p.24 #1 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
GMPhotography wrote:
Spec sheet does address it
I wonder what they mean by "large improvement" in sharpness and color.
Oct 26, 2017 at 09:25 AM
Steve Spencer Online • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.24 #2 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
GMPhotography wrote:
Spec sheet does address it
My bad, I couldn't find it in the Sony literature when I looked for it. So, yes Sony does say up to 15 stops, which is in and of itself pretty vague because as I noted yesterday there is still no agreed upon way to measure stops of DR. Note they do not say a 1 stop improvement in DR over the A7r II. I stand by my assessment that it will be nowhere near a stop improvement in DR, but a quarter of a stop at most. This will still be excellent at very near the top of FF 35mm sensors.
p.24 #5 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
Steve Spencer wrote:
My guess is that is referring to using pixel shift which will provide a quite noticeable improvement in sharpness and color when you can use it.
Could the "up to 15 stops" dynamic range also be related to the pixel shift mode? Just a guess from me.
p.24 #6 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
GMPhotography wrote:
Can I just say I’m giving Sony a little more credit with there numbers than the conspiracy theory going on here. It’s 15 stops folks get over it
That's just not how it works though - if there was a standardised way of measuring dynamic range then sure I would trust the figure. But there, isn't so Sony stating the dynamic range as 15 stops is I'm afraid completely meaningless on it's own.
Dynamic range is the ratio between the brightest and darkest signals the sensor can capture. The brightest signal is easy to measure, that's just where the highlights clip. But how do you define the darkest signal the sensor can record? Is it the darkest text that's still readable? The darkest object that you can still recognise?
Ultimately most people choose some set signal-to-noise ratio figure and say when the SNR hits that value then that's the darkest thing we can record. But the choice of value is arbitrary, and different values give rise to different DR figures.
Sony haven't stated which SNR value they use. And they also haven't (as far as I can tell) stated what the DR of the A7RII is, so we can't tell either what the value is (in terms we can relate to) or what the improvement from the previous model is!
Oct 26, 2017 at 09:39 AM
Steve Spencer Online • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.24 #7 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
bjornthun wrote:
Could the "up to 15 stops" dynamic range also be related to the pixel shift mode? Just a guess from me.
Perhaps, it is less clear to me how pixel shift will increase DR, than how it will increase color and sharpness. I suppose it may well lower noise which could increase DR, so that might very well be what they are talking about.
p.24 #8 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
Pre-order made through the FM link to B&H.
Need to let the D800 go and prep the A7RII to be sold off at an even larger diminished value - that's just how it goes with digital cameras - sell them while they have value as eventually the value will effectively go to zero rather quickly.
p.24 #9 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
Although Pixel shift gets a different entry after the sharpness and color. We can only hope there is actual improvements in these areas but it sure smells a bit like marketing hype.
p.24 #10 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
I think for many of us the A7RII was such a massive leap, as was the A9. I must admit, I don't feel like the A7RIII has that same, "Holy COW!" draw to it as an A7RII owner, but I've no doubt the improvements will be pretty noticeable. The AF joystick, touch screen, improved viewfinder, faster AF, more frames per/sec and who couldn't use an extra stop of dynamic range, better IBS and better battery performance? As a dedicated landscape photographer, I get the impression the pixel shift piece may be viable for me in certain situations, but I tend to favor dynamic light and that changes second by second, so we'll see. The landscape photographer in me was hoping for a bigger megapixel count, for sure. If I knew for sure that an A9R was in the works and it was going to have the general performance of the A7RII but with lets say 65 + megapixels? That I'd shell out for without hesitation.
p.24 #11 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
Matt Grum wrote:
That's just not how it works though - if there was a standardised way of measuring dynamic range then sure I would trust the figure. But there, isn't so Sony stating the dynamic range as 15 stops is I'm afraid completely meaningless on it's own.
Dynamic range is the ratio between the brightest and darkest signals the sensor can capture. The brightest signal is easy to measure, that's just where the highlights clip. But how do you define the darkest signal the sensor can record? Is it the darkest text that's still readable? The darkest object that you can still recognise?
Ultimately most people choose some set signal-to-noise ratio figure and say when the SNR hits that value then that's the darkest thing we can record. But the choice of value is arbitrary, and different values give rise to different DR figures.
Sony haven't stated which SNR value they use. And they also haven't (as far as I can tell) stated what the DR of the A7RII is, so we can't tell either what the value is (in terms we can relate to) or what the improvement from the previous model is!
Yes, I take their "15 stops" as a relative number - thus whatever they stated for the A7RII for DR is now improved upon by the A7RIII. Though I assume this improvement is at base ISO as higher ISOs don't have nearly that amount of DR - that's likely obvious to most here, but I tend to state the obvious.
I'll take all the increased DR I can get out of the A7RIII. In practice I thought the A7RII was just a slight notch lower in real/usable DR than my D800 under the same shooting conditions and post-processing torture of the RAW files. I.e., I could get a better final image from my D800 than my A7RII, thus the reason the D800 was used on my long glass on a tripod where I'm usually light-level challenged. I know the measured numbers don't support this, but at the end of the day it's all about what you are able to achieve with the final image.
Looking forward to Dec. ~4 or so when the 3-day delivery should bring an early Holiday gift.
