p.26 #1 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion
John,
Sony is number 1 in FF ICL cameras, not just mirrorless. That is the market segment they targeted, and is the market segment that the subject camera competes in. That is just numbers, you don't even need to do any math.
It was announced at PhotoKina that Sony is now #1 in the World as well.
Other than that, no one knows the future. But trends can help here. You realize that Nikon's market share used to be over 50% and is now less that 25%. Sony's number used to be 0% is now over 50%. Strong trend line here. Again, no math required, just numbers.
p.26 #2 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion
I assume this is a Z series camera and lens discussion thread There is no need to continue brand wars as we as photographers can choose appropriately. Most photographers have a number of brands and we decide the bodies and lenses that suit us best including both DSLR's and MILC's. Enjoy the many choices we have now
I feel that with many "pro reviewers" the reviews become very polarised and often the details and issues are very much removed from real world photographers. The dust has settled and photographers now can decide appropriately
This thread is for photographers enjoying their Z series cameras and lenses and the ongoing brand wars become very tiring and frustrating for the many that contribute The same applies for Canon or Sony threads which become hijacked by a minority who often do not even own the gear in discussion.
p.26 #4 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion
1bwana1 wrote:
John,
Sony is number 1 in FF ICL cameras, not just mirrorless. That is the market segment they targeted, and is the market segment that the subject camera competes in. That is just numbers, you don't even need to do any math.
Other than that, no one knows the future. But trends can help here. You realize that Nikon's market share used to be over 50% and is now less that 25%. Sony's number used to be 0% is now over 50%. Strong trend line here. Again, no math required, just numbers.
I don't think you're reading that correctly.
Sony's numbers represent growth. If I sell 1 camera last year, and 7 this year, my growth is 700% ... but I still only sold 7 cameras
Similarly, if you sold 20 cameras last year, but sold only 10 this year, your growth shrunk by 50% ... but you still sold more cameras than I did
What I do know is Nikon sold more cameras than both Canon and Sony combined, to wind-out the last year. As far as who's selling what now, we'll have to wait for the final stats, as well as pay attention to *growth* percentage vs. actual units sold and percentage of the market.
Even if Sony has 90% of the market share, the fact that they can't break 1% in actual professional awards and accomplishments tells you who's buying these cameras in the main
Revisit the McDonald's argument ...
PS: Okay, no more brand war talk, this is a Nikon forum and a Nikon Z thread. Let's keep it that way
p.26 #5 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion
sungphoto wrote:
I personally am completely over this whole brand war BS. Couldn’t care less who sold more product during a single month, don’t care what some dumbass on youtube thinks, and to a certain degree I don’t really care what anyone on this forum thinks.
In the end whether you like the Z7 should come from your personal usage and how it fits to your style and needs - not what the loudest person on a forum or YouTube says.
That said I dislike when people misrepresent sales numbers to try and support their point. The only recent stats that show Sony is “dominating” is during a very specific period of retail sales - a period where no other FF mirrorless or DSLR camera released. You could quote another sales chart and say that Nikon was the best selling camera during a certain period too, like when the D850 was released. Sales does not directly equate to installed base.
In a sense the world press stats are a better indicator of installed base because it shows actual users in the field. Also keeping in mind that the world press stats are for a competition where tens if not hundreds of thousands of photographers submitted their work - so those stats are likely representative of that larger population.
You are of course correct in what you say here. I tend to view the company World as someone who buys and sells companies. That is a financial discusion not a camera discussion. I bet on the future of companies so these trend line numbers are real to me.
Installed base is not even a contest, Nikon/Canon are huge leaders in that area.
p.26 #6 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion
The big question is, how soon will Tamron and Sigma breake into Z mount.
There is a rumor, Tamron is going to built 100-400mm for Sony E mount.
I would be all over a budget tele zoom like that to pair with Z6.
p.26 #7 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion
Now that high school winter sports seasons have begun, I had rented a Z7 and adapter to see if it could handle some hockey over this weekend. But after the Z7 bombed out in the DPReview focus tests I canceled the order. It just isn't ready for prime time, so I'll wait until the Z6 is available. I'm more interested in that body, any who.
p.26 #8 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion
henry albert wrote:
Now that high school winter sports seasons have begun, I had rented a Z7 and adapter to see if it could handle some hockey over this weekend. But after the Z7 bombed out in the DPReview focus tests I canceled the order. It just isn't ready for prime time, so I'll wait until the Z6 is available. I'm more interested in that body, any who.
-
Do you think Z6 will focus any better? Somehow I have my doubts. Keeping my preorder in for now.
p.26 #10 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion
I wouldn’t put my money on a dpreview review. They are generally very biased against Nikon. Several
People here and YouTube have proven better results.
p.26 #11 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion
Agreed. I’ve been shooting the z7 quite a bit the last few weeks and I’d say the autofocus is about on par with the A7rii or Fuji xt2. D850 is still better in certain cases and the Z7 can do things that the D850 can’t. In terms of ergonomics, EVF, controls, color/skintones, it is the best full frame mirrorless camera right now in my opinion having owned pretty much all of them as well as demoing the new EOS R.
People need to give these youtube and DPR idiots a large grain of salt, and just try it out themselves.
Steve Beck wrote:
I wouldn’t put my money on a dpreview review. They are generally very biased against Nikon. Several
People here and YouTube have proven better results.
p.26 #12 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion
Steve Beck wrote:
I wouldn’t put my money on a dpreview review. They are generally very biased against Nikon. Several
People here and YouTube have proven better results.
