This topic is in the 2016 archive. You can read it and like its posts here. It is read only.
Archive 201690mm MF Alt for A7?
p.3 #190mm MF Alt for A7?
johnahill wrote:
I was very lucky and got one at half price when Robert White were selling off the discontinued stock.
I wish I'd been looking for one then :o(
I was very lucky and got one at half price when Robert White were selling off the discontinued stock.
I wish I'd been looking for one then :o(
Feb 16, 2016 at 03:43 AM
p.3 #290mm MF Alt for A7?
flash wrote:
... on the A7, I would still, and do, put up with the weight penalty of the makro-planar. I have the ZF version and it's soooooo good on the A7RII.
Gordon
I know! It's SO good, it's rather spoilt me for anything and everything else!
I'm slowly working my way through the "alternatives" and nothing has yet come close to really satisfying me like the Makro-Planar did....except for a lower weight advantage. Even stopped down, not many really "sing".
The PKK 85/1.8 was a big disappointment, VERY soft and glowy until about F/5.6, but then at F11, very good indeed, up with the best, but not what I want!
I think the copy I tried, of the Contax Sonnar 100/3.5 (MM), must have been poor. Very sharp in edges and corners, but weak in the centre! (very unusual!)
Even the Tokina ATX 90/2.5 disappointed me, being rather "flat" in its rendering.
I have an FD 100/2 on the way to me, and I'm bidding on an TS-E 90/2.8, and once again wondering about trying a NAiS 105/2.5. The search continues......!
At least I don't lose too much with buying then selling, as I try them out, not that I very often manage to "buy low, sell high". I consider the small losses to be hire costs.
... on the A7, I would still, and do, put up with the weight penalty of the makro-planar. I have the ZF version and it's soooooo good on the A7RII.
Gordon
I know! It's SO good, it's rather spoilt me for anything and everything else!
I'm slowly working my way through the "alternatives" and nothing has yet come close to really satisfying me like the Makro-Planar did....except for a lower weight advantage. Even stopped down, not many really "sing".
The PKK 85/1.8 was a big disappointment, VERY soft and glowy until about F/5.6, but then at F11, very good indeed, up with the best, but not what I want!
I think the copy I tried, of the Contax Sonnar 100/3.5 (MM), must have been poor. Very sharp in edges and corners, but weak in the centre! (very unusual!)
Even the Tokina ATX 90/2.5 disappointed me, being rather "flat" in its rendering.
I have an FD 100/2 on the way to me, and I'm bidding on an TS-E 90/2.8, and once again wondering about trying a NAiS 105/2.5. The search continues......!
At least I don't lose too much with buying then selling, as I try them out, not that I very often manage to "buy low, sell high". I consider the small losses to be hire costs.
Feb 26, 2016 at 04:49 AM
p.3 #390mm MF Alt for A7?
Another Contax 100mm f3.5 user here, small, light and relatively inexpensive.
Feb 26, 2016 at 07:21 AM
p.3 #490mm MF Alt for A7?
timballic wrote:
I have an FD 100/2 on the way to me, and I'm bidding on an TS-E 90/2.8, and once again wondering about trying a NAiS 105/2.5. The search continues......!
Nice choices, Tim. The FD 2/100 thrills me too, the price can be good too if you are lucky. Another option could be the Olympus 2/100 although it is quite rare and expensive. I have a Olympus 2.8/100 here, still have to check that lens.
My other new lens that covers 90mm is the 100-400G... Hell, that is a big boy
I have an FD 100/2 on the way to me, and I'm bidding on an TS-E 90/2.8, and once again wondering about trying a NAiS 105/2.5. The search continues......!
Nice choices, Tim. The FD 2/100 thrills me too, the price can be good too if you are lucky. Another option could be the Olympus 2/100 although it is quite rare and expensive. I have a Olympus 2.8/100 here, still have to check that lens.
My other new lens that covers 90mm is the 100-400G... Hell, that is a big boy
Feb 26, 2016 at 07:29 AM
p.3 #590mm MF Alt for A7?
