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Archive 2018 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread

  
 
zhangyue
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p.6 #1 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


pookipichu wrote:
Do you all think we'll see lens adapters with EOS R style drop in filter slot?

Nobody but Nikon can answer this question. However, drop in filter is similar as adding glass on top of sensor, this will most likely degrade WA lens performance. WA without filter thread is the main reason you want drop in filter so I am not sure how effective this approach will be.

Their future 14-30mm f4 will have a filter ring. I look forward to see that lens coming.

Here is by far the most thorough review i have read about Z7. Unfortunately it is from Taiwan, not in english.
https://www.mobile01.com/newsdetail/26796/nikon-z7

The review is very detailed and quite positive. Highly recommended! I will post summary once I have some time later.



Sep 10, 2018 at 06:39 PM
zhangyue
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p.6 #2 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


The first sample of M to Z adapter is already available.

https://m.weibo.cn/status/GyJpYnJzv?type=repost&jumpfrom=weibocom#_rnd1536635986218



Sep 10, 2018 at 10:38 PM
joakim
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p.6 #3 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


zhangyue wrote:
Nobody but Nikon can answer this question. However, drop in filter is similar as adding glass on top of sensor, this will most likely degrade WA lens performance. WA without filter thread is the main reason you want drop in filter so I am not sure how effective this approach will be.

Their future 14-30mm f4 will have a filter ring. I look forward to see that lens coming.

Here is by far the most thorough review i have read about Z7. Unfortunately it is from Taiwan, not in english.
https://www.mobile01.com/newsdetail/26796/nikon-z7

The review is very detailed and quite positive. Highly recommended!
...Show more

nikonrumors.com has some info about the review and a Word document with a translated version of the review.Nikon rumors



Sep 11, 2018 at 01:43 AM
sebboh
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p.6 #4 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


zhangyue wrote:
He also talked about EVF during night shooting here.
Overall, I found that the EVF was the only challenge when shooting at night. Our eyes are so amazing at picking up the tiniest details in the landscape even during new moon, there is no EVF that can match that. When using a regular viewfinder, once you're eyes are used to the darkness you will be able to see the landscape even when the only light source is the stars. I usually switch off the camera so that I don't get blinded by the bright numbers inside the viewfinder, and then
...Show more

hmm, i agree about the bright daylight, but i always thought modern dslrs with their dim viewfinders (compared to manual focus slrs) sucked for night shooting. i just end up using the focus scale on the lens. i find focusing for shooting stars, night landscape, or extreme low light portraits to be much easier with an evf.



Sep 11, 2018 at 01:07 PM
zhangyue
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p.6 #5 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


sebboh wrote:
hmm, i agree about the bright daylight, but i always thought modern dslrs with their dim viewfinders (compared to manual focus slrs) sucked for night shooting. i just end up using the focus scale on the lens. i find focusing for shooting stars, night landscape, or extreme low light portraits to be much easier with an evf.


I had the same feeling as you about low light EVF shooting. Mostly in term of focusing under low light, Camera with EVF will help me on focus better than my eyes under light I have trouble to see. In his case, we might need quantify the ‘Low’ light. And same as you, I use barrel shooting whenever it is possible. However, focus by wire lens is horrible under that condition. And Nikon’s AF lenses have very poor precision for that as well.

I also have to admit my experience is quite limited under those low light conditions without experience of latest EVF based camera. D850 improved its LV performance (similar idea as EVF) a lot compare to D810 which I had for LV shooting under low light. 810 was almost unusable. I’d guess this limitation should also apply to many early model EVF based cameras. It seems many people complain about low light EVF shooting, some complain about lagging, slower response under high ISO, some complain very noise viewfinder. It has to be related to the performance of particular EVF and sensor of the camera.

Assume Z7 has a very nice EVF, I think what Marsel mentioned is related to shooting condition he had. Based on his images, it is not totally low light but scene with total darkness of tree and early sunrise (? Or flash) which will be relative high dynamic range scene. This is the same situation I were struggle under day light shooting. If the exposure is correct under EVF, the dark part will be total black. Plus more that he will be totally blind once he removed his eyes away from EVF to do composition. It takes time for our eyes get use to environment.

