p.10 #1 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
johnvanr wrote:
Becoming more intriguing, but short of fast long teles still not interesting enough compared to Nikon or Canon for BIF. And still that body and that menu system.
Also wondering what their naming convention now means: does A9whatever stand for speed, body type, low resolution?
Still not seeing the sony movement, don't you. Overall will be different ball game in couple years for soncanikon.
p.10 #2 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
I will wholeheartedly admit that I have yet to use in person Sony's IBIS. I do however, find it extremely difficult to believe that any image stabilization system is capable of reducing camera shake at a per pixel level on any FF camera with MP of this level. And per pixel sharpness is what we are talking about when maximizing resolution. Not acceptable perceived sharpness.
I'm not even talking about IBIS.
I'm talking about holding the camera still. It's not very hard to do when you aren't struggling with mirror slap and shutter shock and you use a sufficiently fast shutter speed for your AOV.
I'm really not interested in justifying my photographic techniques and equipment preferences to you any more while you continue to make claims about how I can't possibly take sharp handheld photos. No one is asking you to photograph without a tripod.
p.10 #3 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
If you check out the Sony site there's a sequence of 10 eagle shots. My buddy took them with a preproduction camera and 100-400 zoomed out pretty far if not all the way. I was standing on the bow of his boat, throwing herring as bait. He loved the fast AF acquisition/lock but he felt the tracking was lacking vs his A9. I guess we'll see how the production units do.
Justin Stone wrote:
I want to see how it performs with the 100-400 GM. That could tell us most everything about the AF performance.
p.10 #5 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
I think pixel shift will be more useful for landscapes than people think. If you were photographing a waterfall or a mountain you can easily take another single frame and mask in any movements or moving items. Maybe places like beach photography it will be mostly useless, but I can think of a zillion ways to use it in landscapes.
Using it to capture hard surfaces for extra detail and colour will be very worth while. We buy the best lenses money can buy why wouldn’t you want to get more out of them, even if it is by ‘masking in’ only hard surfaces.
p.10 #6 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
drewmey wrote:
I will wholeheartedly admit that I have yet to use in person Sony's IBIS. I do however, find it extremely difficult to believe that any image stabilization system is capable of reducing camera shake at a per pixel level on any FF camera with MP of this level. And per pixel sharpness is what we are talking about when maximizing resolution. Not acceptable perceived sharpness.
You may be finding your hand held images acceptably sharp at 1/FL. I guess I am saying that a hand held a7rii with IBIS with 1/FL may very likely have no actual resolution advantage over say an a7r on a tripod. Both may be acceptably sharp, but I am saying you may not be acquiring the advantage of those extra MP without proper stabilization. The same would apply to the original commentators wishing for more resolution in the a7riii. Without proper stabilization, it is very likely that the imaginary a7riii (with say 60MP) could have no additional resolution advantage when compared to a a7rii (or this real a7riii) on a tripod. This pretty much falls in line with what Canon shooters said when the 5DSR came out, the only difference being IBIS vs Canon lens IS.
All these things aside, this camera sounds great to me. Sounds like it finally fixes many of the things that originally kept me away from Sony (dual slots and battery life mainly). Always personal, but I'd take the mentioned improvements over more MP....Show more →
You should get out more and try this idea for real. Admitting you have never used IBIS, then going on to defend your opinion, is not a very sound method of debate on a gear forum like this.
In real life, it's not hard to hand hold with good technique (or find places to prop a camera or wedge a body). But it does involve practice and discipline. I frequently shoot below the reciprocal theory, at 1/10 - 1/30 sec -- admittedly, I take two or three frames to choose the sharpest. But at 100% viewing, I'm seldom disappointed from 36-51MP sensors, and I consider myself a critical pixel-peeper.
Of course, time exposures require a fixed support.
p.10 #9 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
Luvwine wrote:
Thank you for the explanation. It does seem like Sony's implementation of Pixel shift leaves some things to be desired if I am understanding correctly. Still, I have read folks saying that Sony's implementation of pixel shift will provide a 99 MP image file after combining. I get the advantages of color reproduction--nothing to sneeze at for copy work and some other still life photography--but it was the larger image file that got me thinking. Again, with play memories SR app, we get less noise in the shadows and a single raw output. Now, they seem to be killing the apps but give us pixel shift. What the right hand giveth, the left hand taketh away. I would be much more attracted to pixel shift if it output a single raw file--especially if it increased resolution. As it seems to be, with the requirement of combining images in post (with proprietary software??), the advantage of pixel shift may be more limited than it could (should) have been. Thank you for the helpful response and discussion. ...Show more →
I'm not sure where they are getting that 99MP value... I suspect they mean that the resolving ability of the file is comparable to a 99MP bayer-filtered image, but I'm not sure. (YES, I see that comment on the Alpha Rumors site, this is what they mean!).
