p.50 #1 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
artsupreme wrote:
I would highly suggest a used 5DIII. It will save you money and it's a much better value with dual slots, build, shutter speed, better shutter, 100% viewfinder, better AF array, etc...
Find a "like new" used body and enjoy.
Nah,, 5Ds is a better camera than 5D3 is a lot of areas not just sensor. Sensor has no banding, shadows DR is better, can push them 1EV more, AF is a better IMO probably due to dual digics, metering is better, you get features from the 1DX for Auto ISO and M mode, it has intervalometer and of course massively better IQ and high ISO noise is no worse when resampled to 20-24MP and shows more detail. Easy to downsample images if 50MP is not needed. Only downside slower buffer clear and bit smaller buffer. IMO 5Ds(R) rendered 5D3 obsolete.
p.50 #2 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
myaeroplace wrote:
Well, after all my earlier talk of sticking with the 6D2 because of the flippy screen, I decided to pull the plug on my preorder and snag a refurbished 5DIV from Canon this morning. It was a really hard call, and time will tell if I made the right choice.
How can that not be a good decision? The 5D IV is a fine camera.
"Canon 6D Mark II dynamic range falls behind modern APS-C cameras"
What a disappointment, though not unexpected sadly.
Looking at the 6ev push sample at ISO 100, the 6Dc looks better by a noticeable amount.
Canon must be really afraid they don't have enough tech advancements to last them through the future years. Trying to roll them out as slowly as possible to keep a steady sales pace. If they put everything they have into their cameras now, then they are going to be screwed for years to come after that.
p.50 #8 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Well, all this is so unbelievable, that I wonder what happens next. If we are lucky, Canon gets devastated in reviews and also by coming upgrades of competing brands, that we might see 6DIII in one year.
But knowing Canon and their capability to sell to the masses, they might be lucky to turn 6DII into the sales success anyway, so I doubt 6DIII happens anytime soon ...
p.50 #9 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
I've no doubt that the 6D II will sell, but the reversion to 70D/7D II-level technology is certainly a surprise. I don't imagine anyone thought that they'd put DPAF in a full-frame camera and not use on-sensor ADCs, but here we are.
p.50 #11 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
So I been playing around with the image comparison tool on DPR and I found something I found interesting. Now I have a 1440p 27" monitor so this may look different on some peoples displays, but to me the 6D2 has the sharpest detail out out all 4. I would defitnely say the other 3 have slightly less noise, but the noise on the 6D2 isn't bad and is easily fixable.
Am I crazy or does the 6D2 really have the best detail?
Jul 20, 2017 at 06:21 AM
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p.50 #12 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Dlee13 wrote:
So I been playing around with the image comparison tool on DPR and I found something I found interesting. Now I have a 1440p 27" monitor so this may look different on some peoples displays, but to me the 6D2 has the sharpest detail out out all 4. I would defitnely say the other 3 have slightly less noise, but the noise on the 6D2 isn't bad and is easily fixable.
Am I crazy or does the 6D2 really have the best detail?
I think you are crazy
Actually "sharper" details produced by 6DII are an impact of higher noise level that makes details look sharper or introduces fake "details" that are just noise grains. It's a common issue. That's it.
p.50 #13 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Try it on something that isn't printed. Cards and labels are hard to decide this. Try the hair for example. The noise is higher on the 6D2 vs 5D4, and once you clean up that noise, you are going to lose detail, so at a minimum it is a wash, but as you pull more and more, it will be much worse for the 6D2. +3EV is really a mess with the 6D2.
I wonder what lens was used too. As you compare the corners of the scenes, the 6D2 starts to get really fuzzy, where the 5D4 isn't. Not sure what to make of that.
Also, unfortunately, the scene changes from release to release, lighting could be off, the scene changes. For example there is a peacock feather there for the Sony and 6D2, but isn't there for the 5D4. So slight changes from one model to another as they were shot back in history could make things a bit off too.
