bjhurley wrote:
There's a new 50mm Sonnetar from Miyazaki as well, but I'm not tempted. I'm pretty happy with the 73, especially for portraits, despite it being a bit hard to focus.
I've had 3 Miyazaki lenses (28/4 & 24/4 Perar Super-Triplets, 135/2.4 Aporis) and I've had some mechanical troubles with 2 of them so I almost gave up on getting more of them. I've only kept the 28/4 but didn't use it in a long time. However, I've kept eying his new releases and have been tempted several times, but with the prices at around 100K yen I've skipped buying any of the new ones for the last couple of years.
There is one small camera store "GT Camera" near my home area in Ebisu that sells old cameras and lenses including rangefinder glass and the owner is very friendly & helpful. They also get some new Miyazaki lenses. I've been wanting to buy something from them since I received some help at the store before with one problematic lens, so I decided to pick up the new Sonnetar 50/1.3 Slim from them. They had just one new copy that was on display at the store window so I got that one (Black #27). The official price for these in Japan is 100000 yen + 10% tax, so 110K yen in total.
Some of my first samples with the new Sonnetar on my Sony A7C (I applied a K-100 "Beyond Film" style preset on them in C1 Pro): https://photos.app.goo.gl/6mxWgMB7hebVUtb88.
A lot of them were shot wide open. I suppose the optimal aperture for best rendering might require stopping down a little bit though. So far I'm enjoying the lens. It has the best handling of any Miyazaki lenses I've had up to now although it has the usual quirks, like the whole front part of the lens (including aperture ring) rotating while focusing. The weight is officially 123g and reported to be 143g with all the extras, which must include the hood and both caps. I measured mine to be 124g and the hood is just 5-6g, together I measured them to be 130g (without the caps). Minimum focus distance marked on the lens is 0.8m but it focuses closer than that marking and I measured around 0.7m as the minimum focus distance on my A7C.
I noticed that there's no way to get sharp results corner-to-corner even by stopping down heavily on my Sony at least (might be similar on M as well). The edges and especially the corners always get soft at infinity. This behavior seems to be similar to the original Sonnetar 50/1.1 as per Bastian's review of that lens. There are quite strong flares from various city lights when shooting in low light city scenarios.
Hard infinity is pretty much spot on for the central parts of the frame with my Rayqual adapter and I've not touched the coma adjustment setting that's also available on this lens (I've kept at a ~3m position where the red markings are aligned, which I think is also where rangefinder coupling would be optimal, not that I need it though).
A 55mm cap fits perfectly on top of the hood and I'm using a Sigma 55mm plastic cap from one of my I-series lenses as a hood cap for the Sonnetar (I use the magnetic caps on the Sigma lenses). I've kept the screw-on original Sonnetar cap in the box as it's a bit troublesome to screw it on and off.
I'm looking forward to using this lens more during the Golden Week holidays we are now having in Japan (not traveling anywhere but I'll walk around the city more than usual since there is free time from work).
If I decide to get more Miyazaki lenses, my next target might be the Apoqualia 35/1.3 II Slim. Not decided yet though.
Juha, not sure if you know (but I emailed Ballany at Camera Hunter when the 35/1.3 was announced as I was interested) and he confirmed it's the same optically (or very nearly identical) as the older 35/1.4 Apoqualia. But the ergonomics looks really horrible to me, even by MS Optical standards. So, you can like/have found the reviews and images on the 35/1.4 Apoqualia good, you will like the 35/1.3. I do believe you shoot with a stock sensor, but the 35/1.4 Apoqualia is pretty affected by a stock sony sensor as well, though I used and liked mine on stock Sony anyway. Now I use it on a NKIR modded sensor and it performs better (though even at f8, the extreme corners are still mushy at infinity). It was not a big deal for me as I shoot it mostly wide open for it's character and rendering on both sensors, not really expecting anything in terms of technical IQ.
Juha Kannisto wrote:
Some of my first samples with the new Sonnetar on my Sony A7C (I applied a K-100 "Beyond Film" style preset on them in C1 Pro): https://photos.app.goo.gl/6mxWgMB7hebVUtb88.
Thank you very much for sharing these!