Jannik Peters wrote:
Nice choices, Tim. The FD 2/100 thrills me too, the price can be good too if you are lucky. Another option could be the Olympus 2/100 although it is quite rare and expensive. I have a Olympus 2.8/100 here, still have to check that lens.
My other new lens that covers 90mm is the 100-400G... Hell, that is a big boy
Haha, a 100-400 is definitely NOT on my wish list.
I actually do have the OM 100/2
and for some things it is king. i.e. buttery smooth bokeh and "reasonable" sharpness, but still not the "bite" of the Zeiss, and not that good for anything close despite focussing down to 0.7m , indeed my present best 100mm, stopped down, the MD 100/2.5 (last version), and 2nd best, the Nikon E 100/2.8, both better it, except for its wonderful bokeh. That's why I really want to try an OM 90/2, but they're even rarer at prices I can afford, (one just went for £700)
I already have an OM 100/2.8,(late MC ver.) but I find it nothing special (it's my second try, and both the same), as the corners never get fully sharp, though I imagine it might be good as a portrait lens.
The Sonnar 100/3.5 I managed to get, after a long time trying, has a weaker centre definition than I expected. I fully expected it to at least equal the performance of the MD, and better the Nikon E. It may just be a poor copy, though it's a late 69xxxx Ser. No. I might try yet another. I should never have sold my first one :o(
Nice choices, Tim. The FD 2/100 thrills me too, the price can be good too if you are lucky. Another option could be the Olympus 2/100 although it is quite rare and expensive. I have a Olympus 2.8/100 here, still have to check that lens.
My other new lens that covers 90mm is the 100-400G... Hell, that is a big boy
Haha, a 100-400 is definitely NOT on my wish list.
I actually do have the OM 100/2
and for some things it is king. i.e. buttery smooth bokeh and "reasonable" sharpness, but still not the "bite" of the Zeiss, and not that good for anything close despite focussing down to 0.7m , indeed my present best 100mm, stopped down, the MD 100/2.5 (last version), and 2nd best, the Nikon E 100/2.8, both better it, except for its wonderful bokeh. That's why I really want to try an OM 90/2, but they're even rarer at prices I can afford, (one just went for £700)I already have an OM 100/2.8,(late MC ver.) but I find it nothing special (it's my second try, and both the same), as the corners never get fully sharp, though I imagine it might be good as a portrait lens.
The Sonnar 100/3.5 I managed to get, after a long time trying, has a weaker centre definition than I expected. I fully expected it to at least equal the performance of the MD, and better the Nikon E. It may just be a poor copy, though it's a late 69xxxx Ser. No. I might try yet another. I should never have sold my first one :o(
Feb 26, 2016 at 09:34 AM
p.3 #690mm MF Alt for A7?
I don't know how this would work on sony but I have a mid 1980s 90 Cron that I really like. It's not only incredibly sharp but it renders very nicely and you can find them around for a very good price.
Feb 26, 2016 at 09:40 AM
p.3 #790mm MF Alt for A7?
Thanks airfrog, from what I've read, (if we're talking about the 90/2 Summicron-R )from what I've gathered it doesn't excel at wide open performance. Does that fit your experience?
Feb 26, 2016 at 09:42 AM
p.3 #890mm MF Alt for A7?
I was talking about the M. It rocks wide-open. I recently sold all my Canon gear and I had an 85L and a crazy good Canon lens (200 2L)
Heres a portrait I shot wide open of a nurse with the M 262 and 90 cron...
Heres a portrait I shot wide open of a nurse with the M 262 and 90 cron...
Feb 26, 2016 at 10:14 AM
p.3 #990mm MF Alt for A7?
Thanks airfrog, I will investigate further. Any one else care to comment?
Feb 26, 2016 at 10:21 AM
p.3 #1090mm MF Alt for A7?
