p.46 #3 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Tom_W wrote:
One of two things is happening here - either the 6D2 is using the same basic sensor technology (and production equipment perhaps) as the original 6D, in which case it will be about the same in terms of DR. Or, the pre-production models or files were not quite the same as production bodies, in which case the difference will be a lot like 5D3 -> 5D4.
Yup, that' my guess at the crux of how it's gonna play out. Worst case, it's like the 6D. Best case, better than 80D.
Flip a coin at the moment ... although most folks seem to be doubting anything will be diff, while a few are still hoping that reality will defy what we've been shown so far.
But, going back to pg. 33 (while looking for the CR2 links referenced above), this caught my attention.
lighthound wrote:
Canon facebook statement is that the 6DII is in fact the SAME sensor generation as the 5DIV and their own words, "the image quality will be similar to the EOS 5D Mark IV."
p.46 #4 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
RustyBug wrote:
Yup, that' my guess at the crux of how it's gonna play out. Worst case, it's like the 6D. Best case, better than 80D.
Flip a coin at the moment ... although most folks seem to be doubting anything will be diff.
But, going back to pg. 33 (while looking for the CR2 links referenced above), this caught my attention.
Anyone have a link to that quote or any others claiming that its the same generation sensor as the 5D4? And even assuming it is, does that really tell us anything about IQ?
Anyways, this whole thing is a mess, I am glad I cancelled my preorder. Not because I think the camera will be bad (far from it) but because I just want to wait for final reviews so I can make the best possible decision about whether the full price cost is worth it to me over my current 6D.
My gut is telling me that its unlikely that the production camera would be a massive improvement over a preproduction camera. I just cant imagine they could magically increase the DR as much as we hoped with a firmware update, and the hardware has to have been finalized some time ago. I still have some hope, but I personally dont think its likely.
Still would really like the tilty flippy screen, the new viewfinder, the new mode 2 gps, the AF system (mainly for f/8 focusing so I could get a teleconverter for my 100-400), the new live view dpaf functionality, and the extra 6mp would be nice. Those are the big things for me, just not sure that without a DR increase its worth the asking price, afterall, the 6D still works like a champ.
p.46 #5 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Not sure how to deep link to FB posts, but I found this on the Canon UK FB page in a comment replying to a question:
"In terms of image quality, the sensor in the EOS 6D Mark II is from the same generation as the EOS 5D Mark IV, rather than EOS 5D Mark III, so the image quality will be similar to the EOS 5D Mark IV. There will be differences in certain shooting conditions but if its better, will probably come down to personal preferences."
p.46 #6 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
RobDickinson wrote:
Unfortunately my canon contact is in serious trouble over this.
It's probably safe to assume that you'll be proffered an NDA alongside any future pre-production hardware. I expect he's getting in trouble for not doing that this time?
With luck this will all turn out to be a storm in a teacup, but no manufacturer wants a product getting a lot of negative press before launch. It impacts first day sales quite a lot, and even if the criticism is undeserved it can hang around and taint the product with a poor reputation for it's whole life. It is also very difficult for them to defend against just before the product launches. And of course if the product really is flawed, it is too late for them fix it and they get to look forward to a potential flop.
p.46 #8 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
RobDickinson wrote:
Unfortunately my canon contact is in serious trouble over this.
If your DR results are going to be confirmed, then it is something Canon fully deserves. They simply speculated on the "first day" (preorder) sales, before ppl can read reviews and decide eventually otherwise. Maybe next time we get better treatment (product), or maybe not (judging upon the product feature "arrogancy" we get from Canon).
I am sorry for your contact though, especially in the case when DR is going to be found on par with the 5DIV. We will see quite shortly - users on DPR are reporting as receiving first cameras on friday, one of them claims special channel sale tomorrow. We will surely see first production camera RAWs being posted in 2-3 days.
p.46 #10 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
onthebubblephoto wrote:
Not sure how to deep link to FB posts, but I found this on the Canon UK FB page in a comment replying to a question:
"In terms of image quality, the sensor in the EOS 6D Mark II is from the same generation as the EOS 5D Mark IV, rather than EOS 5D Mark III, so the image quality will be similar to the EOS 5D Mark IV. There will be differences in certain shooting conditions but if its better, will probably come down to personal preferences."
p.46 #11 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Mashuto wrote:
I just cant imagine they could magically increase the DR as much as we hoped with a firmware update, and the hardware has to have been finalized some time ago.