I was thinking of getting one of these, as I already reviewed 1.1/50 Sonnetar and 1.0/50 ISM
and except for the super low quality JCH samples there is hardly anything to be found yet.
I do wonder now, e.g. with picture no. 6 of the tree, if the lens would perform noticeably better on a camera with thin sensor stack.
Still, going by all your samples I think I prefer the 1.0/50 ISM @ 1.4.
It is one of Miyazaki's most complex lenses and that seems to have had a favourable effect on correcting field curvature
and I didn't encounter that many issues with point light sources at night as well (the 1.0/50 has (plenty) of other/different flaws as outlined in my review of course).
PS: Juha Kannisto wrote:
If I decide to get more Miyazaki lenses, my next target might be the Apoqualia 35/1.3 II Slim. Not decided yet though.
Someone sent me samples taken on a Sony camera.
Field curvature and bokeh are absolutely horrible imho.
nehemiahphoto wrote:
Juha, not sure if you know (but I emailed Ballany at Camera Hunter when the 35/1.3 was announced as I was interested) and he confirmed it's the same optically (or very nearly identical) as the older 35/1.4 Apoqualia. But the ergonomics looks really horrible to me, even by MS Optical standards. So, you can like/have found the reviews and images on the 35/1.4 Apoqualia good, you will like the 35/1.3. I don't believe you shoot with a stock sensor, but the 35/1.4 Apoqualia is pretty affected by a stock sony sensor as well, though I used and liked mine on stock Sony anyway. Now I use it on a NKIR modded sensor and it performs better (though even at f8, the extreme corners are still mushy at infinity). It was not a big deal for me as I shoot it mostly wide open for it's character and rendering on both sensors, not really expecting anything in terms of technical IQ. ...Show more →
Thanks for the info on it being same or very nearly identical to the older 35/1.4 Apoqualia optically! I hadn't seen any real info regarding that earlier. Yes, I think the ergonomics look questionable on the new 35/1.3, especially when it comes to the aperture handling mechanism with a small pin that might be difficult to move with fingers alone (I have very short fingernails). It would be a pain if there was a need to carry some tool or a toothpick to be able to change the aperture. I suppose focusing action on the lens would be manageable. The collapsible nature of the lens might also make it mechnically fiddly if there is some play (even if it was kept at extended position all the time).
Yesterday I saw interesting Gold & Silver copies of this lens in Yahoo Japan Auctions at the normal price (110K including tax) where the seller stated that they had been modified by the manufacturer (must have been done by Miyazaki-san himself) so that they were no longer collapsible and the pins for aperture mechanism had been made longer. I think the handling might be improved a bit on such modified versions.
My cameras are unmodified, so it was another question mark regarding how bad the lens would be on stock Sony A7C and on my Sigma fp. I haven't gone through the trouble of getting any modified sensor camera so far. And especially with wider angle lenses I do like to be able to get different types of shots, including some reasonably sharp corner-to-corner shots as well when stopping down to f5.6 or at most to f8. Sounds like this Apoqualia might not be very good match for me then. I'll probably drop the idea of getting one.
BastianK wrote:
Thank you very much for sharing these!
I was thinking of getting one of these, as I already reviewed 1.1/50 Sonnetar and 1.0/50 ISM
and except for the super low quality JCH samples there is hardly anything to be found yet.
I do wonder now, e.g. with picture no. 6 of the tree, if the lens would perform noticeably better on a camera with thin sensor stack.
Still, going by all your samples I think I prefer the 1.0/50 ISM @ 1.4.
It is one of Miyazaki's most complex lenses and that seems to have had a favourable effect on correcting field curvature
and I didn't encounter that many issues with point light sources at night as well (the 1.0/50 has (plenty) of other/different flaws as outlined in my review of course).
PS:
Someone sent me samples taken on a Sony camera.
Field curvature and bokeh are absolutely horrible imho. ...Show more →
Thanks Bastian! That picture no. 6 was taken at f4 if I remember right. The tree is definitely getting softer away from the center. Would be interesting to find out how much difference there would be with a thinner stack like digital M cameras, but I haven't got any of those. I will try the lens on my Sigma fp later on as well. Sigma should have a bit thinner stack (measured at 1.3mm by Kolari). On the other hand, fp's sensor produces more vignetting and color shading towards the edges than my A7C but I think it will not be so noticeable with a 50mm lens and I can also create a color shading profile for the lens in-camera on my fp. I will share some more samples later on.
