stevei wrote:
As I understand it, Zeiss's published MTF graphs are from physical samples of the lenses? That being the case, you'd expect the Batis 18 to be more similar to the Loxia 21 than it is in Fred's comparison, so it seems possible Fred has a better than average Loxia 21 and/or a worse than average Batis 18. It would definitely be interesting to see a comparison with multiple copies.
It's very possible that there are Batis 18/2.8 copies performing similarly, better or worse than this but usually bad copies are decentered and this one is just as centered as my Loxia. I will try renting another 18/2.8 and compare to my copy. The issue I had with the Loxia 21/2.8 was decentering and took me a couple copies to get a well-centered one.
The MTF graphs between the lenses are indeed very similar but if you compare them closely, the Loxia has a slight edge on corner resolution and perhaps less astigmatism. Usually higher astigmatism lowers contrast as well.
GMPhotography wrote:
FYI lens rentals will have them for rent June 3rd
Guy, you should (if you haven't already) sign up for Lens Rentals "HD" program -- FREE shipping for $80/yr. Based on your shipping habits, the savings would probably buy you an extra lens every year!
GMPhotography wrote:
The other thing I'm looking at is wide open and here the Loxia looks much better to my eyes at least. To me the 21 looks to have more zippedy do da. Lol
Also it's wider for sure but see the Windows tilting more towards the corners on the Batis. Obviously the effect of a wider lens
Loxia has a better "matched look" to the GM's from what I've seen on these threads, the color rendition alone looks closer to the GM. Batis appears a little cooler and more sanitary in its overall rendering to my eye.
Fred Miranda wrote:
It's very possible that there are Batis 18/2.8 copies performing similarly, better or worse than this but usually bad copies are decentered and this one is just as centered as my Loxia. I will try renting another 18/2.8 and compare to my copy. The issues I had with the Loxia 21/2.8 was decentering and took me a couple copies to get a well-centered one.
The MTF graphs between the lenses are indeed very similar but the if you compare them closely, the Loxia has a slight edge on corner resolution and perhaps less astigmatism. Usually higher astigmatism lowers contrast as well....Show more →
I've noticed an awful lot of pincushion distortion into the corners on the Batis 18.
I wonder if the lens profiles will make the corners look better/worse (in terms of sharpness) after correcting for that.
Fred, I also wonder if that is why your tests are showing the Batis 18 extreme corners looking less than that of the Loxia 21's (i.e. is it more the effect of distortion rather than field curvature).
(This is all over my pay-grade, so i'm just spit-balling here)
I just received my Batis 18mm... I can't wait to go and test it. I live in NYC/NJ area, I love my Loxia 21mm and Loixa 50mm but they are not wide enough for certain situation in NYC. Hopefully the 18mm works in those situations.
Petercliff wrote:
I just received my Batis 18mm... I can't wait to go and test it. I live in NYC/NJ area, I love my Loxia 21mm and Loixa 50mm but they are not wide enough for certain situation in NYC. Hopefully the 18mm works in those situations.
if it's not too much trouble, take the Lox 21 with and get some similar shots (not necessarily identical, but same area / same lighting should be enough to give an impression of their respective characters) - thanks!
Today I did a similar test as Fred with my Batis 18mm and Loxia 21mm lenses. All images were shot from a tripod at ISO 100 with self timer, EFC, in uncompressed RAW and processed in LR with the same sharpening settings as Fred used (45/0.7/25/0).
To check for focus shift I shot all images twice with manual focus wide open and stopped down. Both lenses seem to have no focus shift. Focusing wide open always led to sharper images with these two lenses.
I also checked for field curvature and shot all images twice with manual focus on the corner and manual focus on the center.
Contrary to Fred’s findings there was no difference with my Loxia 21mm. At least with my focus distance of about 200m my Loxia showed no field curvature. At closer distances this could of course change completely. I have no idea why there is a difference between Fred’s an my results regarding FC.
My Batis showed a slight amount of field curvature. Focus on the corner led to better corner sharpness. Interestingly focus on the corner led to no visible degradation of the center sharpness compared to focusing on the center.
With both lenses but especially with the Loxia the slightest turn of the focus ring has a huge impact on sharpness. One degree on the focus ring often makes the differences between a sharp images and an unsharp images. Therefore you have to be very careful with these kinds of tests and best repeat the shots several times while focusing in-between and choose the sharpest image afterwards.
This is my test image/subject, followed by the 100% corner and center crops (since both my lenses are well centered I will show just one corner):
And here are 4 images shot at the same place and same time with both lenses. They are slightly more processed than the test images above but the processing is identical for each pair of images:
Great work and thanks for sharing.
The only obvious difference between the 2 is the sun stars.
For whatever differences one may perceive, I think they would be overshadowed by more important choices between AF / MF and focal length and lesser by things like filter size and form factor / ergonomics.
But you've been able to look at a lot more comparisons so your continued feedback is valued.
