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Archive 2018 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion

  
 
ahaug
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p.22 #1 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


Gary Irwin wrote:
XQD?


No, it was an sony sd card. I'm still considering using a z6 on one shoulder and the d750 on the other. I'm also considering the big move to the sony a7iii which is everything that I was hoping the the z6 would be minus bad build and ergonomics.




Oct 24, 2018 at 05:12 PM
sjms
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p.22 #2 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


Well, in the end, one thing that will not be an issue with these bodies is the “shutter count” factor.


Oct 24, 2018 at 05:33 PM
Smiert Spionam
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p.22 #3 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


Yeah, I'm struggling with this, too.

I haven't rotated in any new bodies in ages, and I'm due -- and I've long used the crop-frame Sonys as second/travel cameras. The Z6/7 looks like the platform I've been waiting for, but the lack of compact affordable primes and the second card slot for shooting events is a bummer. I've been shooting Nikon for 25+ years and they still feel the most comfortable to me, but the A7(r)iii seems like a much more fully realized camera, and it also has a better lens system. I know Nikon will develop more options, but $850 for a fairly bulky 35/1.8 doesn't fill me with a whole lot of confidence that they'll soon match Sony's 28/2 and 85/1.8.

Dunno.



Oct 24, 2018 at 07:44 PM
1bwana1
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p.22 #4 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


Ok, here we go. Watch with an open mind, and don't threaten the poster. This is after all a Nikon thread, and most of this video is about Nikon. So, it is relevant to this thread even if you don't agree with the content.

In many ways, it does reflect my experience with Nikons entrance into FF mirrorless.

Forgetting the brand stuff, it is also interesting look into a powerful disruptive technology that mirrorless is. Being in businesses, and a principle in Tech Angel investing, this kind of stuff is especially interesting to me.



Yes, there is a click bait component I am sure.

Hate away.....



Oct 24, 2018 at 07:56 PM
suteetat
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p.22 #5 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


Hmmm... I wonder about dpreview most recent article on what Nikon could do to improve Z7.

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/2670904610/five-ways-nikon-could-improve-the-z7

They seemes to really like Nikon's 3D focusing and complained about this in just about every Z7 articles. I think I ever used 3D focusing only in conjunction with face detection on D850 once in a while so that's not such a big deal for me.

What I really wonder though is about low light focus ability. Dpreview claim that comparing to its competitor (I assume A7r iii), Z7 falls behind by 2-4 stops in certain condition!
https://www.dpreview.com/articles/2670904610/five-ways-nikon-could-improve-the-z7?slide=3

This is not my experience at all. When I first got Z7, I used it with ZTF adapter, Sigma 50/1.4 side by side with A7r iii and Sony Zeiss 50/1.4 and if anything, Sony was hunting more than Z7 and felt a tad slower. This was all in single shot mode with AF-S, single point focus.

I also never had face detection on Z7 focus on non human object. Sure if it cannot find a face, it would revert back to its auto focus mode and do its thing. I have been rather impressed with face detection on Z7 actually.

Almost feels like we are using different camera here.



Oct 24, 2018 at 08:05 PM
charles.K
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p.22 #6 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


1bwana1 wrote:
Ok, here we go. Watch with an open mind, and don't threaten the poster. This is after all a Nikon thread, and most of this video is about Nikon. So, it is relevant to this thread even if you don't agree with the content.

In many ways, it does reflect my experience with Nikons entrance into FF mirrorless.

Forgetting the brand stuff, it is also interesting look into a powerful disruptive technology that mirrorless is. Being in businesses, and a principle in Tech Angel investing, this kind of stuff is especially interesting to me.

Yes, there is a click bait component I am
...Show more

Steve, you have your thread within the Sony forum discussing your conversion to Sony from Nikon appropriately. You do not have a Z7 and continue to add click bait into a thread which is intent on inflaming rather contributing. As mentioned before I am brand agnostic and still contributing to the Sony threads with photos. I would not attempt to add links to the Sony/Fuji/Canon threads unless I felt it was an adding constructively to the thread

Edited on Oct 24, 2018 at 10:04 PM · View previous versions



Oct 24, 2018 at 08:13 PM
1bwana1
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p.22 #7 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


On this one I disagree. This is not about Sony, nor did I even bring up my test conversion to Sony. It is a discussion of the mirrorless cameras, which the Z7 is one, and the Z7 highlighted in the video. You just don't agree with their point of view.

In fact, the strongest endorsement of any camera in this video was for the Nikon D850. There is absolutely no case to be made that this video should be restricted to the Sony forum.