I believe many photographers prefer compose before rise camera to eyes, me included. Have OVF based camera, you don’t need adjust your eyes response because what you see through OVF is similar to what you see in real life at least in term of lightness level. Our eye can adjust dynamic range based on light level. However, whenever we use EVF based camera, there will be discrepancy between scene in our eye/mind and scene in EVF. Once this discrepancy is large enough, it will cause trouble during shooting. It usually happens once it was very bright or very dark or has very high dynamic range exceed EVF JPEG feed can handle. I personally struggle with it once it happen.

Above limitation with subtle delay and blackout, and some IQ degrade implementation such as reduced DR and 12 bit for silent and long exposure shooting(there was quite long list) along with unhappy with ergonomics of early MILC combined make me decide quit Sony. I will give Nikon another try, if it doesn’t work out nicely. I will wait for the next best thing



Sep 11, 2018 at 05:50 PM
zhangyue
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p.6 #6 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


Here are two more test posted.

one for 24-70f4 and 35mm f1.8 lens one for ISO performance compare to D850 and A7RIII.

https://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=248&t=5569423
https://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=248&t=5569924

If you use Google chrome, it can translate for you. However, in this case, all you need to do is look those images.

The new lenses are very promising. I think 24-70 f4 and Z7 can replace 24-70g D850 combo for me for the way I use them.

Nikon have good reason to rave their Z optics. The lenses seems designed for bigger coverage based on WO vignette and corner performance. Their results seems back up their mount size and distance claim.

I haven't decided if I need 35 or 50 yet depend on how M glass perform on Z, but I really like 24-70f4, it is perfect for my use, hopefully I can get the combo first than body only. (I preordered the combe hour late than body)

Another thought about price, I mentioned I think Z7 is overpriced and will see discount around Christmas. Based on more testing results so far, I think most likely they will have delivery problem to meet initial demand. So, I would take my original opinion back. It definitely has its niche in current market. I believe Z6 will be the one as a money maker for Nikon, and we might see Z6 promotion earlier IMO.

DF was never discount even most people think it is over priced. I'd guess the same here for Z7 now that both are manufactured in Japan. Let us see how my predication works this time



Sep 12, 2018 at 03:56 PM
zhangyue
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p.6 #7 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


A few Z7 AF test video
https://www.youtube.com/embed/uoY9qpT2Ceg

https://www.youtube.com/embed/RbYqHo8SqJA

And here is official Nikon Z camera introduction video, highly recommended if you are not familiar with Nikon control.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/XyweFBl7w6I



Sep 17, 2018 at 11:07 PM
zhangyue
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p.6 #8 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


I don't know how long I can keep this thread alive

https://www.mobile01.com/newsdetail/26937/nikon-z7

This is the latest real world review from Mobile01. Awesome! Lots of hard works.

The review is very positive. In the end, he recommend the machine highly, especially for IQ and ergonomics. He concluded Z7 is indeed MILC version of D850. Not as good in terms of AF speed, but gained LV shooting convenience.

One new negative is: High speed Flash sync only work at 5.5fps instead of 10fps. (I believe Sony A7RIII can do 10fps under same condition)

There is a new finding interesting at least for me. Adapting 70-200E have poorer low light AF performance (focus speed) compare to 24-70S f4. This indicate under low light, adapted lens will not have the same speed performance. (remember f4 24-70S has even less light compare to f2.8 70-200E), looks like Z's PDAF will benefit from native wide mount short flange distance glasses. The review didn't mention which AF point though, I expect for center AF, PDAF should have about same performance, the more away from center, the more picky of PDAF for light path of optical design.




Sep 21, 2018 at 01:10 AM
joakim
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p.6 #9 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


I guess we're all waiting now As soon as I had placed my pre-order on the Z7 I started to search the second hand market for a Zeiss ZF 85/1.4 Planar and I found one this weekend so now I have mint condition sitting on my desk waiting with me...


