p.6 #1 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Jman13 wrote:
Heck, I've been trying for years to correct the fallacy that longer focal lengths change perspective. Especially egregious is when they say they like FF because an 85mm lens has a more flattering perspective and compression vs. a 55mm lens on APS-C. (If you believe that, you're wrong...perspective is solely a function of distance).
Longer focal lengths (more specifically their larger physical aperture sizes) do increase the amount of background blur, which is what many notice over DOF and often mistake for it.
p.6 #2 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
rscheffler wrote:
The interesting thing will be to see where the corners have been cut to hit this price point relative to the MF back style systems.
snapsy wrote:
I suspect removing the mirror and discrete PDAF mechanisms saves quite a bit of cost.
I wonder why the Sony a7RII isn't half the price of the Nikon D810?
There's probably massive margins on the traditional SLR and interchangeable MF DB systems. Considering the low volumes, there has to be. The price point of this new camera breaks into new territory for Hasselblad, currently occupied by Ricoh/Pentax in MF digital and Canikony in FF35. The pie is getting smaller and the slices thinner and ever more niche. For Hassy to move out of their doldrums, they need to find broader popular appeal. It's not going to happen at $15-20K+ and definitely not with rebadged Sonys. Those spending ~$10-15K on higher end FF mirrorless and DSLR systems, chasing diminishing returns as it is already, but never satisfied, are probably a good target to start with, and also at Pentax's probable expense.
Right now this Hassy feels a lot like a Sony product to me. Looks great in the photos and on paper (still TBD). It's going to be a matter of interpreting the spec sheet stats to tweeze out possible gotchas, then waiting for early adopter feedback to find the warts hiding under the shiny surface. Or maybe it will be as perfect as can be for a first-gen product.
p.6 #3 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
I'm not talking about blur or depth of field at all here.
snapsy wrote:
Longer focal lengths (more specifically their larger physical aperture sizes) do increase the amount of background blur, which is what many notice over DOF and often mistake for it.
p.6 #5 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
rscheffler wrote:
I wonder why the Sony a7RII isn't half the price of the Nikon D810?
There's probably massive margins on the traditional SLR and interchangeable MF DB systems. Considering the low volumes, there has to be. The price point of this new camera breaks into new territory for Hasselblad, currently occupied by Ricoh/Pentax in MF digital and Canikony in FF35. The pie is getting smaller and the slices thinner and ever more niche. For Hassy to move out of their doldrums, they need to find broader popular appeal. It's not going to happen at $15-20K+ and definitely not with rebadged Sonys. Those spending ~$10-15K on higher end FF mirrorless and DSLR systems, chasing diminishing returns as it is already, but never satisfied, are probably a good target to start with, and also at Pentax's probable expense.
Right now this Hassy feels a lot like a Sony product to me. Looks great in the photos and on paper (still TBD). It's going to be a matter of interpreting the spec sheet stats to tweeze out possible gotchas, then waiting for early adopter feedback to find the warts hiding under the shiny surface. Or maybe it will be as perfect as can be for a first-gen product. ...Show more →
Mirrorless provide higher gross margins (net of R&D amortization) - how the manufacturers decide to use that is naturally a competitive decision. Sony certainly had a lot more leeway on price because of this, considering how they blew out the first-generation FF bodies at firesale prices during the 50% employee discount push.
