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Archive 2017 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

DavidBM
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p.17 #1 · p.17 #1 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

Juha Kannisto wrote:
Very nice review so far

Loving the portrait shots in your review especially, and the first set of flowers and kitchen.

I'm a bit surprised by the edge results at infinity as my impression on A9 is better from my limited testing so far, though based on cityscapes. Wondering if A7rII makes a lot of difference. I still have an A7r too (no version II) so I might do some quick infinity trials with that during the weekend to see if there's a clear difference with my lens.

Thanks Juha

Well the A7rII is a bit more demanding if you view at 100%; to really get a sense comparing the A9 you would need to down-res the A7rII file. Even up-rezzing the A9 file would give some comparability.

It is of course always possible that there are better copies out there, and that you have a better one, even though mine is centred. But the results are within my expectation given speed and size.

I do think, though I haven't tested it yet, that there is some FC at infinity, so it might be that some compromise focussing position could give better results overall.

Oct 06, 2017 at 05:26 AM

philip_pj
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p.17 #2 · p.17 #2 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

Very impressive character lens, thank you David for review thus far.

Oct 06, 2017 at 06:11 AM

twomblywhite
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p.17 #3 · p.17 #3 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

Frogfish wrote:
Another option is the Voigtlander VM-E Close Focus Adapter (125g) that I actually prefer to the TAP (which I carry but only use very rarely) unless I must have AF.

The problem with the VM-E adapter is that infinity cannot be reached when used with the CV 35/1.7 with 5m PCX filter and no one (to my knowledge) has figured out how to adjust for this. Guy looked for shims but didn't find any. I've been very interested in the lens but for this reason didn't pull the trigger yet.

Edited on Oct 06, 2017 at 07:23 AM · View previous versions

Oct 06, 2017 at 07:16 AM

Juha Kannisto
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p.17 #4 · p.17 #4 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

twomblywhite wrote:
The problem with the VM-E adapter is that infinity cannot be reached when used with the CV 35/1.7 and no one (to my knowledge) has figured out how to adjust for this. Guy looked for shims but didn't find any. I've been very interested in the lens but for this reason didn't pull the trigger yet.

It's only a problem when using specific front filter with 35/1.7 to counter field curvature, there's no problem reaching infinity with the adapter and the plain lens. I have them both and the adapter is actually thinner than some others so normally it allows going “over infinity“.

Oct 06, 2017 at 07:21 AM

twomblywhite
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p.17 #5 · p.17 #5 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

Juha Kannisto wrote:
It's only a problem when using specific front filter with 35/1.7 to counter field curvature, there's no problem reaching infinity with the adapter and the plain lens. I have them both and the adapter is actually thinner than some others so normally it allows going “over infinity“.

Yes, I should have been more specific. I corrected my post. If I decided to buy and use the CV 35/1.7 I would definitely be using it with the 5m PCX filter as the corner performance at infinity was greatly improved as shown by Fred and Guy's testing.

Edited on Oct 06, 2017 at 07:30 AM · View previous versions

Oct 06, 2017 at 07:26 AM

twomblywhite
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p.17 #6 · p.17 #6 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

philip_pj wrote:
Very impressive character lens, thank you David for review thus far.

+1. Thank you for the quick work and images. The portrait of your wife and dog has beautiful OOF rendering.

Oct 06, 2017 at 07:29 AM

Juha Kannisto
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p.17 #7 · p.17 #7 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

twomblywhite wrote:
Yes, I should have been more specific. I corrected my post. If I decided to buy and use the CV 35/1.7 I would definitely be using it with the 5m PCX filter as the corner performance was greatly improved as shown by Fred and Guy's testing.

Thanks! Yes, I believe the PCX filter would improve performance but personally I never wanted to play with those filters especially if it would require any modifications to the lens like removing shims... I've enjoyed the 35/1.7 even with the Field Curvature as it is great wide open for close-ups and also fine at inifinity at f8 even without a filter. Still I went for 40/1.2 as a more sensor-optimized solution but will keep the 35/1.7 as well.

Oct 06, 2017 at 07:35 AM

twomblywhite
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p.17 #8 · p.17 #8 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

Juha Kannisto wrote:
Thanks! Yes, I believe the PCX filter would improve performance but personally I never wanted to play with those filters especially if it would require any modifications to the lens like removing shims... I've enjoyed the 35/1.7 even with the Field Curvature as it is great wide open for close-ups and also fine at inifinity at f8 even without a filter. Still I went for 40/1.2 as a more sensor-optimized solution but will keep the 35/1.7 as well.

Thanks Juha! Very interesting to me because you have used both lenses intimately now. I was curious as to whether you would be keeping the 35/1.7 now that you got your new 40/1.2. So far, what do you feel are the unique characteristics of the 35/1.7 that make it worth holding onto?