In this case we will just have to have a gentlemanly disagreement.




Oct 24, 2018 at 08:28 PM
cvrle59
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p.22 #8 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


charles.K wrote:
Steve, you have your thread within the Sony forum discussing your conversion to Sony from Nikon appropriately. You do not have a Z7 and continue to add click bait into a thread which is intent on contributing rather inflaming. As mentioned before I am brand agnostic and still contributing to the Sony threads with photos. I would not attempt to add links to the Sony/Fuji/Canon threads unless I felt it was an adding constructively to the thread


I used to love this Forum, and I learned a lot, but I'm coming here with less and less enthusiasm.
Some people just can't live with the fact that some other people do not like Sony cameras, beside the point that they're excellent tools, like any other on the current market.



Oct 24, 2018 at 08:43 PM
cvrle59
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p.22 #9 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


1bwana1 wrote:
Ok, here we go. Watch with an open mind, and don't threaten the poster. This is after all a Nikon thread, and most of this video is about Nikon. So, it is relevant to this thread even if you don't agree with the content.

In many ways, it does reflect my experience with Nikons entrance into FF mirrorless.

Forgetting the brand stuff, it is also interesting look into a powerful disruptive technology that mirrorless is. Being in businesses, and a principle in Tech Angel investing, this kind of stuff is especially interesting to me.

Yes, there is a click bait component I am
...Show more

What's the value in this video, typical Northrup click-bait story for newbies and those who don't have nothing else to do...so let's kill some time.
You have serious problem with your conversion, and you're trying to convince yourself and everyone else, that you've done a good thing, or what?
We don't have problem to understand, that you did. Please, don't try to prove that over and over, enjoy your new camera, we know where we can find A7III and A7RIII, if we really want.
I can say for myself, I don't, so if it happens that I don't like Z6, I'll get an X-T3, simple as that, it's a nicer camera than any Sony.




Oct 24, 2018 at 09:03 PM
1bwana1
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p.22 #10 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


The video I posted was not about the Sony, it was about how the move to mirrorless cameras is impacting companies, and markets. I purposely never referenced Sony in my post, in an effort to avoid the accusations you are making. I also made an effort to point out the broader issues raised by the video not the brands.

Please feel free to criticize the Northrup's, their opinions, and motivations. Feel free to express your dislike for some brands, and support for others.

I will feel free to post and comment on Nikon cameras, in the Nikon forums, where I have been posting for years. If owning a Nikon is a requirement, I still qualify, as I have more Nikon cameras, lenses and equipment than I have Sony.

As we discussed earlier, I will also continue to not advocate for Sony here in order to lower the likelihood of offending my fellow FM Members. My post of the video above is completely in line with this position, and I stand behind it.

Steve



Oct 24, 2018 at 09:49 PM
1bwana1
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p.22 #11 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


charles.K wrote:
Steve, you have your thread within the Sony forum discussing your conversion to Sony from Nikon appropriately. You do not have a Z7 and continue to add click bait into a thread which is intent on contributing rather inflaming. As mentioned before I am brand agnostic and still contributing to the Sony threads with photos. I would not attempt to add links to the Sony/Fuji/Canon threads unless I felt it was an adding constructively to the thread


I am actually brand agnostic as well. If anything, I am Nikon fan and have been for many years. I did not mention Sony in my post. As you suggested, I will keep my Sony posts to the Sony forum as I do not want to antagonize my fellow members whose posts I enjoy. Look back, you will see that I have posted positive videos as well as made positive comments. I added no links to other threads ever, don't even know how.

Let's move on to discussing things about the Z7, positive and negative, not what I am doing with my experimentation with mirrorless cameras, or my posts in other threads.






Oct 24, 2018 at 09:59 PM
charles.K
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p.22 #12 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


1bwana1 wrote:
I am actually brand agnostic as well. If anything, I am Nikon fan and have been for many years. I did not mention Sony in my post. As you suggested, I will keep my Sony posts to the Sony forum as I do not want to antagonize my fellow members whose posts I enjoy. Look back, you will see that I have posted positive videos as well as made positive comments. I added no links to other threads ever, don't even know how.

Let's move on to discussing things about the Z7, positive and negative, not what I am doing with
...Show more


Steve, as you already mentioned in your post above, "Yes, there is a click bait component to it I am sure..." If it is not contributing to the thread facilitating to those who own the Z7 why add it

I am thankful to the likes of Michael @zhanghue for his contributions of actually testing the Z7 with alternative lenses. There has been a lot of field testing and evaluations and discussing how to work with the Z7

Edited on Oct 24, 2018 at 10:12 PM · View previous versions



Oct 24, 2018 at 10:08 PM
1bwana1
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p.22 #13 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


No problem cvrle59, allergies can be tough. You should see what happens to my Grandson when he gets near anything to do with peanuts. Next time I post something from the Northrups I will include a link to an EpiPen. !