Tim,I think that you'll not manage to find anything matching your gone 100/2 MP exactly.Looking for the repalcement,some compromises,especially on wide open/close up performance are inevitable.But that makes a possible list very long,ie,many 85-90-100-105 lenses.Which one would you prefer to get an opinion on?
Edited on Feb 27, 2016 at 09:31 AM · View previous versions
Edited on Feb 27, 2016 at 09:31 AM · View previous versions
Feb 26, 2016 at 12:19 PM
p.3 #1190mm MF Alt for A7?
Yes, I'm finding that out Piere.
I think right now, I'm wondering whether it's worth venturing into the world of Leica and the pre-APO Summicron M 90/2. Apart from that I'm still hoping an OM Zuko 90/2 comes up that I can afford. After that, I think I'll go with the best of what I have.
I did seriously consider rebuying the 100/2 MP but I have health problems, and I changed to the A7 from the 5DII and Zeiss lenses to reduce weight, (and to get better DR ;o))
I think right now, I'm wondering whether it's worth venturing into the world of Leica and the pre-APO Summicron M 90/2. Apart from that I'm still hoping an OM Zuko 90/2 comes up that I can afford. After that, I think I'll go with the best of what I have.
I did seriously consider rebuying the 100/2 MP but I have health problems, and I changed to the A7 from the 5DII and Zeiss lenses to reduce weight, (and to get better DR ;o))
Feb 26, 2016 at 01:23 PM
p.3 #1290mm MF Alt for A7?
timballic wrote:
Thanks airfrog, I will investigate further. Any one else care to comment?
it is very sharp wide open in the central 2/3 of the frame (it's the same lens I posted a bunch of pics from earlier in the thread), but it does have noticeable SA wide open. I much prefer it to the 100mp but it has very different look and certainly not as much pop as the zeiss at large aperture.
Feb 26, 2016 at 11:39 PM
p.3 #1390mm MF Alt for A7?
DSC08635 by Charlie Webster, on Flickr
Lacony Pony by unoh7, on Flickr
That's the 90 Summarit WO on A7.mod which is very compact. The 90 APO is considered by some to be the sharpest M lens. I've tried the Elmarit-M, great but a bit long and heavy compared to the Summarit, and no sharper, and the CV 90 APO, really good but not as sharp as the Summarit. The Bokina is really sharp, fantastic even at infinity, but Leica colors are much richer, and the Bokina is really heavy. The little TE 90 is pretty good too but behind these ones even at f/8.
My Summarit was not quite as nice before the Kolari Mod, but still very good.
Here's the CV 90 LTM at F/3.5
The Tops by unoh7, on Flickr
Frankly, I suspect the DSLR mount CV 90s are probably better.
One more WO with the Lanthar:
DSC08579 by unoh7, on Flickr
Bokeh on Lanthar is unique.....
Here at f/4 infinity it's pretty strong:
DSC08557 by unoh7, on Flickr
Here on M9 just to see the OOF:
L1006291 by unoh7, on Flickr
Pretty decent for 350USD
Anyway, for me a big heavy 90 is generally going nowhere. But this little 258 gram Lanthar or the 20% more substantial Summarit are light enough I often ski with them.
Another odd sleeper is the 200 gram Canon LTM 100/3.5, I think I will take that out tomorrow on the A7. It is dated in the coatings, but much sharper than I ever expected. They are under 200USD
Feb 27, 2016 at 12:47 AM
p.3 #1490mm MF Alt for A7?
Thanks for examples Uhoh, I agree, the CV 90 is very good. Love that last one especially. I discounted the LTM Canon early on because so much of my photography is into the light, and I doubt it's coatings would cope well. That said, I believe the Nikon E is also single coated and it does well.
Feb 27, 2016 at 06:21 AM
p.3 #1590mm MF Alt for A7?
it's no wonder I'm confused, I just looked up Erwin Puts 2002 Leica catalogue, and there have been 19 versions of just the "M" 90mms!
