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Archive 2017 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II

  
 
Everythingis1
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p.18 #1 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


ggreene wrote:
If only that were true. While sony has some amazing internal tech their body design leaves a lot to be desired. Look at the A9 for example. You can't change the width of the body so you are forced to jam your fingers into the narrow gap between the grip and all the 2.8 zooms plus the new 100-400. Look at your hand position on the A9 as well. It's all scrunched up because there is no room to give buttons decent spacing.

It sucks right now. Canon won't or can't match the A9 internal features and Sony won't or can't
...Show more

I don't get it, how the heck does this affect your photography? It makes absolutely zero difference unless you are trying to shoot one handed with a 70-200mm or larger lens which no body ever does, ever. I could see it you had some sort of range of motion limitation from a bad injury at your elbow or wrist or something. The size of the A7/9 line is its huge advantage and the main reason it is so successful in the market today. It makes most shooting easier, not harder.

Edited on Jul 02, 2017 at 05:17 PM · View previous versions



Jul 02, 2017 at 04:57 PM
RustyBug
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p.18 #2 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


Rusty1 wrote:
Instruction manual 6DII

http://support-th.canon-asia.com/contents/TH/EN/0302746901.html?



Thanks

Edited on Jul 02, 2017 at 07:32 PM · View previous versions



Jul 02, 2017 at 05:01 PM
RustyBug
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p.18 #3 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


Everythingis1 wrote:
EDIT: yes it is cropped, but it has as good or better image quality than the majority of Canon's full Frame DSLRs.


UWA fov



Jul 02, 2017 at 05:08 PM
pliukaitis
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p.18 #4 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


pliukait wrote:
Does anyone know:

a) does it do in-camera HDR?
b) what is the output, RAW, like the 5DIII or JPEG?


According to page 253 of the manual: http://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/products/details/cameras/dslr/eos-6d-mark-ii the HDR image is saved as a JPEG image, as does the 5DIII, but the 5DIII gives you the option of saving the raw images used to create the HDR image. The 6DII does not.



Edited on Jul 02, 2017 at 05:23 PM · View previous versions



Jul 02, 2017 at 05:14 PM
Everythingis1
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p.18 #5 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


RustyBug wrote:
Ummm, I DID buy the battery grip and it DID NOT fix things. Again, you speak of things you know nothing about.

Umm, again, the A6500 is NOT FF ... what part of that don't you get. The ONLY way you can compare apples to apples with the 6D2 to other cameras in the market is to compare it to other FF cameras ... unless you want to truly open it up to all cameras, then there's everything from P&S to large format film. Keeping apples to apples starts with keeping it at FF as a baseline requirement.



The size of Sony's mirror-less cameras are the absolute number 1 reason for their success in breaking into the market. The only people who complain about it are in the extreme minority and generally only complain about it since they aren't interested in the cameras at all anyways. Did you ever try the mark II versions of any of the A7 cameras with a battery grip? To most people the size and weight of DSLR's are the biggest downside apart from the EVF and now lack of comparable video capabilities.

The A6500 being a crop camera is much less of a differentiation because canon 4k video has the same crop factor with worse quality, and it's image quality at iso 3200 and below is nearly the exact same. When you take into account the glut of features, even when comparing it to a $3000 FF camera, it makes sense for it to be included in a comparison. Fact of the matter is the small difference in depth of field matters substantially less to many than the over all size, picture, and video quality.



Jul 02, 2017 at 05:15 PM
ggreene
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p.18 #6 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


Everythingis1 wrote:
I don't get it, how the heck does this affect your photography? It makes absolutely zero difference unless you are trying to shoot one handed with a 70-200mm or larger lens which no body ever does, ever. I could see it you had some sort of range of motion limitation from a bad injury at your elbow or wrist or something. The size of the A7/9 line is its huge advantage and the main reason it is so successful in the market today. It makes most shooting easier, not harder.


Try lugging it around for 6-8 hours with your fingers constantly rubbing up against the edge of the Sony lenses. That's not going to be a comfortable way to shoot. All they had to do was make the body slightly wider and it would have resolved the whole issue but Sony is hung up on being small.

A 1/2" to 3/4" wider would have still kept the body very compact yet make it far more comfortable to hold. Almost every review on the A9 says it would have been nice if it was a little larger. We can only hope that Sony listens and finally has a decent body in an A9mk2.




Jul 02, 2017 at 05:46 PM
Red Marx
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p.18 #7 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


Everythingis1 wrote:
EDIT: yes it is cropped, but it has as good or better image quality than the majority of Canon's full Frame DSLRs.

RustyBug wrote:
UWA fov


Perhaps he's thinking of a fisheye? ;-)



Jul 02, 2017 at 05:47 PM
Red Marx
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p.18 #8 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II



ggreene wrote:
Try lugging it around for 6-8 hours with your fingers constantly rubbing up against the edge of the Sony lenses. That's not going to be a comfortable way to shoot. All they had to do was make the body slightly wider and it would have resolved the whole issue but Sony is hung up on being small.