It's complicated how you get there, but if you can picture that each pixel location had R, G, and B values to make the image, but in a Bayer filtered sensor, you only get one of those channels for every pixel location. This allows the sensor to approximate color vision effectively.
Because of that, you have to approximate the R value at four locations based on the actual R value of only one pixel in the Bayer grid. The same for the B values at all four locations. For the G pixels, you actually have two pixels of G in the Bayer filter grid, so you only have to double the information, not quadruple it.
All of this quadrupling and doubling means that the actual resolution of the individual color channels in the RAW files is nowhere near that of the full sensor (a 42MP sensor really is approximately a 10.5MP Red sensor, a 10.5MP Blue sensor, and a 21MP Green sensor in terms of actual number of photosites dedicated to each color channel).
But, when you do the pixel shifting and recombine as implemented by Sony, you end up with 42M of information in each channel in the final combined file.
What that means is that the file won't look nearly as mushy at the pixel level for micro-details, replicating the potential resolving capabilities of a much larger Bayer-filtered image.
p.10 #10 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
The new Sony looks interesting. I skipped the A7rII, wasn't interested in the A9; had hoped for a 60 mega byte camera. Will probably add this to use with my A7r and A7r Kolari V3 camera in the future when I am able. Will be able to use the camera at least to some extent with my Cambo Actus Camera. I may well have to upgrade the Actus for the larger camera so that I have more movements. May do the upgrade for the version for the Fujifilm camera which I am still on the fence about.
p.10 #11 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
stevesanacore wrote:
Why would they remove PlayMemories? That is such a great feature. I use that often as an excellent remote and back up to tethering in certain situations. Is there an alternative to it?
Edit - I just read all the specs on the Sony website and they list PlayMemories as included with all the apps. wifi-, smartphone etc. Where did you read that PlayMemories was not available on this camera?
remote is still there, as well as file transfers, but lacking SR, means I'll default to the A7rii for landscapes. Kind of sad, hope someone opens up a petition or maybe sony's software can do in post? Manual post process stacked images in adobe is a total disaster.
p.10 #13 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
azenis wrote:
After the announcement, all I'm thinking is... where are the people trying to unload their A9 to get the A7RIII?
I’m probably going to sell my A9 but this was my plan all along. My issue was the A7rII as it could not keep up to my needs. So I bought time in essence buying the A9. It has everything I need except 42mpx. Low -3EV , faster Af better Eye Af. Faster buffer and many other needed feature sets. I love my A9 no question but I don’t shoot sports or have the extreme need for speed. The A7rIII is what I wanted all along but I need it to come close to the A9 in operation and if it hits all the check marks I’m in. So far it looks god but I will say this if you never handled a A9 for real shooting it’s a heck of a lot to give up and worth it’s price tag. Period so anyone says the A9 is not worth it has no real idea if Pro needs so ignore the stupid comments on it. This cam is just going to be more bait for the fanboys of other brands. My advice stick to the real facts. How is this going help you or not.
p.10 #14 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
Just be careful what your reading out there folks. I’m already reading bad info and stupid comments outside this forum. Be smart do the homework. I’ve been down this road many times.
p.10 #15 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
GMPhotography wrote:
I’m probably going to sell my A9 but this was my plan all along. My issue was the A7rII as it could not keep up to my needs. So I bought time in essence buying the A9. It has everything I need except 42mpx. Low -3EV , faster Af better Eye Af. Faster buffer and many other needed feature sets. I love my A9 no question but I don’t shoot sports or have the extreme need for speed. The A7rIII is what I wanted all along but I need it to come close to the A9 in operation and if it hits all the check marks I’m in. So far it looks god but I will say this if you never handled a A9 for real shooting it’s a heck of a lot to give up and worth it’s price tag. Period so anyone says the A9 is not worth it has no real idea if Pro needs so ignore the stupid comments on it. This cam is just going to be more bait for the fanboys of other brands. My advice stick to the real facts. How is this going help you or not. ...Show more →
Yeah, this is about getting a camera that does not get in your way. Let’s be frank, the A7r2 can be a turtle at times. Never tried the A9, because I knew I would fall in love. Was just too expensive for me, but A7r3 looks the part!
p.10 #16 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
Gunzorro wrote:
You should get out more and try this idea for real. Admitting you have never used IBIS, then going on to defend your opinion, is not a very sound method of debate on a gear forum like this.