However, from brief research, it does seem that for what I want, sharp wide open, with rapid fall off to good soft bokeh, just as Samuli pointed out on pg 1, probably only the latest Apo Summicron would give me what I'm looking for in Leica land.
If it were ⅓ or even ½ the price used, I'd be looking
However, from brief research, it does seem that for what I want, sharp wide open, with rapid fall off to good soft bokeh, just as Samuli pointed out on pg 1, probably only the latest Apo Summicron would give me what I'm looking for in Leica land.
If it were ⅓ or even ½ the price used, I'd be looking
Feb 27, 2016 at 06:28 AM
p.3 #1690mm MF Alt for A7?
Tim,
I was just going to comment on the Leica 90 cron (pre-AA in either R or M mount- I had the R mount). I very much liked the lens. It was reasonably sharp wide open and very sharp stopped down to f/4. Like sebboh said it has SA that doesn't totally clear up until f/4. It has some lateral CA as well, but I very much liked the look of the lens and the bokeh is very nice. Close up performance is very nice with the Elpro III close up lens and gets you to about 1 to 3 magnification. AFAIK, the R and M mount are the same optical formula, but the M mount is smaller in diameter and weight (about 75 grams lighter) and has more aperture blades (11 vs. 8). The M version to look for is version III with the built in hood and 55mm threads and serial number above 2814XXX. Any R version that is non-AA has the same optical formula. The R version also has a closer minimum focus distance of .7M versus 1M for the M version.
I was just going to comment on the Leica 90 cron (pre-AA in either R or M mount- I had the R mount). I very much liked the lens. It was reasonably sharp wide open and very sharp stopped down to f/4. Like sebboh said it has SA that doesn't totally clear up until f/4. It has some lateral CA as well, but I very much liked the look of the lens and the bokeh is very nice. Close up performance is very nice with the Elpro III close up lens and gets you to about 1 to 3 magnification. AFAIK, the R and M mount are the same optical formula, but the M mount is smaller in diameter and weight (about 75 grams lighter) and has more aperture blades (11 vs. 8). The M version to look for is version III with the built in hood and 55mm threads and serial number above 2814XXX. Any R version that is non-AA has the same optical formula. The R version also has a closer minimum focus distance of .7M versus 1M for the M version.
Feb 27, 2016 at 09:39 AM
p.3 #1790mm MF Alt for A7?
timballic wrote:
Yes, I'm finding that out Piere.
I think right now, I'm wondering whether it's worth venturing into the world of Leica and the pre-APO Summicron M 90/2. Apart from that I'm still hoping an OM Zuko 90/2 comes up that I can afford. After that, I think I'll go with the best of what I have.
I did seriously consider rebuying the 100/2 MP but I have health problems, and I changed to the A7 from the 5DII and Zeiss lenses to reduce weight, (and to get better DR ;o))
I have both the OM Zuiko 90/2 and the Summicron 90/2 pre asph,but R,not M.Superb lenses.But very diffrent from the MP 100/2,0.
A7+Summicron R 90/2.0 - superb Leica colours and glow
at f4
http://www.zeissimages.com/gallery/951/U951I1451213575.SEQ.7.jpg
http://www.zeissimages.com/gallery/951/U951I1451213705.SEQ.0.jpg
and f2.0
http://www.zeissimages.com/gallery/951/U951I1451213894.SEQ.0.jpg
A7+OM Zuiko Macro 90/2.0
wide open - mild CA removed by one click in the LR 5.6
http://www.zeissimages.com/gallery/951/U951I1424028307.SEQ.3.jpg
http://www.zeissimages.com/gallery/951/U951I1424028305.SEQ.2.jpg
at f8
http://www.zeissimages.com/gallery/951/U951I1422123030.SEQ.1.jpg
Edited on Feb 28, 2016 at 01:12 AM · View previous versions
Yes, I'm finding that out Piere.
I think right now, I'm wondering whether it's worth venturing into the world of Leica and the pre-APO Summicron M 90/2. Apart from that I'm still hoping an OM Zuko 90/2 comes up that I can afford. After that, I think I'll go with the best of what I have.
