Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda

New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site

New Feature: SMS Notification alert

New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist

FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1 2 3 … 6

8 … 25 26 end

Archive 2017 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On

p.7 #1 · p.7 #1 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

DavidBM wrote:
So the element being in the 65 is good news because it suggests that CV have access to those or equivalent technology...

Although this is pure speculation, that makes sense David. Let's hope the 40/1.2's bokeh will be clean.

Sep 24, 2017 at 04:42 PM

DavidBM
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #2 · p.7 #2 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

Fred Miranda wrote:
Although this is pure speculation, that makes sense David. Let's hope the 40/1.2's bokeh will be clean.

Absolutely; just guessing based on the relatively clean results with the 65. I have no info about what tech CV do or don't have access to. (And we can't even be sure that the quality of the aspheres in the 40 is the same as in the 65. But we can hope!)

Sep 24, 2017 at 05:23 PM

serhan_
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #3 · p.7 #3 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

These are from last Feb show samples:
https://www.albedomedia.com/pruebas/voigtlander-nokton-40-mm-f12-toma-de-contacto/

It looks like it is similar to 65mm, eg no round bokeh after f1.2 and some artifacts in bokeh balls. I hope they have corrected it more since then.

Fred Miranda wrote:
Although this is pure speculation, that makes sense David. Let's hope the 40/1.2's bokeh will be clean.

Sep 24, 2017 at 05:27 PM

Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On

p.7 #4 · p.7 #4 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

serhan_ wrote:
These are from last Feb show samples:
https://www.albedomedia.com/pruebas/voigtlander-nokton-40-mm-f12-toma-de-contacto/

It looks like it is similar to 65mm, eg no round bokeh after f1.2 and some artifacts in bokeh balls. I hope they have corrected it more since then.

This is what I was afraid of when I saw the front element aspherical surfaces. I'd say worse than 65/2 with more visible 'onion ring' bokeh.
In comparison, the 35/1.7 Ultron has an aspherical element towards the rear and inner specular highlights are very clean.

_https://www.albedomedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Voigtlaender-Nokton-40mm-f1.2-Toma-Contacto-Con-20-FR-1024x683.jpg

Crop from image link above: 40mm f/1.2 FE @ f/1.2

Sep 24, 2017 at 05:36 PM

sebboh
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #5 · p.7 #5 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

^^ that doesn't look too bad considering the circumstances.

cv 35/1.2 also has quite noticeable onion rings.

Sep 24, 2017 at 05:46 PM

Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On

p.7 #6 · p.7 #6 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

sebboh wrote:
^^ that doesn't look too bad considering the circumstances.

cv 35/1.2 also has quite noticeable onion rings.

Which circumstances? Speed? (should not matter), Number and position of aspherical surfaces? (probably the culprit)

In comparison, the CV 35/1.7's bokeh is pretty much onion ring free. I believe it's because it only has on aspherical surface towards the very rear.

Sep 24, 2017 at 05:48 PM

sebboh
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #7 · p.7 #7 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

Fred Miranda wrote:
Which circumstances? Speed? (should not matter), Number and position of aspherical surfaces? (probably the culprit)

In comparison, the CV 35/1.7's bokeh is pretty much onion ring free. I believe it's because it only has on aspherical surface towards the very rear.

i meant the scene the image was taken of. many lenses would have much worse onion ringing in that shot.

for what it's worth, defects to the rear glass are usually much more visible in the final image than defects to the front element. i'd be surprised if onion rings were any different.

Sep 24, 2017 at 06:19 PM

DavidBM
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #8 · p.7 #8 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

Fred Miranda wrote:
This is what I was afraid of when I saw the front element aspherical surfaces. I'd say worse than 65/2 with more visible 'onion ring' bokeh.
In comparison, the 35/1.7 Ultron has an aspherical element towards the rear and inner specular highlights are very clean.

_https://www.albedomedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Voigtlaender-Nokton-40mm-f1.2-Toma-Contacto-Con-20-FR-1024x683.jpg

Ah well....actually I care more about the spherochromatism than the onion rings, but they aren't great.
Still not too bad at the image level, and the spherochromatism looks like it might clean up fairly easily in post.
And, most importantly, the overall rendering is unusually nice for a very fast moderate wide. Far from the funk fest one might fear,
But the jury is out,...(actually, all the evidence is not in and the jury are gathering)

Sep 24, 2017 at 06:23 PM

sebboh
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #9 · p.7 #9 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

here is the cv 35/1.2 diagram:
http://voigtlaender.com/images/35mm_f1_2_nokton_ii_lc.jpg
and here's a link to taylor sherman's bokeh ball image with that lens. note aspherics are toward the back. i've also seen a number of lenses with a rear aspheric that produce onion rings.

Sep 24, 2017 at 06:31 PM

DavidBM
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #10 · p.7 #10 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

They (the spanish mag from whom the samples come) seem to like its wide open contrast.

It does have a LOT of spherochromatism wide open, though, as I guess we have to expect for this speed and price point. It's also pretty glowy just outside the plane of focus.

But it does clean up with a bit of work and without resorting to layering different levels of correction in PS and blending...

That's sort of good news; if you can get OK results with quick and dirty playing with the dropper and sliders, it should be great when you pull out the stops for a favourite image.

Some of the other images though, show a LOT of spehrochromatism, which looks harder to clean: I haven't tried on the one I attach. I think this is close to MFD. But this ain't no APO, although it might still be useful to some....

