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Archive 2017 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

Fred Miranda
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p.6 #1 · p.6 #1 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

sebboh wrote:
looks too sharp to me. i want more glow.

Wait, I thought you didn't like the Loxia 35.

Sep 23, 2017 at 03:54 PM

sebboh
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p.6 #2 · p.6 #2 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

Fred Miranda wrote:
Wait, I thought you didn't like the Loxia 35.

it has to be attractive glow.

any old glow won't do. zm 50/1.5 is good (rokkor 58/1.2 is better), loxia 35/2 is bad.

Sep 23, 2017 at 04:04 PM

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p.6 #3 · p.6 #3 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

sebboh wrote:
it has to be attractive glow.

any old glow won't do. zm 50/1.5 is good (rokkor 58/1.2 is better), loxia 35/2 is bad.

I thought you were a Leica glow fanboy.

Sep 23, 2017 at 04:07 PM

sebboh
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p.6 #4 · p.6 #4 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

Fred Miranda wrote:
I thought you were a Leica glow fanboy.

mandler knew how to do it right consistently. the f/1 noctilux and 80 lux are amazing.

Sep 23, 2017 at 04:11 PM

Steve Spencer
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p.6 #5 · p.6 #5 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

fsiagian wrote:
I see. The 65mm is big though. Thanks for the info.

Yes, but it is a macro. So that requires a big helicoid and an f/2 macro. There are no small f/2 macros even at 1:2 magnification which some might not call a macro.

Sep 23, 2017 at 05:26 PM

genji
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p.6 #6 · p.6 #6 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

sebboh wrote:
the 40mm is small, compare it to rangefinder f/1.2 lenses.

I was tempted to suggest that opinions about size and weight are becoming as subjective as those about bokeh until your post made me remember that my M-Hexanon 50/1.2 is only slightly lighter than the CV Nokton 40/1.2 (390g vs 420g) and takes even bigger filters (62mm instead of 58mm).

Sep 23, 2017 at 08:00 PM

sebboh
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p.6 #7 · p.6 #7 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

genji wrote:
I was tempted to suggest that opinions about size and weight are becoming as subjective as those about bokeh until your post made me remember that my M-Hexanon 50/1.2 is only slightly lighter than the CV Nokton 40/1.2 (390g vs 420g) and takes even bigger filters (62mm instead of 58mm).

don't forget to add the adapter length to your calculation of the length of your m-hexanon for how big it is on your sony camera.

Sep 23, 2017 at 09:02 PM

philber
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p.6 #8 · p.6 #8 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

I don't expect it to be perfect wide open, far from it. The size, weight and cost are not compatible with "great" wide open performance with high-resolution sensors (Zeiss design their lenses today with 80Mp in mind, and CV would have to be idiots to restrict their designs to this year's 42Mp) IMHO.
Look at what Leica charge for "great" performance from a small package, and no-one knows if these lenses are designed for very high resolution. The 40mm CV is sort of half-way beween rangefinder size and weight and DSLR. Way larger and heavier than a M Leica, but much smaller and lighter than a Milvus. And less than half the cost of either, more like one third. Either one thinks that Leica and Zeiss are ripping us off hugely, and that CV are the only "honest" guys in town, or that price difference translates into costs, and thus IQ.
What I hope for is that the weaknesses will be attractive (sort of, like Sebboh-glow, like DannyBurke-aberrations) rather than repulsive. Call me a pessimist, bring on the tar and feathers if I am wrong and it is close to impeccable at f:1.2, then I will be the first to cheer the lens and CV on with my money.

Sep 23, 2017 at 11:34 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.6 #9 · p.6 #9 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

philber wrote:
I don't expect it to be perfect wide open, far from it. The size, weight and cost are not compatible with "great" wide open performance with high-resolution sensors (Zeiss design their lenses today with 80Mp in mind, and CV would have to be idiots to restrict their designs to this year's 42Mp) IMHO.
Look at what Leica charge for "great" performance from a small package, and no-one knows if these lenses are designed for very high resolution. The 40mm CV is sort of half-way beween rangefinder size and weight and DSLR. Way larger and heavier than a M Leica, but much...Show more →

Their main gallery has only black and white images!

That tells me there is a chance axial CA won't be well corrected at wide apertures. Also, I just saw the lens optical design and it looks like there is an aspherical "front" element. That could translate to visible onion ring patterns in the specular highlights...I'm not sure what to think, other that it's a new design and I hope I'm dead wrong about what I wrote on this post.

Sep 23, 2017 at 11:45 PM

philber
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p.6 #10 · p.6 #10 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

Fred, you and I are not on the same page. You hope that the 2 new CVs "aren't that good" so that you can avoid buying them. I hope they "are that good" so that I can buy them and avoid buying the more expensive and heavier Milvus 35

Something tells me both of us won't be having our wishes and expectations granted at the same time

Sep 23, 2017 at 11:51 PM

Fred Miranda
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p.6 #11 · p.6 #11 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

philber wrote:
Fred, you and I are not on the same page. You hope that the 2 new CVs "aren't that good" so that you can avoid buying them. I hope they "are that good" so that I can buy them and avoid buying the more expensive and heavier Milvus 35

Something tells me both of us won't be having our wishes and expectations granted at the same time

I will say no more until there are more samples from it. Preferentially in color.

All things considered (size, speed, etc..), we could be surprised by another great lens. The CV 65/2 APO is superb!

Sep 23, 2017 at 11:56 PM

DavidBM
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p.6 #12 · p.6 #12 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

Fred Miranda wrote:
Their main gallery has only black and white images!

It's not just an aspherical front element, according to other info on their site it's a double asphere: has two aspherical surfaces (as does the other aspherical element in rear group, so thought there are only two aspherical elements, there are four aspherical surfaces) . That's pretty fancy for a lens of this class. What it means for onion rings and the rest I don't know. Interesting times.

