p.21 #2 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Ralph Conway wrote:
It is just a joke to enhance ISO capability by lowering resolution to a 10 year old standard and selling it high price as innovation.
Yeah, seems to be kInd of a double standard, huh.
I mean, claiming that 4K video is a must for the future and that FHD video isn't suitable ... then presenting an A7S 12MP (how future oriented is that for stills) camera (that doesn't actually record 4K video itself) that has lower resolution than 2004 models as being "superior".
If the camera is being judged on the merits of BOTH stills & video ... then discounting the resolution on the stills side of the equation is just as incomplete as decrying the absence of 4K video ... i.e. what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
But, I'm of the perspective that the 6D2 is NOT designed to be equal parts stills & video ... rather it is designed to be weighted toward the stills (again an entry level, enthusiasts) FF moreover than video. The reality is that there are a plethora of options ... each weighted differently ... with no such animal as a perfect camera that serves all application, all the time.
Accepting the fact that "horses for courses" and "different strokes for different folks" is just part of our beloved craft. For some, the A7s is the cat's meow ... that's cool. For others, the 6D2 may (or may not) be theirs.
p.21 #3 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
My personal take on lack of 4K:
The implementation of 4K even on the 5Dm4 seems to be cumbersome (e.g. heavy crop), so at best 6Dm2 would have that.
If the 5Dm4 could read out from full frame (like it works for 1080p) then I would really miss it.
Even the 1Dxm2 has a crop in 4k, suggesting that the technology is not yet mature.
As far as future goes, for 4k needs (if they come before 6dm3 come out) I will just buy the first APS-c camera with 4K (my guess 90D?).
At this price point I would have also liked to see:
- Dual card slots (with UHS-II)
- AF point linked spot metering
- Bigger buffer
- Higher flash sync
- 100% VF coverage
- More than 3 frames bracketing
- Better AF (the -3.0 EV center point is only in single shot mode, continuous AF reduces that significantly both in the center and even more so at outer points)
Considering you could get a D750 a while ago for ~$1450 with an OEM grip, memory card, and a bag it's hard for me to see $2000 of value in the 6D II. I'm sure it'll be a fine camera, I just think they dropped the ball a little bit on this one. A few tweaks would have gone a long way towards improving it's value proposition IMHO, I think they were just a bit too worried about 5DM4 sales with this one.
p.21 #5 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
RobDickinson wrote:
At what point is the D750 entry level when the d610 exists?
Since you brought up the 4 YEAR OLD Nikon that cost A THOUSAND DOLLARS less, how does the 6dii compare to it.
nikon D610 released 2013
24.3 meg vs 26.2..... Wow you got em there canon
39 af points all grouped in the center, just like canon's 45. wtg canon you barely got another one.
1080P video with headphone out vs canon 1080 60P no headphone, would have cost to much to add that canon.
USB 2.0 compatibility just like the brand new canon, just to much tech going usb 3 for a 2000 dollar camera I guess.
100% view finder coverage, nope not for the brand new $2K canon. That would be a PRO feature
Sync speed 1/200 vs canons 1/180 yep another Pro feature reserved for canon cameras costing more than $2K, or crop camera's.
Dual card slots vs, You guessed it, Not for the $2K canon 6dii That's a pro feature reserved only for canon camera's cost MUCH more.
Good thing its got DPAF, a newer sensor and a tilt screen without them it would be the exact equal of a FOUR YEAR OLD CAMERA costing half the price of your fine state of the art beast.
You got them on the run canon, it only took you 5 years to beat a 4 year old camera. Cant wait to see what the 6diii brings in 2022. Or we could just look at what the competitions camera's have now and in 5 years canon might be up to this point, MIGHT.
p.21 #6 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
For those that want this camera it seems a nice enough choice.
More and more, I think the issue with 4k isn't that this camera doesn't have it but NO Canon has it other than a couple of high end pro cameras.
Any store I walk into that sells cameras (at least a reasonable number) and I would bet there will be plenty of other brands that have 4k and some will be quite cheap.