From what your shots reveal, at f5.6 the Loxia runs away with the title with NO comparison regarding the corners. Other parts of the frame are consistently identical with no advantage to either. Indeed the sunstar addition on the Loxia is yet another plus. I've been wrangling which direction to go. I've never owned nor used a manual focus lens. The fact the Loxia isn't a fly by wire setup is also a huge plus as it will have control the Batis won't in manual focus I would guess. However I find the Batis sexier and a nice size and feel. It's such a tough choice. I have just picked up the 85mm f1.8 Batis which I'm loving. So all that more difficult to turn away from the Batis. Since nobody has them readily in stock I'll have some time to deal with the decision, but it's pretty tough. That f5.6 shot on the corners sure does separate which one is MOST capable in the corners, which is obviously the Loxis. Tough decision indeed.
No doubt, both fine lenses, but the Batis does not achieve the same level of sharpness as the Loxia at any aperture in the corner test. It also appears that the Loxia is also a little sharper in the centre, certainly at wider apertures, in looking at the distant trees behind the row of buildings.
Sunstars, no contest, Loxia all the way!
In the final set, the Loxia image has a certain effervescence that is lacking in the Batis shot, aided by the beautifully rendered sunstar.
I too am generally liking the Loxia 21mm rendering better as well. Sadly that doesn't save me from still wanting the Loxia AND the Batis.
Erik's great shots above really speak to me as to how I would use the Batis 18mm - I really appreciate the sense of immersiveness those shots convey. Love it!
I've been pining for a UWA landscape lens that comes close to satisfying me as much as my Otus 55mm does and the Loxia looks very promising. It might just be the landscape lens I've been dreaming of. My Loxia arrives on Monday - hope it's as good as Boris and Fred's!
Bobu wrote:
Today I did a similar test as Fred with my Batis 18mm and Loxia 21mm lenses. All images were shot from a tripod at ISO 100 with self timer, EFC, in uncompressed RAW and processed in LR with the same sharpening settings as Fred used (45/0.7/25/0).
To check for focus shift I shot all images twice with manual focus wide open and stopped down. Both lenses seem to have no focus shift. Focusing wide open always led to sharper images with these two lenses.
I also checked for field curvature and shot all images twice with manual focus on the corner and manual focus on the center.
Contrary to Fred’s findings there was no difference with my Loxia 21mm. At least with my focus distance of about 200m my Loxia showed no field curvature. At closer distances this could of course change completely. I have no idea why there is a difference between Fred’s an my results regarding FC.
My Batis showed a slight amount of field curvature. Focus on the corner led to better corner sharpness. Interestingly focus on the corner led to no visible degradation of the center sharpness compared to focusing on the center.
With both lenses but especially with the Loxia the slightest turn of the focus ring has a huge impact on sharpness. One degree on the focus ring often makes the differences between a sharp images and an unsharp images. Therefore you have to be very careful with these kinds of tests and best repeat the shots several times while focusing in-between and choose the sharpest image afterwards....Show more →
Thanks for posting and great lighting! Your results seem very similar to what I saw on my test.
Both lenses are great in the center and corners but the Loxia is slightly better especially in the corners.
Regarding the Loxia and field curvature: This lens does have inwards field curvature (I wish it didn't ). How did you focus it? Turning the focusing ring to the hard stop makes the best edges. I agree that even a tiny rotation on the ring makes a huge difference.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Thanks for posting and great lighting! Your results seem very similar to what I saw on my test.
Both lenses are great in the center and corners but the Loxia is slightly better especially in the corners.
Regarding the Loxia and field curvature: This lens does have inwards field curvature (I wish it didn't ). How did you focus it? Turning the focusing ring to the hard stop makes the best edges. I agree that even a tiny rotation on the ring makes a huge difference.
On mine I just place the focus mark to the left hand side of the infinity symbol and at f8 all is I perfect focus from about 7-8' to infinity
Fred Miranda wrote:
Regarding the Loxia and field curvature: This lens does have inwards field curvature (I wish it didn't ). How did you focus it?
I'm not sure what you mean by 'How did you focus it?'. I used the viewfinder at maximum magnification. To find the best focus point I adjusted the focus ring several times until I get a feeling where it should be stopped for best sharpness. Is there any other way for more precise focusing?
Here are some images to show you the FC behavior of my Loxia 21mm lens:
I see no relevant difference between these images. Meaning at this focus distance there is no relevant FC with my lens.
I have no explanation why we see different FC behavior, especially since both our Loxias seem to be well centered and equally sharp wide open.
By the way, if you (or someone else) could post a comparison between the Voigtländer 15mm and the Batis 18mm that would be really helpful. If possible shot at identical light and with identical processing. I would like to compare the overall contrast of both lenses and of course the corner sharpness. I'm still not sure whether I should try another CV15 after my desaster with the first sample.
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). How did you focus it? Turning the focusing ring to the hard stop makes the best edges. I agree that even a tiny rotation on the ring makes a huge difference.
