p.7 #1 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
I respectfully beg to differ with learned members Ron and Lee. I see this camera as competing with Leica offerings (M, SL) in the luxo market segment. If Leica's strategy tells us anything, it is that there are clients who will buy credentials over performance and specification. To those buyers, probably many of them not trading up but buying in, a mirrolress Hassy makes total sens. Wonderful credentials (these people don't know about Lunar/Stellar), compact format, clean design, and a simple USP "bigger sensor is better". I am not saying it will work every time, but it draws buyers away from Leica in a segment where they were alone (I don't consider the Pentax 645, good though it is, as attracting the same buyers as Leica). So, yes, i think it is not good news at all for Leica.
Also, let's not forget that Ming Thein says very positive things about it, which, coming from him, I take at face value. I could be in the market for one, and I know one other person who could be. Yeah, I know, we need to know more, but that wil be soon enough.
p.7 #3 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
GMPhotography wrote:
You gave me 20 k to spend I would buy 50 Mpx Hassy any day of the week over a 24mpx Leica for around the same money.
Right, and your criteria is very much centered around the sensor specs. Others have different priorities. At least for me, none of my digital camera purchases since 2001 have been about obtaining the most pixels possible. Given that $20K and I'd probably end up with a couple 1DXIIs and a super-tele. Or a bunch of M lenses. We all have specific needs and wants. Horses for courses.
Where the Hassy excites me is the potential of it being a platform for a variety of lenses, possibly also 35mm system lenses. We'll see what it will allow. Bottom line, and I think you often say this, is it provides yet another choice for photographers. It's good to have choices.
p.7 #7 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
phuang3 wrote:
Thanks. I was hoping better samples from Hassy. These images didn't show the advantages of X1D-50C.
I do think if you go direct to the link, the shots seem to be richer in tonality, color and there are nuances that are what you would expect from a MF.
p.7 #8 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Fred Miranda wrote:
Another note about color depth;
Leica offers 16-bit output for the Leica S but the Pentax 645Z using Sony's 50MP MF sensor 14-bit. Not sure if it means much at all.
With 16-bit files you probably have more different values than there are photons converted by each pixel so you're not getting any more data, just noise.
If your goal is to avoid posterisation/banding you can just add a couple of bits of noise to your 14-bit files.
Also a 16-bit ADC is going to be much slower than a 14-bit one. This doesn't matter if your MF back is a slow lumbering beast anyway, but I'd like to think the move to mirrorless is also a move towards greater usability and snappier performance. I'm certainly not surprised the Sony MF sensor has 14-bit ADCs, especially given the on chip ADCs are a large part of how they achieve fantastic DR figures.
p.7 #10 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
rscheffler wrote:
I wonder how many FF 35mm lenses can be adapted to this and cover the full sensor with reasonably decent results? I guess maybe some of the TS-E type lenses, but I've also heard the Canon 16-35/4L, once the rear plastic baffle is removed, has a fairly large image circle at some points in its zoom range. I was thinking of using it along with the H-Cam tilt/shift adapter thingy in place of updating some of the TS-Es...
I seem to recall a number of years ago someone adapted the FD 85/1.2L to Mamiya 645...? And I've heard of some Leica R lenses being adapted to their S system...
With a mirrorless medium format, you'd just need a 'simple' adapter to maintain infinity focus (since the camera and flange depth doesn't look super deep).
I wonder what the usable image circle size is of the Otus lenses? IIRC, from the H-Cam discussion on another forum, they might not cover a lot more than 35mm FF.
Trying to think a bit outside the box....
Otherwise, yeah.... it would probably be more exciting if the sensor was closer to 645 size, rather than jumbo-35mm....Show more →
I was told by someone who does it, that he tested all his 4 R (typo) lenses and they cover 645 sensors. One of them being the 90AA (samples I've seen). He's very confusing in his reports as he says the lenses focus to infinity, but he's using them on a camera that has a much longer flange distance then the R. So how he's getting them to work is beyond me. And his english isn't good enough for me to press the issue.
Anyway, point being that this camera w/adapters might just have more surprises then we think.
p.7 #11 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Jman13 wrote:
I guess I don't really get it that much. The advantage of this over something like the A7R II is...what, exactly? Sure, you'll get a bit cleaner base ISO images...a bit wider dynamic range probably...and....that's it? The A7R II already gets you nearly the same resolution, the dynamic range is fantastic and low ISO noise is already very low. With the lenses as slow as they are, you don't gain anything at higher ISOs at all, and you don't gain any shallower depth of field. Heck, the Fuji X system with a 23mm f/1.4 and 56mm f/1.2 will show significantly shallower DOF than these lenses here.
So, $9K for slightly better ISO 100 image quality? What am I missing here? If this were a full 645 sized sensor, or even more exciting, a 6x7, I could understand the excitement, but is there even any guarantee that the slightly larger size will outperform Sony's awesome full frame sensor?