I did seriously consider rebuying the 100/2 MP but I have health problems, and I changed to the A7 from the 5DII and Zeiss lenses to reduce weight, (and to get better DR ;o))
I have both the OM Zuiko 90/2 and the Summicron 90/2 pre asph,but R,not M.Superb lenses.But very diffrent from the MP 100/2,0.
A7+Summicron R 90/2.0 - superb Leica colours and glow
at f4
http://www.zeissimages.com/gallery/951/U951I1451213575.SEQ.7.jpg
http://www.zeissimages.com/gallery/951/U951I1451213705.SEQ.0.jpg
and f2.0
http://www.zeissimages.com/gallery/951/U951I1451213894.SEQ.0.jpg
A7+OM Zuiko Macro 90/2.0
wide open - mild CA removed by one click in the LR 5.6
http://www.zeissimages.com/gallery/951/U951I1424028307.SEQ.3.jpg
http://www.zeissimages.com/gallery/951/U951I1424028305.SEQ.2.jpg
at f8
http://www.zeissimages.com/gallery/951/U951I1422123030.SEQ.1.jpg
Edited on Feb 28, 2016 at 01:12 AM · View previous versions
Feb 27, 2016 at 09:46 AM
p.3 #1890mm MF Alt for A7?
timballic wrote:
it's no wonder I'm confused, I just looked up Erwin Puts 2002 Leica catalogue, and there have been 19 versions of just the "M" 90mms!
However, from brief research, it does seem that for what I want, sharp wide open, with rapid fall off to good soft bokeh, just as Samuli pointed out on pg 1, probably only the latest Apo Summicron would give me what I'm looking for in Leica land.
If it were ⅓ or even ½ the price used, I'd be looking
How much do you to spend?
I have my 75-100 set divided into the fast lenses which are not used casually, i.e. I have to have a good reason like low light, and those are the 74 Lux and Canon 100/2 LTM, and then the portables which are the CV and Summarit, Around these main stars are a nebula of character glass (bunch of old RF 85s, and nikkor 105s) and special purpose lens like the Bokina.
You might have a look at samples from the Elmarit-M and the Hex 90/2.8 on flickr. The former is better WO nice bokeh, but the latter has really sweet bokeh. The Elmarit is falling in price and the Hex is around 500. It's really compact, smaller and lighter even than the Summarit with a very nice build. Calibration for M9 is not a given, but for Sony....well I would really like to own one.
M-Hex 90/2.8 Wide Open on M9:
L1003067 by unoh7, on Flickr
What the M-Hex looks like
And, here's one for a good price here at FM now
Below are two shots from Elmarit-M: (the last and best Leica 90/2.8)
L1003603 by unoh7, on Flickr
L1003665 by unoh7, on Flickr
it's no wonder I'm confused, I just looked up Erwin Puts 2002 Leica catalogue, and there have been 19 versions of just the "M" 90mms!
However, from brief research, it does seem that for what I want, sharp wide open, with rapid fall off to good soft bokeh, just as Samuli pointed out on pg 1, probably only the latest Apo Summicron would give me what I'm looking for in Leica land.
If it were ⅓ or even ½ the price used, I'd be looking
How much do you to spend?
I have my 75-100 set divided into the fast lenses which are not used casually, i.e. I have to have a good reason like low light, and those are the 74 Lux and Canon 100/2 LTM, and then the portables which are the CV and Summarit, Around these main stars are a nebula of character glass (bunch of old RF 85s, and nikkor 105s) and special purpose lens like the Bokina.
You might have a look at samples from the Elmarit-M and the Hex 90/2.8 on flickr. The former is better WO nice bokeh, but the latter has really sweet bokeh. The Elmarit is falling in price and the Hex is around 500. It's really compact, smaller and lighter even than the Summarit with a very nice build. Calibration for M9 is not a given, but for Sony....well I would really like to own one.