Sep 21, 2018 at 03:35 AM
zhangyue
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p.6 #10 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


joakim wrote:
I guess we're all waiting now As soon as I had placed my pre-order on the Z7 I started to search the second hand market for a Zeiss ZF 85/1.4 Planar and I found one this weekend so now I have mint condition sitting on my desk waiting with me...


Yeh, I have bought that and 50mm planar for a while, not for Z but definity will be use on Z ZF classical are awesome lenses.

Here is cross post I made about wide mount and short flange distance. I think it suit here as well.

Here is Nikon Z 50mm f1.8S. You can see it fully utilize the large mount and short flange distance. I won't deny the extra freedom Nikon Designer having here. and I won't challenge the IQ of Canikon for choosing this size mount and flange distance either.

https://nikonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Nikon-F-mount-50mm-f1.8G-vs-Nikon-Z-mount-50-f1.8-S.png

Copy the image in DPREVIEW link Sauseschritt provided here for easy illustration.

https://1.img-dpreview.com/files/p/TS560x560~forums/61552323/a7d80221cc2b4366bc023b18b2da0662

You can see sensor, mount and lens design relationship more clear. Large mount with short flange distance will cut less light into the sensor.

Not a experts, but always interest to understand fundamental tech stuff. I found out there are many benefits for wide mount and short flange distance such as corner sharpness, vignette. One thing I have recently found out during research is it might help improving PDAF performance. You might want to ask why there is no full frame or even bigger coverage PDAF in DSLR even for their flagship one and why AF speed and accuracy degrade with periphery AF spots. It is because PDAF is more and more difficult to implement once light hit more periphery with steeper angle, it is harder to detect phase difference (pure mathematic calculation rely on dedicate processor and algorithm) and Lens with poor periphery performance make it even more difficult. With bigger element close to sensor, light path will be not altered as much to help both PDAF and optical performance.



Sep 21, 2018 at 11:12 AM
uhoh7
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p.6 #11 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


Great Thread, thanks Michael

Nice to see Canikon step up, and I think we are going to see some great new options. These Zs look very sweet.



Sep 24, 2018 at 11:25 AM
zhangyue
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p.6 #12 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


uhoh7 wrote:
Great Thread, thanks Michael

Nice to see Canikon step up, and I think we are going to see some great new options. These Zs look very sweet.


Glad it helps one way or the other. I look forward to it myself. I know Panasonic will be another interesting option but I can wait a little bit more for that one until I got all the info I needed.

The thing is if I am still with Nikon DSLR, Z7 seems a no brainer option and I personally never need fancy AF or other fancy tech myself but high IQ with different raw size option and format option with good shooting experience and quickly access key function without remember all the button and manual items are way more important to me. The new i button with customizable function icon on touch screen will cover lots of my need such as change from normal shooting to landscape quickly. It seems even more useful than 'my manual' with new touch screen, will see.

For people want best MILC AFC performance or want full line AF glass now, Sony is definitely a better option.

Otherwise, I personally feel Nikon should be preferred. The system has lots of potential. I also dream its 0.95 Noct. Hopefully, it is within 5K range. If they could build a full set of Manual lens like that, I will be locked in.

This is very personal. I know many laughed idea of manual monster. However, this is the most exciting lens introduced in past 5 years to me. I feel it will be ground breaking good with the new Z mount.

keep my finger crossed.



Sep 25, 2018 at 01:17 AM
zhangyue
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p.6 #13 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


Now the first batch of Z start to deliver to people. Mine is on its way to me. No 24-70 lens though. Look forward to receive it tomorrow and report something worthy.

Hopefully, people can start share real stuff from now on.

If you want follow latest Z7 info. Nikonrumors is still a good place to check.



Sep 27, 2018 at 04:31 PM
zhangyue
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p.6 #14 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


I have Z7 now, only a few hours. But I am an experienced Nikon user so setup is straight forward. I’d say it doesn’t beat my expectation. It handle actually very similar to A7RII I had, with a little better hold-ability for sure, at least my pinky is on the grip. but back side is almost like a Sony clone. This is a disappointing actually to me. I wish they can make it slightly taller with slightly better button feel, but I guess I should have know that based on available information before.