About the only thing that comes to mind for me is if the new sensor is using a somewhat diff color array, but the firmware of the pre-production model isn't the ideal match for it.
I can't recall the image, but it seemed that the color of the noise of the 6D2 was not nearly so RGB oriented with that heavy blue that we're accustomed to seeing, i.e. it seemed more a muted lime / violet oriented. Here's an article regarding CFA color choices. Maybe Canon's "secret sauce" lands somewhere between RGB & CMY.
About the only way I can hypothetically reconcile "new sensor of 5D4 generation" with DR performance of yore is a mismatch between the firmware and the CFA in the pre-production model ... and production models then receiving the firmware better suited to the CFA.
Speculation of course, but something just doesn't seem to add up about new sensor performing like old sensor. Soon, we'll see. Till then ... we ponder.
p.46 #12 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
RustyBug wrote:
Yup, that' my guess at the crux of how it's gonna play out. Worst case, it's like the 6D. Best case, better than 80D.
Flip a coin at the moment ... although most folks seem to be doubting anything will be diff, while a few are still hoping that reality will defy what we've been shown so far.
But, going back to pg. 33 (while looking for the CR2 links referenced above), this caught my attention.
If you go back to page 32 you will notice I was simply re-quoting a portion of a statement that TurboJonte said he had found. I tried to find this facebook page myself last night but came up empty handed. However, it looks like the new member onthebubblephoto might have found it.
From the sounds of it, it seems Canon is rushing to get a few new "production" models out there early.
I'm not quit sure what to read into that but I'm going with....
"Größerer Dynamikumfang"
p.46 #13 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
RustyBug wrote:
About the only thing that comes to mind for me is if the new sensor is using a somewhat diff color array, but the firmware of the pre-production model isn't the ideal match for it.
I can't recall the image, but it seemed that the color of the noise of the 6D2 was not nearly so RGB oriented with that heavy blue that we're accustomed to seeing, i.e. it seemed more a muted lime & magenta oriented. Here's an article regarding CFA color choices.
About the only way I can hypothetically reconcile "new sensor of 5D4 generation" with DR performance of yore is a mismatch between the firmware and the CFA in the pre-production model ... and production models then receiving the firmware better suited to the CFA.
Speculation of course, but something just doesn't seem to add up about new sensor performing like old sensor. Soon, we'll see. Till then ... we ponder.
Now that is a very interesting theory Kent! Maybe there is something to it. Then again... maybe not.
Something else I was thinking about last night is the elusive new DPP software used to read those early CR2 files.
I know nothing about software and how it relates/reads any given file type such as the CR2's but I wonder if there could be a glitch or bug in this unreleased software version that is not reading the CR2 files correctly?
Again, I know not what I speak of here and therefore this thought is beyond pure speculation. Just something I was pondering last night.
p.46 #14 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
I'm at the point now where I've accepted the 6D2 will have comparable DR to my 6D, and I'm okay with it. If things change from what we anticipate, that will be a welcome surprise. For what I'm currently shooting, I so very rarely come upon shots where I'm frustrated at the RAW files for not having more information, but I frequently loathe the lack of an articulating screen and sparse spread of focal points. The 6D2 will be a welcome addition to our family, even if it has a few disappointments along with it. I will say, if the 5DIV had a tilty-flippy, I would have gone with that model based on the anticipated DR of the 6D2. I never thought that feature would be such a big deal for me, but it really makes it more natural and comfortable to get the shooting angles I enjoy.
p.46 #15 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
RustyBug wrote:
I didn't open those since they were high ISO (3200 & 6400) according to the post. They don't seem to be functioning well at the moment.
