GMPhotography wrote:
I trust Fred's testing quite a lot so here is my thoughts the Batis is more the reportage lens and the Loxia is more for hard core landscape folks as it brings better precision in focusing. Not saying you can't use either one of them in many different situations but the overall feel to me is this and maybe exactly what Zeiss is making the Batis line for. There damn good no question about it they just maybe belong to different types of shooters. Now maybe I'm bias a little too as I'm a old school manual focus shooter.
The more I think about the current kit offerings, I recon the Loxia's play-off very well against the GM's. With the GM's you're getting the very best quality (LARGE) A/F glass that takes full advantage of all the Sony A/F tech such as EyeAF. By adding into your GM kit a set of Loxia's and you've got some really capable video/centric M/F glass that's also great for low-key reportage stills work.
For me it's mostly why I bought the 24-70 was reportage. I shot a CEO this morning , I used the zoom and the 85 . The thing is I did not expect the zoom to be a landscape beast as well. I would love to own them both to be honest.
chrisgibbs wrote:
The more I think about the current kit offerings, I recon the Loxia's play-off very well against the GM's. With the GM's you're getting the very best quality (LARGE) A/F glass that takes full advantage of all the Sony A/F tech such as EyeAF. By adding into your GM kit a set of Loxia's and you've got some really capable video/centric M/F glass that's also great for low-key reportage stills work.
GMPhotography wrote:
I trust Fred's testing quite a lot so here is my thoughts the Batis is more the reportage lens and the Loxia is more for hard core landscape folks as it brings better precision in focusing. Not saying you can't use either one of them in many different situations but the overall feel to me is this and maybe exactly what Zeiss is making the Batis line for. There damn good no question about it they just maybe belong to different types of shooters. Now maybe I'm bias a little too as I'm a old school manual focus shooter.
I think that is a very good comparison - and while it's all very personal and some may have other preferences - i appreciate how someone on a tripod building a great photograph from a landscape scene at infinity will benefit from the Loxia's MF.
On the other hand, that will likely not be me in the next decade, or ever - certainly not on a regular basis. For me, capturing 'moments' in small spaces, up close, etc is primarily what i enjoy and the situations i find myself in - and AF is ideal. And the Batis 18 delivers in spades for my purposes and I can't be more excited that after 3 yrs, i now have 5 lenses that i enjoy and respect and now it's a matter of getting to know them each and their individual nuances and learning how to get the most out of them.
And that is exactly what my point was. Not everyone sits on a mountain top waiting for the light. Lol
Kind of why I would like both. Lol but I'm a lens whore
ecarlino wrote:
I think that is a very good comparison - and while it's all very personal and some may have other preferences - i appreciate how someone on a tripod building a great photograph from a landscape scene at infinity will benefit from the Loxia's MF.
On the other hand, that will likely not be me in the next decade, or ever - certainly not on a regular basis. For me, capturing 'moments' in small spaces, up close, etc is primarily what i enjoy and the situations i find myself in - and AF is ideal. And the Batis 18 delivers in spades for my purposes and I can't be more excited that after 3 yrs, i now have 5 lenses that i enjoy and respect and now it's a matter of getting to know them each and their individual nuances and learning how to get the most out of them.
There's definitely a bit of magic in the L21, I was hoping this lens would be similar, but it doesn't appear to be. I'm not even sure how much better it would be than a good copy of the 16-35, which I think I finally have a good copy of.
Fred Miranda wrote:
These tests were done carefully (and repeated) because I know many shooters are choosing between them. However, I don't like to make generalizations because I only tested one copy of the Batis 18/2.8. It seems to be a good copy and it's not decentered but we never know if there are other copies performing better or worse. Only Roger tests will show.
I went through a couple of Loxia 21's before it was replaced by Zeiss themselves. I know my Loxia 21 is a good copy because I was able to compare a few of them.
Personally I think the Batis 18/2.8 is excellent and a great choice for Sony shooters. Is the Loxia even better? I would say yes but that's a totally different focal length. ...Show more →
I like both lenses very much. If I have to choose only one, based on overall look, I also prefer L21 and I find 21mm a bit easier to use. However, I think if I have to let B18 go, I would miss it very much also. But if AF vs MF is not an issue, I certainly would recommend L21 first. Then again, B18 actually make an interesting street shooting experience as well. Glad I don't have to choose one over another
suteetat wrote:
I like both lenses very much. If I have to choose only one, based on overall look, I also prefer L21 and I find 21mm a bit easier to use. However, I think if I have to let B18 go, I would miss it very much also. But if AF vs MF is not an issue, I certainly would recommend L21 first. Then again, B18 actually make an interesting street shooting experience as well. Glad I don't have to choose one over another
Aside from IQ comparisons, these lenses look so different.
The Loxia build seems to have more metal, it's much narrower and a bit shorter. It's noticeably heavier, has a smaller thread size and a metal hood. Its mechanical MF and de-clickable aperture ring are great features for many shooters.
The Batis on the other hand, has AF and a modern look. No distance markings since it's focus by wire. The focusing ring is rubber, there is a digital display on it and the hood is made of plastic. Decisions that contribute to its futuristic look and weight. Clearly they were designed for different needs.
To me, the Loxia line was designed for precise manual focusing, aperture control and video. The Batis is a modern design with AF which appeals to more photographers.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Aside from IQ comparisons, these lenses look so different.