I was a bit interested in the ISM as well when I first saw it appearing in the market but it was priced considerably higher so that helped to bring my interest down. I've read your review on that as well and I do like the samples taken at f1.4 at close range. Not keen on the hard vignetting when it's stopped down though, but like this Sonnetar I guess it wouldn't be used much for infinity shots.
I think I will refrain from thinking about the Apoqualia 35/1.3 II based on your and nehemiahphoto's comments for now.
I haven't tried any of the 35s (though I've lusted after the 35/1.4 Apoqualia in the past), but in my experience with the 28/2 Apoqualia these wider Miyazaki lenses become much more acceptable on Sony in APS-C. I still use my old NEX-6 in addition to my A7iii, and the 28/2 becomes a completely different lens on the NEX-6. Obviously there's the change in focal length (roughly 40mm in APS-C), but the severe corner smearing and vignetting in full-frame disappear on an APS-C camera (or in APS-C mode on a high-resolution full-frame) while retaining all the things I like about the lens.
The NEX and the 28/2 Apoqualia make a very compact package, one that can slip easily into a coat pocket; it's my lightweight combo for travel or whenever I want a camera with me but don't want to carry a camera bag.
Juha Kannisto wrote:
I think the ergonomics look questionable on the new 35/1.3, especially when it comes to the aperture handling mechanism with a small pin that might be difficult to move with fingers alone (I have very short fingernails). It would be a pain if there was a need to carry some tool or a toothpick to be able to change the aperture.
You unfortunately indeed do need a toothpick or similar. I tend to use the plastic hood of a pen most of the time.
And in my opinion when using digital and color you need to stop down to f4 to get acceptable results. At f4 the lens is sufficiently sharp and the rendering is pleasant and pleasing.
Also, although it is a collapsible lens I probably would not recommend repeatedly testing the collapsible nature of a 73g lens...
I also just got the Sonnetar 50mm f1.3.
I agree with the screw-on cap being a pain (much more than the screw-on one of the 35mm).
And I have been shooting the 50mm wide open with much better results. Do you happen to know what the right filter size is? The website says 49mm but my 49mm ND filters do not seem to fit...
SlowDriver wrote:
You unfortunately indeed do need a toothpick or similar. I tend to use the plastic hood of a pen most of the time.
And in my opinion when using digital and color you need to stop down to f4 to get acceptable results. At f4 the lens is sufficiently sharp and the rendering is pleasant and pleasing.
Also, although it is a collapsible lens I probably would probably not recommend repeatedly testing the collapsible nature of a 73g lens...
I also just got the Sonnetar 50mm f1.3.
I agree with the screw-on cap being a pain (much more than the screw-on one of the 35mm).
And I have been shooting the 50mm wide open with much better results. Do you happen to know what the right filter size is? The website says 49mm but my 49mm ND filters do not seem to fit......Show more →
Thanks for the advice on the 35/1.3!
About the 50/1.3, I don't have/use any filters and I haven't tried any on this lens, but the paper that came with the lens has this text on the right side: Filter Size ø50. Not sure what to make of it though if 49mm filters don't actually fit...
Juha Kannisto wrote:
Thanks for the info on it being same or very nearly identical to the older 35/1.4 Apoqualia optically! I hadn't seen any real info regarding that earlier. Yes, I think the ergonomics look questionable on the new 35/1.3, especially when it comes to the aperture handling mechanism with a small pin that might be difficult to move with fingers alone (I have very short fingernails). It would be a pain if there was a need to carry some tool or a toothpick to be able to change the aperture. I suppose focusing action on the lens would be manageable. The collapsible nature of the lens might also make it mechnically fiddly if there is some play (even if it was kept at extended position all the time).
Yesterday I saw interesting Gold & Silver copies of this lens in Yahoo Japan Auctions at the normal price (110K including tax) where the seller stated that they had been modified by the manufacturer (must have been done by Miyazaki-san himself) so that they were no longer collapsible and the pins for aperture mechanism had been made longer. I think the handling might be improved a bit on such modified versions.