Oct 06, 2017 at 07:50 AM

GMPhotography
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p.17 #9 · p.17 #9 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

From what I’m seeing this lens is more in tune with environmental type portraits and more heavy Bokeh looks. It’s not from what I can tell a replacement for the CV 35 1.7 with PCX but more a counterpart classic look type lens. It seems more setup to replace your FE 35 1.4 if you wanted manual focus and smaller foot print. But having said that a CV 35 1.7 without the PCX May come relatively close with better center sharpness but I think this 40 would still have better Bokeh. Now this means you really don’t care much about corners or even mid zone so much. Be a interesting comparison for the 40 and 35 without the PCX it’s possible the 35 May mimic the 40 somewhat. It’s worth a test just to see the difference

Bottom line from what I can tell it has a certain look to it and buy it for that look. Don’t buy it thinking it maybe a landscape type lens.

Obviously my comments are what we have seen so far, new owners here may find some interesting things with this lens.

Edited on Oct 06, 2017 at 08:34 AM · View previous versions

Oct 06, 2017 at 08:23 AM

Juha Kannisto
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p.17 #10 · p.17 #10 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

twomblywhite wrote:
Thanks Juha! Very interesting to me because you have used both lenses intimately now. I was curious as to whether you would be keeping the 35/1.7 now that you got your new 40/1.2. So far, what do you feel are the unique characteristics of the 35/1.7 that make it worth holding onto?

For one thing, it can be used with TAP to get AF, and it's razor-sharp wide open and I also like it a lot at f8 and I shot several photos with it over long period of time that I really like. I haven't used the 40/1.2 long enough to know how it compares in many different conditions and use cases. I think the 40/1.2 will be my "daily driver" from now but I still like the 35/1.7 a lot too.

For one thing the 35/1.7 is not very expensive and I probably wouldn't get that much trading it in (when I sell lenses it's usually as a trade-in to Map Camera). I also like to keep different sub-collections, like my M-mount set, and I often use different lenses depending on the mood of the day. 35/1.7 remains a key lens in my M-mount set (and pairs nicely with 50/1.5 Nokton VM).

Overall I don't mind having overlap in my lens collection and these both belong in my top 10 favorites. I have about 45 lenses overall, would be happy to trim down a bit but those that I wouldn't mind selling are also the same that have least trade-in value.

Oct 06, 2017 at 08:23 AM

GMPhotography
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p.17 #11 · p.17 #11 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

Juha Kannisto wrote:
For one thing, it can be used with TAP to get AF, and it's razor-sharp wide open and I also like it a lot at f8 and I shot several photos with it over long period of time that I really like. I haven't used the 40/1.2 long enough to know how it compares in many different conditions and use cases. I think the 40/1.2 will be my "daily driver" from now but I still like the 35/1.7 a lot too.

For one thing the 35/1.7 is not very expensive and I probably wouldn't get that much trading it in...Show more →

Im coming over after your closet. Lol

45 lenses my wife would have about 300 pairs of shoes I’d have to buy. Lol

Oct 06, 2017 at 08:25 AM

GMPhotography
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p.17 #12 · p.17 #12 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

Btw the TAP can work with the 35 1.7 and PCX but you have to hit the infinity mark very early on in the throw of the focusing. So if true infinity hit before the symbol on the lens and PCX on you still have some play in the lens so the TAP can work.

Suggestion here is having the PCX on with the K&F adapter on and your before or on the beginning of the infinity symbol there is a good chance the TAP may work. Than there is a chance it may not because even the K&F has variance in it. You really have to try it and see. But it’s a good clue if your hitting st the symbol than maybe worth the buying risk of the TAP. Unfortunately we live in the world of variance here.

I still think there is a way to adjust the TAP. I just don’t know how or tore it down. We would have to ask Tech Pro if it’s possible

Oct 06, 2017 at 08:32 AM

Juha Kannisto
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p.17 #13 · p.17 #13 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

GMPhotography wrote:
Im coming over after your closet. Lol

45 lenses my wife would have about 300 pairs of shoes I’d have to buy. Lol

Hehe

My wife is somehow tolerant to my lens shopping habits most of the time. I have basically around 15 native lenses, and close to 15 in M-mount (including LTM) and the rest are older Minolta and Pentax SLR lenses (some of the better ones but still not getting used much these days). I mostly enjoy using a mix of native and M-mount regularly. I've explored many 2nd hand camera and lens stores in Tokyo in the last 5 years or so...

Oct 06, 2017 at 08:54 AM

Frogfish
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p.17 #14 · p.17 #14 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

twomblywhite wrote:
Yes, I should have been more specific. I corrected my post. If I decided to buy and use the CV 35/1.7 I would definitely be using it with the 5m PCX filter as the corner performance at infinity was greatly improved as shown by Fred and Guy's testing.

Personally I find pixel peeping corners is over-rated for real world photography. Although I keep meaning to pick up the 5m PCX filter I haven't as yet and haven't found any poor enough corners that would cause me to throw away the image .. and the Voigt 35/1.7 is probably my most used lens. Of course there is always the 'shoot-wide and crop (away the corners)' school of thought too

Oct 06, 2017 at 09:01 AM

Fred Miranda
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p.17 #15 · p.17 #15 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

Frogfish wrote:
Another option is the Voigtlander VM-E Close Focus Adapter (125g) that I actually prefer to the TAP (which I carry but only use very rarely) unless I must have AF.