As for the A7s, remember that is a camera from early 2014 and yet it has very good full hd video (and both FF and APSC) and can at least do 4k with a recorder (I would love to see more cameras like that to maybe help keep costs down so those who need 4k can still get it -it wont happen though as 4k will be in everything).
The A7s doesn't need be more than 12mp which is fine for most things, maybe just not huge prints and the high ISO is nice (I had a newspaper use a ISO 102400 shot as their Facebook cover page for a while recently) and while it can not track focus to save its life, the AFS is quite good and works in very low light and even (slowly) with Canon lenses. It can also shoot at 1/8000 and has a flash sync of 1/250.
Horses for courses and for those that want a mirror, the A7s can not give you that but equally the A7s can give you plenty of things the 6Dii can not.
I can use my Canon 17 TS-E walk around at night with an A7s , something I would not want to even attempt with a 6Dii.
p.21 #7 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Scoobert wrote:
Since you brought up the 4 YEAR OLD Nikon that cost A THOUSAND DOLLARS less, how does the 6dii compare to it.
nikon D610 released 2013
24.3 meg vs 26.2..... Wow you got em there canon
39 af points all grouped in the center, just like canon's 45. wtg canon you barely got another one.
1080P video with headphone out vs canon 1080 60P no headphone, would have cost to much to add that canon.
USB 2.0 compatibility just like the brand new canon, just to much tech going usb 3 for a 2000 dollar camera I guess.
100% view finder coverage, nope not for the brand new $2K canon. That would be a PRO feature
Sync speed 1/200 vs canons 1/180 yep another Pro feature reserved for canon cameras costing more than $2K, or crop camera's.
Dual card slots vs, You guessed it, Not for the $2K canon 6dii That's a pro feature reserved only for canon camera's cost MUCH more.
Good thing its got DPAF, a newer sensor and a tilt screen without them it would be the exact equal of a FOUR YEAR OLD CAMERA costing half the price of your fine state of the art beast.
You got them on the run canon, it only took you 5 years to beat a 4 year old camera. Cant wait to see what the 6diii brings in 2022. Or we could just look at what the competitions camera's have now and in 5 years canon might be up to this point, MIGHT.
Not that I disagree on the points above but at B&H the D610 costs $1500 today. Where can you buy it for $1000 less than the 6Dm2? (unless you are looking at refurb D610, which is not particularly fair).
p.21 #8 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
AlexDROP wrote:
Hi, Ralph.
What do you mean by "the biggest minus with 6D II"? Its VF is cristal clear and highly customizable it terms of display ifno. It may be adjusted to show almost nothing. Check user's manual p. 487-488, 79-82. The link is available on page 17 by Rusty1 (thanks indeed). http://support-th.canon-asia.com/contents/TH/EN/0302746901.html
Yes, one can adjust the VF to showing almost nothing. And I am sorry, you may be right. I did not look through a 6D IIs viefinder yet. Here it might be different. But I shot the 5D III and IV and the 1DX. If you switch of the power the viefinder is not clear (in all three cases as far I remember). And the AF confirmation of all VFs with electronic overlay still cause problems for me depending on the contrast in the shot.
But I am open for learning if I am wrong. I am pretty sure I will be one of the first checking the 6D II as soon it is available.
At this price point I would have also liked to see:
- Dual card slots (with UHS-II)
- AF point linked spot metering
- Bigger buffer
- Higher flash sync
- 100% VF coverage
- More than 3 frames bracketing
- Better AF (the -3.0 EV center point is only in single shot mode, continuous AF reduces that significantly both in the center and even more so at outer points)
Considering you could get a D750 a while ago for ~$1450 with an OEM grip, memory card, and a bag it's hard for me to see $2000 of value in the 6D II. I'm sure it'll be a fine camera, I just think they dropped the ball a little bit on this one. A few tweaks would have gone a long way towards improving it's value proposition IMHO, I think they were just a bit too worried about 5DM4 sales with this one....Show more →
Welcome back,
Thank you for listing the limitations of the 6D Mark II.
