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Archive 2016Odd corners/Edge sharpening up with A7RII + Leica 50mm Summilux-ASPH
p.2 #1Odd corners/Edge sharpening up with A7RII + Leica 50mm Summilux-ASPH
dumplinknet wrote:
I am using the CV close focus adapter. I'm not sure if its the adapter at fault since its the only one I have.
However, if you look at the gentleman with the chair, you'll notice that the upper right corner of the white wall starts sharpening up. The wringle details on that part of the wall is are more apparent than the part just to the right of his left hand. This example isn't as severe but its still apparent. In fact, the whole right side of that wall starts to gain focus as it looses bokeh. The same...Show more →
Yes, I see it too in that one, but as you say, not as strongly as in your shots.
The slightly swirly bokeh is visible in there as well behind the subject, in particular the pebbles on the ground.
---Michael
I am using the CV close focus adapter. I'm not sure if its the adapter at fault since its the only one I have.
However, if you look at the gentleman with the chair, you'll notice that the upper right corner of the white wall starts sharpening up. The wringle details on that part of the wall is are more apparent than the part just to the right of his left hand. This example isn't as severe but its still apparent. In fact, the whole right side of that wall starts to gain focus as it looses bokeh. The same...Show more →
Yes, I see it too in that one, but as you say, not as strongly as in your shots.
The slightly swirly bokeh is visible in there as well behind the subject, in particular the pebbles on the ground.
---Michael
May 18, 2016 at 05:23 PM
p.2 #2Odd corners/Edge sharpening up with A7RII + Leica 50mm Summilux-ASPH
dumplinknet wrote:
I am using the CV close focus adapter. I'm not sure if its the adapter at fault since its the only one I have.
Try focusing on something at infinity. When the lens is at the infinity hard stop, where is the focus? At infinity, or do you reach correct infinity focus before the hard stop? I'm not sure about the CV adapter, but some adapters are adjustable for correct infinity focus. Some, if not many adapters are made slightly thin to err on the side of caution so that even if a lens is slightly off spec, it should still hit infinity at some point on the focusing ring. For lenses that shift the entire optical unit for focus, this is OK.
If the adapter allows focus past infinity but doesn't have an infinity adjustment, then you'll have to add shims under the adapter's lens mount.
I recall seeing something similar in images posted by another member with the Canon TS-E 24/3.5 II adapted to Sony mirrorless with very strong curvature towards infinity at the edges. Yet in normal and shifted use on Canon DSLRs, that lens typically exhibits very good flatness of field. IIRC, once he adjusted the adapter for correct infinity focus, results improved considerably.
I am using the CV close focus adapter. I'm not sure if its the adapter at fault since its the only one I have.
Try focusing on something at infinity. When the lens is at the infinity hard stop, where is the focus? At infinity, or do you reach correct infinity focus before the hard stop? I'm not sure about the CV adapter, but some adapters are adjustable for correct infinity focus. Some, if not many adapters are made slightly thin to err on the side of caution so that even if a lens is slightly off spec, it should still hit infinity at some point on the focusing ring. For lenses that shift the entire optical unit for focus, this is OK.
If the adapter allows focus past infinity but doesn't have an infinity adjustment, then you'll have to add shims under the adapter's lens mount.
I recall seeing something similar in images posted by another member with the Canon TS-E 24/3.5 II adapted to Sony mirrorless with very strong curvature towards infinity at the edges. Yet in normal and shifted use on Canon DSLRs, that lens typically exhibits very good flatness of field. IIRC, once he adjusted the adapter for correct infinity focus, results improved considerably.
May 18, 2016 at 06:39 PM
p.2 #3Odd corners/Edge sharpening up with A7RII + Leica 50mm Summilux-ASPH
mjm6 wrote:
However, if you look at the gentleman with the chair, you'll notice that the upper right corner of the white wall starts sharpening up. The wringle details on that part of the wall is are more apparent than the part just to the right of his left hand. This example isn't as severe but its still apparent. In fact, the whole right side of that wall starts to gain focus as it looses bokeh. The same can be said about the left side of this image. The window slats become more in focus- although not entirely.Yes, I see it too in that one, but as you say, not as strongly as in your shots.
The slightly swirly bokeh is visible in there as well behind the subject, in particular the pebbles on the ground.
---Michael
dumplinknet & Michael, I do agree with your observation regarding the last image (on unmodified A7RM2)
However, I need to point out that the camera was not entirely perpendicular to the back wall, with upper right hand corner being slightly closer, hence the difference in sharpness.
Again, this is just one example which shows you can't expect perfect performance of some RF lenses on stock A7 series cameras. I still feel, based on your examples that your lens+camera suffers more due to some unidentified variables.