"Canon 6D Mark II dynamic range falls behind modern APS-C cameras"
What a disappointment, though not unexpected sadly.
Looking at the ISO invariance chart ... switch out to the include the 80D, 5D4 and 1DX II rather at "push vs. straight" options @ 6400. If our goal is the best IQ for the amount of available light which we have to work with, I'm gonna take the 6D II @ 6400 over any of the other three at 6400, or any of the other three with a push.
Granted, that's not the same as saying that you're gonna get the same kind of result from taking an ISO 100 shot and raising it 5 or 6 EV. That approach is downright fugly.
Take a look at the 6D II vs. the D750 while pushing ... the noise of the D750 looks cleaner, but it also looks softer (pre-baked NR ??).
Also, switch out the the 6D II and the D750 to both at 0 EV push, and see how things look. Again, that isn't the issue of lifting shadows ... but if you're truly oriented to achieving the goal of IQ, then I think that either going with the higher ISO or letting in more light delivers preferable (or at least equitable) results.
What we don't see here (yet) is how the D750 +3 EV compares to the 6D II at an equitable native ISO. Given what I see in these two (native 6400 & native 0 EV), I'm thinking that the equitable native 6D II is going to provide superior IQ over the D750 + 3EV.
My take away ... if you eat, live, breathe and die by the ability to extremely lift your shadows ... this is probably NOT the tool for you. However, if you are looking for a camera that takes clean images at different ISO settings, then that's a different matter.
So, while there is much disappointment in the "I can't ratchet my shadows to heavens and back" via ISO-invariance pushing camps ... I'm diggin' what I'm seeing so far.
p.50 #15 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Well, now all cards are open and IQ of 6DII production units is evaluated (by DPR at least).
The sensor is not bad at all yet worse than its predesessor in DR (and pushability). Thanks God or thanks Canon, it doesn't show banding
Pushing shadows at base ISO gives quite acceptable results. And considering selective NR and masking are even more so.
If someone is interested in result of applying selective NR I made a small demo psd file with different layers. It is an original underexposed raw file (ISO 100) from 6DII sample gallery on DPR that I converted in ACR in 16-bit/AdobeRGB mode, did all manupulations and then converted to 8-bit/sRGB for less weight.
It contains an original image (non pushed - layer 1), a pushed variant (layer 2) with evident noise esp. in shadows, a version for mask with less push adjustments (layer 3 - swithched off) and last the pushed version with NR and mask applied (the top layer).
So you may download the file, upzip it and judge yourself.
p.50 #16 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
-pekr- wrote:
Well, all this is so unbelievable, that I wonder what happens next. If we are lucky, Canon gets devastated in reviews and also by coming upgrades of competing brands, that we might see 6DIII in one year.
But knowing Canon and their capability to sell to the masses, they might be lucky to turn 6DII into the sales success anyway, so I doubt 6DIII happens anytime soon ...
We can only hope... Part of me wishes that they took the 6D2 and did a 6Ds version, with a 40+ mp sensor featuring their latest and greatest in DR and the feature set of the 6D2. And priced it right inbetween the 6D and 5D4. Of course I know that wont happen.
And the cynical part of me says that this camera will probably sell extremely well and since sales are the most important thing, Canon will continue to make decisions like this in the future because they obviously can and still continue to get sales.
All I know is that after seeing all this, my decision has been made and I will not be purchasing this camera. At least not at current prices. And then I will have to give it a long hard thought by the time it comes down to current 6D prices as I am sure something else will be on the horizon by then.
And yes I know I sound all doom and gloom, but I know that this camera will still take excellent pictures. But DR at low ISO is important enough for me and how I work my images that having it essentially be the same as (or actually worse than) my current 6D is a major factor in my purchasing decision, and makes it so that I just cannot justify the full price of this camera to myself.
p.50 #17 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
TeamSpeed wrote:
Try it on something that isn't printed. Cards and labels are hard to decide this. Try the hair for example. The noise is higher on the 6D2 vs 5D4, and once you clean up that noise, you are going to lose detail, so at a minimum it is a wash, but as you pull more and more, it will be much worse for the 6D2. +3EV is really a mess with the 6D2.