My cameras are unmodified, so it was another question mark regarding how bad the lens would be on stock Sony A7C and on my Sigma fp. I haven't gone through the trouble of getting any modified sensor camera so far. And especially with wider angle lenses I do like to be able to get different types of shots, including some reasonably sharp corner-to-corner shots as well when stopping down to f5.6 or at most to f8. Sounds like this Apoqualia might not be very good match for me then. I'll probably drop the idea of getting one....Show more →
No problem. I couldn’t find anything either, that’s why I asked Ballany to see how similar the two were or were not. If you’d like, I can post unprocessed files from a stock a7r2. Despite it’s numerous issues, I do enjoy the lens. But realistically, I only recommend it if you love the draw/images and don’t have any technical expectations and lax ergonomic standards (which I do in certain cases). Also, I ultimately tried and have a 35 Lux pre-asph, which I enjoy more than the Apoqualia. Though the images are quite different.
nehemiahphoto wrote:
No problem. I couldn’t find anything either, that’s why I asked Ballany to see how similar the two were or were not. If you’d like, I can post unprocessed files from a stock a7r2. Despite it’s numerous issues, I do enjoy the lens. But realistically, I only recommend it if you love the draw/images and don’t have any technical expectations and lax ergonomic standards (which I do in certain cases). Also, I ultimately tried and have a 35 Lux pre-asph, which I enjoy more than the Apoqualia. Though the images are quite different.
Sure, if you have some samples at hand with the Apoqualia 35/1.4 on a stock a7r2 it would be nice to see them. Thanks! I'll probably not go for the 35/1.3 Slim for the time being but if I get another Miyazaki lens 35mm would be the most appealing option. I'm wondering if he's planning to make any new 35mm lens with different optics in the next year or two as he's covered 50mm and 28mm much more extensively already. I've ruled out getting any of his wider angle lenses as I've already had the 28mm and 24mm Perars and the faster versions don't appeal to me much more, but a 35mm could be interesting.
...
I went out with the new Sonnetar and my Sigma fp today and shot much more samples at Kichijoji / Inokashira Park. These are all SOOC JPEGs from the fp with standard color profile and auto tone curve (strong). Everything was shot between wide open and f4. I used f2 quite much this time around: https://photos.app.goo.gl/qyehgXd8awqdoSTC8
The lens gets plenty sharp and has a lot of bite by f2 in the central areas of the frame. I'm liking it quite much so far and the handling/usability is also good enough.
All are JPEGs straight from the camera taken with various built-in Sigma color profiles, mainly Forest Green, Vivid, Teal&Orange and Tone curve set to Auto (Strong).
I've been enjoying the lens quite a lot and I'm happy with it so far. There is some quite noticeable barrel distortion and also no way to get sharp edges and corners on the Sigma either but I think it's the nature of the lens. Love the bokeh rendering and the colors & contrast.
All are JPEGs straight from the camera taken with various built-in Sigma color profiles, mainly Forest Green, Vivid, Teal&Orange and Tone curve set to Auto (Strong).
I've been enjoying the lens quite a lot and I'm happy with it so far. There is some quite noticeable barrel distortion and also no way to get sharp edges and corners on the Sigma either but I think it's the nature of the lens. Love the bokeh rendering and the colors & contrast.
Lovely rendering Juha. If I didn't have so many 50mm lenses, I would definitely try the new sonnetar. Thanks for the samples.
Wow, 125g.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Lovely rendering Juha. If I didn't have so many 50mm lenses, I would definitely try the new sonnetar. Thanks for the samples.
Wow, 125g.
Thanks Fred! Yes, it's officially 123g and mine measured at 124g (130g with the hood) Really featherweight. This seems to be my 20th 50mm lens across many different mounts. Not using many of them actively though. There are always some new exciting options appearing in this focal length but at this point I'm mainly only getting interested in special classic type rendering options that offer something different like this one and the Heliar classic 50/1.5 (that was my latest 50mm purchase prior to this one).
