p.28 #1 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
RobDickinson wrote:
It has the 5dsr bulb timer function, the Bluetooth works.. But seems to just be an easy way to boot WiFi.
Af works very well, flippy touch screen is great
Did they finally manage to improve their exposure simulation and is it on par with sony? What i hate about canon is that extreme low light photography is a disaster using live view where i could easily use the a7r as a WYSIWYG tool.
p.28 #2 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Rob and others here. Thank you for the first information. Did I understand this right?
Compared to its predecessor 6D with 6D II Canon enhanced the resolution about 30%, enhanced (maybe) the ISO capabilities about 2/3 stops and they did enhance ISO 100 DR about 0% (zero)? It remains "as bad" as it was on 6D, a 5 year old sensor?
This looks really unbelieveable!
I understand anybodies disapointment about this (if it turns out to be the truth).
Millions of frustrated 6D users where kicked in their a...s by Canon now. After 5 years of waiting for an worthy upgrade, they have to realize that 6D II would not bring them the neccessary enhancement at ISO 100! Horrible!
So after 20 pages of "no 4k video" do we now have to start another 20 pages discussion about how useless this body is for landscape shooters? So letīs not pass any time please and letīs start immediatelly. My lifespan is to short to waist any further seconds.
Yes, as a Canon fanboy I have to admit, that I was flashed by Robs pic above that I immediatelly thought: Great! I WANT this camera. Of course I forgot that taking a great picture is not only a matter of the best available tool, but a question of the person behind the viewfinder. I am pretty sure a landscape genius like Rob would have been able to shoot a picture like this with my D60 at 6MP, ISO 1000 max and a DR of (was it?) 8 or 9 stops at ISO 100, too. But I am not that genius. I guess, I need better ISO 100 DR than the outdated 6D gives me.
Now I am lost. Do I have to wait for 5D V-VII or is it okay to "Rob" (see this funny pun) a bank and purchase a 5D IV? Or should I really stay with 6D, that how I now had to realise does not give me enough DR in ISO 100 and does not give me all those marginal improvements nobody needs, like 30% higher res, better AF, nice flippy screen, better high ISO performance, faster frame rate, Blue-thingi, better seal, the chance to buy a new grip and showing all my friends that I have a new camera?
Please, dear FM members give me an advise! I am completely disorientated now.
Conny
*For those, who do not know me enough to understand my humor: I was happy with Canons DR since I first heard about there is something like this and I was shooting a 30D. Of course I am not a pro landscape shooter.
p.28 #3 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
After processing the 6D2 posted ISO 40000 file and "scaling" the results to ISO 6400 to compare with my 6D, it hints to some improvement at high ISO, about 1/3 EV. The estimated DR at ISO 6400 is 10.37 for the 6D2 vs 10.06 in the 6D. On the other hand at ISO 100 the 6D2 showed a tad worse results.
This must be taken with a grain of salt until we get proper high ISO shots. The 6D2 measured DR at ISO 40000 is 7.72114 and 2.64 EV have been added (log2(40000/6400)) to compensate the ISO difference.
After waking up today I'm still shocked about the 6D2. Still better than the 6D (I find specially useful the two axis electronic level and the way it handles auto ISO) but not what potentially new buyers were waiting for in 2017 and much less enough incentives for any existing 6D user in order to upgrade.
p.28 #4 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Ralph Conway wrote:
...
Now I am lost. Do I have to wait for 5D V-VII or is it okay to "Rob" (see this funny pun) a bank and purchase a 5D IV? Or should I really stay with 6D, that how I now had to realise does not give me enough DR in ISO 100 and does not give me all those marginal improvements nobody needs, like 30% higher res, better AF, nice flippy screen, better high ISO performance, faster frame rate, Blue-thingi, better seal, the chance to buy a new grip and showing all my friends that I have a new camera? ...Show more →
I already had decided to wait for the 5DS2 in order to upgrade my 6D... it maybe won't improve a lot over the 5D4, but at least will shoot stills at 8K (39MP is the minimum required, and the extra MP are good headroom to account for lenses corrections). Since Canon seems to keep a 5 year upgrade cycle in high end cameras, and from now on we can expect only minor improvements, and taking into account how much expensive the bodies are compared with the lenses, a 8K-ready camera is a must if you want to skip nonsense upgrades (like this 6D2) in the next decade.