p.6 #8 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
rscheffler wrote:
Ryan, the assumption of course is Hassy will bring out those UWA lenses. Right now the camera is like the original a7 from Sony... a couple lenses to get you going and probably the assumption of lens adaptability for the rest or your current needs, assuming there's a suitable shutter option, etc. You can buy it to shoot alongside your Pentax and slowly transition to Hasselblad as the desired lenses materialize. Seems to be very much how things are working for Sony. Initially everyone wanted to and had to adapt lenses to them, now it seems most prefer the convenience of native lens mount support....Show more →
I'm sure that's the plan, but I'm always hesitant to just hope a lens I desperately need will be released by a company when buying into a system
Hopefully a lens roadmap will follow the announcement. I agree that adapting lenses is a cool option to have, but native lenses are where it's at for me
p.6 #10 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Here is the thing when you buy Medium format you get really two choices well you get three but ONe is you buy a back and you can go two ways with it either on a DSLR style or you can really put the pedal down and get a tech cam. I had both and 5 different backs over a several year period. Biggest problem was the DSLR style the lenses where good but they never exceeded the tech cam lenses and they are both very expensive, now the body was not cheap either and really not even close to anything in 35. Now these are the most expensive options . Let's say anywhere for a nice kit 30-50 k new. than you have a reasonably priced Pentax but again a full kit let's say 15-20 K depending on your kit. That's the cheapest. Than Leica S which maybe and can be the most expensive option and trust me I shot it several times. Awesome lenses body just okay but costs are out there and you have to question it. Now none of them are like this Hassy it's far smaller and cheaper but more importantly this is a kit that many hobbyists with money to burn would be first in line. I taught 28 workshops and I would say 18 of them where MF related and folks would give there eye teeth for a smaller kit. The only real smal kit is a tech cam. But with that 4 lenses at 8 K apiece is a serious dent in your wallet. I had two 8 k lenses in my kit and 2 at about 4K each. I had a fortune wrapped up in this and I was outgunned gear wise on every workshop I taught. People spend money for the best system they can get there hands on. You may not be that guy but trust me there are many out there with money to burn. This lowers that high end door to folks like us normal humans with a decent bank account we drive VW and volvos. Not Ferrari . Lol
Seriously I would not mind having it at all but I still need my Sony kit so it won't work for me . I have my RXr1 II and I'm happy enough with that but this thing might just very well be a big seller. I would certainly not be pissing all over it as its not after your Nikons, Sonys or Canon it's after Leica number 1 and Phase number 2. This could very well be the hobbyist dream landscape kit. Not sure I would argue it's not. It maybe perfect for it.
p.6 #11 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
phuang3 wrote:
I feel SL is in serious danger. People who can afford an SL would be more likely to pay 2k more for a MF mirrorless.
I don't see it the same way. SL is aimed at Leica shooters who currently use DSLRs like 1DX, 5DIII, D4/D5, etc. to fill in the gaps of their Leica system(s). 24-90 and 90-280 are pretty broad event/PJ type lenses for when AF is needed. Otherwise, the existing M, R and S lenses in your system are adaptable to the SL. So it's kind of a unifying do-it-all camera.
I'd really like to get an SL for the above reasons. But I also need a 400mm AF lens and very capable AF subject tracking, so it's still a 1DX for me (I doubt I'd be able to afford a Leica 400mm lens...).
Sure, for those outside the Leica ecosystem, the perspective will be different. But I still don't see them as cameras after the same niches. But the S system... If Hassy will allow adapted lenses, I could see some benefits to going for their mirrorless camera over an S body.
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rscheffler wrote:
Ryan, the assumption of course is Hassy will bring out those UWA lenses. Right now the camera is like the original a7 from Sony... a couple lenses to get you going and probably the assumption of lens adaptability for the rest or your current needs, assuming there's a suitable shutter option, etc. You can buy it to shoot alongside your Pentax and slowly transition to Hasselblad as the desired lenses materialize. Seems to be very much how things are working for Sony. Initially everyone wanted to and had to adapt lenses to them, now it seems most prefer the convenience of native lens mount support....Show more →
ryankarr wrote:
I'm sure that's the plan, but I'm always hesitant to just hope a lens I desperately need will be released by a company when buying into a system
Hopefully a lens roadmap will follow the announcement. I agree that adapting lenses is a cool option to have, but native lenses are where it's at for me
p.6 #12 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
GMPhotography wrote:
But with that 4 lenses at 8 K apiece is a serious dent in your wallet. I had two 8 k lenses in my kit and 2 at about 4K each. I had a fortune wrapped up in this and I was outgunned gear wise.
Sounds like pretty much any Leica system, too.
Sure, Hassy is gunning for some of Leica's share, but I don't think it's their #1 aim right now. Prestige-wise, yeah, I think they'd like to regain the glory of their golden era and push Phase and Leica to second and third position in the 'pro' MF category. Right now IMO Ricoh/Pentax have the most to lose because they are the undisputed and only (until now) budget MF option. The 645Z camera seems good and all, but it's huge. And it seems from what I've read, the lenses can be a bit hit and miss. So it leaves a door open for a 'prestige' brand like Hassy to enter, assuming the gear performs. A lot of the customers in this category are IMO difficult to please. They're very picky about image quality but also price sensitive. There's likely not a lot of brand loyalty either. Many have probably gone through system-flips of Canon, Nikon and Sony before moving to the low end of MF.
Let's see if Leica follows suit with a jumbo-SL. But as it is right now, the S system is after a different kind of customer.
p.6 #13 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
If I am in market for SL, I won't choose this, vise vesa.
It is not like I have to spend this much for a must have mirror less system.
