GMPhotography wrote:
As far as bokeh a lot of these tests are against a longer lens to start with so a 85 regardless of lens will be slightly better. I think during a 55 1.8 might give us better insight to this since it's only 10 mm longer than the 85 which is 20 mm longer. I think it's worth a test just to get a idea of the other way. Not many 65 to compare too
Good thought. I no longer have the 55/1.8 since I sold it after I got the 50/2 Loxia. I could compare with the Leica 75/2 tho....
GMPhotography wrote:
As far as bokeh a lot of these tests are against a longer lens to start with so a 85 regardless of lens will be slightly better. I think during a 55 1.8 might give us better insight to this since it's only 10 mm longer than the 85 which is 20 mm longer. I think it's worth a test just to get a idea of the other way. Not many 65 to compare too
Guy, another alternative that is relatively close in FL range might be Leica's and CV's 75mm lenses like Stephen's 75 APO Cron or a Summarit 75.
I have this FL closely bracketed by the CZ SP60/2.8 C/Y and the Sigma 70/2.8, both 1:1 macro. For an exact FL match, there's the Leitz Elmar-V 65/3.5 macro but you need the Visoflex focussing helical OTZFO and adapter. None of these will match a modern C/V APO, of course.
Chris_88 wrote:
Guy, another alternative that is relatively close in FL range might be Leica's and CV's 75mm lenses like Stephen's 75 APO Cron or a Summarit 75.
Summarit 75 would be interesting; it can be had cheaper sometimes (at least the f2.5 version in new-old stock) , it's smaller and lighter. I have one and it's a wonderful piece of glass. It does have a bit of spherochromatism showing up as colour in the bokeh balls wide open that the CV doesn't have. Other than that it's pretty flawless. Of course the MFD is pretty crap unless you use it on a helicoid adapter.
DavidBM wrote:
Summarit 75 would be interesting; it can be had cheaper sometimes (at least the f2.5 version in new-old stock) , it's smaller and lighter. I have one and it's a wonderful piece of glass. It does have a bit of spherochromatism showing up as colour in the bokeh balls wide open that the CV doesn't have. Other than that it's pretty flawless. Of course the MFD is pretty crap unless you use it on a helicoid adapter.
I've never tested the Summarit 75/2.5 but if it's anything like the longer Summarit 90/2.5 or f/2.4, it's superb a close distances but not so great at infinity. From the samples I've seen, the CV 65/2 is a superior lens but worth the comparison.
I ordered the CV 65/2 APO from my local dealer (CameraQuest) and should have it tomorrow. I can test it against the 55/1.8 ZA, 50/1.4 ZA, Loxia 50/2, ZM 85/4 and Loxia 85/1.8 even though the 65mm focal length is unique here.
If it even comes close to the Batis 135 I'll be thrilled. My Sony 85 1.8 is damn good on center. I want a really sharp lens in this focal for product work too.
Fred Miranda wrote:
I've never tested the Summarit 75/2.5 but if it's anything like the longer Summarit 90/2.5 or f/2.4, it's superb a close distances but not so great at infinity. From the samples I've seen, the CV 65/2 is a superior lens but worth the comparison.
I ordered the CV 65/2 APO from my local dealer (CameraQuest) and should have it tomorrow. I can test it against the 55/1.8 ZA, 50/1.4 ZA, Loxia 50/2, ZM 85/4 and Loxia 85/1.8 even though the 65mm focal length is unique here.
Looking forward to your impressions. A nitpick--did you mean the Sony 85/1.8 or the Loxia 85/2.4 or?
Luvwine wrote:
Looking forward to your impressions. A nitpick--did you mean the Sony 85/1.8 or the Loxia 85/2.4 or?
My bad. I meant Batis 85. it's not really loved by the alt group but I swear by this lens at infinity distance. If the CV 65/2 comes close, I will be impressed.
Fred Miranda wrote:
My bad. I meant Batis 85. it's not really loved by the alt group but I swear by this lens at infinity distance. If the CV 65/2 comes close, I will be impressed.
I have never had the Batis 85, but prepare to be impressed
Fred Miranda wrote:
I've never tested the Summarit 75/2.5 but if it's anything like the longer Summarit 90/2.5 or f/2.4, it's superb a close distances but not so great at infinity. From the samples I've seen, the CV 65/2 is a superior lens but worth the comparison.
I ordered the CV 65/2 APO from my local dealer (CameraQuest) and should have it tomorrow. I can test it against the 55/1.8 ZA, 50/1.4 ZA, Loxia 50/2, ZM 85/4 and Loxia 85/1.8 even though the 65mm focal length is unique here.