Details of minimum distances with various lenses can be found on Philip Reeve's review : https://phillipreeve.net/blog/review-voigtlander-vm-e-close-focus-adapter/

As someone else mentioned, there would have to be a really compelling reason to buy this over the 35/1.7 Ultron which, a year down the line, I am still in love with !

Unfortunately this adapter won't work with the CV 35/1.7 Ultron + 5m PCX. Basically you won't be able to reach infinity with the front-lens. (Or the Hawks for the same reason)

If you use the lens at closer distances, I'm sure it will work fine but you will get strong field curvature at all distances on Sony cameras.

Another issue with a close-focus adapter is that this lens does not perform well at closer distances than its MFD. I have to stop down to f/2.8 or f/3.2 to get acceptable results at 0.2 or 0.3m. (The lens native minimal focus distance is 0.5m)

Oct 06, 2017 at 09:13 AM

Fred Miranda
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p.17 #16 · p.17 #16 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

Frogfish wrote:
Personally I find pixel peeping corners is over-rated for real world photography. Although I keep meaning to pick up the 5m PCX filter I haven't as yet and haven't found any poor enough corners that would cause me to throw away the image .. and the Voigt 35/1.7 is probably my most used lens. Of course there is always the 'shoot-wide and crop (away the corners)' school of thought too

When shooting at wider apertures and focusing at mid-distance, your images' top corners will look sharp which could be distracting for your OOF background rendering. (This happens because of the induced field curvature caused by the Sony's sensor thicker stack). This will be visible even at web resized images.
When shooting at infinity distance, without the corrective PCX, corners will be out of focus which is noticeable even at 1:4 magnification (even stopping down the lens). Hardly pixel peeping.

If you really like this lens, I highly recommend getting the PCX for it. It's worth the $100 investment. It will allow this Ultron to work as designed. Amazing lens.

Oct 06, 2017 at 09:25 AM

twomblywhite
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p.17 #17 · p.17 #17 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

Thanks a lot for the comments Juha and Guy. I admit I'm throwing out pretty open-ended questions but I really appreciate the informed feedback, especially the subjective views as those are important to me. I also realize that this lens was just released so it will be fun to see and hear what people discover. Also, right now I can only afford to add a few lenses every so often so the decisions become a bit difficult/painful. I would love to just open a new cc and go to town.

Frogfish wrote:
Personally I find pixel peeping corners is over-rated for real world photography.

I agree and I'm definitely not promoting being over anal when reviewing images in real world shooting. But this isn't about real-world shooting it's about lens testing and evaluation. The corner improvement with the PCX filter is pretty dramatic and to deny that would be problematic for me personally.

Oct 06, 2017 at 09:28 AM

GMPhotography
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p.17 #18 · p.17 #18 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

To add we are really leveling the field curvature of the lens with the PCX so you don’t get that look as Fred is describing but making the lens more flat field. In the process your corners will match your mid zone better and center. Now wide open you still get nice fall off of OOF areas still. It’s really about correction of FC and in the process you get s more even sharpness across the frame

Oct 06, 2017 at 09:32 AM

GMPhotography
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p.17 #19 · p.17 #19 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

twomblywhite wrote:
Thanks a lot for the comments Juha and Guy. I admit I'm throwing out pretty open-ended questions but I really appreciate the informed feedback, especially the subjective views as those are important to me. I also realize that this lens was just released so it will be fun to see and hear what people discover. Also, right now I can only afford to add a few lenses every so often so the decisions become a bit difficult/painful. I would love to just open a new cc and go to town.

I agree and I'm definitely not promoting being over anal when...Show more →

Absolutely we are discussing lens characteristics here and we need to learn how things act to fit your style before you go spend money on glass that just won’t work for you. These are great discussions, I learn a lot from them. The key here is knowing what your buying before it shows up at your door. I’m getting a Loxia 21 and a Sony 24-70 F 4 today and on Monday my CV 28 comes but I know exactly what to expect that derives from these important discussions on how lenses look and act. This CV 40 looks great for certain types of shooting for sure and in those areas some positive qualities but you have to decide if that’s a good buy given your style of shooting. I try to help the best I can from my experiences but I depend on the engineers and scientists to give the backend qualities as well. If we all help each other than that’s what a photo community should be about. I’m a big cheerleader for that

Oct 06, 2017 at 09:42 AM

Juha Kannisto
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p.17 #20 · p.17 #20 · The Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.2 FE is coming!

I posted a few post-processed shots with the A9 + Nokton 40/1.2 here, including some new ones from this evening in the rain reflections and some from yesterday:

https://plus.google.com/+JuhaKannisto/posts/B1ex8n13ntp

Oct 06, 2017 at 10:33 AM

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