p.46 #1 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
johnctharp wrote:
In theory, it should be able to, but in practice, there may be limitations. A review that does a comparison with a Canon camera equipped with their DPAF technology (the current benchmark video servo AF) would certainly be enlightening!
[lots of things could become problematic; for the Sony system, the particular lens used is likely to make a larger difference, as video servo needs both speed and fine adjustment capability out of lens AF; further, while Sony has very good PDAF coverage and great readout speeds, there are still AF coverage gaps]
there already is, check out Dave Dugdale's videos.
Sony lenses are designed for photos and videos, while most of canon lenses are designed strictly for photos and perform poorly for video
You might find it useless outdoors or when camera handheld. It is very interesting but so limited, otherwise Olympus would have got a lot attention.
Yes, it is a neat feature and the results are pretty impressive when you can use it in the right conditions but eventually you realize it is so limiting that you can't consider it to be a viable substitute for having a higher resolution, higher dynamic range sensor.
p.46 #3 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
RobCD wrote:
Yes, it is a neat feature and the results are pretty impressive when you can use it in the right conditions but eventually you realize it is so limiting that you can't consider it to be a viable substitute for having a higher resolution, higher dynamic range sensor.
Implementation and execution of the pixel shift feature is cumbersome on the A7R3. There's a minimum 1/2sec delay between shots, and the final image has to be created out-of-camera using a new type of raw file.
p.46 #4 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
Charlie N wrote:
there already is, check out Dave Dugdale's videos.
Sony lenses are designed for photos and videos, while most of canon lenses are designed strictly for photos and perform poorly for video
...most of Canon's USM lenses and all of their Nano-USM and STM lenses perform very well for both stills and video, as do ring-USM equipped Tamron and Sigma lenses, when comparing DPAF.
DPAF can keep a 50/1.2L or 85/1.2L on subject wide-open, for example.
But the real question isn't whether or not they can pull focus- they both can- it is examining the point at which they both fail, and then making a comparison. I.e., how accurate are they both with a certain level of movement? How much movement causes each system to lose eye focus, and then face focus altogether?
And to be clear, I'm talking about comparing the A7R III, say cropped for best quality, vs. a 5D IV (which is cropped in 4k already).
p.46 #5 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
johnctharp wrote:
...most of Canon's USM lenses and all of their Nano-USM and STM lenses perform very well for both stills and video, as do ring-USM equipped Tamron and Sigma lenses, when comparing DPAF.
DPAF can keep a 50/1.2L or 85/1.2L on subject wide-open, for example.
But the real question isn't whether or not they can pull focus- they both can- it is examining the point at which they both fail, and then making a comparison. I.e., how accurate are they both with a certain level of movement? How much movement causes each system to lose eye focus, and then face focus altogether?
And to be clear, I'm talking about comparing the A7R III, say cropped for best quality, vs. a 5D IV (which is cropped in 4k already)....Show more →
They dont perform well, you're not comparing apples to apples.
here's the 24-70 mk ii and how it works with AF video (6:30 mark): . Look how the Tamron works on the 5Div, that's how all sony video lenses work, basically silent.
On the sony, the 24-70ii would perform similarly in advance mode, that noise is unbearable. Nano USM/stm are the minority of Canon lenses, most will perform poorly for video. Sigma Art lenses dont perform well either, a little on the noisey side.
Considering that the FE 50 gets a terrible rep for video use noise, it's still vastly superior to Canon USM lenses in that regard.
p.46 #6 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
sullivanrp wrote:
Any projection on tethered shooting speeds with the usb upgrade? The A7R II left a lot to be desired in my limited time with one... (maybe it was just my adjustment from a 5D III file size, or maybe the improved USB will actually speed up the file transfer)
Also, anyone know if tether tools already has a cable that fits, or if we have to wait for them to create one in the next couple months
I'm hoping that Sony includes a usb-c cable in the box. I then hope I can then use a Tether Tools USB-3 extension with it. For my A7R2 I had to use the USB2 extension and as you already mentioned, it is slow. I would assume Tether Tools will make a usb-c cable too.
p.46 #7 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
pdmphoto wrote:
Implementation and execution of the pixel shift feature is cumbersome on the A7R3. There's a minimum 1/2sec delay between shots, and the final image has to be created out-of-camera using a new type of raw file.
