nhat179 wrote:
Eye focus is the thing I wish the Z have or will have with future firmware. I feel like these feature missing have to have something to do with patent. I was very close to switch to Sony and I decided to go with the Z6 due to my current Nikon gear. I never tried a Sony system with speedlite (I use those all the time) so I can't compare the performance and I found this Z6 sync perfectly with my Nikon CLS, even my Flashpoint gear. If I have zero Nikon gear in my hand, I'll go with Sony as the system is pretty mature, but again, in my opinion these Z are for us Nikonians ...Show more →
I agree with everything you posted. The more advanced focusing aids are just one factor in choosing. Plus it is likely a temporary shortcoming in the Nikon mirrorless system so thos buying into the Z cameras will get them in a future camera.
I don't believe it is a patent issue. Sony has been very open to licensing technology. Sony licenses its lens mount for use by third party for no royalty. Nikon won't cooperate even for payment. There is already a lot of Sony technology in the Nikon cameras. I have wondered how much money Sony gets from each Nikon camera sold. It is likely significant. Nikon is not as much a competitor for Sony as it is a customer. Now, Canon is another story.
1bwana1 wrote:
I agree with everything you posted. The more advanced focusing aids are just one factor in choosing. Plus it is likely a temporary shortcoming in the Nikon mirrorless system so thos buying into the Z cameras will get them in a future camera.
I don't believe it is a patent issue. Sony has been very open to licensing technology. Sony licenses its lens mount for use by third party for no royalty. Nikon won't cooperate even for payment. There is already a lot of Sony technology in the Nikon cameras. I have wondered how much money Sony gets from each Nikon camera sold. It is likely significant. Nikon is not as much a competitor for Sony as it is a customer. Now, Canon is another story.
...Show more →
I really don't care how much of Sony technology is in Nikon cameras, but I would like to ask you how much Sony technology is in Nikon lenses.
I would like to remind you that this thread is about Z6, and all of us who purchased this camera, or planning to do it, know about Sony cameras, but for some reason we decided not to get one, including myself.
You're wasting your time constantly promoting Sony overhere.
Do you have some shares in Sony, or they pay you to promote it.
I tried Sony, and it's not for me, I'm very happy with my choice, even without famous Eye AF.
Z6 doesn't have it, but I don't need to touch colors, or skin tones.
This is the best output I've seen so far!
1bwana1 wrote:
I agree with everything you posted. The more advanced focusing aids are just one factor in choosing. Plus it is likely a temporary shortcoming in the Nikon mirrorless system so thos buying into the Z cameras will get them in a future camera.
I don't believe it is a patent issue. Sony has been very open to licensing technology. Sony licenses its lens mount for use by third party for no royalty. Nikon won't cooperate even for payment. There is already a lot of Sony technology in the Nikon cameras. I have wondered how much money Sony gets from each Nikon camera sold. It is likely significant. Nikon is not as much a competitor for Sony as it is a customer. Now, Canon is another story.
Sony with its sensor manufacturing are separate entities and there are many manufacturers using Sony sensors. These arrangements with arms length manufacturers are very common and Nikon designs to their specifications and have done for a long time. This is why the D810 was class leading at the time. Other than the sensor an inbuilt costing there are no other licencing costs. As regards to the XQD cards the cost is higher to consumers as this is Sony's inbuilt royalty. No wonder there is the move as soon as available CF Express which is open sourced and lower cost to consumers.
The implementation of eye AF is a tool and if it is important for your style the A7III/A7rIII is readily available. Having used it extensively, I most often turned it off for the lenses I used. Each to their own of course.
I am sure Nikon will implement eye AF and may implement it differently. This is already in the D850 and D750 implements a algorithm like eye AF via the OVF. I find this very useful at times and there are many threads on this. Nikon scene metering system is so unique and this is where the face recognition is part of it.
In fact all camera manufacturers have many patents and R&D with respect their technologies.
Again enough of comparisons, brand discussions as this a resource thread for Z6. Please move on
turbodude wrote:
what are you seeing that you dont like? tracking accuracy? ability to lock? initial acquisition? comparing it to a d5, is prob not the best bet, you have to remember you can buy 3 z6's with the cost of a d5. i have yet to any issues when trying to focus. and i only use continuous focus. i was shooting a friendsgiving earlier this week, and it locked focus every time, and i was using Auto AF - and locking targets and using the cursor to change detected faces. All these were with the 35 1.8S
nhat179 wrote:
Just my wild guess man cuz I don’t think Nikon isn’t aware that’s what consumers want at this point
I think it's pretty clear at this point (and with the many stellar contributions to this thread) that in capable hands, not having marketing gimmicks eye-AF isn't an issue with the Z6 (or Z7). I shot the Z7 for about a month in the studio, chasing around my nephew and nieces, in Oaxaca during dia de los muertos, and the only ding I'd have on it is low light AF compared to my D850 - which is something that all mirrorless cameras struggle with (from experience having owned the latest gen Sony, Fuji, Nikon mirrorless bodies).