In real life, it's not hard to hand hold with good technique (or find places to prop a camera or wedge a body). But it does involve practice and discipline. I frequently shoot below the reciprocal theory, at 1/10 - 1/30 sec -- admittedly, I take two or three frames to choose the sharpest. But at 100% viewing, I'm seldom disappointed from 36-51MP sensors, and I consider myself a critical pixel-peeper.
Of course, time exposures require a fixed support. ...Show more →
Thanks and it is unfortunately not a matter of "getting out and trying it". It is a matter of spending thousands of dollars on a FF kit I simply can't afford or justify And I quite frequently take pictures at the reciprocal rule as well, even without stabilization...but my expectations are sharp images, not maximizing resolution.
And in my defense, my opinion was based on my understanding of physics, the human body (shake), and an understanding of how unimaginably small a single pixel is. Even if I had the equipment, I probably would not have the skills to properly test my theorizing or your all's conclusions. I still find it hard to believe that any consumer grade electronic can measure, quantify, and react to a hand movements at the level of precision required for a sensor with a pixel pitch of 4.5 microns (aka .0045mm !!!). But for now all I can do is take your word for it
Oct 25, 2017 at 12:14 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.10 #17 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
One question that I haven't seen addressed is whether there is a way to set up the camera so that you can use electronic first curtain shutter (EFCS) for shutter speeds slower than 1/1000 and the mechanical shutter for faster shutter speeds. I prefer EFCS for slower shutter speeds to prevent shutter shock, but at shutter speeds faster than 1/1000 EFCS can have negative effects on the bokeh of fast lenses, so I want it turned off for such instances and shutter shock should be a non-issue for such fast shutter speeds. The trouble is I sometimes (to tell the truth often) forget to do so and then I am pissed that the bokeh isn't what I would like, or I do turn it off but forget to turn it back on when shooting slower shutter speeds and see a bit of shutter shock. It would be so convenient if the the camera made the switch automatically and I didn't have to remember and it should be easy for Sony to program this change. I was hoping this might be integrated into the new camera.
p.10 #18 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
My take is that almost none of the new features in the camera are terribly useful to me, and in a few respects, this creates more hassles.
- I already have a 42MP camera, so I gain nothing there.
- Presumably, it will still be missing a lossless cRAW file format, so no improvement there.
- Presumably still has the Sony-patented Stareater feature.
- I don't want to have two different battery sizes in my bag to deal with; that's a drawback.
- 10 fps is basically useless to me.
- Better video is basically useless to me.
- Faster/better AF is basically useless to me, but may somehow be beneficial in low light situations.
- The improved VF will be very nice
- The improved dynamic range will be nice if that proves to be a real benefit and not marketing speak.
- The frame buffer and speed of saving will be nice as I occasionally fill the buffer when shooting.
- The pixel shift will be a real benefit for art and copy work and still life shooting.
- If they improve peaking and other software aspects, these could be very beneficial assets.
- Silent shooting is nice at some times. I would use it all the time if it does 14-bit files.
I'm somewhat conflicted by their offering. I feel like they should have moved this up to the a9 series and somehow beefed it up a bit, and then offered an a7RIII camera that was more in-line with the older a7 cameras but with increased MP sensor, cRAW, pixel shift, smaller battery, slower frame rate, etc. in the future.
My feeling is that I'll pass on this camera for a while and see if any of the improvements are meaningful enough to consider the hassle of a different battery and the seemingly lack of improvement in other areas that I would value.
HOWEVER, the 24-105 looks very interesting, and it makes me wonder if I will regret purchasing the 25-70 GM this past spring. I don't really have a need for the speed, and would prefer a cheaper, smaller, and lighter lens in my kit. That one will be very interesting as performance comparisons begin to appear.
p.10 #20 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
Interesting and helpful. I'd doubt the production cam would be much different, but maybe there is some fine tuning that can be done to the lens as well in firmware.
akclimber wrote:
If you check out the Sony site there's a sequence of 10 eagle shots. My buddy took them with a preproduction camera and 100-400 zoomed out pretty far if not all the way. I was standing on the bow of his boat, throwing herring as bait. He loved the fast AF acquisition/lock but he felt the tracking was lacking vs his A9. I guess we'll see how the production units do.
And I quite frequently take pictures at the reciprocal rule as well, even without stabilization...but my expectations are sharp images, not maximizing resolution.