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Archive 2019 · Darkroom Printing

retrofocus
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p.2 #1 · Darkroom Printing

JohnJ wrote:
Do you spend time at APUG/Photorio? I occasionally see stuff being given away there, to good homes of course where the gear will get used. I certainly agree that EL prices are going up, no question, but there's still plenty of cheap (but good) stuff around. As I said, there's really no need for high end enlargers for folks starting out, even Meopta and similar stuff is OK depending on use and these are very cheap.

Yes, I am APUG member, but I am not using the Buy/Sell Board there (one reason is that I am traditionally staying away from very specific Buy/Sell boards because prices always tend to be on the higher side). As I said, to get stuff free is a matter of luck and being in the right location. Rule of thumb from my experience: the closer you are to a big city, the less likely you will find good stuff for free (or for decent lower prices at least). I found the best stuff in more suburban/rural areas where people had less opportunity to sell quickly and where also less people are around who are interested to buy. Patience is sometimes key when hoping for a good deal to get, too.

Jan 25, 2019 at 09:26 AM

jharter
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p.2 #2 · Darkroom Printing

A good resource for B&W film and darkroom information and gear is the Large Format Photography forum. Lots of very knowledgeable people there.

I agree that the peak time for picking up darkroom gear on the cheap has passed. I got rid of my darkroom but I had a wonderful time picking up old gear for 10 cents on the dollar or less. 8x10 variable contrast enlarger, 4x5 variable contrast enlarger etc. If you can find one thing to revolutionize your printing life: an RH Designs F Stop timer. I think they went out of business. The time is displayed in seconds, but when you turn the dial or push the button the time changes in increments of f-stops, e.g. 1/6th of a stop at a time. Younger people with only a digital background might wonder about this, but it is fantastic when you just think in stops instead of seconds. Very helpful for dodging and burning. Just a fantastic timer, the best ever made, but with a short existence after the peak of the trade. They also made a great film developing timer with temperature compensation.

Feb 02, 2019 at 01:59 AM

1joel1
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p.2 #3 · Darkroom Printing

I still have my high end Durst enlarger and darkroom gear. Like you said, it's worth ten cents on the dollar so I can't bring myself to sell. Glad you are using and enjoying.

Joel

Feb 04, 2019 at 12:21 PM

retrofocus
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p.2 #4 · Darkroom Printing

1joel1 wrote:
I still have my high end Durst enlarger and darkroom gear. Like you said, it's worth ten cents on the dollar so I can't bring myself to sell. Glad you are using and enjoying.

Joel

Not sure about Durst enlargers, but decent in-shape Beseler enlargers have quite increased in sales value in online market places. I saw prices for a good Beseler M45 in the US ranging from a few hundred dollars up to above $600 also depending on light source (condenser or color diffuser), type(s) of enlarger lens(es), and other accessory.

Feb 04, 2019 at 02:43 PM

1joel1
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p.2 #5 · Darkroom Printing

I have a Durst L1200 with color head along with other nice enlarging archival equipment. Didn't know about any increase in value, so I thank you for the tip. I used to correspond with Fred Picker at Zone VI and really learned a lot. Eventually moved on to contact printing, but I do miss the "magic" of the chemical process.

Joel

Feb 04, 2019 at 03:56 PM

Peter Figen
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p.2 #6 · Darkroom Printing

Hmmm. I have a Beseler 45 XL with both condenser and dichroic color heads. And a s-ton of filed out neg carriers. Still probably not worth selling.

Feb 04, 2019 at 04:03 PM

retrofocus
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p.2 #7 · Darkroom Printing

Peter Figen wrote:
Hmmm. I have a Beseler 45 XL with both condenser and dichroic color heads. And a s-ton of filed out neg carriers. Still probably not worth selling.

It is a bit area-dependent, but here in the tri-state area at the East US coast you could sell the enlarger for $$$. And you can check anywhere online, easels cost a lot, too - for a 11x14" you get approx. $120 used and in good condition - if you are lucky.

I haven't been directly in touch with them, but I heard of two companies which started making a business a few years back buying enlargers in the US for relatively cheap, just changing the plugin for electricity and shipping&selling them to Europe with good profit.

Analog is all coming back these days!

Feb 04, 2019 at 05:38 PM

retrofocus
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p.2 #8 · Darkroom Printing

1joel1 wrote:
I have a Durst L1200 with color head along with other nice enlarging archival equipment. Didn't know about any increase in value, so I thank you for the tip. I used to correspond with Fred Picker at Zone VI and really learned a lot. Eventually moved on to contact printing, but I do miss the "magic" of the chemical process.