And Canon could surprise us as soon as in 2018 with the 5DS2. The current 5DS is a no-go in 2017. It should have been released one year later with a more competitive sensor.
p.28 #5 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Most shooters imo (of most brands) skip the next generation body, because the differences usually are to small to justify an upgrade.
But 6D II still looks like a great FF intro camera to me. Sooner or later 6D will be run out and the 6D II would be an interesting start into FF for enthusiasts upgrading from crop. And for those whose 6D reached the end of their life cycle. The 6D actually is available at less then 1450 new here in germany (it started at 2100). 6D II might reach this price tag after christmas or maybe before summer hollyday 2018.
p.28 #6 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Well, no one answered my question about the possibility of the images coming off of a beta test model (pre-production) . So I'm still holding out hope this is false information.
This would make absolutely zero sense for Canon to make no improvement. Was not the DR and high ISO performance the very thing that made the 6D such a success in the first place?
At the very least it should equal the 5DIV. It's the same sensor isn't it?
I really don't want to cancel my order but this is pretty disturbing news.
p.28 #7 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
lighthound wrote:
Well, no one answered my question about the possibility of the images coming off of a beta test model (pre-production) . So I'm still holding out hope this is false information.
This would make absolutely zero sense for Canon to make no improvement. Was not the DR and high ISO performance the very thing that made the 6D such a success in the first place?
At the very least it should equal the 5DIV. It's the same sensor isn't it?
I really don't want to cancel my order but this is pretty disturbing news.
I'm pretty sure it's a different sensor altogether, 30mp vs 26.
Having said that, I do hope the initial tests have it all wrong, and that it matches or even bests the 5dmk4 improvements. $2k is an awful lot to get just a tilt screen and an updated af
p.28 #8 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Isaacheus wrote:
I'm pretty sure it's a different sensor altogether, 30mp vs 26.
Having said that, I do hope the initial tests have it all wrong, and that it matches or even bests the 5dmk4 improvements. $2k is an awful lot to get just a tilt screen and an updated af
Yeah, I caught that after I hit send.
Something just doesn't make sense here. While every other camera from any manufacturer, gets a bump up in DR and high ISO on any new release, the 6DII doesn't!
This is the kind of BS that can and will make customers jump ship even if they loose some $$ switching.
p.28 #9 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
+1 that the first data point about DR seems to be bringing disappointing news on the low ISO end of things. I must admit that this brings a "sinking - kick in the gut" emotive on first reaction.
However, not to give up the ship on the first salvo, I went to work a bit (a bit crude yet in certain regards) with the file. Learning how to handle the files from the 6D2 might take a bit, yet ... but, here's my first pass to find out what kind of "reveal from the abyss" can be achieved. This is 100% crop. Wasn't quite sure how far to take it, so take it with a grain of salt as "one data point".
Considering this came from recorded values of sub 10 to now well above 100 ... that "sinking" feeling isn't nearly as commandeering as the "swift kick" being felt when first reading about DR values.
Bearing in mind the degree to which this section of the image was underexposed, the level of color / detail that it now has is encouraging to me (understanding that more learning about 6D2 files is yet to come). Early yet, and YMMV .. but, I'm not sure that "all is lost" just yet.
p.28 #10 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
lighthound wrote:
Well, no one answered my question about the possibility of the images coming off of a beta test model (pre-production) . So I'm still holding out hope this is false information.
The camera is due out in a few weeks, and Canon NZ doesn't appear to have told Rob he couldn't release images, which is often done with preproduction cameras. The sensor and everything else meets the spec's provided so I would think it's likely it is a production body with production or near production firmware.
