p.11 #1 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action
mcbroomf wrote:
I would love to know the impact this mod has on some excellent wide e-mount lenses; eg 21mm Loxia, 18 and 25mm Batis and the newest 10,12,15mm VC. This would help understand if it's possible to mix and match.
Strictly anecdotal, but I compared the Batis 25 and FE 35/2.8 on a V2 Kolari a7 at infinity focus.
The rangefinder lens on stock a7 cameras produces an outward field curvature and to focus the corners focus needs to be pulled back closer a bit. My Batis 25 on a stock a7 is flat with no need to refocus the corners, as one would expect. But, on the V2 Kolari a7 with Batis 25, corner focus needed to be adjusted toward infinity, the opposite focus correction of the RF lens on stock a7. In practice, it was a small difference and could be covered up with a stop or 2 down, or strategic focusing, but never the less there.
Planar is really ripping. You have to wonder how much is loosing the AA which the stock A7 does have. I doubt you will find a film lens which is not happier with either v2 or UT on the plain A7.
Naturally the loss of AA is not going to make up for what happens to the FE lenses tuned to all that glass over the sensor, but it would be fun to see a Canikon zoom or whatever. Knowing your shooting I'm interested to see if you will notice bokeh changes in your favorite lenses, like that 35 Lux
JimBuchanan wrote:
Strictly anecdotal, but I compared the Batis 25 and FE 35/2.8 on a V2 Kolari a7 at infinity focus.
The rangefinder lens on stock a7 cameras produces an outward field curvature and to focus the corners focus needs to be pulled back closer a bit. My Batis 25 on a stock a7 is flat with no need to refocus the corners, as one would expect. But, on the V2 Kolari a7 with Batis 25, corner focus needed to be adjusted toward infinity, the opposite focus correction of the RF lens on stock a7. In practice, it was a small difference and could be covered up with a stop or 2 down, or strategic focusing, but never the less there. ...Show more →
Jim, once you made the focus adjustment, how would you say Baits 25 performance was effected by v2? Well I guess you are pretty clear, when I read you carefully. TY for that.
But I have to wonder with both at F/8 could you see it? I would guess a real close look would still show some loss.
p.11 #10 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action
uhoh7 wrote:
Great comparisons, Derek. TY
Planar is really ripping. You have to wonder how much is loosing the AA which the stock A7 does have. I doubt you will find a film lens which is not happier with either v2 or UT on the plain A7.
Naturally the loss of AA is not going to make up for what happens to the FE lenses tuned to all that glass over the sensor, but it would be fun to see a Canikon zoom or whatever. Knowing your shooting I'm interested to see if you will notice bokeh changes in your favorite lenses, like that 35 Lux ...Show more →
you can get an idea of how much is due to the lack AA filter vs how much is due to the sensor stack by comparing to the middle of the frame, where any difference should be mostly due to the lack of AA filter.
i haven't noticed any big differences in bokeh, unless you count reduction in field curvature. in which case there is a lot of improvement for some lenses. i haven't really looked closely at bokeh yet though.
p.11 #11 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action
i met up with JonPB today, who was nice enough let me compare a number of lenses on my a7 kolari UT with his m9. i'll probably start a separate thread later, but here is a quick result with the 35 lux FLE.
i believe Jon focused to the infinity stop on his m9 whereas i focused on the trees that were ~50m away. this looks to have produced a minor focus difference. it looks to me like the UT matches the m9 though...
p.11 #12 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action
Interesting, Derek and JonPB, thank you guys
I would note the FLE was one of the better M 35mm lenses on the stock A7, if memory serves.
In those shots the UT is killing--well beating anyway-- the M9 to my eye, which makes me think the M9 is a touch out of calibration, possibly going past infinity. Just a guess though.
I think with M9 it's not a bad idea to shoot one at the stop and then back off a touch and shoot another.
Looking at the buildings in the distance, the M9 is looking decent, but the people in the garden are not quite the same, but maybe that's the exposure, as the M9 seems to be straining and more glowy. I did not check your shutter.
Anyway the UT is looking very good there, and WB seems basically similar. So a very positive result I think.
Someday we can find a 240 and that will be very interesting.
p.11 #13 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action
uhoh7 wrote:
Interesting, Derek
I would note the FLE was one of the better lenses on the stock A7, if memory serves.
it's good, but has dramatic field curvature on the stock a7.
uhoh7 wrote:
In those shots the UT is killing--well beating anyway-- the M9 to my eye, which makes me think the M9 is a touch out of calibration, possibly going past infinity. Just a guess though.
I think with M9 it's not a bad idea to shoot one at the stop and then back off a touch and shoot another.
it looks to me in the full sized images like the m9 shot has better focus on the distant building while the a7 UT has better focus on the trees that are included in the crops. i think that plus the higher pixel count account for most of the difference. i also shot with JonPB's 21/2.8 ASPH and it looks great on the UT, no real outward field curvature (unlike the g21).
p.11 #14 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action
The 21/2.8 asph is a great lens. I'd love to see that on a A7.UT vs FE Zeiss 21/2.8 also on original A7, stock. That would be quite telling. My money would be on the UT/Leica, but I know many would bet on the Zeiss, which is arguably the most worshipped native at the moment.
A ballpark comparison could be made from good infinity shots in different locations even. Who has the Zeiss and a original A7?