I don't see these as S competitor as well. I personally have no interest at all. I guess Ron is right about Leica users' perspective about it.
Given also there are so many unknown about this system, I don't put high hope for niche camera brand can make mirror less right right away, Leica included. Even Sony can't.
Interesting product, but not interesting enough to put money in, at least for me.
phuang3 wrote:
I feel SL is in serious danger. People who can afford an SL would be more likely to pay 2k more for a MF mirrorless.
p.6 #14 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
phuang3 wrote:
I feel SL is in serious danger. People who can afford an SL would be more likely to pay 2k more for a MF mirrorless.
"People who can afford an SL" describes two groups:
1.) non-studio pros who need lens options, ruggedness, reliability, and AF performance that neither the SL nor this Hasselblad will offer
2.) Prestige buyers who would never be caught *dead* using a *gauche* Hasselblad, especially not a *budget* model, now that Hasselblad blew their cachet with the whole Stellar/Lunar debacle. Hasselblad's only hope to win these customers from Leica is a digital V series, IMHO.
Nobody flame me, that second one was meant to be tongue-in-cheek.
But seriously, although an SL isn't as practical/flexible as a D5 or 1Dx II, its two big zooms do make it more so than this new Hasselblad system and its two fairly-standard-range primes. I don't see a threat at least until/unless Hasselblad builds out the lens line-up.
p.6 #15 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Well it's 50mpx and people will and do chase rainbows especially landscape shooters . When I said I was out gunned I had a 60 Mpx back they had 80mpx. Leica SL is in this price range folks and the Hassy name is not second to Leica either. They both have a very long history in this industry and there brand names are what prestige is all about. Like I said earlier a lot of folks here won't relate to a product like this and I totally get that. But I was on that side of the fence for a long time, this will sell and it will sell well. So many people wanted a Mamiya 7 type digital cam and now it's here. My forum buy and sell is loaded with MF sale items, just watch that go up now. Obviously this has to be very very good on all counts that goes without saying but this will put pressure on Leica no question in my mind. You gave me 20 k to spend I would buy 50 Mpx Hassy any day of the week over a 24mpx Leica for around the same money.
p.6 #16 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Having had a film Hasselblad for a number of years, it is a unique product and I loved the camera. The only issue then was the development of MF film. This was more a specialist lab process and in Asia was difficult to find.
I really like what I see so far, and it will come down to the size, weight and specs. If you can use older lenses this will be a huge bonus.
p.6 #17 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Back in 2002, it was exciting to review the first full frame digital camera ever produced. Despite of its hefty $8K price tag and modest 11MP sensor (majestic for the time), the Canon EOS-1Ds was a game changer for me. It still didn't match 35mm film but it was a big advance for digital photography. https://www.fredmiranda.com/1Ds_review
I went through many cameras until something exciting happened again. For me it was Sony's A7R and later A7RII bodies. The smaller size and amazing sensor did it for me. Currently that's my main camera and I'm still amazed and spoiled by the files it produces. My current kit is mostly made of native E-mount primes and zooms and I have nothing to complain about.
With all that, I have to confess that the new Hassy X1D caught my attention in a similar way today and I can't wait to see the details about it tomorrow.
p.6 #18 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Fred Miranda wrote:
Back in 2002, it was exciting to review the first full frame digital camera ever produced. Despite of its hefty $8K price tag and modest 11MP sensor (majestic for the time), the Canon EOS-1Ds was a game changer for me. It still didn't match 35mm film but it was a big advance for digital photography. https://www.fredmiranda.com/1Ds_review
I went through many cameras until something exciting happened again. For me it was Sony's A7R and later A7RII bodies. The smaller size and amazing sensor did it for me. Currently that's my main camera and I'm still amazed and spoiled by the files it produces. My current kit is mostly made of native E-mount primes and zooms and I have nothing to complain about.
With all that, I have to confess that the new Hassy X1D caught my attention in a similar way today and I can't wait to see the details about it tomorrow.
Funny the 1ds was the best camera ever but we did not realize it till much later the following models where not even close. Something special about the 1Ds it was also the year I bought Capture One for it at 500 dollars. Still use C1.
Let me add I came from a ton of money invested in MF and I truly loved it but the money was stupid and I was forced to sell it all due to my wife's health but no regrets I'm so happy with my Sony system today but this announcement was wha I wanted back than instead of all the tech cams and DSLR bodies . This was what a lot of use really wanted, to me this is exciting. Look forward too really see if they did it right.