The Loxia build seems to have more metal, it's much narrower and a bit shorter. It's noticeably heavier, has a smaller thread size and a metal hood. Its mechanical MF and de-clickable aperture ring are great features for many shooters.
The Batis on the other hand, has AF and a modern look. No distance markings since it's focus by wire. The focusing ring is rubber, there is a digital display on it and the hood is made of plastic. Decisions that contribute to its futuristic look and weight. Clearly they were designed for different needs.
To me, the Loxia line was designed for precise manual focusing, aperture control and video. The Batis is a modern design with AF which appeals to more photographers....Show more →
Opps, for overall look, I really mean overall picture, rendering etc rather than physical appearance. I guess, generally, I am more of a function over form kind of person. Physical appearance wise, I prefer Loxia for its more compact size even though it is heavier. B18 look is not so understated like L21 which I also like. AF is always nice to have but not so important for me at these focal lenghts and tactile wise, there was no contest between L21 and B18. Although LED display (or whatever it is) is rather nifty on B18 but since my eye is usually glued to EVF, I have not had much use for it generally. I think Zeiss did a good job between balancing appearance and weight for Batis. I must be one of the few people who do not mind Nikon's plastic body for its recent lenses as I prefer weight saving over metal part but Batis seems to have found a nice balance, something that look and feel like what it should cost while being light as well.If Batis' focus ring feels a bit more substantial, may be a bit more resistance, I would love it even more.
Given what we're seeing with the VC 15, I do think Fred's note about testing one copy is prudent to keep in mind. This gives us a baseline-- could be a great copy, a mediocre copy, or an average copy.
Regarding the look: I'd definitely prefer that Zeiss slimmed this lens down. There's obviously some artificial fattening going on to accommodate filters and keep the styling consistent from Batis to Batis. Light + fat = lots of air.
Big thanks for the awesome work, Fred. Your findings regarding the field curvature confirm my decision to keep the Loxia 2.8/21. Apart from that, I am curious how the sun stars of the same subject from both lenses in comparison will look like. I think nothing comes close to the 10 straight Loxia-aperture blades.
I can understand what you mean with the different looks. For me as a friend of manual and classic lenses, the Loxia is much more appealing. The proportions of the Batis look just a little too strange for my taste.
Thanks for the excellent review Fred. Both look like excellent lenses, but the Loxia shines in this application. For other applications I suspect the results may flip. On such application is astro work. Given the extremely low coma on the 18 and the slightly wider perspective my guess is that we would see a similar close performance but with the Batis having an advantage for that type of work. I think both lenses will be good all arounders for the focal length, but have slightly different strengths and weaknesses. The bottom line for me is that if I was building an AF kit, I would not hesitate to get the Batis 18 and skip the Loxka and get the Batis 25. If I was building a MF kit, however, I would count myself lucky to be able to get the Loxia.
Thanks for doing these tests. If I was planning on using this lens primarily for landscape, it'd be the Loxia in my bag. However, an UWA in my bag has to do landscapes, as well as vacation, friend events, and other family stuff. Yes, I could own two lenses for different purposes, but as opposed to owning, say, the FE 16-35 and the Loxia, I think I'll be happy with the best of both worlds in the Batis 18mm, with a sharp copy of the FE 24-70 f/4 when I need some zoom flexibility.
So my prime lineup as soon as the big brown truck shows up at my office today will be the Batis 18, FE 28, FE 55, and Batis 85. Decent spacing between FL's IMO.
GMPhotography wrote:
For me it's mostly why I bought the 24-70 was reportage. I shot a CEO this morning , I used the zoom and the 85 . The thing is I did not expect the zoom to be a landscape beast as well. I would love to own them both to be honest.
That'd be a corporate gig in my world, but agreed, for that usage the larger and better lens a big plus. The low-key reportage I'm referring to, is the kind of thing you'd shoot at public events and not necessarily with the "approval" of a PR department or CEO.
ecarlino wrote:
I think that is a very good comparison - and while it's all very personal and some may have other preferences - i appreciate how someone on a tripod building a great photograph from a landscape scene at infinity will benefit from the Loxia's MF.
On the other hand, that will likely not be me in the next decade, or ever - certainly not on a regular basis. For me, capturing 'moments' in small spaces, up close, etc is primarily what i enjoy and the situations i find myself in - and AF is ideal. And the Batis 18 delivers in spades for my purposes and I can't be more excited that after 3 yrs, i now have 5 lenses that i enjoy and respect and now it's a matter of getting to know them each and their individual nuances and learning how to get the most out of them.
I love the idea of a complete Batis kit, I think its probably the best all-around solution, but to be honest, the biggest turn-off for me is the glaring lack of a normal in the range. Zeiss really need to add a 55/1.4 ASAP.
As I understand it, Zeiss's published MTF graphs are from physical samples of the lenses? That being the case, you'd expect the Batis 18 to be more similar to the Loxia 21 than it is in Fred's comparison, so it seems possible Fred has a better than average Loxia 21 and/or a worse than average Batis 18. It would definitely be interesting to see a comparison with multiple copies.
One deciding question I have is should I bag the CV 15 since I'm playing a disturbing lottery game and just get the 18 instead and keep the 21. Than get the CV12 later. Obviously more money so if I did I would have to wait a little bit. Really not a big deal to wait. But I'm going OT so I'll stop here. I think it's worth renting and doing a Nice test on it.
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