ZM 35 f/1.4 for a couple of years, and now have the 7 Artisans 28 f/1.4 (but the Leica M version--I actually bought mine from Guy so it is the lens tested earlier in this thread) let me chime in. I agree with Bastian that all three lenses are similar in several ways. All are quite sharp wide open in the center. All show a noticeable mid zone dip that to my eye in these Leica M mount versions never totally clears up but has very little effect by about f/6.3. This mid-zone dip makes rule of thirds shooting wide open less than optimal and all three lenses do better stopped down to at least f/2.8 for such compositions. None of the lenses have great bokeh, IMO, but all can have at least pretty good bokeh in some circumstances. So, you have to understand the way each lens performs in different circumstances and distances to get the best out of focus backgrounds. All three lenses have CA that can be problematic in some circumstances, so again you have to understand the way each lens performs with regard to CA to avoid problems. All three lenses have pretty strong vignetting and coma wide open, which only partially clears as you stop down.

Now let me say a bit about the differences. First, one of the obvious differences is that both the 28 lux and the ZM 35 f/1.4 have a floating element design and the 7 Artisans does not. This shows up with much better close focus performance with the two more expensive lenses with floating elements. Both of these lenses are affected by using an adapter with extension as you get a bit more CA when you do, but both are still quite good at close distances. The ZM 35 f/1.4 is especially good close up and even better than the 28 lux, IMO, but the 7 Artisans is pretty far behind both although for central compositions it does pretty well by f/2.8.

Second, with regard to contrast, IMO, the ZM 35 f/1.4 is the most contrasty and has a very distinct Zeiss type signature with quite high contrast. The 28s are still high contrast but a bit less so and pretty similar to each other.

Third, the bokeh although variable in all three lenses is quite different. The ZM 35 has in some ways the best and the worst bokeh, IMO. Up close and especially if you can avoid anything in the corners and edges I like the bokeh from the ZM 35 a lot. Typical portraits, however, with a central or rule of thirds composition means the corners and edges have bokeh that is distracting and which I just don't like. Part of this is field curvature as the edges and corners become sharp with such a composition and part of it is the what I find ugly highlights that are basically diamond shapes and prominent. Between the mid zone dip and this bokeh pattern, I found the lens pretty poor for portraits. The only solution I could find was using a more central composition and planning for a pretty big crop that cut out a fair bit from the edges and all the corners and allowed cropping to modify the composition. For me not an ideal solution at all. If I want a 45 or 50, then I would just shoot one.

The bokeh from the 28 lux was both less ideal in some situations, but more manageable in general. The 28 lux has bokeh like many modern lenses--it has difficulty with transition zones with complicated backgrounds but if you can avoid problems with such transition zones the bokeh will be at least pretty good. I never saw the problems with the corners and edges with the 28 lux that I had with the ZM 35. I also liked that there are still some residual spherical aberration wide open that softened the bokeh and covered some of the CA a bit. Still the bokeh is pretty high contrast and you will definitely get lots of cat's eyes with this lens and sometimes (but not often in my experience) some onion rings in highlights as well. I also like that with 28mm I feel like I have a bit more flexibility in cropping which made the mid zone dip less of a problem for me. I could compose a bit more centrally and go back to a rule of thirds type composition through cropping pretty easily.

I have only had the 7 Artisans for a little over a week and I haven't had much time to use it less, but it seems to me that the bokeh is different and I mostly like it. Wide open it looks to me like there is just enough uncorrected spherical aberrations to soften the bokeh while enough correction that out of focus highlights have slight outlining. This is a look I like and a lot of classic lenses had (e.g., the Leica R 80 f/1.4). Compositionally I can do much the same that I could with my 28 lux. I also don't find the edges and corners to be too problematic. I may not like it as much as I use it more, but for now I seem to like about as much as the 28 lux for portraits.

So, to summarize I think the Zeiss ZM 35 f/1.4 is a great lens for closeups and can be used well for landscapes stopped down to about f/6.3 and with a PCX filter can probably be used for landscapes at wider apertures (I have no experience with that, however). I didn't keep it, however, because it never suited me for a portrait lens and if I have a fast 35mm I want it to be a good portrait lens and for me this wasn't just about adapting it to Sony. I didn't think it was a very good portrait lens on the Leica M10 either.