A 1/2" to 3/4" wider would have still kept the body very compact yet make it far more comfortable to hold. Almost every review on the A9 says it would have been nice if it was a little larger. We can only hope that
...Show more
+1
I have that same issue with my SL1. I hope that the larger grip and .22" increase in overall width for the SL2 will alleviate the discomfort.

Side note: Is this topic only posted in the Latest Gear and Canon Gear forums?



Jul 02, 2017 at 05:52 PM
rattlebonez
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p.18 #9 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


The unusable ergonomics of Sony cameras is the reason to not buy one


Jul 02, 2017 at 05:54 PM
Everythingis1
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p.18 #10 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


The vast, vast majority of people feel the exact opposite. Nearly everyone feels that it is substantially more of a pain to lug a huge DSLR around for 6-8 hours than a Sony mirror-less camera; again almost the sole reason they have been successful. It even appears that many people who like the fact that DSLR's are bigger is just because they "look more professional". I've used many brands of camera and I found Sony's to be the most ergonomic and customizable.


Jul 02, 2017 at 06:03 PM
Red Marx
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p.18 #11 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II




Ubtree wrote:
I have been waiting for the launch of the 6D MkII before deciding on a replacement for my 5D MkII.

When launched, the 5D seemed to have been designed with the landscape photographer in mind, but the introduction of video to the 5D MkII changed its nature, and the MkIV has more bells and whistles than I need. So for me, it could be that it would be sensible to move from the 5DMk II to a 6D MkII, rather than to a 5D MKIV.

I have therefore been comparing the detailed specifications of the 6D MkII and the 5D MkIV, and
...Show more

Thank you for taking the time to illustrate many of the differences between the 6D Mark II and the 5D Mark IV.

I wanted to address a few things from your post. Regarding the exposure meter comment that you made, I believe you'll find the answer to whether or not it was a typographical error on Canon's part of you look at the exposure meter for the 80D.
I'm confused by your statement of white balance not being available in the 6D Mark II. In the viewfinder? Anywhere? Are you implying that only the 5D Mark IV has AWB-W?

One missing item on your list is x-sync speed.

Thank you again for taking the time to create a comparison. Also, thank you for omitting the video aspects. :-)



Jul 02, 2017 at 06:12 PM
Red Marx
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p.18 #12 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II



Everythingis1 wrote:
The vast, vast majority of people feel the exact opposite. Nearly everyone feels that it is substantially more of a pain to lug a huge DSLR around for 6-8 hours than a Sony mirror-less camera; again almost the sole reason they have been successful. It even appears that many people who like the fact that DSLR's are bigger is just because they "look more professional". I've used many brands of camera and I found Sony's to be the most ergonomic and customizable.


I lament not having small knuckles every time I use the SL1 with the EF 35 f/2 IS. :-)



Jul 02, 2017 at 06:13 PM
rattlebonez
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p.18 #13 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


Trying to hold a Sony body attached with adapter on 400mm F4 DO IS II does not work

Sony fail.
Nothing to hold on to for lens stability
Same for 100-400 II




Jul 02, 2017 at 06:21 PM
rattlebonez
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p.18 #14 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


6D II will be usable size for bigger lenses


Jul 02, 2017 at 06:32 PM
RustyBug
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p.18 #15 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


Everythingis1 wrote:

Did you ever try the mark II versions of any of the A7 cameras with a battery grip? To most people the size and weight of DSLR's are the biggest downside apart from the EVF and now lack of comparable video capabilities.

The A6500 being a crop camera is much less of a differentiation because canon 4k video has the same crop factor with worse quality, and it's image quality at iso 3200 and below is nearly the exact same. When you take into account the glut of features, even when comparing it to a $3000 FF camera, it
...Show more

1) Check the archives around the time the Sony A7R II came out. You'll find that I gave significant credence to the improvement in the grip of A7R II vs the A7R. That didn't change things sufficiently regarding other ergonomoic factors of the MILC platform.

2) You say the crop factor doesn't matter because Canon video is based on similar size ... ummm, what about FF stills? You act like the primary issue for the 6D series is video and continue to discount the fact that the entire basis for the 6D series is to provide an entry level FF stills platform, first and foremost.

It's as if you want the discussion to be about 4K video ... rather than about the 6D series, specifically the 6D2 and what it brings to the market. Go start a 4K video thread, and you can mix & match criteria of crop vs. FF vs. cell phones vs. dedicated video, etc. all day long.

If a person truly has their PRIMARY purpose as a hard requirement for 4K video ... ummm, move on ... nothing to see here. If your PRIMARY purpose is to have a FF camera (stills inferred) in the entry arena, 6D2 is something worth taking a gander at ... like it, love it or leave it ... it is what it is, and it's NOT a crop camera, nor a 4K video camera ... it's a FF camera. I don't get why folks keep trying to compare it to crop cameras, etc.






Jul 02, 2017 at 06:36 PM
George Orwell
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p.18 #16 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


RustyBug wrote:
I don't get why folks keep trying to compare it to crop cameras, etc.



