morrismike wrote:
If you could only have one camera what would it be? Two cameras? Is the D500 better than most FFs not named D4?
It depends. Looking the overall camera, not just ISO, if I could only have one camera for wildlife, yes, it would be the D500. The more I shoot with it, the better I like it. It just doesn't miss if you treat it right.
However, I also do landscapes as well, so if I had to choose just one overall camera I thought would work best for both landscape and wildlife, I'd still pick the D810. D500 is great for wildlife and action, but I'd hesitate to say it's the "best" overall camera for everything. I think the D810 still holds that title - at least for me personally.
Going forward, I think the D500 and D810 will be my most used cameras, depending on what's in front of the lens.
Steen DK wrote:
Never mind, I have now had the opportunity to convert the two comparison files with Capture NX-D and here the colors are far more alike when using this dedicated Nikon converter.
The D500 colors look perfectly fine now, actually even a tad better than the D7200 colors - at least to my eye.
The difference I saw in your posted comparison images may have been due to the camera dependent color profiles in the RAW converter you use.
Thanks a lot for the comparison files, Steve, they provide very useful information.
I think that's correct - I don't know if I really like the Adobe Standard profile for the D500. However, when I switch to Camera Neutral in LR things look much better and I really like the colors - A LOT. In fact, I think they are on par with the D810 - my favorite camera for color rendition. Nikon did a great job on this one IMO.
Bill Claff has added the D500 to his "Photographic Dynamic Range" comparison chart. The result is, the D500 is about 1/4 quarter stop better than the D7200 at higher ISOs while the D7200 is an equally tiny bit better below ISO 400. All in all, not much of a difference, just like Steve's test shows.
Dpreview just published the ISO findings for the D500 and they jive with what we've found here. It looks like it's close when the files are shown at the same size. The D500 looks a just a bit better than the D7200 when everything is native size of course. Overall, it's a wash IMO. I tried a bunch of different areas on the photo - sometimes with the D500 coming out on top and sometimes with the D7200 edging it out. Overall, just not much ISO difference.
However, I did notice that the D500 seems to retain more detail at higher ISOs, so even if the noise level is the same, more detail is always better - and may be why the D500 seems to do so well at high ISO (speculating here).
Also, I compared the D750 and D810 - looks like DX is good, but still not FX good (again, no surprise there). It looks like the D750 still has a stop or so IMO.
Steve Perry wrote:
It depends. Looking the overall camera, not just ISO, if I could only have one camera for wildlife, yes, it would be the D500. The more I shoot with it, the better I like it. It just doesn't miss if you treat it right.
However, I also do landscapes as well, so if I had to choose just one overall camera I thought would work best for both landscape and wildlife, I'd still pick the D810. D500 is great for wildlife and action, but I'd hesitate to say it's the "best" overall camera for everything. I think the D810 still holds that title - at least for me personally.
Going forward, I think the D500 and D810 will be my most used cameras, depending on what's in front of the lens. ...Show more →
That's a very straight forward answer. I imagine they'll be very many "youtube camera legends" that could not type those same words even if they believed them to be true. In DX mode, the D810 seems to be very competitive with the D500 and has stuff the D500 doesn't. Maybe someday the D500 will get some of the D810 secret sauce and vice versa.
Meanwhile I'm still waiting for my D500 and anxiously waiting for you to share your camera setting and lessons learned. I and others are very appreciative of you back button focus and auto iso youtubes as game changers for regular camera folks. I think you are one of if not the most helpful guy out there and provide actual helpful tips. You have no idea how much benefit a lot of us will get from your initial observations.
morrismike wrote:
That's a very straight forward answer. I imagine they'll be very many "youtube camera legends" that could not type those same words even if they believed them to be true. In DX mode, the D810 seems to be very competitive with the D500 and has stuff the D500 doesn't. Maybe someday the D500 will get some of the D810 secret sauce and vice versa.
Meanwhile I'm still waiting for my D500 and anxiously waiting for you to share your camera setting and lessons learned. I and others are very appreciative of you back button focus and auto iso youtubes as game changers for regular camera folks. I think you are one of if not the most helpful guy out there and provide actual helpful tips. You have no idea how much benefit a lot of us will get from your initial observations.
So far, I'm mostly using Group AF and D25 for in flight shots, and single point for static poses (as usual). I played with 3d a bit and it actually works pretty well! I'll need a little more time to play before I decide if it's something I'll use.
Otherwise, most of my flight shots have been manual + Auto ISO, 1/2000th ~1/4000th, and about a stop down from wide open on my 600mm (F5.6 in this case). Pretty much my normal setup really.
Steve, from looking at your sample images and other sample images and from my very brief use of the D500, I agree that if I had to pick one camera to encompass my wildlife use and landscapes etc, then it would still be the D810. However, I have no doubt that the D500 will be an outstanding birding, wildlife and sports camera for those that require this aspect of use. Not only that, but it will still be an outstanding general use camera as well, I just think the D810 is still marginally better, for me, as a general use camera due to it's better high ISO ability. The D500 will be in my bag alongside the D810 as a "quasi" 1.5x TC for my birding and wildlife use. There is an advantage for that high frame rate.