Let's keep the brand bickering outside of this thread please.
Who has used a Z6 with Ai type lenses and Zeiss ZF.2 lenses? I know the adapter doesn’t have a tab for the aperure ring. I looked around but haven’t read any real world experience.
I’m a D700 with manual focus guy most of the time. I had a Sony A7 and A7ii for a while so I know what that’s like. I used mostly my F-mount lenses with a dumb adapter. You turn the aperture ring and it stops down... what you see is what you get on depth of field. There is no EXIF data for f/stop. I didn’t think lack of EXIF that would bother me, but it did. I like to look at my bokeh and the f/stop I used. I ended up selling the Sony and going back to my D700 mostly because of familar controls and muscle memory. Z6 intregues me greatly, depending on how well it works with those lenses.
I assume the Zeiss ZF.2 lenses with electronics will communicate somewhat, and I’m very curious how much, how well.
jbouchard wrote:
Who has used a Z6 with Ai type lenses and Zeiss ZF.2 lenses? I know the adapter doesn’t have a tab for the aperure ring. I looked around but haven’t read any real world experience.
I’m a D700 with manual focus guy most of the time. I had a Sony A7 and A7ii for a while so I know what that’s like. I used mostly my F-mount lenses with a dumb adapter. You turn the aperture ring and it stops down... what you see is what you get on depth of field. There is no EXIF data for f/stop. I didn’t think lack of EXIF that would bother me, but it did. I like to look at my bokeh and the f/stop I used. I ended up selling the Sony and going back to my D700 mostly because of familar controls and muscle memory. Z6 intregues me greatly, depending on how well it works with those lenses.
I assume the Zeiss ZF.2 lenses with electronics will communicate somewhat, and I’m very curious how much, how well....Show more →
sungphoto wrote:
I think it's pretty clear at this point (and with the many stellar contributions to this thread) that in capable hands, not having marketing gimmicks eye-AF isn't an issue with the Z6 (or Z7). I shot the Z7 for about a month in the studio, chasing around my nephew and nieces, in Oaxaca during dia de los muertos, and the only ding I'd have on it is low light AF compared to my D850 - which is something that all mirrorless cameras struggle with (from experience having owned the latest gen Sony, Fuji, Nikon mirrorless bodies).
Let's keep the brand bickering outside of this thread please....Show more →
sungphoto wrote:
I think it's pretty clear at this point (and with the many stellar contributions to this thread) that in capable hands, not having marketing gimmicks eye-AF isn't an issue with the Z6 (or Z7). I shot the Z7 for about a month in the studio, chasing around my nephew and nieces, in Oaxaca during dia de los muertos, and the only ding I'd have on it is low light AF compared to my D850 - which is something that all mirrorless cameras struggle with (from experience having owned the latest gen Sony, Fuji, Nikon mirrorless bodies).
Let's keep the brand bickering outside of this thread please....Show more →
I don't understand the need to try to marginalize or discredit a feature like Sony eye AF that countless photographers have acknowledged the significance of. IMO, not giving Sony the credit that they are due is a great example of "brand bickering". There are lots of examples of Sony cameras being used successfully in all types of inclement weather including rain, snow, and cold yet the Nikon weather sealing is presented by many as a big difference between the two. If we're going to marginalize eye AF then we should do the same for weather sealing and ergonomics.
RobCD wrote:
I don't understand the need to try to marginalize or discredit a feature like Sony eye AF that countless photographers have acknowledged the significance of. IMO, not giving Sony the credit that they are due is a great example of "brand bickering". There are lots of examples of Sony cameras being used successfully in all types of inclement weather including rain, snow, and cold yet the Nikon weather sealing is presented by many as a big difference between the two. If we're going to marginalize eye AF then we should do the same for weather sealing and ergonomics.
I think the point is that it's a resource / image thread about Nikon Z6. Not Sony A7III. It's pretty boring to hear "but eye af" over and over again. Maybe one day Sony will put a camera on a AI powered mini robot and you won't even have to leave your home to take photos.
RobCD wrote:
I don't understand the need to try to marginalize or discredit a feature like Sony eye AF that countless photographers have acknowledged the significance of. IMO, not giving Sony the credit that they are due is a great example of "brand bickering". There are lots of examples of Sony cameras being used successfully in all types of inclement weather including rain, snow, and cold yet the Nikon weather sealing is presented by many as a big difference between the two. If we're going to marginalize eye AF then we should do the same for weather sealing and ergonomics.
tek9 wrote:
I think the point is that it's a resource / image thread about Nikon Z6. Not Sony A7III. It's pretty boring to hear "but eye af" over and over again. Maybe one day Sony will put a camera on a AI powered mini robot and you won't even have to leave your home to take photos.
You may be right but nothing that you're saying relegates Sony eye AF to a "marketing gimmick" which is my point. If someone doesn't want to hear about it because it's a Z6 thread then I'm all for it but it doesn't justify "brand bickering"... that's the pot calling the kettle black in my opinion.
