p.65 #1 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Paul Mo wrote:
Clueless masses who are not interested in furthering their discipline. Mmmm...
Yes. Many, really many of my friends, their families, are starting to treat DSLR as a nice, all-problem-solving, replacement for their point and shoot. And they buy it with some kit lens. When I talk to those ppl, they have no intention to buy external flash, nor any other lens. I run a studio and I let ppl shoot in my studio. I know what equipment they are coming with. Sometimes, I let them shoot with my gear instead, just for free.
Well, not sure FF (even with the entry level of 6DII) is in that category though. But as economic situation is getting better, I can hear some ppl starting to swear the FF mantra. But once again - I am not sure if those ppl will ever invest in another 2-3 lenses ...
p.65 #2 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Ralph Conway wrote:
The last testresults seem to show, that 6D IIs ISO 12K and higher catches up with 5D IV and maybee 1DX II.
They don't show anything, because the methodology isn't properly explained, the tests aren't normalised (same shutter speed for every camera), there is only one light source type, and its white point isn't specified. You'll have to wait for DPreview's full high ISO tests to get a clearer picture of the 6DII's high ISO noise performance.
p.65 #3 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
charlyw wrote:
What of the current feature set of the 6DII would you have sacrificed to get that? 4 FPS instead of 6.5? No articulated screen? No Wifi? No GPS? No touchscreen? Sorry, Canon looked at the figures and struck a balance - you don't like the balance, tough luck.But many will like the feature set as it is and DR is only a very very minor concern outside the hard core forums. Only a few very vocal protagonists tout that it's the end of Canon - but it won't, the camera will sell because of the features it provides - and those buyers will care little about that nats' wing of DR that they never use... ...Show more →
Balance? Just :-) Why should you sacrifice just anything from the above list? In fact, Canon should add stupid headphone jack they have even on the 80D, USB3, sensor of the 5DIV level minus the resolution, and they would still have a different league product to 5DIV.
p.65 #4 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
charlyw wrote:
What of the current feature set of the 6DII would you have sacrificed to get that? 4 FPS instead of 6.5? No articulated screen? No Wifi? No GPS? No touchscreen? Sorry, Canon looked at the figures and struck a balance - you don't like the balance, tough luck.But many will like the feature set as it is and DR is only a very very minor concern outside the hard core forums. Only a few very vocal protagonists tout that it's the end of Canon - but it won't, the camera will sell because of the features it provides - and those buyers will care little about that nats' wing of DR that they never use... ...Show more →
Given it has pretty much the EXACT SAME feature set as the 80D just a larger sensor and twice the price I think they could have offered a better sensor.
It wont hurt me, I've other cameras I will buy. Tough luck canon.
And btw I've actually spend a fair amount of time with the 6d2...
The absolute very last thing I want sacrificed is image quality.
p.65 #7 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
RobDickinson wrote:
Given it has pretty much the EXACT SAME feature set as the 80D just a larger sensor and twice the price I think they could have offered a better sensor.
It wont hurt me, I've other cameras I will buy. Tough luck canon.
And btw I've actually spend a fair amount of time with the 6d2...
The absolute very last thing I want sacrificed is image quality.
It's not even as good as that, it lacks a few features that the 80d has like the headphone jack and All-I compression, so makes even less sense if you want to take advantage of the dpaf and flip screen for video. It doesn't even make that good a b cam for a 5d4 with only IBP.
It will still be a good camera for many, but for myself (and many others on the internet it seems), canon look to have missed the balance for 2017, and not really by just a small amount. Now if it started at $1300-1500, I could see the balance being more even
p.65 #8 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
charlyw wrote:
Because it's an entry level camera - and something needs to give.
By this logic the Hasselblad X1D, Pentax 645z and Fuji GFX50s should all have outdated sensors with 2012 level performance in them because they are the "entry level cameras" too right?
Canon 6DII is the cheapest current-model FF camera Canon offer but this does not equal "entry level" any more than the above MF cameras are entry level cameras.
p.65 #9 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Ferrophot wrote:
I cannot agree with the statements that if you have to push shadows then you must have mucked up the exposure. Being able to push shadows to reveal more detail is one of the great benefits of digital photography. Maybe what some people shoot doesn't require pushing shadows or under exposing to preserve highlights but I do it often, especially shooting in overcast conditions or in large cavernous places like railway terminals. Having this flexibility turns oh-hum shots into magic and requires fine attention to exposure. As for dappled light the art is not to remove the dappled shadows but to reduce the effect. More dynamic range helps in all these situations, as does the pushability of shadows. If the 6DII enables shadows to be pushed a bit more, thus maybe increasing the quality of lesser pushes then that is a good thing....Show more →
Late coming to this party but one issue I have with this comment is when do you push 5 stops?