Lance B wrote:
Steve, from looking at your sample images and other sample images and from my very brief use of the D500, I agree that if I had to pick one camera to encompass my wildlife use and landscapes etc, then it would still be the D810. However, I have no doubt that the D500 will be an outstanding birding, wildlife and sports camera for those that require this aspect of use. Not only that, but it will still be an outstanding general use camera as well, I just think the D810 is still marginally better, for me, as a general use camera due to it's better high ISO ability. The D500 will be in my bag alongside the D810 as a "quasi" 1.5x TC for my birding and wildlife use. There is an advantage for that high frame rate. ...Show more →
Is the D810 better at high ISO than the D500?
Based on the comparison, the D810 seems 2/3 of a stop worse than the D500 at 12,800.
The D750 seems 2/3 maybe 1 stop better than the D500.
The D810 clearly looked better in the +5 EV push comparison on my laptop. It also looked just slightly better than the D750 in the "Print" comparison at +5 EV.
I'm on my phone now, so I can't see as clearly. It looks like the D7200 and D810 look similar, and the D500 and D750 look similar.
The D7200 and D810 both show more chroma noise, with deeper blacks.
The D500 and D750 have more luminance noise and less chroma noise. I think it is a matter of "pick your poison?"
+++
I think Steve said he is probably too conservative about the ISO he finds usable. As a former studio shooter, I find 6400 is usually my limit for full frame, and 3200 for APS-C. At least "up to now", with my D750, D810, D7200, D5300, and D5500. I haven't used the D500.... but I don't pay a lot of attention to 12,800.
Steve - I tried an unscientific compare on my D810, D4s and D500 and you are right. At 3200 -6400 ISO I can't make out much of a difference though the D810 file seem less "likeable" at 6400 than from the D4s or the D500.
It was pretty much ugly light by the time I got from work today, will try some more tomorrow but your comparison is spot on.
Steve, I am curious what your ISO limit on a D3s was? I ask because you mentioned earlier in this forum that your limit for the D500 was likely to be around ISO 4000. I am personally wondering how the D500 compares to the D3s? Thanks, please keep sending out pics!
Lance B wrote:
Steve, from looking at your sample images and other sample images and from my very brief use of the D500, I agree that if I had to pick one camera to encompass my wildlife use and landscapes etc, then it would still be the D810. However, I have no doubt that the D500 will be an outstanding birding, wildlife and sports camera for those that require this aspect of use. Not only that, but it will still be an outstanding general use camera as well, I just think the D810 is still marginally better, for me, as a general use camera due to it's better high ISO ability. The D500 will be in my bag alongside the D810 as a "quasi" 1.5x TC for my birding and wildlife use. There is an advantage for that high frame rate. ...Show more →
I hear ya. For me, I think the D500 will be my go-to for wildlife, with the 810 coming in as appropriate (those times when I don't need speed and I'm in FX range). I was thinking of a D5 as well, but I'm starting to think I may not go that route.
groob wrote:
Steve, I am curious what your ISO limit on a D3s was? I ask because you mentioned earlier in this forum that your limit for the D500 was likely to be around ISO 4000. I am personally wondering how the D500 compares to the D3s? Thanks, please keep sending out pics!
I never had a D3s, so I can't answer that one. For my D3, I think I liked it up to 800~1600 - with 3200 getting the call if I really (really) needed it. However, I really can't recall for certain, sorry.
How do things look in the "normal" ISO 400-800 range? Having shot FX for years I may need convincing that the DX penalty for rendition of color and fine detail is negligible. Do you like the files?
Christian H wrote:
How do things look in the "normal" ISO 400-800 range? Having shot FX for years I may need convincing that the DX penalty for rendition of color and fine detail is negligible. Do you like the files?
I really do. So far, I'm almost thinking these files are very reminiscent of the D810 - BUT - I haven't worked with them much and what I have done has been on my laptop and not my main imaging computer.
Here's an example. Not a very good shot (the big guy landed right next to me so I took a headshot), but I do like the color and detail. ISO 400. I've put in the full image and the 100% crop. (Not sure why I had it at F/8 - I must have hit the dial on accident)
Also, this was just a quick LR conversion using the Adobe Standard Profile (looked good for this shot, I'm not sure I like it so well for others, camera neutral seems to be better most of the time)
Lance B wrote:
That's amazing!! It's exactly what I was thinking when I started looking at the D500 files!!
Glad it's not just my imagination (I thought it might be). It's hard when you're not on your normal computer to know for sure. I think the D810 + D500 might be the best overall combo going for nature photographers.
I and others are very appreciative of you back button focus and auto iso youtubes as game changers for regular camera folks. I think you are one of if not the most helpful guy out there and provide actual helpful tips. You have no idea how much benefit a lot of us will get from your initial observations.
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