If you look closely at the list of features you find disappointing you might remember that these limitations aren't new for Canon. Same issues, new camera.
Unlike Nikon, you're not getting spot metering linked to AF point unless it's a 1D series. Unlike Nikon, you're not getting dual card slots for under 3K other than the disappointing 7D series. Unlike Nikon, Canon doesn't seem to throw in free battery grips. Unlike Nikon, Canon doesn't seem to care for a multitude of AF points. (But said points _are_ selectable.) The narrow spread of AF points isn't surprising since the system was designed for APS-C. (1.6 crop, not 1.5 like Nikon.)
The 6D from 2012 had -3 EV center point, we're you expecting an improvement?
Yes, it's disappointing. Very disappointing since I wanted to upgrade from my 6D. I guess I'll be getting a 5D Mark IV next. It almost seems like Canon is pushing me (and others with similar camera needs) to the next higher model.
It's frustrating watching Nikon have so many new offerings while I'm stuck with artificially limited cameras.
p.21 #10 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
bootster wrote:
I have a Canon Elura DV camcorder. It has the tilt flippy screen and I purchased it in 2000. I really thought all cameras were going to have it, as I really like the system a lot.
I, too, like the articulating display. I'm surprised it took so long to really become commonplace.
p.21 #11 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
notherenow wrote:
I can use my Canon 17 TS-E walk around at night with an A7s , something I would not want to even attempt with a 6Dii.
+1 @ the A7S is built for a different course designed to run strong on one end of the spectrum (i.e. good stuff). The 6D2 is built more for "middle of the road". The 5DsR is built for the other end of the spectrum (i.e. good stuff). Know your course, then choose your horse.
I wouldn't expect that the 6D2 would perform low light as well as the A7s ... but, I expect it'll hold up fairly well at better than many others would. I used a 6D to shoot the lantern walk @ Mammoth cave ... definitely revealed its strengths compared to others I had used before it. It won't ever be an A7s, it won't ever be a 5DsR (and I don't expect it to be either of those) ... but for highly versatile middle ground, I'm looking forward to it, just the same.
p.21 #12 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
RustyBug wrote:
Your point at 4K providing "headroom" ... sounds similar to 50MP in the 5DsR provides "headroom". That makes sense to the editing aspect as you've mentioned.
I get the "hoping" part that it might be better in the 6D II. I was "hoping" for dual slots, wider AF points and others were "hoping" for a joystick, etc. But, I was never "expecting" the FF entry platform to be everything I was "hoping" for. Actually, they did better than I expected in the fps arena, but not so well in the x-sync or UHS-1 arena (although, I can live with both).
As to the professional economics of video vs. stills ... I just don't see why folks would think that the entry level FF camera would be the right tool for professional video (i.e. 4K, etc.) any more / less than you would expect it to be the premier tool for professional sports photography (stills). Can it be used for sports, sure. Can it be used for video, sure. But I certainly wouldn't expect an entry level FF camera to offer top tier performance (i.e. 4K or 12+ fps) for $2,000 ... not any more than I would expect a Dodge Dart to come with a Hellcat engine. ...Show more →
Let's take the opposite. The Sony a9 does have a Hellcat engine. It has the best 4K video in an alpha camera to date, downsampled 6K with no pixel binning in full-frame. But....no Slog and picture profiles. What? That move limited the camera to being a legend all because to protect the cinema line. On top of that, a 5fps mechanical shutter. When camera companies make choices to protect their product stack, we all lose.