The control is still Nikon. Nikon user will feel right home though all different AF option again remind me of Sony. Not a compliment. Please disregard what I said if you like Sony’s implementation. I understand perfectly but I want to be honest to myself.

Top screen is right home for Nikon user. i button is very useful to access landscape setting quick such as exposure delay, EFC, silent shutter, multiple exposure, bracket etc alone with image format, raw size.

Viewfinder is way better than A7RII I had, not only better resolution and clarity but also Flickr free somehow. In the afternoon, under good harsh light, I hit focus 100% with 55mm OTUS use VF when subject was within 3M.

However, I could not found set effect on or off (Sony has it) anywhere so you can only mess up with viewing experience if you want exposure differently under high DR situation. The button on side of viewfinder is super useful. I set it monitor only and VF priority and disable all rest function choice. I am right home here just like shooting SLR. Sony’s poor implementation drive me crazy in field. I don’t know how Sony behave now.

I can’t make “in focus indicator” work with manual lens like leitaxed Leica R or ZF.2 OTUS as well. The confirmation dot seems works for all my G and E and native S glass works fine AND ONLY FINE in AF-s, single point AF. I don’t understand the logic that is not usable for manual glass but AF glass here though. I hope this is just firmware glitch. Otherwise, this could be a deal breaker. Confirmation accuracy is no better than D850. I can’t tell if it is worse though, need more careful setup, but definitely no better so I believe it is PDAF only.

The 24-70S lens is a great performer. I did the aperture series test with 24-70g but haven’t go through the images yet. Based on viewing in LCD, it beat 24-70g hand down. And it’s manual focus have better accuracy than G lens actually.

I haven’t test AFC myself, it will be difficult test I know. I personally don’t really care it’s AFC performance but AFS seems super fast and accurate. For landscape it did as good as I carefully 200% zoom manual focus if not better. Focus behavior is wider than F5.6, it focus at shooting aperture, after that it focus at f5.6. I prefer SLR type focus and think this is decent implementation for landscape shots that I can still select my DOF by focusing at f5.6 shoot at f11.

Handling wise, there is no comparison, D850 won hand down at least for me, I don’t get it to replace my D850 but as a light high performance travel kit or digital back for my other manual glass and as a back up for D850.

The real selling point of Z is small size , best FF IQ, and video and really high performance glass. Don’t forget EVF abased shooting if you like that. The lens really set the tone for this system. Don’t know other brand but based on what I see with 24-70, this is indeed in another level of performance. This is a promising Mount.

Overall, it meet my personal expectation for what I use it for, but I will only give it a B to B plus if D850 is a solid A IMHO.

Please don't feel offended if I use Sony as a reference, I might have strong personal bias over SLR type shooting and Sony is the only EVF based camera I used. I have to say, other than Nikon UI, the overall experience between Z and A will be very similar. I wish Nikon can do some out of box thinking. They indeed make a 70~80%
Sony clone with their sauce, that is can be good for some and bad for others.

Not a rave review for sure, but a few road trip may totally change the tone



Sep 29, 2018 at 01:01 AM
joakim
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p.6 #15 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


Great write-up Michael!


Sep 29, 2018 at 02:09 AM
zhangyue
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p.6 #16 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


Did you get yours yet? Don’t let me so so review affect your decision. Take whatever you think useful and discard others.

I might made mistake about set effect on. There is D8 customer setting may work the same. I will verify tomorrow and report back.

After handling Z7, I think I may like PANAleica more in term of body size and design. Hopefully once M adapter available I will change my mind.

joakim wrote:
Great write-up Michael!




Sep 29, 2018 at 02:51 AM
joakim
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p.6 #17 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


zhangyue wrote:
Did you get yours yet? Don’t let me so so review affect your decision. Take whatever you think useful and discard others.

I might made mistake about set effect on. There is D8 customer setting may work the same. I will verify tomorrow and report back.

After handling Z7, I think I may like PANAleica more in term of body size and design. Hopefully once M adapter available I will change my mind.