WO on paper the Zeiss should murder the Leica, though I never saw such a shot as described in the Zeiss f/2.8 (not shown) chart when I was looking at samples, but that doesn't mean it can't do it. At 5.6 things are quite interesting. On paper the Zeiss should win, but it might be hard to see, and without the AA maybe the Leica wins with plain A7. If so that would be news.
Since in-camera lens corrections are a big factor with Sony natives, I wonder how such a chart is made.
Re-reading reviews of the Loxia, it seems to be the WA benchmark without doubt for the stock cameras. I can't find any lensrentals tests, though, which is curious, after all this time. But it seems great, all the more reason to measure against it
p.11 #15 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action
uhoh7 wrote:
I would note the FLE was one of the better M 35mm lenses on the stock A7, if memory serves.
Well Bastian published his shorter review of the FLE 1.4/35 on the a7rii a few days ago and both the CV35 and ZM35 outperform it any any category but size and handling: Weak flare resistance, a bit harsher bokeh with some onion, lower sharpness, a bit stronger vignetting, more CA, less defined sunstars, more distortion and focus shift. The sharpness part has certainly to do with the filter stack but also on the UT mod the ZM and VC are much stronger performers at wider apertures as Derek has demonstrated.
p.11 #16 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action
Phillip Reeve wrote:
Well Bastian published his shorter review of the FLE 1.4/35 on the a7rii a few days ago and both the CV35 and ZM35 outperform it any any category but size and handling: Weak flare resistance, a bit harsher bokeh with some onion, lower sharpness, a bit stronger vignetting, more CA, less defined sunstars, more distortion and focus shift. The sharpness part has certainly to do with the filter stack but also on the UT mod the ZM and VC are much stronger performers at wider apertures as Derek has demonstrated.
on the UT mod the sharpness difference seems pretty negligible (at least to me). i wouldn't choose the FLE, ultron, or distagon over the other for sharpness. in a surprise to nobody they all beat the 50 year old pre-asph lux for sharpness at infinity. it still wins the "nicest lens to carry" prize though along with the "most likely to take a picture of a family member that they like" prize though...
p.11 #17 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action
Phillip Reeve wrote:
Well Bastian published his shorter review of the FLE 1.4/35 on the a7rii a few days ago and both the CV35 and ZM35 outperform it any any category but size and handling: Weak flare resistance, a bit harsher bokeh with some onion, lower sharpness, a bit stronger vignetting, more CA, less defined sunstars, more distortion and focus shift. The sharpness part has certainly to do with the filter stack but also on the UT mod the ZM and VC are much stronger performers at wider apertures as Derek has demonstrated.
Neither lens was available when the A7 first appeared, which is when I was really looking closely, and why I used the past tense and "memory serves", but I should have been more clear. I have no doubt both the CV 35/1.7 and ZM 35/1.4 are better than FLE with stock cameras. I admire the testing you have been doing on your site
In the fall of 2013 the FLE was still worth a small fortune, but there were some very nice samples made with it and posted on flickr which showed nice edges and even sharpness, but they must have been stopped down, or with subjects which matched the FC.
This could be me, in my quest for proper M performance on Sony :
Another shoot with v2, UT and M9 all in use. The UT WB alternated from superior to "out there" What I am beginning to love about it is how it seems to render skin, apart from color. I never saw the Rokkor or TE 90 thin look quite like this
The UT A7 raws behave very differently in LR for me. Very high sensitivity to some sliders, and sometimes the .5 jumps seem huge. I must type in the increments at times. Then I will find myself pulling down the saturation or luminance of various colors way down after my edits for brightness and shadows. What is increasingly apparent is the files are responsive and come up with all sorts of looks I never saw before . BW is very good.
But in this shoot again, I would see AWB suddenly go very hot when shot in a particular direction. Reflection? I don't know but, variability is greater than stock or V2, with the test UT I have.
p.11 #18 · First Sighting: A7rii Thin filter in action
PS I was looking at the "hot" shots from the UT. At AWB they almost all were coming in with temps higher than the more normal looking shots, and in most simply bringing the temp down from say 5500 to 4200, gave a similar look. Still I had a few outliers, which seem to have grabbed something besides just a hotter temp.
Simply bringing that down still left a "washed" look, but really blue. It was responsive to editing, though I could not fully recover it to what the same lens was doing in the last post. The last shot in the previous thread is nice, for me, though I would desaturate a bit further on review.
I stopped here with this one.: DSC01375-2 by unoh7, on Flickr
The M9 was not making shots to my taste here either. Here it with a similar angle. These were coming in OOC at 4200. They seemed to have the same range of tonal variety as the "normal" UT shots, though less saturated, and with a somewhat different mix.
This has some editing, so should be compared to second UT shot, though it was nothing like the first UT shot unedited.
Now another variable is speed and the 28 cron is stopped down, while the 90 TE, which is famous for flare, is near WO, where it also has low contrast. If you look at the last TE shot in the previous post, though, it's clear something "happened". Flare of some sort could explain that. The lens cannot be used without a serious hood and is WAY more strange with flaring than any 90 or 100 I have.
The magenta in her jacket is really different. Next time I will use the 90 Summarit which does not change like the TE at faster apertures and has no where near the weird antics of the TE with the sun.
In short during this shoot the UT gave me some of my best shots and also my worst.
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