The Summarit 2.5/75 is terrific at infinity: I haven't used the 90 (or the 35 and 50) , but the general view is that the 75 is by far the best of the four Summarit siblings. It looks like a longer Loxia 50 stopped down, and is a bit better at wider apertures. I do think the CV looks to have even better colour correction. It may be sharper at infninity too, but I'm by no means sure.
You can see from Leica's own MTF that the 75 is considerably better than the 90 at f5.6; indeed over most of the field bar the extremes the 75 is pretty similar wide open to the 90 at f5.6!
DavidBM wrote:
The Summarit 2.5/75 is terrific at infinity: I haven't used the 90 (or the 35 and 50) , but the general view is that the 75 is by far the best of the four Summarit siblings. It looks like a longer Loxia 50 stopped down, and is a bit better at wider apertures. I do think the CV looks to have even better colour correction. It may be sharper at infninity too, but I'm by no means sure.
You can see from Leica's own MTF that the 75 is considerably better than the 90 at f5.6; indeed over most of the field bar the extremes the 75 is pretty similar wide open to the 90 at f5.6!...Show more →
I tried both Summarit 90/2.4 and 90/2.5 versions. The copies were well centered and optically similar at infinity. There was too much astigmatism at mid and edges. I was being nice when I said it was not great.
On the other hand, the Summicron 90mm f/2 ASPH is superb at infinity although with lower contrast compared to the Loxia 85/2.4 and Batis 85/1.8.
If the 75/2.5 is terrific and I don't doubt it is, it's a complete different beast.
Fred Miranda wrote:
I tried the both Summarit 90/2.4 and 90/2.5 versions. The copies were well centered and optically similar at infinity. There was too much astigmatism at mid and edges. I was being nice when I said it was not great. The Summicron 90mm f/2 ASPH is superb at infinity although with lower contrast compared to the Loxia 85/2.4 and Batis 85/1.8.
If the 75/2.5 is terrific, it's a complete different beast.
I think it is a complete different beast, which mystifies me. Leicaphiles say it performs like a slower and slightly less colour corrected version of the 75APO (which in turn, FWIW, is often thought to be the best Leica lens).
As you can see from the f5.6 MTF, the highest frequency lines start out at about 80% on the 75, closer to 70% on the 90.
The lines stay together on the 75 until 15mm, is slight divergence, and neither line ever goes down to 60% except after 20mm where they meet.
By contrast the saggital MTF of the 90 hits 60% at 10mm and never recovers, with a midfield low near 40%
This is massively different performance. I haven't compared them myself, but the in use 75 does seem to live up to the MTF. Overall (accepting that between manufactuer MTF comparisons are shaky) the 75 looks as though it should perform better than the ZM85 but not quite as well as the B85. And that's roughly my impression in use - but I haven't tested closely to confirm.
Just why two lenses in the same line released at the same time at similar focal length should perform so differently is a bit baffling. But the MTFs, and putting together your and my experience, says it is so. Maybe 75 is an ease of design sweetspot?
125/2.5 CV or 135/2 APO Ziess
65/2 APO CV
35/1.4 ZM
21/2.8 Lox
10/5.6 CV
That would be a pretty awesome (though somewhat heavy) very wide to short tele kit for the A7RII.
I'm curious to see if MS Optic's Aporis 135/2.5 can compare with the APO-Sonnar. He posted about purchasing fluorite elements from Optron-Canon to help him keep it small and it's got manual FLE controls for coma and SA. It looks like a supremely fussy lens, and, were it available for rent, I would've already tried it, but it would have to be purchased and I'm not sure I'm $1200-1500 curious.
DavidBM wrote:
The Summarit 2.5/75 is terrific at infinity: I haven't used the 90 (or the 35 and 50) , but the general view is that the 75 is by far the best of the four Summarit siblings. It looks like a longer Loxia 50 stopped down, and is a bit better at wider apertures. I do think the CV looks to have even better colour correction. It may be sharper at infninity too, but I'm by no means sure.
You can see from Leica's own MTF that the 75 is considerably better than the 90 at f5.6; indeed over most of the field bar the extremes the 75 is pretty similar wide open to the 90 at f5.6!...Show more →
The 50 and 75 are certainly the Summarit "gems". The 35's tiny, so it's got that going for it, but I'd take the Biogon-C 35/2.8 over it, even on a stock a7rII. Or even a really good copy of Sony's 35/2.8.