At this price point I would have also liked to see:
- Dual card slots (with UHS-II)
- AF point linked spot metering
- Bigger buffer
- Higher flash sync
- 100% VF coverage
- More than 3 frames bracketing
- Better AF (the -3.0 EV center point is only in single shot mode, continuous AF reduces that significantly both in the center and even more so at outer points)
Considering you could get a D750 a while ago for ~$1450 with an OEM grip, memory card, and a bag it's hard for me to see $2000 of value in the 6D II. I'm sure it'll be a fine camera, I just think they dropped the ball a little bit on this one. A few tweaks would have gone a long way towards improving it's value proposition IMHO, I think they were just a bit too worried about 5DM4 sales with this one....Show more →
HaHa....This is Canon we are talking about....if you really expected any of that stuff you were just delusional from the start.
p.21 #14 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Gee, this camera isn't released for sale yet and I can't find any road tests of it either but there are 28 pages of sometimes heated discussion on it and Canon's marketing strategies. I think we all need to remember this is an entry level FF camera, and be thankful that it has a lot more features than it's predecessor. My belief is that this will be another typical Canon DSLR offering, always capable of some little extra that's left out, but a camera that is nevertheless greater than the sum of it's parts. I'll reserve any criticisms I have until after I se how it performs.
p.21 #16 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Ferrophot wrote:
Gee, this camera isn't released for sale yet and I can't find any road tests of it either but there are 28 pages of sometimes heated discussion on it and Canon's marketing strategies. I think we all need to remember this is an entry level FF camera, and be thankful that it has a lot more features than it's predecessor. My belief is that this will be another typical Canon DSLR offering, always capable of some little extra that's left out, but a camera that is nevertheless greater than the sum of it's parts. I'll reserve any criticisms I have until after I se how it performs....Show more →
Great input.
Wenn I started the 6D thread 5 years ago (that became one of the longest threads I have seen here at FM, I told about my fascination for the low light - high ISO capabilities of the 6D and how great it fitted into my hands.
When it became available bashing started immediately: only 1 SD slot, mediocre AF System etc. During the thread there where dozends of photographers, who purchased or tested the camera and most of them seemed to be very impressed and happy.
Next to this it developed to one of the most succesful tool for people- and event photography. And it still sells excellent although it is already 5 years old now. And it still recievs highest ratings from photographers who purchased it. With 6D II Canon gave all those who did not exactly what the non buyers cried for. :-)
I am pretty sure the 6D II will become as - if not even more - successfull like/than its predecessor.
p.21 #17 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
arbitrage wrote:
HaHa....This is Canon we are talking about....if you really expected any of that stuff you were just delusional from the start.
I think we all knew it would be a long shot, that goes without saying. Every release is another opportunity to break old habits and earn them some good press though. Other brands are doing it already. Some of those are pretty minor things they could have done and not upset the rest of the lineup, but made a lot of people happy at the same time. Maybe for the next one...
p.21 #19 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
The original 6D was the straw that broke the camel's back for me and caused me to leave Canon after more than a decade of using their products. After years of putting up with their hobbling approach to their mid-range cameras, I jumped ship to Olympus and Sony for my small format and FF needs respectively. And I have been happy ever since.
All I can say is that in the 6DII, Canon is doing nothing to tempt me back. And this really represents five years of progress for them?
p.21 #20 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II
Ralph Conway wrote:
Great input.
Wenn I started the 6D thread 5 years ago (that became one of the longest threads I have seen here at FM, I told about my fascination for the low light - high ISO capabilities of the 6D and how great it fitted into my hands.
When it became available bashing started immediately: only 1 SD slot, mediocre AF System etc. During the thread there where dozends of photographers, who purchased or tested the camera and most of them seemed to be very impressed and happy.
Next to this it developed to one of the most succesful tool for people- and event photography. And it still sells excellent although it is already 5 years old now. And it still recievs highest ratings from photographers who purchased it. With 6D II Canon gave all those who did not exactly what the non buyers cried for. :-)
I am pretty sure the 6D II will become as - if not even more - successfull like/than its predecessor.
The 6D always had one thing really going for it, a truly good sensor.
The body is only average, the AF system archaic, the controls can be fiddly but the IQ, especially at high ISO was a new departure for Canon which is why I think the 6D has done so well for such a relatively humble camera.
I see the 6D2 as a progression from that which is not bad, it's just the other manufacturers have moved on considerably.
Of course the 6D2 will fly off the shelves, New Canons always do, but you can't help feeling they aren't really trying very hard