Sure it is remotely possible it's a preproduction body with a preproduction sensor that will be worse than the final ones but that seems highly unlikely, I personally don't recall hearing to much about variability between the same sensor.
I think the more likely case is that this is the final result and canon is saying, here is our new entry level model'' aimed to attract new customers or upgraders from APS-C. It's been modernised in terms of body and the sensor is higher res, but if you want a significant upgrade in terms of image capabilities, as an exisiting 6D shooter you should get a 5Dmk4. If the initial suggestions that the high ISO has improved are correct then perhaps it'll be a nice upgrade for astrophotography.
p.28 #11 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
lighthound wrote:
Well, no one answered my question about the possibility of the images coming off of a beta test model (pre-production) . So I'm still holding out hope this is false information.
This would make absolutely zero sense for Canon to make no improvement. Was not the DR and high ISO performance the very thing that made the 6D such a success in the first place?
At the very least it should equal the 5DIV. It's the same sensor isn't it?
I really don't want to cancel my order but this is pretty disturbing news.
No one?
I do made a bet (a 0.001% chance :-)
26MP is a new design. It wouldn't have sense to have two new designs, one upgraded and another crippled for preproduction tests.
p.28 #12 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
lighthound wrote:
Yeah, I caught that after I hit send.
Something just doesn't make sense here. While every other camera from any manufacturer, gets a bump up in DR and high ISO on any new release, the 6DII doesn't!
This is the kind of BS that can and will make customers jump ship even if they loose some $$ switching.
I think that Sony/Nikon only show minor DR improvements on each new release (and not always: the D5 and A9 are steps back).
And Nikon/Sony don't have the Canon lenses. Canon wide TS-E lenses are amazing and competitive, and many recent lenses updated are the best glass available in the world. In fact I'd trade 1.6 EV of DR for them (or in the long run the inconvenience of using adaptors, if you Canon happen to be reading this ;-).
p.28 #13 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Well damn...
How hard do you think it would be for someone to rip apart the 5DIV and put the flippy screen off his 70D on it? Desperate times call for desperate measures.
Just joking of course but it would be nice.
I hear you all on the evidence, excellent work btw cgarcia and thank you, but this just seems like too big of a kick in the nuts to me, even for Canon.
I'm going to cling to that 0.001% for the next few days before I decide what to do.
p.28 #14 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
This doesn't make sense. The improvements to the 5D4 and 80D came as a result of moving the ADC on-sensor. A pic of the 6D2 sensor was posted at DPR and it looks to have on-sensor ADCs as well.
p.28 #15 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
lighthound wrote:
Well damn...
How hard do you think it would be for someone to rip apart the 5DIV and put the flippy screen off his 70D on it? Desperate times call for desperate measures.
Just joking of course but it would be nice.
I hear you all on the evidence, excellent work btw cgarcia and thank you, but this just seems like too big of a kick in the nuts to me, even for Canon.
I'm going to cling to that 0.001% for the next few days before I decide what to do.
But ... this image is about as much of a torture test as you can possibly have. Personally, I'm not sure that this will be the kind of shooting that I'll be doing.
Optimal exposure for contending with DR that exceeds the range of ANY camera is always challenging ... and yes, you have to "choose your poison" with regard to highlights vs. shadows.
So, we currently have "one strike" (more like a foul tip) against the DR for an image that extensively exceeds the DR of all cameras. I'm looking forward to see what is the IQ of the image when we shoot WITHIN the DR of the camera.
For Dave ... I'm thinking Cataloochee ... you won't be shooting directly into the sun while capturing wildlife, etc.
What would be really interesting (which we don't have) would be to see the same image, shot same exif with 5D4 (or others) to see just how much real world diff there is between the 6D2 and the others. Unfortunately we don't have that (not yet anyway).
Imo, head to head with the 5D4 will be more telling as to what is being gained / lost, than the single standalone image ... i.e. still too early to tell.
p.28 #16 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
cgarcia wrote:
And Nikon/Sony don't have the Canon lenses. Canon wide TS-E lenses are amazing and competitive, and many recent lenses updated are the best glass available in the world.