Because their "argument" completely falls apart if they try to compare it to another FF camera.




Jul 02, 2017 at 06:43 PM
worldexclus1ve
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p.18 #17 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


Ralph Conway wrote:
My clients pay me 1000 - 2000 bucks a day shooting stills. None of them did ever pay me a single Euro for shooting video, nor asked for it. If they do, my first question would be, if they want 4K. Nobody who is not in pro Film production really needs it. Most clients can not handle it up to date. But If they want 4k and pay me 1-2k a day I would rent a 5D IV for 75 Euro a day immediatelly. If they would ask for it 15-20 times a year, I might purchase one.

Conny


Since you're a stills person, you're not understanding how video works. You can deliver 4K downsampled video, cropped video, without losing quality. Similar to shooting in crop mode for stills, 4K allows more flexibility to crop/punch in to create different camera angle or effect in 1080p. Don't think in terms of a client needing 4K, think in terms of the professional that's editing the video to be more creative with their work. Also, video shoots can pay just as much as the most expensive commercial stills shoot and more. Canon's 4K files and extreme crop are a pain to work with, making the 5DIV not a good option. We were hoping Canon would be more forgiving with the 6DII.

Edited on Jul 02, 2017 at 06:49 PM · View previous versions



Jul 02, 2017 at 06:45 PM
RustyBug
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p.18 #18 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


RustyBug wrote:
UWA fov


Everythingis1 wrote:
EDIT: yes it is cropped, but it has as good or better image quality than the majority of Canon's full Frame DSLRs.


Red Marx wrote:
Perhaps he's thinking of a fisheye? ;-)


Ultra Wide Angle ... I'm not a fisheye fan.

16mm lens on FF = 16mm
16mm lens on 1.5X crop = 24mm

In order to achieve a similar fov on crop body, you have to have an 11mm lens ... and to achieve an 11mm fov you'd have to have a 7mm lens, etc.

In the case of a crop camera, I'd have to get an 11mm lens to equate to my 16-35/4 IS. To get the same IQ and performance in an 11mm lens is an additional expense and gear to manage. Having FF lets you get widest fov out of your (FF) glass. Sure, there are crop sized lenses ... but, apples to apples means keeping it at FF vs. FF ... I mean, after all the original beef presented was that the 6D2 was a FF without 4K video ... i.e. FF is the foremost requisite parameter.



Jul 02, 2017 at 06:48 PM
RustyBug
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p.18 #19 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


Everythingis1 wrote:
The vast, vast majority of people feel the exact opposite. Nearly everyone feels that it is substantially more of a pain to lug a huge DSLR around for 6-8 hours than a Sony mirror-less camera; again almost the sole reason they have been successful. It even appears that many people who like the fact that DSLR's are bigger is just because they "look more professional". I've used many brands of camera and I found Sony's to be the most ergonomic and customizable.


I found the Sony Alpha SLT series bodies to be the most ergonomic form to fit my hand. Sony (on their former website) even advocated and touted the great lengths they went to to study the ergonomics of the hand. The MILC ... totally different animal, not even remotely close. For some folks, they like the MILC .. that's cool. But, that doesn't mean it works for everyone. There are a lot of folks that it does NOT work for.

Your claim that the vast majority of people feel the exact opposite ... cool, let the vast majority use it. What does that have to do with the 6D2? or 4K video in a FF for $2,000?



Jul 02, 2017 at 06:54 PM
RustyBug
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p.18 #20 · Official: Canon Announces the EOS 6D Mark II


worldexclus1ve wrote:
Since you're a stills person, you're not understanding how video works. You can deliver 4K downsampled video, cropped video, without losing quality. Similar to shooting in crop mode for stills, 4K allows more flexibility to crop/punch in to create different camera angle or effect in 1080p. Don't think in terms of a client needing 4K, think in terms of the professional that's editing the video to be more creative with their work. Also, video shoots can pay just as much as the most expensive commercial stills shoot and more. Canon's 4K files and extreme crop are a pain to work
...Show more

Your point at 4K providing "headroom" ... sounds similar to 50MP in the 5DsR provides "headroom". That makes sense to the editing aspect as you've mentioned.

I get the "hoping" part that it might be better in the 6D II. I was "hoping" for dual slots, wider AF points and others were "hoping" for a joystick, etc. But, I was never "expecting" the FF entry platform to be everything I was "hoping" for. Actually, they did better than I expected in the fps arena, but not so well in the x-sync or UHS-1 arena (although, I can live with both).

As to the professional economics of video vs. stills ... I just don't see why folks would think that the entry level FF camera would be the right tool for professional video (i.e. 4K, etc.) any more / less than you would expect it to be the premier tool for professional sports photography (stills). Can it be used for sports, sure. Can it be used for video, sure. But I certainly wouldn't expect an entry level FF camera to offer top tier performance (i.e. 4K or 12+ fps) for $2,000 ... not any more than I would expect a Dodge Dart to come with a Hellcat engine.



Jul 02, 2017 at 07:02 PM
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