I agree with you about Nasim over at PhotographyLife. First rate guy, first rate site, great balanced information. I am anxious to see what he has to say on the Z7 as well.

Steve



Oct 24, 2018 at 10:22 PM
1bwana1
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p.22 #14 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


Charles,
I thought the Z7 resource thread was reserved for things that help people use the Z7, and this thread was a more general discussion. That's why I posted here. Trying hard to be a good dog...



Oct 24, 2018 at 10:25 PM
LeifG
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p.22 #15 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


I have wondered what is going on with dpreview and Nikon. Have they had a falling out? They've posted several negative headlines for the Z7 - about poor AF and banding - which seem to be misleading as others disagree whereas the headlines for the Canon R camera have not been negative despite some quite strange aspects of the camera's spec. That said, I prefer reviews by photographers rather than software engineers and the like.


Oct 25, 2018 at 02:09 AM
cvrle59
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p.22 #16 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


1bwana1 wrote:
No problem cvrle59, allergies can be tough. You should see what happens to my Grandson when he gets near anything to do with peanuts. Next time I post something from the Northrups I will include a link to an EpiPen. !

I agree with you about Nasim over at PhotographyLife. First rate guy, first rate site, great balanced information. I am anxious to see what he has to say on the Z7 as well.

Steve


I certainly appreciate your sense of humor, I already mentioned it earlier.
In the other hand, I honestly don't mind you're posting here, but some of those videos are completely useless, IMO.
To be clear, I trust LenceB (I'm still dreaming to create such work) 3x more than to Northrups, I see his work regularly here, vs Northrups, who are professional reviewers, who are paid but number of clicks,
so they will do anything to make number of clicks and number of subscribers bigger and bigger. Not just LenceB, there are other people here, who already tasted Z7 in real world of photography.
Can you point somewhere, so I can see Northrup's work done with Z7, please, I probably missed something.
Thanks
George



Oct 25, 2018 at 07:31 AM
ilkka_nissila
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p.22 #17 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


LeifG wrote:
I have wondered what is going on with dpreview and Nikon. Have they had a falling out? They've posted several negative headlines for the Z7 - about poor AF and banding - which seem to be misleading as others disagree whereas the headlines for the Canon R camera have not been negative despite some quite strange aspects of the camera's spec. That said, I prefer reviews by photographers rather than software engineers and the like.


Yeah, it is odd that they would choose such headlines. There is of course the click-bait aspect to it.

Personally when I tried the Z7 with the 35/1.8 I felt its AF (using single point) was just about perfect, silent, fast, and accurate. From what I've read and heard from users is that larger single point can help with low light sensitivity and also AF with FTZ adapter and F mount lenses, and that dynamic is also good. That's really all I need to start with.

Dpreview staff appear to regard automatic recognition and tracking of subjects as they move across the frame as the most important thing in autofocus, and +6EV pushes the most important image quality characteristic.

While I sometimes use these autofocus features in my DSLRs, I don't find that they give the best control and accuracy over focus. 3D tracking can slip from the subject over time and if the subject turn their face away and return, or if someone crosses the line of sight, the subject can be lost altogether. This makes it of limited use to me, no matter what dpreview say about its excellence I would never use it in critical situations, it is a "for play" feature. Auto area AF is sometimes useful to me but the precision of focus is not as good as when using e.g. single point, group-area, or 9-point dynamic area. I understand that these features have applications where they work well but nonetheless I don't think I do my best work using such approaches.

Therefore my impressions of the Z7 AF are based on what I would deem as the most important AF area modes which are single point (with or without extension in size) and dynamic-area. I would not think about auto-area AF in making a purchase decision because I'm not interested in giving up control to achieve a more casual and point-and-shoot like experience.

Regarding the dynamic range, I think the image quality of even the best cameras shows clear degradation in 3-4 stop pushes and it is probably better to start from two exposures in such situations rather than go for an extreme push. It is nice to have the dynamic range of the D850 but I doubt I would run into a situation where I'd notice the difference to Z7.



Oct 25, 2018 at 09:59 AM
1bwana1
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p.22 #18 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


George,

I took a moment to look at Tony Northrup's on-line portfolio. I was not impressed. I agree that Lance B. and and many others on FM post much better images.