I'm sure some will appreciate this info. It doesn't matter to me because it's not a feature that I consider useful regardless of implementation.
p.46 #8 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
nandadevieast wrote:
Now that the 3 is out with same resolution as 2, I am wondering why someone who shoots MF lenses like CV or Loxi, will want to upgrade?
Hmm . . . it's really not that hard to imagine what the upgrade attractiveness for a landscape shooter (however you want to define that):
- Better battery life (the fewer the better or conversely longer life with the same number of batteries).
- Better IBIS (not all landscapers use a tripod - many times I do not because I'm on the go or a tripod is too heavy)
- Better EVF - Higher resolution and faster framing rate
- USB3.1 C Connector - Hopefully this will enable third party tethering via phone/tablet apps
- Faster overall operation - hate waiting to chimp a shot while the camera is doing whatever . . .
- Full 14 bit data with electronic shutter (great for long glass in low light and low shutter speeds)
- Dual card slots - comes in handy in many ways
- Touch screen comes in handy when changing settings
- Programmable button besides the darned menu button on the left side of the EVF!
All of the above make the landscape shooting experience even better. There is a lot to like for us landscape shooters.
p.46 #9 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
pdmphoto wrote:
Implementation and execution of the pixel shift feature is cumbersome on the A7R3. There's a minimum 1/2sec delay between shots, and the final image has to be created out-of-camera using a new type of raw file.
Half second delay is problematic (maybe this will be improved via firmware at a later date), but the out of camera combining of the images doesn't bother me one bit. I don't want my A7RIII doing any in-camera processing that I don't have some sort of control over. Plus I don't want it doing anything really other than recording images.
p.46 #10 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
Charlie N wrote:
On the sony, the 24-70ii would perform similarly in advance mode, that noise is unbearable.
Holy goal-post shifting batman!
I'm talking about video focus, which your video does show the Canon superior to the Tamron in smoothness, though both are good, but you're going to complain about noise?
Are you actually going to use the onboard mic? Seriously?
Please try staying on topic. Claiming 'the noise is unbearable!' when you wouldn't even use the camera that way in practice is silly when I'm talking about comparing video focus, especially about a camera that's not even available for purchase yet!
[did you miss the 'sound boosted*' notification in the video you shared as well? Lol!]
p.46 #11 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
johnctharp wrote:
Holy goal-post shifting batman!
I'm talking about video focus, which your video does show the Canon superior to the Tamron in smoothness, though both are good, but you're going to complain about noise?
Are you actually going to use the onboard mic? Seriously?
Please try staying on topic. Claiming 'the noise is unbearable!' when you wouldn't even use the camera that way in practice is silly when I'm talking about comparing video focus, especially about a camera that's not even available for purchase yet!
[did you miss the 'sound boosted*' notification in the video you shared as well? Lol!]
It's not, you probably never even used the 24-70ii for video. You don't need to boost audio to hear the AF, secondly, a million other vids to show the jagged movement.
I owned the lens for years, quite aware of the video limitations. Even have the latest 135 art, same issue.
And I do use the lens that way in practice. You only assume ide use an external audio device since Canon's one is so poor.
p.46 #12 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
jhinkey wrote:
Half second delay is problematic (maybe this will be improved via firmware at a later date), but the out of camera combining of the images doesn't bother me one bit. I don't want my A7RIII doing any in-camera processing that I don't have some sort of control over. Plus I don't want it doing anything really other than recording images.
p.46 #13 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
Charlie N wrote:
And I do use the lens that way in practice.
So you don't want to actually mic your subject? Sorry, I'd only use the onboard audio as a solution of last resort, and/or to use for timing. The only lens noise I'd worry about is the noise that lenses that use DC motors in the lenses or in the camera body make .