APOLOGIES for the copyright claims, it's just my generic export protocol.
I hereby officially retract any implied copyright claim on these images...

picture camera just behind the plane of focus, no correction

The same, but with quick and dirty correction

significantly behind plane of focus close to MFD

Edited on Sep 24, 2017 at 06:54 PM · View previous versions

Sep 24, 2017 at 06:39 PM

jhinkey
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.7 #11 · p.7 #11 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

DavidBM wrote:
Ah well....actually I care more about the spherochromatism than the onion rings, but they aren't great.
Still not too bad at the image level, and the spherochromatism looks like it might clean up fairly easily in post.
And, most importantly, the overall rendering is unusually nice for a very fast moderate wide. Far from the funk fest one might fear,
But the jury is out,...(actually, all the evidence is not in and the jury are gathering)
These were shot a while ago and maybe they've polished their aspheric molds since then like Panasonic has done with some of their fast (42.5/1.2 PL) lenses:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2014/05/02/the-end-of-onion-ring-bokeh-panasonic-beats-the-curse-of-aspheric-lenses

One can always hope . . . .

I seem to recall the initial images from the 65/2 were not all that impressive

Sep 24, 2017 at 06:40 PM

Arka
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.7 #12 · p.7 #12 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

I'm with you. I'm much more interested in M mounts for use with the TAP adapter than e-mount MF. Plus, that thing looks enormous.

AGeoJO wrote:
Hm, very interesting, Fred. I am not sure since I am pretty happy with the first version of the CV 35mm f/1.2. I need to temper down my GAS. I have too many lenses already.

I used to think that fast smallish E-mount lenses would be great for the Sony E-mount cameras. But with the TAP, I kind like those lenses to be in the Leica-M mount to get the AF capability. Of course, the obvious drawback is the lack of exif data. And the market segment for the manual focus Leica-M mount lenses is larger than just strictly MF...Show more →

Sep 24, 2017 at 07:06 PM

Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On

p.7 #13 · p.7 #13 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

sebboh wrote:
i meant the scene the image was taken of. many lenses would have much worse onion ringing in that shot.

for what it's worth, defects to the rear glass are usually much more visible in the final image than defects to the front element. i'd be surprised if onion rings were any different.

I thought that imperfections in an element forward of the aperture would be more likely to show up in the blur disk.
Either way, as you've shown with the CV 35/1.2 optical design, this seems to be more complex than just the aspherical element(s) location. David has a good point that perhaps Cosina has a more advanced moulding process now.

Sep 24, 2017 at 07:13 PM

sychan
Offline
•
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #14 · p.7 #14 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

jhinkey wrote:
These were shot a while ago and maybe they've polished their aspheric molds since then like Panasonic has done with some of their fast (42.5/1.2 PL) lenses:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2014/05/02/the-end-of-onion-ring-bokeh-panasonic-beats-the-curse-of-aspheric-lenses

Since both the Ultron 35/1.7 and 65/2 Macro use aspherics and don't exhibit objectionable onion ring bokeh, I think its pretty good evidence that Cosina has been able to source the onion ring free lens molds.
They didn't label this lens an APO lens, so odds are you won't have onion bokeh, but you'll have color fringing.

Sep 24, 2017 at 08:50 PM

DavidBM
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #15 · p.7 #15 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

sychan wrote:
Since both the Ultron 35/1.7 and 65/2 Macro use aspherics and don't exhibit objectionable onion ring bokeh, I think its pretty good evidence that Cosina has been able to source the onion ring free lens molds.
They didn't label this lens an APO lens, so odds are you won't have onion bokeh, but you'll have color fringing.

It's not odds are: have a look at the samples a few posts box from the Spanish DSLR magazine! Unless they have changed it a lot, it's a bit of colour fringing festival...

Sep 24, 2017 at 08:53 PM

jhinkey
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.7 #16 · p.7 #16 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

See this for bokeh and lens design:

https://www.slideshare.net/siliconstudio/lenses-realtime-rendering-of-physically-based-optical-effect-in-theory-and-practice-siggraph-2015-course

Sep 24, 2017 at 09:25 PM

jhinkey
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On

p.7 #17 · p.7 #17 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

and this one too:

https://www.slideshare.net/siliconstudio/making-your-bokeh-fascinating-realtime-rendering-of-physically-based-optical-effect-in-theory-and-practice-siggraph-2015-course

Sep 24, 2017 at 09:32 PM

sebboh
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #18 · p.7 #18 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

DavidBM wrote:
They (the spanish mag from whom the samples come) seem to like its wide open contrast.

It does have a LOT of spherochromatism wide open, though, as I guess we have to expect for this speed and price point. It's also pretty glowy just outside the plane of focus.

these images actually make me more hopeful i'll like the lens...

Sep 25, 2017 at 11:33 AM

Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On

p.7 #19 · p.7 #19 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

sebboh wrote:
these images actually make me more hopeful i'll like the lens...

Could you elaborate on that? I'm not very excited after seeing those samples.

Sep 25, 2017 at 11:52 AM

sebboh
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.7 #20 · p.7 #20 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

Fred Miranda wrote:
Could you elaborate on that? I'm not very excited after seeing those samples.

the pattern of spherochromatism and SA looks closer to lenses i like (rokkor 58/1.2 and 50 lux pre-asph) than too lenses i don't like (canon FL 55/1.2 and loxia/zm 50/2). no way to tell for sure without shooting it in a range of different circumstances though, so i eagerly await your and Guys' testing.

i'm sure that won't be reassuring to the folks who want another 65/2 APO. personally, i have no interest in the 65/2 – it's the same size as my rokkor 58/1.2 and less useful (to me). what i want is a smaller version of my 58/1.2.

Sep 25, 2017 at 01:38 PM

1 2 3 … 6 7 8 … 25 26 end
FM Forums \| Sony Forum \| Join Upload & Sell 1 2 3 … 6 7 8 … 25 26 end

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.