I kind of agree with you. I think after I did tests with the X-T1 + 56/1.2 vs the S-006 + 100/2 I came to the conclusion that for what I look for in a system, they are very similar IQ wise.
The problem comes when you start using the Fuji in a wider variety of situations against the S, you really do see how much better then S-system is.
Now, I'm not a fan of Sony. Don't think I ever will be (even though I'm done with Leica). But the same will probably be true for the X1D. In most side by side situations you'll be left scratching your head as to why you would want/need the X1D over the Sony. BUT after using it in all situations, I think the look of the X1D will become apparent. And you'll either love it enough to put up with the quirks (because there will be quirks) and price. Or you won't. And you'll happily shoot the Sony A7rII.
p.7 #13 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
I suspect the sensor advances we are seeing will over time appeal to more and more people at the smaller end (APS-C, m43) on grounds of size and cost and to less and less people at the larger end (FF and "MF") on the same grounds unless narrow dof is the principal requirement. In this context the Sony A9, if it ever surfaces, should be interesting. Game changer? I doubt it.
Whatever the eventual outcome these developments must be worrying for Leica, at least as far as their cameras are concerned.
p.7 #14 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
SKumar25 wrote:
Hi Adam, what happened?
Even though I'm personally not done with Leica yet, I fully understand Adam's frustration. Every time there is a hiccup you need to ship stuff to Germany. I have the same problem with Zeiss as well. Canon service center is 10 minutes away from my office. Turn around is 3 days for prosumer stuff and less than 24 hours for pro equipment. Every time I sent a lens to Zeiss for calibration, I had to pay duty as if I was importing a new lens. There is an advantage in sticking with mainstream products even when they're not as fancy as the niche products.
p.7 #15 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
SKumar25 wrote:
Hi Adam, what happened?
Long story. Has to do with pricing of items. I was told by the manager of Leica Asia that they were fixing the pricing discrepancies in Asia with Leica products. I was promised by LEICA that the SL+Zoom pricing I was getting was universal and they assured me I couldn't get it cheaper elsewhere (obviously plus minus a few hundred dollars in exchange rates). My external dealer msgs me a month after I buy the SL+Zoom and tells me I can have it for $5,000 USD cheaper then what I paid for it (then what you all in the USA payed for it as well). So basically, me and anyone else who purchased an SL + zoom is getting cheated heavily.
This also doesn't sit well with me, because if I told you the SL+Zoom was $8,600 USD wouldn't you think it was a competitive product (pricing wise) with Sony? Of course you would, and the product would sell better, and they would have more incentive to make more Leica SL products. But right now, you all think the SL is expensive and won't buy one. Something I mentioned to the CEO/Chairman a few days before the launch of the SL. I was laughed at, because "Leica users would be willing to pay more for it, why sell it for less?"
Think about it. This basically means the SL body is $4,600 USD and the zoom is $4,000 USD. That's a perfectly reasonable price for the product.
Or I guess $5,600 and $3,000 making it more on par with Canon pricing right?
Anyway, after finding out about the price discrepancy, I disputed the price I paid. Also offered to buy more products at a discounted price to offset my loss (the 90-280 that I didn't even want, the S-adapter SL and even a second SL body). But their offered of discounts were a slap in the face (15% off the inflated pricing they were advertising). Basically the discounted price wasn't even the cheapest I could get from my outside dealer by any stretch of the imagination. So I went to the CEO hoping that he could rectify the situation. And he basically told me that they had no control over what their dealers wanted to charge. And if the dealers didn't want to profit that there was nothing he could do. Keep in mind that I'm getting it from my dealer who has to make a profit. He has a family, he has a mortgage.. He's obviously making a profit. And the distributor has licensing rights.. The distributor who distributes to my dealer is also making a profit. AND Leica is obviously making a profit. So it just goes to show you how cheap camera equipment really is in the grand scheme of things (something I've been saying all along). (I have a similar issue with Zeiss Otus repair costs).
Basically he told me he runs the company like shit, but since him and the chairman are buddies, nobody cares challenge him. Hence he can do what he wants. He also basically said that Leica users would blindly follow the brand no matter what they did pricing wise. And if I made this information public knowledge it would backfire in my face because Leica consumers are idiots and would defend him and the brand (Disclaimer: I'm reading between the lines, but I do have a good sense for these things.)
The only reason I haven't made a proper forum topic on here, with snippets of information from my multiple e-mails with them is because I'm on a work vacation and I don't want to have to deal with any of this nonsense. I've already sold off most my my Leica gear (I've been fighting with Leica for a few months now).
I have a few more things to sell, but I have a feeling that I'm going to loose a lot of money on resell once people catch wind that almost all Leica products can be purchased for up to 40% cheaper then they are listed for in the USA etc. And honestly, I'm not afraid of people catching wind and me loosing money. I would much rather you all direct your anger towards the CEO then for me to make a few bucks keeping this quiet.
Anyway, I'm on vacation so I don't really want to deal with this right now..