Joel

As I mentioned, in general prices for darkroom stuff increased but it is more in some areas than in others from what I am seeing. It is likely higher in areas with many colleges, schools, art classes etc than in very rural places. It is about supply and demand - areas where more youngsters go back to film (like in NYC for example), I see now a couple of facilities opened which vest in darkroom stuff to teach workshops etc due to demand. I also seen it from some schools who threw out all darkroom stuff 10 years ago and now start teaching analog photography with newly installed darkroom areas.

Feb 04, 2019 at 05:46 PM

rdeloe
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p.2 #9 · Darkroom Printing

If it's optical printing you're after then there needs to be an enlarger in your future. However, there's a nice middle ground that exists now that didn't exist when I gave away a complete large format darkroom in the early 2000s. <Sigh>

I'm having great fun shooting 4x5 film again, developing in the Stearman SP 445 tank, camera scanning the negs, and then printing on the same Epson 3880 that I use for printing my digital black and white pics. I do all the film processing in the same laundry sink I use for every other basement chore. One day it's dog washing, the next day it's film washing. I load the film holders, and then unload them in the tank, in a basic change bag. One of these days I might upgrade to one of those Harrison change tents to have a bit more room.

And whoever mentioned the Large Format Photography forum is right on! It's a tremendous resource. There's a bit of overlap with FredMiranda and PhotoRio, but there are quite a few LFF denizens who only go there. You'll find traditionalists who only do optical printing, but also lots of "hybrid" folk doing version of what I'm doing.

Feb 04, 2019 at 07:14 PM

Gary Clennan
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p.2 #10 · Darkroom Printing

What are Saunders LPL enlargers like?

Feb 04, 2019 at 11:42 PM

pasblues
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p.2 #11 · Darkroom Printing

AmbientMike wrote:
I used to use a rental darkroom, I think the big thing was the wash? Make sure no one throws anything in, I think you have to start over? Of course, you can wash at home in daylight.

I'd leave it in the water and let equilibrium pull stuff out, changing the water periodically, as opposed to leaving the faucet on & using a lot of water.

Here's a rental darkroom in Toronto, might be others too:

https://gallery44.org/monthly-members-darkroom-rental

One thing I read & did was to use the next film format up lens fl i.e. 75-90mm for 35mm film. Idk how much difference...Show more →

A wash should be a flowing wash, not a static wash. Leave the water flow ON - it doesn't have to be gushing but the water needs to change out. I've never seen a wash that was static.

Feb 25, 2019 at 12:04 PM

OntheRez
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p.2 #12 · Darkroom Printing

If I have this right, you used some sort of older 6x6 camera and exotic lens (brands?), went thru a lengthly development process including developing the film, finding paper, enlarging, and finally "printing." (BTW, nice print). Then you used a digital Sony to take a pix of it, developed that, and posted it here. I think I have the process correct.

I'm not trying to be snarky or anything, but I am truly confused. I mean a woman, or man, can pursue their art/craft as they wish so long as they hurt no one, but why do it, if you end up where you started? I shot a fair amount of film over a number of years. Never had any color. Two, well three, things stand out in my memory: (1) Everytime I pushed the button, it cost money, (2) It was a long time before I got feedback, i.e., saw what happened, and (3) Working in a stinky darkroom wasn't all that much fun.

Back in grad school I had access to the university darkrooms which was nice, but still� I can remember months I'd stand there going, "Film, Ramen? Film, Ramen?" Having said all that, the one thing digital can't do is analog; dots don't make waves. In color there's so much data that the eye isn't bothered by lack of gradation, but in B&W? Actually, it's not B&W but grey and way more than 50 shades. Still, the laborous and expensive process of going back to film to return to digital just doesn't seem worth the small improvement, at least to me.

I guess the bottom line is that for you it's fun, and woe be it to me to rain on any parades, still�

Feb 25, 2019 at 01:20 PM

JohnJ
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p.2 #13 · Darkroom Printing

OntheRez wrote:
If I have this right, you used some sort of older 6x6 camera and exotic lens (brands?), went thru a lengthly development process including developing the film, finding paper, enlarging, and finally "printing." (BTW, nice print). Then you used a digital Sony to take a pix of it, developed that, and posted it here. I think I have the process correct.

I'm not trying to be snarky or anything, but I am truly confused. I mean a woman, or man, can pursue their art/craft as they wish so long as they hurt no one, but why do it, if you end...Show more →

I agree with you unless the point is to display a finished bw or colour print.

Also, Cibachrome prints have a unique look about them, though I doubt this process is even still available, but they are certainly worth the price/effort.