Perhaps you could try different adapters and share your findings.
dumplinknet wrote
I am using the CV close focus adapter. I'm not sure if its the adapter at fault since its the only one I have.However, if you look at the gentleman with the chair, you'll notice that the upper right corner of the white wall starts sharpening up. The wringle details on that part of the wall is are more apparent than the part just to the right of his left hand. This example isn't as severe but its still apparent. In fact, the whole right side of that wall starts to gain focus as it looses bokeh. The same can be said about the left side of this image. The window slats become more in focus- although not entirely.
The slightly swirly bokeh is visible in there as well behind the subject, in particular the pebbles on the ground.
---Michael
dumplinknet & Michael, I do agree with your observation regarding the last image (on unmodified A7RM2)
However, I need to point out that the camera was not entirely perpendicular to the back wall, with upper right hand corner being slightly closer, hence the difference in sharpness.
Again, this is just one example which shows you can't expect perfect performance of some RF lenses on stock A7 series cameras. I still feel, based on your examples that your lens+camera suffers more due to some unidentified variables.
Perhaps you could try different adapters and share your findings.
May 18, 2016 at 07:37 PM
p.2 #4Odd corners/Edge sharpening up with A7RII + Leica 50mm Summilux-ASPH
Just chiming in to say that when I tried my 50 Lux pre-ASPH on an A7II and A7RII, it was horrible. I'd always loved the lens, and shot with it a ton on my M3 and M240, so it was pretty clear from the get-go that something was off using the Sony's.
More reading led to the discussion and facts about Sony's super thick glass filter in front of the sensor and it's effects on a lot of rangefinder glass. Pity, but Kolari seems to have a great solution, at a price that makes it still cheaper than an M.
More reading led to the discussion and facts about Sony's super thick glass filter in front of the sensor and it's effects on a lot of rangefinder glass. Pity, but Kolari seems to have a great solution, at a price that makes it still cheaper than an M.
May 18, 2016 at 08:39 PM
p.2 #5Odd corners/Edge sharpening up with A7RII + Leica 50mm Summilux-ASPH
Ryan, Yes I had a 50 lux pre-ASPH. I didn't think it was horrible, but not great.
What is sad in my opinion is how poorly Leica bodies are... I loved the lenses on film and on the M9, but that damn camera was a horrible execution in my opinion. Killed me from using Leica again.
What is sad in my opinion is how poorly Leica bodies are... I loved the lenses on film and on the M9, but that damn camera was a horrible execution in my opinion. Killed me from using Leica again.
May 18, 2016 at 10:51 PM
p.2 #6Odd corners/Edge sharpening up with A7RII + Leica 50mm Summilux-ASPH
RyanFlynn wrote:
Just chiming in to say that when I tried my 50 Lux pre-ASPH on an A7II and A7RII, it was horrible. I'd always loved the lens, and shot with it a ton on my M3 and M240, so it was pretty clear from the get-go that something was off using the Sony's.
More reading led to the discussion and facts about Sony's super thick glass filter in front of the sensor and it's effects on a lot of rangefinder glass. Pity, but Kolari seems to have a great solution, at a price that makes it still cheaper than an M.
Thats strange, I have been using a Summilux 50 of the last pre asph type on my A7 with very good results, I have pin sharp A3 prints of landscapes at 6.3 on the wall. I would say it performs pretty well the same as it does on the M6ttl. The Summicron 50 (first rigid type) I have is better at 2 and 2.8 but they are indistinguishable after that.
The other 50s I have tried, Nikkor 1.8 AiS and a 55/2 Super Takumar are both softer than the Leicas until at least f/4.
Gerry
May 19, 2016 at 02:37 AM
p.2 #7Odd corners/Edge sharpening up with A7RII + Leica 50mm Summilux-ASPH
Often Leica M 35 and 50mm lenses with asph elements perform worse on A7X cameras than the older non asph versions, which usually performs fine.
One problem in relation to the A7X sensors is the asph elements. Another other is that lenses with floating elemnts are very sensitive to the correct length of the adapter. If it's too short (the lens can focus past infinity), the floating elements may not be in the optimal position when the lens is focused. The older Leica M lenses has neither asph lens elements nor floating elements and thus work better. Both my Summicron M 35 type4 and Summicron M 50 type4 (both Mandler designs) work without problems on my A7S. The same goes for a Summilux M 35/1.4 pre asph and the first generation Summilux M 50/1.4 out of the old Xenon mould (except for the well known glow which is not caused by the interplay with the sensor stack but is a characteristic of the lens). People seem to experience the same good behavior from them on the higher resolution sensors.