Charlie N wrote:
You only assume ide use an external audio device since Canon's one is so poor.
Best not to make assumptions. But at least you returned to the original topic!
p.46 #15 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
jhinkey wrote:
Half second delay is problematic (maybe this will be improved via firmware at a later date), but the out of camera combining of the images doesn't bother me one bit. I don't want my A7RIII doing any in-camera processing that I don't have some sort of control over. Plus I don't want it doing anything really other than recording images.
In-camera processing that outputs a jpeg, in addition to a raw file (for external processing) would be nice.
p.46 #17 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
In my case, tripod shooting is slow shooting anyway. Deploying my tripod, fixing the camera, shutting down the IBIS, setting the timer to "on", all this takes time befire even beginning to compose, both with tripod and camera. So, as long as I am willing to spend that sort of time for a sot or a series of shots, waiting a bit in between shots doesn't faze me. But that's just me. Maybe some of you can get good work done "on the fly" with a tripod, and I'd love to learn how, because, every time I try and rush it, I flub it!
p.46 #19 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
pdmphoto wrote:
Implementation and execution of the pixel shift feature is cumbersome on the A7R3. There's a minimum 1/2sec delay between shots, and the final image has to be created out-of-camera using a new type of raw file.
You need to compare the pixel shift (for landscape use) against the alternatives.
Upgrading to PhaseOne XF100 / Hasselblad H6D-100c
+ should exceed the image quality of A7RIII pixel shift in all but a few rare cases
+ tripod not absolutely necessary
- prohibitively expensive, heavier
Stitching a panorama with a longer lens
+ potential resolution improvements are huge (e.g. 1000 megapixels possible)
+ tripod not absolutely necessary
- hard to previsualise how the final shot will be composed
- slow, need to take many images, can be slow and requires concentration (unless a motorised head is used)
- postprocessing can take a long time, requires some manual intervention (to finish, fill gaps, crop etc.)
- subject movement causes problems
- potential parallax errors with foreground
- no automatic fallback
handheld multi-resolution
+ resolution improvement can be greater than pixel shift
+ no tripod required
+ automatic fallback (just use one of the images)
- postprocessing is not trivial
- slow, need to shoot many images
- can be unpredictable (you rely on random movement of the camera)
- subject movement causes problems
Pixel Shift
+ postprocessing should be quick/simple (unless there's movement)
+ automatic fallback (provided original RAWs can be extracted)
+ relatively quick to shoot (4 seconds), no manual intervention
- tripod required
- limited resolution improvement
- subject movement causes major problems
So pixel shift has some nice features, you can compose your shots in the usual way, and you should be able to try it, if it fails you haven't lost anything (unlike if you screw up a panorama).
But movement is going to kill it, although you have the option of comping in parts of the original images, e.g. you can replace the whole sky very easily (there's limited detail in the sky anyway). However with foliage you may end up replacing so much of the image that you might as well have not bothered.
But for distant foliage when there's no wind, or for primarily rocky landscapes it could be a real winner in terms of results/usability.
p.46 #20 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
philber wrote:
In my case, tripod shooting is slow shooting anyway. Deploying my tripod, fixing the camera, shutting down the IBIS, setting the timer to "on", all this takes time befire even beginning to compose, both with tripod and camera. So, as long as I am willing to spend that sort of time for a sot or a series of shots, waiting a bit in between shots doesn't faze me. But that's just me. Maybe some of you can get good work done "on the fly" with a tripod, and I'd love to learn how, because, every time I try and rush it, I flub it!...Show more →
You and Phillip need to set up a custom setting (C1, C2) on the dial. My C1 setting on the dial is set to 2 sec delay, ISO100, f8 (native glass), IBIS Off, Aperture mode. So, I only set the camera on the tripod and set the camera to 1. Saves a bunch of time. Yes, you still need to set up the tripod. There's no custom setting for that!
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