For all Sony Folks, if you want to compare Z6 with your A7 models, please start a new thread. This thread is purely intended as resource and information thread for Z existing and to be users. Please let’s not pollute this with brand fights...
Oh by the way, I ended up returning Z7 for Z6 with 24-70 and 35. In my initial tests, I am finding AF in low light slightly more responsive than Z7 in same lighting conditions.
Sagar wrote:
For all Sony Folks, if you want to compare Z6 with your A7 models, please start a new thread. This thread is purely intended as resource and information thread for Z existing and to be users. Please let’s not pollute this with brand fights...
Amen. Also.. damn this thread, I'm probably going to swap the Z7 with a Z6. The Z7 files are incredible, but it seems like overkill to have three 45mp cameras, especially when I can use the extra money towards the 35 f1.8 S, and more profotos, and health insurance, and retirement, and orthotics, etc.
Edit - lol saw your update, great minds and all that... haha. I miss my D750, and I'd get another one if I hadn't been kind of spooked with the shutter issue I had with one of the two bodies I owned (and green light of death on my other D750). I don't need 45mp for photos of my nephew and nieces and the occasional puppy.
RobCD wrote:
I don't understand the need to try to marginalize or discredit a feature like Sony eye AF that countless photographers have acknowledged the significance of. IMO, not giving Sony the credit that they are due is a great example of "brand bickering". There are lots of examples of Sony cameras being used successfully in all types of inclement weather including rain, snow, and cold yet the Nikon weather sealing is presented by many as a big difference between the two. If we're going to marginalize eye AF then we should do the same for weather sealing and ergonomics.
Hi Rob. No one is discrediting eye AF and if it is really important the A7III/A7rIII/A9 are excellent options. The A7rII was very ordinary with eye AF as was the XPro2/XT2. I am presently using algorithm base eye AF with the D850/D750 via OVF. There is many ways to achieve the eye AF and I am sure Canon/Nikon/Panasonic/Fuji/Oly have all their versions. When eye AF works it very good. Truth is the A9 eye AF at 24MP's is truly excellent and compares well with the latest DSLR's with respect to the dynamic AF performance.
Again there is no eye AF with the Z6/Z7 so it is a moot discussion and the contributions relate how to optimize the Z6 to get the best AF in different situations. We have seen already the Z6 can perform really well. To be honest I am still learning techniques to optimize the AF on my D850 more than 12 months later
My main need for the Z6 is videos and both the Z6 dynamic AF works extremely well.
Still loving the Z6 after a few days playing around. The 3D tracking mode works quite well for me, just took a bit of adjustment to learn how to activate it. I do think Nikon would be well advised to consider using the 3D-tracking implementation from in the D8xx bodies. The extra steps/different methods on the Z are a bit confusing at first.
Of course, we're all spoiled here. 3D tracking, AF-C, "eye AF". How in the world did we get along with manual focus lenses and ratcheted film advance way-back-when? Heck, my best photos (still) were taken underwater on the fully-manual Nikonos V were you had to *guess* your subject distances and framing. Couldn't even see through the lens for those photos. [Main reason the 15mm was so popular. Crazy depth of field on that lens; basically removed focus distance as a variable if you knew how to use it right.] Sorry, /rantoff.
charles.K wrote:
Hi Rob. No one is discrediting eye AF and if it is really important the A7III/A7rIII/A9 are excellent options. The A7rII was very ordinary with eye AF as was the XPro2/XT2. I am presently using algorithm base eye AF with the D850/D750 via OVF. There is many ways to achieve the eye AF and I am sure Canon/Nikon/Panasonic/Fuji/Oly have all their versions. When eye AF works it very good. Truth is the A9 eye AF at 24MP's is truly excellent and compares well with the latest DSLR's with respect to the dynamic AF performance.
Again there is no eye AF with the Z6/Z7 so it is a moot discussion and the contributions relate how to optimize the Z6 to get the best AF in different situations. We have seen already the Z6 can perform really well. To be honest I am still learning techniques to optimize the AF on my D850 more than 12 months later
My main need for the Z6 is videos and both the Z6 dynamic AF works extremely well....Show more →
Now there is a rational reasoned discussion of the issues. What many here see as brand wars are clumsy attempts at discussing technology. the Z Cameras are new mirrorless cameras, that is their main market positioning. In the past there was really only one FF digital mirrorless camera manufacturer. So, naturally that brands cameras are what the new mirrorless cameras will be benchmarked against. Because of this, references to "that other brand" will be made in any thread discussing the new mirrorless cameras.
There was a post speculating that patents were the reason that Nikon did not implement Eye AF. Discussing that subject is what brought in the other brand. Not brand bashing, but technology discussion.
I would like to hear how ""algorithm based eye AF" is done when using the D850/D750. That method may be a great way to help get the most out of the Z7/6 cameras.