My wife always asks why I don't request any specific gifts for my birthday or Christmas - I always say that I buy my presents during the year and I don't need/want anything else
p.24 #12 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
Order placed. I do think this camera is significant. It corrects all that I was unhappy with in the A7RII. It may have corrected everything I was unhappy with every digital camera in the past 20 years. I was tired of "if you get this model, you get these features but not these" style of marketing. Everybody wanted the "bomb" camera that incorporated everything great. From what I'm seeing, Sony may very well be the company that is delivering that beautiful everything camera.
p.24 #13 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
Justin Stone wrote:
One thing I am concerned about is workflow and editing. As a Lightroom 6 user I am troubled by Adobe's play to get us to move to CC. Something I have no intention of doing. The a7r3 will not be covered by any updates to LR 6. I get that one can extrapolate this argument to any new cameras/lenses going forward, but in the short term, I don't have a solution to my editing and database needs if I leave LR 6... again, I'm not going to a subscription model as a hobbyist. I feel like I'm not ready for an upgrade when I have 30,000 images in my LR library that wont't be compatible with the new camera files.
I know there are workarounds, and I'm open to suggestions, but this gives me great pause about upgrading to a new body at this time before I have workflow figured out.
p.24 #15 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
Jochenb wrote:
I'm disappointed because I wanted a 24MP A7III.
After 2 years with the A7RII (sold it just in time) my personal conclusion was that I don't like the sterile look of a 42MP sensor. I prefer the look/tonality of sensors with bigger pixels.
I am in the same boat but for a different reason. The A7 MK1 or MK2 only needed better AF, Leica SL EVF specs and touch focus. Launching an R version first may show the world what theyre capable of and take the steam out of D850, but A7III launch should create a more even excitement because its more what most Photogs need and could afford..
Its about time Sony release medium and small size RAW,many want the latitude of RAW but not the full resolution..
p.24 #16 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
1. Aren't there still lingering issues with Sony's RAW file format still having some lossy-compression applied or did that get resolved with A9-generation?
2. What's third-party lens support like without using adapters for A9/A7 bodies? Can Sigma ART or Tamron's newer lenses be used here?
p.24 #17 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
Jack Thompson wrote:
I think for many of us the A7RII was such a massive leap, as was the A9. I must admit, I don't feel like the A7RIII has that same, "Holy COW!" draw to it as an A7RII owner, but I've no doubt the improvements will be pretty noticeable. The AF joystick, touch screen, improved viewfinder, faster AF, more frames per/sec and who couldn't use an extra stop of dynamic range, better IBS and better battery performance? As a dedicated landscape photographer, I get the impression the pixel shift piece may be viable for me in certain situations, but I tend to favor dynamic light and that changes second by second, so we'll see. The landscape photographer in me was hoping for a bigger megapixel count, for sure. If I knew for sure that an A9R was in the works and it was going to have the general performance of the A7RII but with lets say 65 + megapixels? That I'd shell out for without hesitation....Show more →
Yeah, no one better spec of the A7RIII made me place the pre-order. Rather it was the cumulative increase in capabilities/changes that made me hit the buy button:
- 1 stop better IBIS - hopefully this means it's even better for longer FLs
- Improved EVF
- An actually more useful electronic shutter mode - 14 bits and very likely improved sensor readout time (though not at the A9 level as they've stated). The anti-flicker thing could be very useful.
- A bit better DR
- Better button layout
- Seemingly improved sealing
- Better per-battery capacity
- Dual Card Slots
I didn't use apps at all so no great loss for me - I thought it was a klunky solution. Hopefully the remote/tethering solution is better than on the previous A7x series. Glad they kept the same # of MPs.
p.24 #18 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
MedicineMan404 wrote:
I'm staying put in this cycle.
Though the pixel shift (borrowed from their share in Olympus) can theoretically yield images of 160 mb uncompressed), my guess, has to be of extreme interest for landscapers!
The tried and true A7Rii will still do for landscapes and my a9 will do for something moving
But the A7Riii does look to be the glint in the eye for anyone wanting THE do everything body.
{on the pixel shift with the Oly it takes a 20ish mpx up to 40mb, so I'm simply thinking doubling the uncompressed raw 40mpx Sony output} I'm probably missing something on this and it only doubles to 80mpx ??
Pixel shift is good for static objects. For landscape use, you might find defects in the frame as wind will always move some foliage or water. DPR had illustrations in their k-1 review.
p.24 #19 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
My A7RII/100-400mm G/1.4TC's image quality improves when shooting at f/11 vs f/8, but I lose PDAF and I can't shoot action sports with CDAF. Of course, the A9 solves this problem by keeping PDAF active until f/11. Anyone know if the A7Riii can shoot PDAF at f/11?
Oct 26, 2017 at 10:27 AM
Steve Spencer Online • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.24 #20 · Pre-orders open! Sony A7R III and FE 24-105mm f/4 OSS lens!
slrl0ver wrote:
1. Aren't there still lingering issues with Sony's RAW file format still having some lossy-compression applied or did that get resolved with A9-generation?
2. What's third-party lens support like without using adapters for A9/A7 bodies? Can Sigma ART or Tamron's newer lenses be used here?
You can get compressed RAW which isn't lossless and can cause some specific issues or you can get uncompressed RAW that is of course doesn't lose anything. You can't get losslessly compressed RAW. Many people are not completely happy with this solution, but many are fine with it too.
Third party Canon lenses can be used with adapters on the Sony cameras. Sigma even makes its own adapter for the Sony E-mount and all the Sigma ART lenses work with that adapter. The adapter AF isn't quite as good as native AF, but it is quite good especially with the A9. The Sigma ART 135 f/1.8 adapted to the Sony seems to be a very popular choice as Sony doesn't have a similar lens yet.