Still, Northrup has over 1 million subscribers, and is influential enough that the major camera brands pay lots of money (in expenses, not to pay him) to invite him to their events. So, his opinion matters to the larger industry. The Northrups have been long time supporters of Nikon, and have consistently said that the Nikon D850 is the best DSLR ever made. I agree with that statement. He just has a less favorable view of the Z7. He is not unique in that.

To me, getting paid by 'Click Bait" means that they use controversial headlines to attract viewers. It does not mean that they give opinions that they don't believe in. In fact, in a click bait World they make their money by saying good things about a product that gets people to click on a link on their website for a product and buy it. This is called an affiliate link agreement. This is exactly the same at PhotographyLife. I don't think the Northrups are going to make much money by giving a negative review of the Z7. In fact the opposite is true.

Others here are now complaining that DPReview must all of the sudden be biased against Nikon and had a "falling out" with them because they find almost exactly the same problems with it that the Northrups do.

Thom Hogan, who is a very big Nikon follower has also found the same issues.

I invested significant time and money with the Z7 and found exactly the same issues. This was prior to these reviews coming out. So, in this instance I end up agreeing with these reviewers.

The reviews about the Z7's problems with continuous AF are pretty widespread. AF in some other modes, is superb as so well pointed out by ilkka_nissila above. Hopefully Nikon will find a fix for this camera, before the release of the Z6, or in a future professional targeted camera. One of the worst things that could happen to photography would be Nikon damaged in any way, financially, or in reputation.

I remain an Nikon fan.



Oct 25, 2018 at 10:17 AM
eSchwab
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p.22 #19 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


I really like nikon cameras and equipment. However I don't ever think I've seen them make major improvements or add features with a firmware update the way that fuji does. Basically you can expect a Nikon camera to be what it is when you buy it.


Oct 25, 2018 at 11:09 AM
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p.22 #20 · Official Z Series Camera and Lens Discussion


I shoot landscapes, some wildlife and people.

The Z7 with 24-70S is a landscape shooter's dream come true. Coming from a D-750, I have improved IQ in a smaller and lighter camera and lens. I'm hoping the new 14-30 F4 will be a 77mm filter thread (pretty sure!).

Really enjoying my 70-200 f4 AF-S lens with the adapter also.

Oh, and all my 20+ Ai-S lenses work better with this camera than they ever did on my D-750, in spite of not having the full aperture readout. The IBIS and peak focusing more than make up for this. I'm still using all my old batteries and I'm getting the same battery life as before as far as I can tell (more info this winter).

The only problems I am having:

1. I kept hitting the OFF switch during my first two weeks of shooting. Doing that less and less, but it's a lot closer to the front dial than on the D-750.

2. Would like to be able to turn off the touch screen shutter release while leaving the touch screen on for focusing. Can't figure this one out...prolly impossible to do it!

Oh, and I enjoy the Northrups very much. I totally agree with much of what the Northrups say, including the Nikon press stuff. It is not a "mirrorless D-850." It's a completely different system, heading in a completely different direction - gimbal-light, high IQ, movies, great ergonomics. But the Northrups cover a lot and can't get it perfectly right, which they surely don't with the Z7, a camera they have hardly used. For example, the battery life is arguably the best of any FF mirrorless. Neither are the S lenses "cheap kit lenses," they just represent Nikon's new direction with the Z series to go smaller and lighter with f4 lenses (the 1.8 primes aren't small because they use the new 55mm mount), but they are a lot smaller and lighter than Canon's FF mirrorless lenses so far). The S lenses have the best optical quality Nikon has ever offered, and the build quality, though lightweight (as they should be), is quite good, with plenty of metal (except the rubber ring and barrel extension areas - like all their pro glass) and very high quality fully-spec'd glass. The reason the focus feels funny is that it's the new electronic wire focus tech which is revolutionizing movie making, and opens up whole new worlds of ergonomic controls, not because it's "cheap." The new button configurations, though on a tiny body, are in some ways better - especially the U1, U2 and U3 buttons.

The way to view all the new cameras is with a forward view, because they are not designed to do the same thing the dslrs do, nor do they do those things the same way. They do some things better, and some worse, especially the Nikons! If you aren't invested in Nikon, consider the SONYs and Canon. If you are interested in crop-sensor, go Fujifilm. But if you have lotrs of Nikon equipment, (except maybe D lenses), the Z7 is more than fine, unless you shoot wildlife or sports exclusively. Then maybe go with SONY, CANON or FUJIFILM.

Edited on Oct 25, 2018 at 12:27 PM · View previous versions



Oct 25, 2018 at 11:36 AM
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