Feb 25, 2019 at 02:58 PM

retrofocus
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p.2 #14 · Darkroom Printing

Just an example of a darkroom print I made this past weekend. Printed from cropped 35 mm FP4+ negative on 11x14" Ilford MGIV RC DE paper, matted and framed 16x20". Beseler 45M enlarger with Wollensak 50 mm enlarger lens. Development in Dektol with selenium (1:20) toning afterwards. Cellphone photo shot of the final product (therefore not the best photo quality, but you get the idea).


	https://martinbluhm.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-3/p3306807746-5.jpg

Feb 25, 2019 at 07:35 PM

Peter Figen
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p.2 #15 · Darkroom Printing

"It is a bit area-dependent, but here in the tri-state area at the East US coast you could sell the enlarger for $$$. And you can check anywhere online, easels cost a lot, too - for a 11x14" you get approx. $120 used and in good condition - if you are lucky."

Hmmm. I've got a 16x20 frame easel, a Saunders adjustable 16x20 easel and a cool rare 11x14 Albert adjustable easel as well as 50mm 2.8, 80mm 5.6 and 135mm 5.6 El-Nikkors. Not likely to sell any of it at this point. Still, these days, I'd much rather drum scan the film, work on it in Ps and make beautiful large format Epson prints. And even though I was a very good darkroom printer, the hybrid workflow gives me far better prints than I could ever get from projection.

Feb 26, 2019 at 02:25 AM

retrofocus
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p.2 #16 · Darkroom Printing

Peter Figen wrote:
"It is a bit area-dependent, but here in the tri-state area at the East US coast you could sell the enlarger for $$$. And you can check anywhere online, easels cost a lot, too - for a 11x14" you get approx. $120 used and in good condition - if you are lucky."

Hmmm. I've got a 16x20 frame easel, a Saunders adjustable 16x20 easel and a cool rare 11x14 Albert adjustable easel as well as 50mm 2.8, 80mm 5.6 and 135mm 5.6 El-Nikkors. Not likely to sell any of it at this point. Still, these days, I'd much rather drum...Show more →

You could sell currently your easels in theory for good money online including the Nikkor enlarger lenses. The latter sell very well on ebay, too. We already discussed usage of the drum scanner which is best to achieve resolution but worst when it comes to the investment of getting one. To me the image quality of a good Epson flatbed scanner is more than sufficient for medium and large format negatives and positives. I agree that that hybrid scan is best for color prints - here I do exactly the same, I found the RA-4 darkroom process for color negative printing too cumbersome when comparing the achieved results with color inkjet prints. On the other hand, for B&W printing, I clearly prefer the darkroom print over the inkjet print every time. The B&W inkjet prints turn out very well, too but the difference is very visible compared to silver gelatin.

Feb 26, 2019 at 07:25 AM

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p.2 #17 · Darkroom Printing

Peter Figen wrote:
Hmmm. I have a Beseler 45 XL with both condenser and dichroic color heads. And a s-ton of filed out neg carriers. Still probably not worth selling.

That's a workhorse.

Feb 26, 2019 at 11:43 AM

pasblues
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p.2 #18 · Darkroom Printing

BW darkroom film processing and printing is incredibly simple. Yes, there are some choices but if you are a 35mm or even up to 2 1/4, you can have a lot of success and fun without sweating a whole lot about a bunch of different choices by just keeping things simple.

We did BW work for decades at the newspapers on deadline and you get really good at doing things fast if you keep your choices simple. Tri-X, soup it, dry it, sleeve it, make your selection(s) on a light table, load the neg in the enlarger, focus on the test paper, do a test strip, adjust your exposure, then load a sheet and soup it, wash, dry the print. You're done.

There is a learning curve, I suppose, but with an instructor who uses a KISS method, people can get up and running more quickly.

I think getting bogged down in details can be a daunting way to approach things. Tweaking little things as you go along AFTER you have made a KISS start is a better way than trying to make perfect decisions before you even start.

Feb 26, 2019 at 11:53 AM

Peter Figen
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p.2 #19 · Darkroom Printing

"We already discussed usage of the drum scanner which is best to achieve resolution but worst when it comes to the investment of getting one"

It's not just rez, but dynamic range and tonal gradation, and these days, with NONE being manufactured anymore, and repairs getting pricier and pricier, you're right - It's hard to justify. But I've been drum scanning for over twenty years now and would not give it up until both of my drum scanners stop working and can't be repaired. I'm sure that day will come but hopefully by then I won't care anymore. Probably time to order some more Kami...

Feb 26, 2019 at 03:24 PM

OntheRez
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p.2 #20 · Darkroom Printing

Every so often I get slightly wistful for "real" B&W. Like when I see a Hasselblad for $250

Then I follow a thread like this and remember just how much gear and work it takes to get a print. That calms me right down. Correct me, but are there even a dozen places to buy flim anymore, particularly something in the 6x6 format?

Feb 27, 2019 at 10:21 AM

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