The Leica M 28 lux was a wonderful all around lens with a few quirks and weaknesses and perhaps while it may not be exemplary at anything, it was good enough at pretty much everything. I would still have this lens and happily use it if it were not stolen. It is also a lens that works almost as well on a Sony A7 series body as it does on the Leica M10. Someone in this thread has this lens and is considering the 7 Artisans. Personally, I wouldn't bother as the 28 lux I think is the better lens in almost every way even if the 7 Artisans can get close to it at a tiny fraction of the cost.

That brings us to the 7 Artisans 28 f/1.4. I think this lens is an amazing value. For portraits it quite decent. Stop it down to f/8 (or even f/4 from Bastian's tests if you get the FE version) and it will be quite credible for landscapes. It won't perform well wide open for close ups, but if you stop it down it will do just fine even with extension. I would say it is over 95% as competent and the Leica M 28 f/1.4, but for a tenth the price. I am happy to have it in my arsenal and although I would prefer the 28 lux, the cost difference just doesn't make it worth it to me.



Apr 25, 2019 at 09:55 AM
NRKStudio
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p.18 #13 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


Steve Spencer wrote:
As I had the Leica M 28 lux and Zeiss ZM 35 f/1.4 for a couple of years, and now have the 7 Artisans 28 f/1.4 (but the Leica M version--I actually bought mine from Guy so it is the lens tested earlier in this thread) let me chime in. I agree with Bastian that all three lenses are similar in several ways. All are quite sharp wide open in the center. All show a noticeable mid zone dip that to my eye in these Leica M mount versions never totally clears up but has very little effect by
...Show more →

Great info man, thanks.

The D35ZM I agree is sharp as a tack close up and far on the A7r3 and M10, corners are a little soft though on the Sony and it does vignette. The severity and difference between resolution and local contrast is so serious though on the D35 it’s the highlight of the lens I believe. Leica on their new SL lenses has boasted about this difference in contrast between focused vs OOF quite a bit in their marketing material, even creating graphs and measuring the effect. It’s what they say gives a wide open shot it’s “pop“, “separation”, or dimensionality/depth. See the graph comparing the 75 SL to 75 Lux. I believe the D35 has this in spades. It’s why Zeiss engineers call this lens one of their 3 modern crowning achievements.

The 28 Lux though on the M is just plain sharp. According to my usage, reviews, and it’s MTF. I have a test comparing it on the A7r3 vs. the new Sigma 28 which according to lensrentals has a very notable mtf result. The CA is a huge pain in the ass though and one of the worst offenders in my kit.

I looked at Bastians pics and his wide open shots do have some smooth bokeh as he notes. I always thought the 28 Lux had smooth bokeh, but the 7A 28 definitely competes or betters it. Who knows if it touches the sharpness stopped down though, like you said it does not do so wide open and especially up close. You should do a side by side if you have time of those two lenses .

Thanks for the info though, I’m going to rent it as soon as lensrentals offers it.

Looks like 7A came out swinging here. Can’t wait for the 75/1.25, it’s news of its release definitely put my search of a Leica 75 Summilux on permanent hold.



Apr 26, 2019 at 07:03 AM
Samuli Vahonen
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p.18 #14 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


...and today I got message that 7Artisans has not been able to deliver 28mm lenses, so they decided to refund me and cancel the order

Any good ideas how to buy one from European Union?

Samuli


eBay vendor via message today:
Sorry for keep you waiting so long first. In this period, we called for 7artisans everyday, but they can't do as their promise. So we decide to write to you for this fact now, and refund you in full first, when they have this lens in stock, we will contact with you again, if you are still interested in this item, welcome to re-place order in the future. Sorry for any inconvenience caused, and hoping for your kindly understand.





Apr 26, 2019 at 11:11 AM
BastianK
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p.18 #15 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


Samuli Vahonen wrote:
...and today I got message that 7Artisans has not been able to deliver 28mm lenses, so they decided to refund me and cancel the order

Any good ideas how to buy one from European Union?

Samuli




This is the official store and they keep restocking: 7a 28mm 1.4 FEplus



Apr 26, 2019 at 11:27 AM
naturephoto1
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p.18 #16 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


Samuli Vahonen wrote:
...and today I got message that 7Artisans has not been able to deliver 28mm lenses, so they decided to refund me and cancel the order

Any good ideas how to buy one from European Union?