(This above is the icing on the cake compared to the problems I'm having with my gear)
p.7 #16 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
adamdewilde wrote:
Long story. Has to do with pricing of items. I was told by the manager of Leica Asia that they were fixing the pricing discrepancies in Asia with Leica products. I was promised by LEICA that the SL+Zoom pricing I was getting was universal and they assured me I couldn't get it cheaper elsewhere (obviously plus minus a few hundred dollars in exchange rates). My external dealer msgs me a month after I buy the SL+Zoom and tells me I can have it for $5,000 USD cheaper then what I paid for it (then what you all in the USA payed for it as well). So basically, me and anyone else who purchased an SL + zoom is getting cheated heavily.
This also doesn't sit well with me, because if I told you the SL+Zoom was $8,600 USD wouldn't you think it was a competitive product (pricing wise) with Sony? Of course you would, and the product would sell better, and they would have more incentive to make more Leica SL products. But right now, you all think the SL is expensive and won't buy one. Something I mentioned to the CEO/Chairman a few days before the launch of the SL. I was laughed at, because "Leica users would be willing to pay more for it, why sell it for less?"
Think about it. This basically means the SL body is $4,600 USD and the zoom is $4,000 USD. That's a perfectly reasonable price for the product.
Or I guess $5,600 and $3,000 making it more on par with Canon pricing right?
Anyway, after finding out about the price discrepancy, I disputed the price I paid. Also offered to buy more products at a discounted price to offset my loss (the 90-280 that I didn't even want, the S-adapter SL and even a second SL body). But their offered of discounts were a slap in the face (15% off the inflated pricing they were advertising). Basically the discounted price wasn't even the cheapest I could get from my outside dealer by any stretch of the imagination. So I went to the CEO hoping that he could rectify the situation. And he basically told me that they had no control over what their dealers wanted to charge. And if the dealers didn't want to profit that there was nothing he could do. Keep in mind that I'm getting it from my dealer who has to make a profit. He has a family, he has a mortgage.. He's obviously making a profit. And the distributor has licensing rights.. The distributor who distributes to my dealer is also making a profit. AND Leica is obviously making a profit. So it just goes to show you how cheap camera equipment really is in the grand scheme of things (something I've been saying all along). (I have a similar issue with Zeiss Otus repair costs).
Basically he told me he runs the company like shit, but since him and the chairman are buddies, nobody cares challenge him. Hence he can do what he wants. He also basically said that Leica users would blindly follow the brand no matter what they did pricing wise. And if I made this information public knowledge it would backfire in my face because Leica consumers are idiots and would defend him and the brand (Disclaimer: I'm reading between the lines, but I do have a good sense for these things.)
The only reason I haven't made a proper forum topic on here, with snippets of information from my multiple e-mails with them is because I'm on a work vacation and I don't want to have to deal with any of this nonsense. I've already sold off most my my Leica gear (I've been fighting with Leica for a few months now).
I have a few more things to sell, but I have a feeling that I'm going to loose a lot of money on resell once people catch wind that almost all Leica products can be purchased for up to 40% cheaper then they are listed for in the USA etc. And honestly, I'm not afraid of people catching wind and me loosing money. I would much rather you all direct your anger towards the CEO then for me to make a few bucks keeping this quiet.
Anyway, I'm on vacation so I don't really want to deal with this right now..
(This above is the icing on the cake compared to the problems I'm having with my gear)...Show more →
p.7 #17 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
Wow, Adam, that's really a shock to me. I mean I know a guy in Hong Kong who sells grey market Leica stuff out of his apartment at huge discounts, but I never bought from him because of lack of trust. I wouldn't mind if you give me the details of your supplier though
p.7 #19 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
edwardkaraa wrote:
Even though I'm personally not done with Leica yet, I fully understand Adam's frustration. Every time there is a hiccup you need to ship stuff to Germany. I have the same problem with Zeiss as well. Canon service center is 10 minutes away from my office. Turn around is 3 days for prosumer stuff and less than 24 hours for pro equipment. Every time I sent a lens to Zeiss for calibration, I had to pay duty as if I was importing a new lens. There is an advantage in sticking with mainstream products even when they're not as fancy as the niche products....Show more →
I don't even want to start on this.. I wouldn't even know where to start. So many things wrong. And yes, I have/had a lot of Leica gear, so I'm bound to have a lot of stories just by sheer volume of gear I have owned.. But man, no other company has given me so much trouble/drama. And I just don't think it's worth it anymore. Not worth talking about on the forums.. And not worth the IQ advantages of the brand.
Sucks because Leica really does have a few GEM lenses that I'm going to miss once it's all gone.
p.7 #20 · Official: Hasselblad X1D-50c Medium Format Mirrorless
edwardkaraa wrote:
Wow, Adam, that's really a shock to me. I mean I know a guy in Hong Kong who sells grey market Leica stuff out of his apartment at huge discounts, but I never bought from him because of lack of trust. I wouldn't mind if you give me the details of your supplier though