No words on delivery here in Sweden yet which is a bummer since I am really looking forward to get my hands on this camera, I think it will fill a much larger gap for me that doesn't have a D850 or similar camera and that I also will be quite forgiving on some short-comings if it delivers on IQ, ergonomics, view finder and general usability.

The review from Ming Thein was promising in this regard.

Also, adapters for the Z series can now be ordered from Novoflex Germany



Sep 29, 2018 at 08:45 AM
Frogfish
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p.6 #18 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


I had a play with this today whilst buying my A9

It feels gorgeous in the hand (with 24-70/4 attached) and I love the screen and EVF. Size (noticeably bigger than the Sonys but not too large) and Grip feel great. AF is relatively sluggish but if I was using Nikon I'd have no problem buying this. However as a Sony user there is no way I'd switch just for this, the A9 kills it and even my A7rii betters the AF though I have better lenses than that Nikon 24-70.



Sep 29, 2018 at 02:31 PM
zhangyue
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p.6 #19 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


No way A7Rii is better. I just did a few test this morning under day light with my son running toward me with full auto. It works fine. I will see if I can upload them later. But I really not want to try prove anything but pass the information since this is really not a important feature to me. One thing for sure, This is not a bird in fly or sport camera for sure. Other type of wide life? Maybe.

Again, for me AF is not a show stopper even it is as sluggish as A7rii Which I don’t have much complain about in term of its AF though all kind of option make selection tidiouse and slow in field and even confusion sometime.

My major complain is actually size and operating feel in hand. Like I said, put down manual preference and basic control button placement, there is not much difference between Z and A. However, I do prefer Nikon way most of the time especially I can turn off lots of option such as AF option, format option(I only leave 4x5, DX and 2X3), size,(large and medium) meter mode, EVF and monitor option, which is a big plus to simplify cluster feature I don’t use.
Overall, Z is still a modern electronics with too much option loaded but I can’t complain and won’t expect others are better.

As for AF comments yesterday, I have further optimize my setting now, only leave AF single point and Auto area focus option and disable all other three. This seems simplifying the AF setting tremendously at least I can quickly access full auto mode if I want.

Today i definitely feel better than yesterday. And I know “set effect on”can be done with customer D8. Now I put this in ‘my manual’ for occasion need in field for high DR case. With future M lens adapter, I might like it’s size more. With i button and my manual, basically cover all my need for setting.

There is no focus confirmation for manual lens even ZF.2 type. I hope this is not intentional omit from Nikon, otherwise I have less a reason to keep it in the future.

So far, the more I use 24-70S, the more I feel this could be one of the reason to keep the system for me. It totally cover my need with even more for what I used 24-70g with D850 in Iceland.

BTW, I feel this EVF is even better than SL I demo in Leica SF a few times before, but I don’t think I am knowledge enough to set SL properly at those few occasions.


Frogfish wrote:
I had a play with this today whilst buying my A9

It feels gorgeous in the hand (with 24-70/4 attached) and I love the screen and EVF. Size (noticeably bigger than the Sonys but not too large) and Grip feel great. AF is relatively sluggish but if I was using Nikon I'd have no problem buying this. However as a Sony user there is no way I'd switch just for this, the A9 kills it and even my A7rii betters the AF though I have better lenses than that Nikon 24-70.




Sep 29, 2018 at 03:34 PM
Frogfish
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p.6 #20 · Alt forum Nikon Z resource, discussion and image thread


zhangyue wrote:
No way A7Rii is better. I just did a few test this morning under day light with my son running toward me with full auto. It works fine. I will see if I can upload them later. But I really not want to try prove anything but pass the information since this is really not a important feature to me. One thing for sure, This is not a bird in fly or sport camera for sure. Other type of wide life? Maybe.

Again, for me AF is not a show stopper even it is as sluggish as A7rii Which I
...Show more
You have the camera in hand so I bow to your greater knowledge in this area. However from a simple test (1m to 5m, the back of the shop) the Z7 with 24-70/4 was noticeably slower than my A7rii with FE 55/1.8. As I said though this could simply be a difference in the quality of the lenses rather than AF per se.




Sep 29, 2018 at 04:14 PM
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