It's kind of amazing that Miyazaki is still designing and making new lenses; I think he's in his mid eighties now, right? I'd be happy to have even half that level of creativity and energy if I reach that age.
bjhurley wrote:
It's kind of amazing that Miyazaki is still designing and making new lenses; I think he's in his mid eighties now, right? I'd be happy to have even half that level of creativity and energy if I reach that age.
Yes, he sure keeps coming out with new lenses without breaks and seems to have endless ideas. I'm not sure what his specific age is but he had retired from his old job by the time he started MS-Optical / MS-Optics and his first lens MS-Mode 50/1.3 already came out in 2006 so I guess he must be at least around 80 if not older. Not many interviews or detailed information about him around the internet. I suppose the lens work is his passion and keeps him going
Edit: Afterwards I found one Japanese article that noted that he was born in 1940 so he should be 82 this year.
Juha Kannisto wrote:
Thanks for the advice on the 35/1.3!
Mine might need a (second) trip to Japan...
I can't get anything sharp out of it anymore (sharp already being a relative concept with MS-Optics lenses...).
Not sure what happened... Out of calibration? It is such a simple lens. It also focuses past infinity now which I don't believe it did when I got it (although I might be wrong here).
BastianK wrote:
Would love to see some samples (guessing you are using a camera with thin filter stack).
I use it on the M10-P. I don't have the ability to upload images here and I don't use DropBox, etc either.
I believe Juha already said most. I like the rendering but if corner to corner sharpness is your thing this lens is not for you. Center sharpness is good but the corners are weak even when stopped down to f8.
SlowDriver wrote:
Mine might need a (second) trip to Japan...
I can't get anything sharp out of it anymore (sharp already being a relative concept with MS-Optics lenses...).
Not sure what happened... Out of calibration? It is such a simple lens. It also focuses past infinity now which I don't believe it did when I got it (although I might be wrong here).
Ouch... Doesn't inspire confidence on the 35/1.3 Slim from mechanical reliability perspective. I hope you get it fixed OK.
I've still been eyeing those as it could theoretically make a nice pair with the 50/1.3 Slim but all the reports about the 35/1.3 imply that it's not going to work that well on Sony sensors and mechanical reliability could be a problem + I'm not very optimistic about the usability aspects with the aperture control... Fotoborse still seems to have stock of the 3 versions (Black, Silver, Gold).
Just wanted to update that I did end up buying the MS-Optics Apoqualia 35/1.3 Slim II in the end as I found a new one with a good price and wanted to use the opportunity before it disappeared. It pairs well with the Sonnetar 50/1.3 Slim which I got recently as well.
I've been shooting it with my Sony A7C a few times already and I've been enjoying the combo a lot. Wide open at close range there's quite a lot of field curvature effect where the edges and corners get sharper so shooting certain types of subjects (such as flowers / flora with complex backgrounds) at close range is tricky. Stopped down to f5.6-f8 I enjoy using the lens for cityscapes / street views at hard infinity on my Rayqual adapter. Even at those apertures the edges / corners get a bit softer on my A7C but not too much to bother me.
The lens is even lighter than advertised, I measured mine at 62g without hood or caps, and 65g with the hood. The official weight for the black version is 72g but I guess it must include the caps as well. I can also slide the aperture ring back and forth with my finger without using any sticks so usability has not been a problem so far. I've left the included screw-on lens cap in the box and I'm using a 43mm Zeiss cap on top of the hood currently, but it's a fairly loose fit and might be knocked off rather easily. A Voigtländer 43mm cap seems to stick a little bit better but I have no spare one right now. My 50/1.5 Nokton VM II has one of those. I think the shape of the hood leaves a bit too narrow space for the hood-cap to stick into. The gold and silver brass versions of the lens apparently have a bit differently shaped hoods where a 43mm cap might stick better.
Some samples with the A7C (I used a C1 Pro K-100 Beyond Film preset on these):
Really featherweight. This seems to be my 20th 50mm lens across many different mounts. Not using many of them actively though. There are always some new exciting options appearing in this focal length but at this point I'm mainly only getting interested in special classic type rendering options that offer something different like this one and the Heliar classic 50/1.5 (that was my latest 50mm purchase prior to this one).