The oft-quoted example is shooting into a sunset and getting detail in nearby rocks- I want enough detail to show they are rocks and not have it completely blocked out. The most I ever recall pushing to do that is 2 stops and any more than that and it looks artificially bright. If I needed 5 or 6 stops it means I totally screwed up.
p.65 #10 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
charlyw wrote:
Sorry, those that develop further into "photo discipline" are those that don't need that headline figure "DR" - because they develop further into photography and they then know how little gains there are in this... It's important for those that have given up on photography!
What a crock lol! Dynamic range is about the scene in front of you, not your skill, unless you're relighting or using HDR. However, a photographer realises that both of those bring their own problems in certain circumstances.
And while I'm here, let me help you back onto your high horse..
p.65 #11 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Mikehit wrote:
Late coming to this party but one issue I have with this comment is when do you push 5 stops?
The oft-quoted example is shooting into a sunset and getting detail in nearby rocks- I want enough detail to show they are rocks and not have it completely blocked out. The most I ever recall pushing to do that is 2 stops and any more than that and it looks artificially bright. If I needed 5 or 6 stops it means I totally screwed up.
It isn't about arbitrarily pushing files 2, 3, or a billion stops. A file from a D750 will always be cleaner than one from a 6DII, whether it's pushed 2, 3 or 5 stops. Whether that's significant or not depends on various factors, such as what you want to do with the image (if it's to make large prints it may matter to you for example), or the relative size of the parts of the image that have been significantly pushed.
p.65 #12 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Mikehit wrote:
Late coming to this party but one issue I have with this comment is when do you push 5 stops?
The oft-quoted example is shooting into a sunset and getting detail in nearby rocks- I want enough detail to show they are rocks and not have it completely blocked out. The most I ever recall pushing to do that is 2 stops and any more than that and it looks artificially bright. If I needed 5 or 6 stops it means I totally screwed up.
OMG when will people get this lol!
It's not about pushing the exposure 5-6 stops - it's about having the flexibility to push the shadows as much as you need to - either globally or locally - in a single exposure in order to achieve the lighting detail you need, where you need it.
p.65 #13 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
RobDickinson wrote:
Given it has pretty much the EXACT SAME feature set as the 80D just a larger sensor and twice the price I think they could have offered a better sensor.
It is a better sensor by virtue of being a FF sensor. When you expand a picture to a given size, expanding it more affects many areas of image quality including (as far as I know, but may be wrong) perceived dynamic range.
Now this may be irrelevant to the image size/medium you use but it is an improvement.
p.65 #14 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
PhilDrinkwater wrote:
OMG when will people get this lol!
It's not about pushing the exposure 5-6 stops - it's about having the flexibility to push the shadows as much as you need to - either globally or locally - in a single exposure in order to achieve the lighting detail you need, where you need it.
I do get it. What makes you think I don't?
And my question was when do you need to use this 5-stop push? As a matter of interest, the balcony photo you posted - what was the shadow push there?
The design point many are making is that if a true 5-stop push is needed very rarely then in Canon marketing terms a 5-stop push is low down the list of priorities and that will affect the approach of the design team.
If many, many people need a 5-stop push then I am pretty sure they will design a sensor to suit.
A parallel argument has been how important having dual card slots is for a pro using a body. Yet the recent Nikon release has removed dual slot when its predecessor had it. Which suggests all these claims about the vital nature of dual cards is overblown in that sector of the market. I see this DR argument in the same vein.
p.65 #15 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
The issue, again, is that the 6d2 produces results with less DR than even the 6D, and cannot even come close to the SL2, a $500 rebel, also released the same time. Has nothing to do with what we perceive to be the priorities of photographers.....
p.65 #16 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Mikehit wrote:
I do get it. What makes you think I don't?
And my question was when do you need to use this 5-stop push? As a matter of interest, the balcony photo you posted - what was the shadow push there?
The design point many are making is that if a true 5-stop push is needed very rarely then in Canon marketing terms a 5-stop push is low down the list of priorities and that will affect the approach of the design team.
If many, many people need a 5-stop push then I am pretty sure they will design a sensor to suit.
A parallel argument has been how important having dual card slots is for a pro using a body. Yet the recent Nikon release has removed dual slot when its predecessor had it. Which suggests all these claims about the vital nature of dual cards is overblown in that sector of the market. I see this DR argument in the same vein. ...Show more →
"If I needed 5 or 6 stops it means I totally screwed up."
