p.29 #1 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
lighthound wrote:
Yes, I agree that the DR of the 6DII for most wildlife shooting up in the valley or elsewhere will have very little importance. The concern I have is that I need/want a single body for both wildlife and landscapes. And as you know, I shoot a lot of extreme DR scenes, ie most recent posts in PC for example.
So if they crippled the DR (landscape) side, my next question is what did they do on the ISO (wildlife) side?
Both DR and high ISO were that absolute most important improvements I was wanting.
Granted, both are probably vast improvements coming from my 5DII and 70D but for $2K I'd expect these two very basic parameters to be at least upto the current standard (5DIV / 1DXII). Let all the other bells and whistles be the differentiating factors between them. Not the fundamental basics.
As pleased as I am with the IQ of my 80D ... ummm, why wouldn't I expect the larger pixels and area of FF to be on par or better with same sensor technology. Again, single data point, and that's a very torturous test image to work from. I'm hoping that somehow that has influenced the results, such that we come to learn that the 6D2 is in the neighborhood of the contemporary (80D, 5D4, 1DX II) Canon bodies. "Scaled back" features (no dual slots, no 4K, no joystick, etc.) expected ... IQ variance, not so much.
I'm on pre-order to ... with B&H. It will be a "quick study" to discern if the 6D2 IQ tickles my fancy as well as the 80D does (i.e. we wanted a big brother of the 80D), or it is merely a distant cousin wearing a flippy screen.
"According to Canon representatives, the 6D Mark II should outperform the original 6D (which it very evidently does) but may not offer the same kind of dynamic range and absolute resolution of the EOS 5D Mark IV."
"According to Canon representatives, the 6D Mark II should outperform the original 6D (which it very evidently does) but may not offer the same kind of dynamic range and absolute resolution of the EOS 5D Mark IV."
That quote was actually my first concern. Obviously its not going to match in terms of absolute resolution because 26mp vs 30mp, but the DR comment was a bit concerning especially because that could mean it falls anywhere between the current 6D and the 5D4. Or potentially even lower than the 6D, just means it wont match.
As far as outperforming the 6D, well thats a very vague statement. So maybe high ISO is better, maybe it means it outperforms elsewhere. Who knows.
Anyways, still leaning towards cancelling my preorder just because there are too many unknowns and I think its probably better to wait to more measurements and reviews come out. Best case scenario it performs on par with the 5d4 and all I sacrifice is having to be patient for a short while so they can get stock back up. Worst case, its not great, and I make other plans (either selling my current 6D to finance it) or skip it entirely, in which case, I still have my 6D, which hasnt suddenly gotten worse just because they announced this new one.
p.29 #4 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
RustyBug wrote:
+1
As pleased as I am with the IQ of my 80D ... ummm, why wouldn't I expect the larger pixels and area of FF to be on par or better with same sensor technology. Again, single data point, and that's a very torturous test image to work from. I'm hoping that somehow that has influenced the results, such that we come to learn that the 6D2 is in the neighborhood of the contemporary (80D, 5D4, 1DX II) Canon bodies. "Scaled back" features (no dual slots, no 4K, no joystick, etc.) expected ... IQ variance, not so much.
I'm on pre-order to ... with B&H. It will be a "quick study" to discern if the 6D2 IQ tickles my fancy as well as the 80D does (i.e. we wanted a big brother of the 80D), or it is merely a distant cousin wearing a flippy screen. ...Show more →
As such, you would "think" that the curve on the 6D2 would parallel the 5D4 & 1DX II ... with just a bit of difference due to pixel size variance (similar to the 6D / 5D3 / 1DX relationship). That would suggest then, that the 6D2 would have ballpark DR @ base ISO to the 5D4 & 1DX II.
p.29 #6 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
cgarcia wrote:
Some people critiquize the DXO dynamic range definition, but every other definition out there (e.g. "photographic dynamic range") merely adds/substracts a fixed offset, even worse introducing external variables (e.g. circle of confusion) which only serve to make the results non comparable across cameras. And DXO does not uses the method I post here, but usually they yield nearly the same values.
It is 99,999% safe to state that the 6D2 has zero dynamic range improvement at low ISO compared to the 6D.
EB-1 wrote:
Famous last words.
EBH
cgarcia wrote:
I used comma instead of point to separate the decimals... :-)
The 0.001% is in my opinion the chance of this being a preproduction sample and Canon being delivering the production model with another entirely different sensor.
The measured 6D2 sample has no DR improvement over the 6D with 100.000% confidence.
I hope you are correct, but rather too often preliminary data is found to be invalid. At the very least I'd want a second person reviewer and Quality as well.
Seriously though, quantum physics was never my favorite. I assume the semi-conductor engineers do what they can to obtain an acceptable signal from photons based on the user requirements, timelines, and budgets. The vast majority of the photographers just press the icon at the Amazon and the camera arrives.
p.29 #7 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
It is 99,999% safe to state that the 6D2 has zero dynamic range improvement at low ISO compared to the 6D.