Sep 24, 2017 at 01:06 AM

genji
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p.6 #13 · p.6 #13 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

sebboh wrote:
don't forget to add the adapter length to your calculation of the length of your m-hexanon for how big it is on your sony camera.

Hahah, totally forgot about the adapter, which also adds significantly to the weight because I use a VME Close Focus adapter with the M-Hexanon 50/1.2.

Sep 24, 2017 at 08:02 AM

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p.6 #14 · p.6 #14 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

DavidBM wrote:
It's not just an aspherical front element, according to other info on their site it's a double asphere: has two aspherical surfaces (as does the other aspherical element in rear group, so thought there are only two aspherical elements, there are four aspherical surfaces) . That's pretty fancy for a lens of this class. What it means for onion rings and the rest I don't know. Interesting times.

David,
It seems that the CV 65/2 APO shares the same 'double' aspherical lens surfaces. (even though only one element)

The lens diagram points to 'two' surfaces and the description as well:
"Enhanced high performance utilizing aspherical lens surfaces."

That makes me feel better because it's also located towards the front of the lens and I don't have much issue with onion rings with the 65/2 APO. (Although it's visible in some images)

Sep 24, 2017 at 11:11 AM

sebboh
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p.6 #15 · p.6 #15 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

genji wrote:
Hahah, totally forgot about the adapter, which also adds significantly to the weight because I use a VME Close Focus adapter with the M-Hexanon 50/1.2.

have you put any f/1.2 shots with that in the f/1.2 thread? i don't think i've ever seen much from that lens.

Fred Miranda wrote:
I thought you were a Leica glow fanboy.

sebboh wrote:
mandler knew how to do it right consistently. the f/1 noctilux and 80 lux are amazing.

thanks, now i've been looking at ebay at 75 lux auctions...

Sep 24, 2017 at 11:42 AM

Steve Spencer
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p.6 #16 · p.6 #16 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

sebboh wrote:
have you put any f/1.2 shots with that in the f/1.2 thread? i don't think i've ever seen much from that lens.

thanks, now i've been looking at ebay at 75 lux auctions...

The R 80 lux and the M 75 lux are an interesting comparison at this point. They are very similar optical designs, but the 75 is about 100 to 150 grams lighter depending on the model of the R lens. Of course the R lens needs a bigger adapter too so the difference on a Sony is even bigger. The R lens also seems to be a $1,000 to $1,200 cheaper if you can find one that hasn't been bought up by Leicagreatbuy which seems to be artificially inflating the price of the R lens (they seem to always have 8 or so of them and don't list them below $2,400). At that price difference I had a hard time justifying the M 75 lux, but maybe I am missing something. I would love the smaller size of the M 75, but the price difference was just too much for me. Also the R 80 lux covers the image circle of my Fuji GFX (making a 58 f/1 equivalent and a nice alternative to the 50 Noctilux), but I have heard that the M 75 does not cover the image circle of GFX. That made it an easy decision for me, but I would love to know if someone has actually tried the M 75 lux on a Fuji GFX and what they found. If the M 75 lux does cover the image circle of the GFX, then I might change my mind as the smaller size of the M 75 lux is appealing and if the prices were to converge, and they might, as there is a rumor of a new Leica M 75 f/1.2 coming out later this year or the early part of next year, then I would opt for the M 75. Of course the a new M 75 f/1.2 will likely be about $10,000 or perhaps even more (if the rumor is actually true) so it may not affect the price of the 75 lux and may even increase its price.

Sep 24, 2017 at 01:11 PM

sebboh
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p.6 #17 · p.6 #17 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

Steve Spencer wrote:
The R 80 lux and the M 75 lux are an interesting comparison at this point. They are very similar optical designs, but the 75 is about 100 to 150 grams lighter depending on the model of the R lens. Of course the R lens needs a bigger adapter too so the difference on a Sony is even bigger. The R lens also seems to be a $1,000 to $1,200 cheaper if you can find one that hasn't been bought up by Leicagreatbuy which seems to be artificially inflating the price of the R lens (they seem to always...Show more →

i shot the R 80 for a while and loved it's look, but the size was annoying and the focus throw was much too long to track my kids running around. the 75 lux fixes both those issues in theory... the price difference is pretty silly though.

Sep 24, 2017 at 03:09 PM

DavidBM
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p.6 #18 · p.6 #18 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

Fred Miranda wrote:
David,
It seems that the CV 65/2 APO shares the same 'double' aspherical lens surfaces. (even though only one element)

The lens diagram points to 'two' surfaces and the description as well:
"Enhanced high performance utilizing aspherical lens surfaces."

That makes me feel better because it's also located towards the front of the lens and I don't have much issue with onion rings with the 65/2 APO. (Although it's visible in some images)

Great!
I think the onion rings have nothing directly to do with the aspheres being aspheres; but rather that it's super hard to polish them to a fine degree without messing up the shape of the surface. Hence Sony's super moulding in "XA" aspheres that are smoother to start with and need less polish, or Panasonics expensive manual polishing to avoid the onion rings.

So the element being in the 65 is good news because it suggests that CV have access to those or equivalent technology...

Sep 24, 2017 at 03:59 PM

aeonsim
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p.6 #19 · p.6 #19 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

sebboh wrote:
looks too sharp to me. i want more glow.

A cheap UV filter and some vaseline can solve that problem for you!

Sep 24, 2017 at 04:22 PM

sebboh
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p.6 #20 · p.6 #20 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

aeonsim wrote:
A cheap UV filter and some vaseline can solve that problem for you!

:P

nah, totally different look.

Sep 24, 2017 at 04:26 PM

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