3 of the 5 links are at ISO 100. I have downloaded these so I also have a copy.
p.46 #16 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
myaeroplace wrote:
I'm at the point now where I've accepted the 6D2 will have comparable DR to my 6D,
"Hey Canon. I really dig my 6D. But, if I send it back to you, could you update that AF module to have f/8 AF like the 80D? Oh, and BTW, could you put that flippy screen from the 80D on it, too?"
"Sure thing, Kent." The upgrade to the AF module will be about $150, is that okay with you?"
"Sounds good. Way better than having to spend the $$$ for a 5 series to use my 100-400 II + TC III."
"The flippy screen, that's gonna bit a bit trickier, since we'll have to develop a new mold, and redesign the internal components to fit inside after we recess the shell some for the flippy screen. We'll have to charge you about $350 for that kind of a retrofit. Is that okay?"
"Startin' to add up, but it runs about $250 - $400 for an IR conversion these days, so that's not unreasonable."
"Do you want to send us your old 6D with miles on it? Or, would you prefer to buy a new 6D and have us retrofit it from start?"
p.46 #18 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
RustyBug wrote:
"Hey Canon. I really dig my 6D. But, if I send it back to you, could you update that AF module to have f/8 AF like the 80D? Oh, and BTW, could you put that flippy screen from the 80D on it, too?"
"Sure thing, Kent." The upgrade to the AF module will be about $150, is that okay with you?"
"Sounds good. Way better than having to spend the $$$ for a 5 series to use my 100-400 II + TC III."
"The flippy screen, that's gonna bit a bit trickier, since we'll have to develop a new mold, and redesign the internal components to fit inside after we recess the shell some for the flippy screen. We'll have to charge you about $350 for that kind of a retrofit. Is that okay?"
"Startin' to add up, but it runs about $250 - $400 for an IR conversion these days, so that's not unreasonable."
"Do you want to send us your old 6D with miles on it? Or, would you prefer to buy a new 6D and have us retrofit it from start?"
From a business perspective, I honestly think their decision to keep the DR at 6D levels makes a lot of sense. The fact that I started considering a 5DIV was the sign to me that Canon's team had created the right gap between the 5D and 6D line. I'm still not *happy* with the decision, but I totally understand it, and realize where it comes from. Truth be told, the DR on a 6D is perfectly fine for most prosumer/hobbyist shooting. I absolutely love shooting with the 6D, and this is basically a 6D on roids
p.46 #20 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
myaeroplace wrote:
Exactly this.
From a business perspective, I honestly think their decision to keep the DR at 6D levels makes a lot of sense. The fact that I started considering a 5DIV was the sign to me that Canon's team had created the right gap between the 5D and 6D line. I'm still not *happy* with the decision, but I totally understand it, and realize where it comes from. Truth be told, the DR on a 6D is perfectly fine for most prosumer/hobbyist shooting. I absolutely love shooting with the 6D, and this is basically a 6D on roids
I'm right there with ya. I have gone round and round full circle on this.
After reading all the DR hype and getting sucked into it, I was just about to cancel my pre-order the other day.
But then reality kicked in.
I have never once heard anyone complaining about the DR or ISO performance of the original 6D. Matter of fact, it has always been highly praised for these very things and still is 5 years later.
Now suddenly after these initial reports, whether they are correct or not, it appears that the original 6D DR and ISO performance is in fact not good enough and must create terrible photos. Strange how we never heard any of those owners complaining before.
So here's where I'm at with all this.
I have never shot the 6D, but from what I've read and understand from most users.
They wanted faster frame rates. Canon has now delivered
They wanted better AF including AF @ f/8. Canon has now delivered
They wanted a flippy screen. Canon has now delivered
They wanted more MP. Canon has now delivered
And correct me if I'm wrong but at least two of the above improvements can reduce DR.
1) Faster SS
2) Higher MP
And yet with these improvements we are still seeing close to the same DR as the original? Wouldn't this indicate that the DR has infact been improved?
Granted, I don't understand why the 5DIV can achieve all the above and then some and still see a nice bump in DR, but hey, it's a Pro model that cost an extra $1,300 so why shouldn't it.