I'm not sure I'd fully agree with that at this juncture.
I might agree that there is an incredibly strong confidence that the values derived from the particular image provided will yield the same values when repeated by a different tester ... but, it may not be that the image provided for testing is equitably suited as the same testing for which standardized testing (i.e.DXO historic, etc.) might reveal.
I'm certain the tester did a marvelously, unrefutable job ... just not sure the test image was at optimal exposure to achieve max DR. Standardized testing may reveal some apples to oranges for revised consideration. (Well, one can hope anyway.)
p.29 #9 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
lighthound wrote:
So if they crippled the DR (landscape) side, my next question is what did they do on the ISO (wildlife) side?
Both DR and high ISO were that absolute most important improvements I was wanting.
Granted, both are probably vast improvements coming from my 5DII and 70D but for $2K I'd expect these two very basic parameters to be at least upto the current standard (5DIV / 1DXII). Let all the other bells and whistles be the differentiating factors between them. Not the fundamental basics.
Why wouldn't you buy a 5D4? It is a good compromise for landscapes with 30 MP, decent reach (similar to 1D IV) for wildlife, and good high ISO as well.
"According to Canon representatives, the 6D Mark II should outperform the original 6D (which it very evidently does) but may not offer the same kind of dynamic range and absolute resolution of the EOS 5D Mark IV."
I remember reading this and thinking to myself:
This can't be right; why would a newer sensor have less DR .
Unfortunately, the preliminary analysis done here seems to corroborate the above statement.
Too much of a coincidence for both of these to be false.
What seems to be happening here is that the 6DII sensor uses the same tech as the 5DS and 7DII sensors - not the newer tech used in the 1DXII, 5DIV, and 80D.
I guess only Canon knows why they chose the older sensor tech for the 6DII.
But this also explains why the 6DII doesn't have 4K video either - just like the 5DS and 7DII don't have it.
Oh, well.
The 6DII will likely represent good value when its price drops.
But as only Canon can, they have again managed to muddy the waters and make choosing the 6DII *not* a straightforward proposition.
I have the 80D and I really don't want to buy a more expensive camera with less base-ISO DR than what I already have.
p.29 #14 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
dalite wrote:
Ppl . . . . please! you expect a $1999 camera to have comparable performance to one costing $3500? Sorry, you can't have it your way.
When it comes to low-ISO DR, I think it was quite reasonable to expect some improvement with the 6DII. Particularly considering that the $1000 80D appears to be significantly better in this regard.
May not be important to everyone, but certainly is to some.
p.29 #16 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
dalite wrote:
Ppl . . . . please! you expect a $1999 camera to have comparable performance to one costing $3500? Sorry, you can't have it your way.
+1 @ no expectation of $2,000 = $3,500 in all regard of performance, but the base sensor technology is essentially the same ... just not all the periphery.
Except, the previous gen 6D did parallel the curve on the 5D3 & 1DX ... so why wouldn't folks expect the 6D2 gen to parallel the curve on 5D4 & 1DX II? No expectation of all the goodies (dual slots, 4K video, more AF points, etc), but given the fundamental base sensor technology in this generation, one likely should see a similar (not necessarily exact or top) "a rising tide lifts all boats". Whether its a dinghy or a yacht, when the tide goes up so does the craft.
If there is truly no "lift" ... yes, that is disappointing, and head-scratching. But, we've only seen one member of the jury come back so far.
p.29 #17 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Hi Rob,
Thank you so much for sharing these CR2s!!! I don't want to abuse of your time but would you have some other raw shots in the mid ISO range (800 to 12800) that you could also share with us? I am really eager to find out where this DR curve starts to bend and catches up with the 5D4 and the competition...
p.29 #18 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
jorkata wrote:
I have the 80D and I really don't want to buy a more expensive camera with less base-ISO DR than what I already have.
I've been holding off on buying an EF-S crop lens for the UWA on my 80D ... figuring that the ballpark $800-ish spent there to get a good one, would go into the 6D2 (and thus render my 16-35, 16-35 again).
If they truly did use the old gen sensor again ... that would be a very unexpected surprise.
p.29 #20 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
If it truly is the "old sensor":
Let's see ... $2K
Original 6D (low light / tonality) + EF-S UWA for the 80D (fine detail / DR & AF @ f/8).
Or, just weld the 16-35/4 IS on the original 6D for UWA ... or ...
The only thing I'd be giving up is high ISO + AF @ f/8.
Old sensor in 6D2 ... "Say it ain't so, Joe."
Or 5D4 (no flippy).
What a turn of events this would be if the IQ truly isn't up to (and surpassing) the 80D level @ base ISO (and only 1/3 stop over the 70D).
)
.