Samuli




Hi Samuli,

That is interesting as 7artisans shows 3 FE versions available on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/7artisans-28mm-F1-4-Large-Aperture-Lens-for-leica-m-mount-fe-plus-Version/173811237618?hash=item2877f502f2:g:qpIAAOSwJ~5b96ov&frcectupt=true

and 9 available for Leica M on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/7artisans-28mm-F1-4-Full-Frame-Manual-Fix-Focus-Length-Camera-Lens-For-Leica/273595083536?hash=item3fb389ab10:g:B-AAAOSwNZxcpCnr

Others are available for the Leica M mount from China and Honk Kong on eBay and this one is available from Sweden for the Leica M on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/7Artisans-28mm-F1-4-Leica-M-mount-For-Leica-M2-M3-M4-M5-M6-M7-M8-M9-M10-etc/254179589881?hash=item3b2e48bef9:g:Kl0AAOSw1hJcCCsQ

Rich



Apr 26, 2019 at 11:32 AM
markky99
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p.18 #17 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


Samuli Vahonen wrote:
..
Any good ideas how to buy one from European Union?

Samuli




I bought one in the Uk from bay seller camspluz last week, arrived earlier this week - fast turn-round and good comms in English.
.
Asked for an "fe-plus/fullframe" version. No indication on barrel, box or literature as to which version it actually is, but it does have an aperture click at f11 (reported earlier in this thread/Bastian's review?).

My copy dosn't get as sharp in the corners as Bastian's (tho this might be subjective). Good at f8, may not be noticeable at f5.6, but softer rapidly as I get wider from that point.
I would normally take landscapes at f8 anyway, so not a big isue but might look at the PCX filter down the line.
No sign of mid-field softness. I'm using it on an A7Riii.

Mark



Apr 27, 2019 at 06:05 PM
DavidBM
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p.18 #18 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


naturephoto1 wrote:
Hi Samuli,

That is interesting as 7artisans shows 3 FE versions available on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/7artisans-28mm-F1-4-Large-Aperture-Lens-for-leica-m-mount-fe-plus-Version/173811237618?hash=item2877f502f2:g:qpIAAOSwJ~5b96ov&frcectupt=true

and 9 available for Leica M on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/7artisans-28mm-F1-4-Full-Frame-Manual-Fix-Focus-Length-Camera-Lens-For-Leica/273595083536?hash=item3fb389ab10:g:B-AAAOSwNZxcpCnr

Others are available for the Leica M mount from China and Honk Kong on eBay and this one is available from Sweden for the Leica M on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/7Artisans-28mm-F1-4-Leica-M-mount-For-Leica-M2-M3-M4-M5-M6-M7-M8-M9-M10-etc/254179589881?hash=item3b2e48bef9:g:Kl0AAOSw1hJcCCsQ

Rich


Although that eBay link says some are available, delivery estimate is up until the end of June..



Apr 27, 2019 at 09:11 PM
pfoiles
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p.18 #19 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


DavidBM wrote:
Although that eBay link says some are available, delivery estimate is up until the end of June..

Yes, I ordered the FE-Plus version from 7A via Amazon in the US last weekend (April 18). While the delivery estimate was for the first week in June the shipping label was issued on Thursday and the most recent notice from DHL is that it has cleared customs and left Hong Kong. So unless it left on a boat I expect it will arrive here on the east coast of the US by May 1 or so. I think the long delivery estimates you see on eBay or Amazon are worst case estimates and more likely that you will get your order 2-3 weeks from order.



Apr 27, 2019 at 11:22 PM
DavidBM
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p.18 #20 · 7Artisians 28mm 1.4 tests coming


pfoiles wrote:
Yes, I ordered the FE-Plus version from 7A via Amazon in the US last weekend (April 18). While the delivery estimate was for the first week in June the shipping label was issued on Thursday and the most recent notice from DHL is that it has cleared customs and left Hong Kong. So unless it left on a boat I expect it will arrive here on the east coast of the US by May 1 or so. I think the long delivery estimates you see on eBay or Amazon are worst case estimates and more likely that you will get
...Show more →

Interesting! Makes me tempted - especially as I have a spare Hawks having recently sold an M lens...



Apr 28, 2019 at 01:32 AM
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