Nor do I have such Canon lenses. If a person own a TS-E lens (a spesific lens indeed), I think he/she has enough bank to have 5DIV/SR.
I have 16-35/4 lens and love it a lot. Nikon/Sony siblings are at least two times expensive if speaking of equality in IQ (14-24 e.g.). Nikon 24-120 is even cheaper than Canon 24-105 and Nikon has a lot of affordable bright E-primes.
The question is not that Canon don't provide upgrades. They do. With release of 6D II they stopped giving to customers the very best of their censor R/D division in terms of pure censor IQ as everyone hoped for.
In FF line (omitting 1DX series) and in chronological order (IMHO):
5D -> 5D II - double MP count and DR improvement
5D II -> 5D III - DR and banding issue improvement
5D III -> 6D - high ISO imprt. and no banding
6D -> 5D IV - MP bump, DR & high ISO
5DIV -> 6D II - no improvement
p.28 #17 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
RustyBug wrote:
But ... this image is about as much of a torture test as you can possibly have. Personally, I'm not sure that this will be the kind of shooting that I'll be doing.
Also (I'll get blasted for this likely), the image is underexposed. By that, I mean look at the values for the white sections in the clouds. The Exif value of 1/6s @ f/11 equates to 5 stops below Sunny 16 (EV15), and sunset light is in the 12-13 EV range, so that puts the exposure (for the clouds illuminated by the sunset lighting condition) 1-2 stops under, and of course the shadow side of things is several stops below that for a combined underexposure of >5+ stops.
Optimal exposure for contending with DR that exceeds the range of ANY camera is always challenging ... and yes, you have to "choose your poison" with regard to highlights vs. shadows.
So, we currently have "one strike" (more like a foul tip) against the DR for an image that extensively exceeds the DR of all cameras. I'm looking forward to see what is the IQ of the image when we shoot WITHIN the DR of the camera.
For Dave ... I'm thinking Cataloochee ... you won't be shooting directly into the sun while capturing wildlife, etc.
What would be really interesting (which we don't have) would be to see the same image, shot same exif with 5D4 (or others) to see just how much real world diff there is between the 6D2 and the others. Unfortunately we don't have that (not yet anyway).
Imo, head to head with the 5D4 will be more telling as to what is being gained / lost, than the single standalone image ... i.e. still too early to tell....Show more →
I hope you are right. And I agree that a lot of us (myself included) are probably jumping the gun with a lot of this.
But the fact is we just don't know anything for certain yet, and without measurements or direct comparisons with the 6D or the 5D4 its really hard to tell. Even though it certainly appears that the evidence is saying that it wont be an improvement over the 6D.
My issue right now is not whether this will be a great camera or not. In fact I have no doubt in my mind that it will be an excellent camera. My issue is that I have it on preorder. And part of my preorder was the assumption that since all the recent medium to higher end canon cameras had improved DR and IQ, that the 6D2 would too. In fact it was almost a no brainer, especially when you consider where the original 6D clocked in vs the 5D3.
So, while the features are all nice and I certainly am looking forward to having them, without an increase in DR too, I am just not sure the 6D2 is worth its full asking price as an upgrade over the original 6D, for me. I was also planning to keep my 6D as a backup and could sell it to offset the cost significantly. But still, I have it on preorder, and I am more and more beginning to think I should cancel it, because even if it turns out that these initial numbers were wrong and there is a nice boost in DR and IQ, all I stand to lose is a maybe a month or two while I wait for stock to replenish. And in the meantime, I still have my 6D which hasnt suddenly become a shitty camera just because they announced a new one.
p.28 #18 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
RustyBug wrote:
But ... this image is about as much of a torture test as you can possibly have. Personally, I'm not sure that this will be the kind of shooting that I'll be doing.