I wonder what lens was used too. As you compare the corners of the scenes, the 6D2 starts to get really fuzzy, where the 5D4 isn't. Not sure what to make of that.
Also, unfortunately, the scene changes from release to release, lighting could be off, the scene changes. For example there is a peacock feather there for the Sony and 6D2, but isn't there for the 5D4. So slight changes from one model to another as they were shot back in history could make things a bit off too....Show more →
When I checked most areas I could see, the 6D2 seemed to have the most detail. For me, the most I would never push am I an image more than 2 stops (I think I rarely even push 2 steps if that, I always try to expose right in camera) so I didn't really look at any higher pushes for real world use.
To me they should use something like a Sigma 35mm Art since it comes in all mounts and would give the same lens properties.
p.50 #18 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Curious to learn how the highlight recovery & NR will be. By that, I mean that there are those situations where we are approaching DR and low light challenging scenes by safeguarding the highlights and lifting shadows. I wonder to what degree we might "invert" this and approach from the other end.
We won't know how well it fares, till we try ... but it strikes me that the 6D II is going to play very nice with auto ISO, since it seems to perform well at the native ISO (seeing 6400 & 100 so far). Again, it doesn't seem to be the ticket for the mega-lift crowd, but it seems to be looking good otherwise if you aren't trying to push it around a lot. Pull and NR ... TBD how that factors into a workflow strategy.
p.50 #19 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
RustyBug wrote:
Looking at the ISO invariance chart ... switch out to the include the 80D, 5D4 and 1DX II rather at "push vs. straight" options @ 6400. If our goal is the best IQ for the amount of available light which we have to work with, I'm gonna take the 6D II @ 6400 over any of the other three at 6400, or any of the other three with a push.
Really? I see very slight differences with the ISO 6400, while you make it sound, like 6DII would be light years ahead of the rest :-) We should imo compare the whole package and the 6DII is simply a big disappointment and hence does not deliver, unless you know exactly well, what kind of shooting you want it for, no?
I really see no point spending 2K USD for the sensor characteristics identical to 5 years old machine, moreso, if it is going to be replaced in another 5 years. No excuses here and flippy screen along with the better AF will not just make it. Heck, the chip has identical graph characteristics as 9 years old 5DII. Of course I know the graph does not tell all the story, but ....
Cancelled my preorder just few hours ago. We might opt for the 5DIV instead and postpone our planned Canon 24-70/2.8 II purchase half a year. In the meantime, we will see new contenders compared (Sigma, Tamron) and there are also rumours about 24-70/2.8 III coming at the end of the year along with image stabilisation.
p.50 #20 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Light years ahead ... no. Equitable or better (i.e. splittin' hairs), yes.
For me, it goes like this ... I'm not cancelling my pre-order. I'll put it through the paces and see how it plays in Peoria. If it doesn't work for me, I can always return it.
Personally, I'm not a big shadow lifter. I tend to expose for what I want exposed per the EV amount of light provided. That's how I tend to shoot. Need more light ... I have aperture, time at my disposal. Those two don't cut it, time for more ISO (which this looks to do very nicely and seemingly better than pushing).
Something about getting the right amount of light seems to present optimal IQ moreover than pushing does. One thing I'm pretty sure of ... it'll shoot ISO 6400 better than my SLR/C.
The other thing ... we haven't had a chance yet to develop revised workflows that can harness the refined noise pattern. Once we do, we may learn that it pushes better than originally shown. That's not to suggest it will ever be a Mega-Push Monster ... just that I'm not tossing the baby out with the bathwater over the issue of DR.