If I may quote The Dude, "That's like, your opinion, man." I haven't found a single individual, either here or on You Tube or at DPReview, who has put the Z7 focus system through a serious stress test. I don't care if it can track a toddler or keep up with kid soccer or stay with some guy weaving slowly on his bicycle. I want to know how it performs when the going gets tough.
p.26 #13 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion
@henry albert... have you read Brad Hill's comments.. here is the link: http://www.naturalart.ca/voice/blog.html
He shoots a D5, D850, D500 and now Z7. He as been testing the AF system and seems to think that the Z will replace his D850.
However... his AF test has been with a dog running to him. This may be an easier task for the AF than a hockey player. Hockey can be quite a scramble with erratic movement and multiple players crossing a plane of focus. I find it to be one of the hardest sports to photograph because of the tight quarter and quick shifts in speed and direction. Given this, I wonder if anything short of a D5/1Dxii (or Sony A9) would struggle with tracking.
p.26 #14 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion
henry albert wrote:
If I may quote The Dude, "That's like, your opinion, man." I haven't found a single individual, either here or on You Tube or at DPReview, who has put the Z7 focus system through a serious stress test. I don't care if it can track a toddler or keep up with kid soccer or stay with some guy weaving slowly on his bicycle. I want to know how it performs when the going gets tough.
p.26 #15 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion
OwlsEyes wrote:
@henry albert@... have you read Brad Hill's comments.. here is the link: http://www.naturalart.ca/voice/blog.html
He shoots a D5, D850, D500 and now Z7. He as been testing the AF system and seems to think that the Z will replace his D850.
However... his AF test has been with a dog running to him. This may be an easier task for the AF than a hockey player. Hockey can be quite a scramble with erratic movement and multiple players crossing a plane of focus. I find it to be one of the hardest sports to photograph because of the tight quarter and quick shifts in speed and direction. Given this, I wonder if anything short of a D5/1Dxii (or Sony A9) would struggle with tracking.
No, I haven't. I'll go there forthwith and see what he has to say. Always put a lot of stock in his opinions. Doesn't he usually put in lot of real world shooting in addition to his staged tests?
I'll be over in your neck of the woods tomorrow night at the Stillwater dome. Girls hockey starts this weekend. I don't usually shoot many girls games, but it's always nice to be at the rink again and maybe shake off a little rust.
p.26 #16 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion
henry albert wrote:
No, I haven't. I'll go there forthwith and see what he has to say. Always put a lot of stock in his opinions. Doesn't he usually put in lot of real world shooting in addition to his staged tests?
I'll be over in your neck of the woods tomorrow night at the Stillwater dome. Girls hockey starts this weekend. I don't usually shoot many girls games, but it's always nice to be at the rink again and maybe shake off a little rust.
If I am correct, you normally follow Hastings ( )... I teach High School Bio in Forest Lake... we should have a good girls squad this year. Maybe we'll run into each other one of these days.
As for Brad, you are correct. He really tortures the gear to determine the best way to maximize output and find its limits. Having on a workshop throughout coastal BC with him, it is fair to claim that he is forever searching for the camera and lens combo that can handle unpredictable movement in low contrast and subdued light.
As for me, I am really curious about the Z6... I'm not into cropping, and think that the Z7's resolution would be lost on me. I want to shoot ISO 3200 w/ as little noise as possible bc I am partial to sunrise wildlife pursuits.
p.26 #17 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion
sungphoto wrote:
Agreed. I’ve been shooting the z7 quite a bit the last few weeks and I’d say the autofocus is about on par with the A7rii or Fuji xt2.
The A7rII is a 3+ year old camera and Sony has at least 3 cameras that smoke the A7rII AF so I'm not sure you and DPR aren't agreeing here.
p.26 #18 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion
RobCD wrote:
The A7rII is a 3+ year old camera and Sony has at least 3 cameras that smoke the A7rII AF so I'm not sure you and DPR aren't agreeing here.
I suppose it depends on how you define "smoke", but I would disagree that the latest mark 3 Sonys are a massive performance difference from the A7rii and Z7 in terms of AF. Yes, for mirrorless cameras, specifically in AF-C, the latest sony bodies are better - but I personally prefer the D850 over all of them for AF-C performance, and performance in AF-S on the Z7 is about the same as the latest Sonys. I've owned all of them, so can confirm this for the type of photos I take - which is primarily commercial/advertising and portraiture.
p.26 #19 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion
sungphoto wrote:
I suppose it depends on how you define "smoke", but I would disagree that the latest mark 3 Sonys are a massive performance difference from the A7rii and Z7 in terms of AF.
And I might suggest that the definition "smoke" depends heavily on what State you live in . .
p.26 #20 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion
Not sure if anyone was curious...but tested late last night around the house with the Z7, 1.4TCIII, and 500/5.6 as I havent been paying attention for the last couple of times I was using this combo, the focus area is covered from edge to edge on the Z7 at f8. Unlike DSLR, you would be limited to the center cross points AF points. I'll test more this weekend with this combo.
There is no need to continue brand wars as we as photographers can choose appropriately. Most photographers have a number of brands and we decide the bodies and lenses that suit us best including both DSLR's and MILC's. Enjoy the many choices we have now 
)... I teach High School Bio in Forest Lake... we should have a good girls squad this year. Maybe we'll run into each other one of these days.