^^ that bit.
It's not about the amount of push, it's about the amount of dynamic range that you need for a scene. Taking a photo which needs 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 20, 30 stops (maybe 30 is too much ) of dynamic range isn't a screw it - it's about the scene in front of you and your vision.
That shot was about 3 stops max I think, from memory. I needed to do a lot of work in the shadows and it still looked messy at 100%.
Your point has changed. I can agree with this new point - although I disagree with the priority of it. For me it's about sales and unnecessary crippling to push people up the range, which canon have been well known for doing through their history.
The 5d4 lacking spot metering being linked to AF point is a good example of this. It's a very relevant feature for a portion of the target market, but they want you to move to a 1d, but I don't want a 1d primarily for weight reasons.
They're not servicing the market. Slowly people will move to alternatives who will, especially in the pro market which does take advantage of these kinds of features. Losing the pro market would be a very bad decision for canon since dslr sales are generally reducing among amateurs already.
p.65 #17 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
TeamSpeed wrote:
The issue, again, is that the 6d2 produces results with less DR than even the 6D, and cannot even come close to the SL2, a $500 rebel, also released the same time. Has nothing to do with what we perceive to be the priorities of photographers.....
If it turns out to be true that the 6D2 has these DR restrictions it will be a huge step back for Canon who have only just caught up with cameras like the 80D.
I won't be at all surprised if there is some kind of recall or second product run (Like Nikon and it's shutters) if the problem really exists that much.
Canon always know what they are doing but occasionally they do slip up, maybe this is one occasion.
Personally I wouldn't be buying an early 6D2 that's for sure
p.65 #18 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
dhphoto wrote:
If it turns out to be true that the 6D2 has these DR restrictions it will be a huge step back for Canon who have only just caught up with cameras like the 80D.
I won't be at all surprised if there is some kind of recall or second product run if the problem really exists that much.
Canon always know what they are doing but occasionally they do slip up, maybe this is one occasion.
Personally I wouldn't be buying an early 6D2 that's for sure
There is no "if" : it is a little bit worse indeed than the 6D at base ISO (on par with the 5DIII, but - and that's a big difference - without much banding). You can already play with Dpreview files. At higher ISOs so far it's impossible to have an exact answer (only DPreview tests eliminate a number of variables the others don't).
That being said, I'm fairly certain that you won't see a recall or anything of the kind. That's it : that's Canon $2000 FF DSLR for the next couple of years at least (and most likely more).
The next opportunity for Canon to provide a FF camera at a price lower than the 5DIV with comparable DR performances might be Canon's FF mirrorless camera.
p.65 #19 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
MayaTlab wrote:
That being said, I'm fairly certain that you won't see a recall or anything of the kind. That's it : that's Canon $2000 FF DSLR for the next couple of years at least (and most likely more).
I'd agree with that. Canon don't do that kind of thing unless it's serious. I think the last one I remember was the fairly serious 1d3(?) AF issues.
p.65 #20 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
PhilDrinkwater wrote:
OMG when will people get this lol!
It's not about pushing the exposure 5-6 stops - it's about having the flexibility to push the shadows as much as you need to - either globally or locally - in a single exposure in order to achieve the lighting detail you need, where you need it.
For that I wouldn't ever need to push the shadows - because they are the shadows, they define the subject but do not contain it... Even in those film days everybody and his dog were using Fuji Velvia 50 - which had practically less than half the dynamic range (if you had something yellow in the frame even less) than the 6D II and there were plenty of "better" alternatives. Everywhere you went, the one film you could count on being sold out was Velvia 50 with the "better" film (by your reasoning) being in ample stock... And if you ask anyone who used that film the reason was the "pop" that this gave to your photos.
Interestingly the travel photographer whose interview is currently featured at DPreview has an interesting technique. to make his photos look good: Crush the shadows to black. And I agree, most of the time detail in the shadows is annoyingly distracting from the subject - only if you fail to identify your subject and subsequently fail to guide the viewers eyes towards it then the shadows do get noticed - but to get there the photo has to have failed on mutiple levels first... The shadows are the supporting act, if the noise and detail in them starts to get noticed then you have a problem much as if the support singer outshines the diva you know that there will be trouble brewing - with only one of the two leaving the building unscathed...
:-) Why should you sacrifice just anything from the above list? In fact, Canon should add stupid headphone jack they have even on the 80D, USB3, sensor of the 5DIV level minus the resolution, and they would still have a different league product to 5DIV.
) of dynamic range isn't a screw it - it's about the scene in front of you and your vision.