One problem in relation to the A7X sensors is the asph elements. Another other is that lenses with floating elemnts are very sensitive to the correct length of the adapter. If it's too short (the lens can focus past infinity), the floating elements may not be in the optimal position when the lens is focused. The older Leica M lenses has neither asph lens elements nor floating elements and thus work better. Both my Summicron M 35 type4 and Summicron M 50 type4 (both Mandler designs) work without problems on my A7S. The same goes for a Summilux M 35/1.4 pre asph and the first generation Summilux M 50/1.4 out of the old Xenon mould (except for the well known glow which is not caused by the interplay with the sensor stack but is a characteristic of the lens). People seem to experience the same good behavior from them on the higher resolution sensors.
May 19, 2016 at 05:24 AM
p.2 #8Odd corners/Edge sharpening up with A7RII + Leica 50mm Summilux-ASPH
Sony has made so many Alpha flavors, your'd think someone over yonder might conceive of a niche a7M with a thin sensor cover glass? Maybe a sensor for a body by Cosina/Zeiss instead? With all that old Leica and Zeiss M glass out there, it would sell like hot cakes. Snowball's chance in hell, though.
May 19, 2016 at 06:05 AM
p.2 #9Odd corners/Edge sharpening up with A7RII + Leica 50mm Summilux-ASPH
oldane wrote:
Often Leica M 35 and 50mm lenses with asph elements perform worse on A7X cameras than the older non asph versions, which usually performs fine.
One problem in relation to the A7X sensors is the asph elements. Another other is that lenses with floating elemnts are very sensitive to the correct length of the adapter. If it's too short (the lens can focus past infinity), the floating elements may not be in the optimal position when the lens is focused. The older Leica M lenses has neither asph lens elements nor floating elements and thus work better. Both my Summicron...Show more →
ASPH lenses are not a problem in and of themselves. The 90 f/2 ASPH APO, the 75 f/2 ASPH APO, and the 50 f/2 ASPH APO all perform quite well on the Sony cameras. It is lenses with a short exit pupil that are problematic and lenses at wider apertures that are problematic. Older lenses were all designed for film (i.e., no cover glass) and thus when they have a short exit pupil have notable problems. The 50 pre-AA cron (or version IV) works well because it has a fairly long exit pupil and and only moderately fast aperture.
Often Leica M 35 and 50mm lenses with asph elements perform worse on A7X cameras than the older non asph versions, which usually performs fine.
One problem in relation to the A7X sensors is the asph elements. Another other is that lenses with floating elemnts are very sensitive to the correct length of the adapter. If it's too short (the lens can focus past infinity), the floating elements may not be in the optimal position when the lens is focused. The older Leica M lenses has neither asph lens elements nor floating elements and thus work better. Both my Summicron...Show more →
ASPH lenses are not a problem in and of themselves. The 90 f/2 ASPH APO, the 75 f/2 ASPH APO, and the 50 f/2 ASPH APO all perform quite well on the Sony cameras. It is lenses with a short exit pupil that are problematic and lenses at wider apertures that are problematic. Older lenses were all designed for film (i.e., no cover glass) and thus when they have a short exit pupil have notable problems. The 50 pre-AA cron (or version IV) works well because it has a fairly long exit pupil and and only moderately fast aperture.
May 19, 2016 at 06:21 AM
p.2 #10Odd corners/Edge sharpening up with A7RII + Leica 50mm Summilux-ASPH
The 'lux 50 v2 (aka pre-ASPH) performed very well on my unmod'ed A7ii from wide open, and I saw no field curvature of note. In contrast, the Elmarit 28 ASPH curves like a sonofabitch, even at f/8/.
May 20, 2016 at 06:22 AM
p.2 #11Odd corners/Edge sharpening up with A7RII + Leica 50mm Summilux-ASPH
rico wrote:
The 'lux 50 v2 (aka pre-ASPH) performed very well on my unmod'ed A7ii from wide open, and I saw no field curvature of note. In contrast, the Elmarit 28 ASPH curves like a sonofabitch, even at f/8/.
Not at all surprising as the 'lux 50 v2 has a much longer exit pupil than the Elmarit 28 ASPH, which has a very short exit pupil. Fred did a test of the new Elmarit 28 ASPH (reformulated for Leica digital; i.e., for ~ 1mm sensor glass thickness) and it actually does pretty well on the A7rII if you stop down to f/8.
The 'lux 50 v2 (aka pre-ASPH) performed very well on my unmod'ed A7ii from wide open, and I saw no field curvature of note. In contrast, the Elmarit 28 ASPH curves like a sonofabitch, even at f/8/.
Not at all surprising as the 'lux 50 v2 has a much longer exit pupil than the Elmarit 28 ASPH, which has a very short exit pupil. Fred did a test of the new Elmarit 28 ASPH (reformulated for Leica digital; i.e., for ~ 1mm sensor glass thickness) and it actually does pretty well on the A7rII if you stop down to f/8.
May 20, 2016 at 06:59 AM