Also (I'll get blasted for this likely), the image is underexposed. By that, I mean look at the values for the white sections in the clouds. The Exif value of 1/6s @ f/11 equates to 5 stops below Sunny 16 (EV15), and sunset light is in the 12-13 EV range, so that puts the exposure (for the clouds illuminated by the sunset lighting condition) 1-2 stops under, and of course the shadow side of things is several stops below that for a combined underexposure of >5+ stops.
Optimal exposure for contending with DR that exceeds the range of ANY camera is always challenging ... and yes, you have to "choose your poison" with regard to highlights vs. shadows.
So, we currently have "one strike" (more like a foul tip) against the DR for an image that extensively exceeds the DR of all cameras. I'm looking forward to see what is the IQ of the image when we shoot WITHIN the DR of the camera.
For Dave ... I'm thinking Cataloochee ... you won't be shooting directly into the sun while capturing wildlife, etc.
What would be really interesting (which we don't have) would be to see the same image, shot same exif with 5D4 (or others) to see just how much real world diff there is between the 6D2 and the others. Unfortunately we don't have that (not yet anyway).
Imo, head to head with the 5D4 will be more telling as to what is being gained / lost, than the single standalone image ... i.e. still too early to tell....Show more →
Yes, I agree that the DR of the 6DII for most wildlife shooting up in the valley or elsewhere will have very little importance. The concern I have is that I need/want a single body for both wildlife and landscapes. And as you know, I shoot a lot of extreme DR scenes, ie most recent posts in PC for example.
So if they crippled the DR (landscape) side, my next question is what did they do on the ISO (wildlife) side?
Both DR and high ISO were that absolute most important improvements I was wanting.
Granted, both are probably vast improvements coming from my 5DII and 70D but for $2K I'd expect these two very basic parameters to be at least upto the current standard (5DIV / 1DXII). Let all the other bells and whistles be the differentiating factors between them. Not the fundamental basics.
p.28 #19 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Per DXO @ base ISO (except 6D2 of course)
80D - 13.17
1DX II - 13.48
5D4 - 13.59
A9 - 13.27
6D - 12.1
6D2 - 11.9
That's a bit of a head scratcher how the same technology of the three Canon's above are so tightly grouped, and the pixel size of the 6D2 sits between the 1DX II and the 5D4 ... and somehow comes out with a radically different value, not even in the same general ballpark. Imo, I was expecting it to land somewhere between the 80D and the 1DX II ... or at least close to my 80D.
Single data point result kinda defies the expectation quite a bit. I'm hoping that we learn otherwise as time passes.
p.28 #20 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
rfkiii wrote:
This doesn't make sense. The improvements to the 5D4 and 80D came as a result of moving the ADC on-sensor. A pic of the 6D2 sensor was posted at DPR and it looks to have on-sensor ADCs as well.
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AlexDROP wrote:
Nor do I have such Canon lenses. If a person own a TS-E lens (a spesific lens indeed), I think he/she has enough bank to have 5DIV/SR.
I have 16-35/4 lens and love it a lot. Nikon/Sony siblings are at least two times expensive if speaking of equality in IQ (14-24 e.g.). Nikon 24-120 is even cheaper than Canon 24-105 and Nikon has a lot of affordable bright E-primes.
The question is not that Canon don't provide upgrades. They do. With release of 6D II they stopped giving to customers the very best of their censor R/D division in terms of pure censor IQ as everyone hoped for.
In FF line (omitting 1DX series) and in chronological order (IMHO):
5D -> 5D II - double MP count and DR improvement
5D II -> 5D III - DR and banding issue improvement
5D III -> 6D - high ISO imprt. and no banding
6D -> 5D IV - MP bump, DR & high ISO
5DIV -> 6D II - no improvement ...Show more →
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RustyBug wrote:
Per DXO @ base ISO
80D - 13.17
1DX II - 13.48
5D4 - 13.59
A9 - 13.27
6D2
Exactly to all 3 of the above comments! This simply does not make any sense.
>walks away shaking his head, desperately holding onto the 0.001% of hope.<