M-Hex 90/2.8 Wide Open on M9:
L1003067 by unoh7, on Flickr
What the M-Hex looks like
And, here's one for a good price here at FM now
Below are two shots from Elmarit-M: (the last and best Leica 90/2.8)
L1003603 by unoh7, on Flickr
L1003665 by unoh7, on Flickr
Feb 27, 2016 at 09:57 AM
p.3 #1990mm MF Alt for A7?
Hey thanks guys, this is great input and very helpful.
Steve, the R Summicron seems to sell at "reasonable" prices, starting ~£300 (Looking at eBay history) I could manage that ;o) Pity it's heavier though....and needing a longer adapter than the M..
The M (pre AA Ver. III) seems to start a lot higher, ~ £500, That's where I usually stop.
I wonder why the difference?
[EDIT. Possibly I'm not comparing like for like, some discrepancy on sites as to which Ser numbers are for the latest pre AA version, the above prices all seem to be for R, Ser # starting 30... and 31..., but on Thorsten Overgaard's compendium he says they start at 3381677 and the above are the earlier '70-'77 ver. In which case the R version is possibly more expensive than the M !?]
Piere, I really like the look of the Summicron R there. Have you any more from the OM90 wide open, it seems a less sharp transition from sharp to unsharp, which isn't as sebboh described it, but that may just be the distance away of the sharp focussed trunk. Also the colour is more muted, or is that the processing? From just those examples, I don't see any advantage over the OM 100/2, perhaps there isn't any? (except for close up of course)
uhoh, price wise I don't like venturing above £500,( and most of my lenses tend to be under half that), though I did go a lot higher for the ZE MP 100/2, so for something REALLY special I would. For instance, IF the APO Summicron were ~ £800, sadly it's usually nearly twice that.
I think you're probably right about the "fast" and the "slower" though, (except perhaps for the MP 100/2 and the Apo Summicron), it seems that the ones with best bokeh aren't "that" sharp, and vice versa.
From what I've seen, I far prefer the softer bokeh of the Summicron to the Elmarit, though I expect the Elmarit might be the sharper of the two, stopped down. The Hex I hadn't considered, but I'll look into it. Any more from it wide open outside?
Steve, the R Summicron seems to sell at "reasonable" prices, starting ~£300 (Looking at eBay history) I could manage that ;o) Pity it's heavier though....and needing a longer adapter than the M..
The M (pre AA Ver. III) seems to start a lot higher, ~ £500, That's where I usually stop.
I wonder why the difference?
[EDIT. Possibly I'm not comparing like for like, some discrepancy on sites as to which Ser numbers are for the latest pre AA version, the above prices all seem to be for R, Ser # starting 30... and 31..., but on Thorsten Overgaard's compendium he says they start at 3381677 and the above are the earlier '70-'77 ver. In which case the R version is possibly more expensive than the M !?]
Piere, I really like the look of the Summicron R there. Have you any more from the OM90 wide open, it seems a less sharp transition from sharp to unsharp, which isn't as sebboh described it, but that may just be the distance away of the sharp focussed trunk. Also the colour is more muted, or is that the processing? From just those examples, I don't see any advantage over the OM 100/2, perhaps there isn't any? (except for close up of course)
uhoh, price wise I don't like venturing above £500,( and most of my lenses tend to be under half that), though I did go a lot higher for the ZE MP 100/2, so for something REALLY special I would. For instance, IF the APO Summicron were ~ £800, sadly it's usually nearly twice that.
I think you're probably right about the "fast" and the "slower" though, (except perhaps for the MP 100/2 and the Apo Summicron), it seems that the ones with best bokeh aren't "that" sharp, and vice versa.
From what I've seen, I far prefer the softer bokeh of the Summicron to the Elmarit, though I expect the Elmarit might be the sharper of the two, stopped down. The Hex I hadn't considered, but I'll look into it. Any more from it wide open outside?
Feb 27, 2016 at 02:31 PM
p.3 #2090mm MF Alt for A7?
timballic wrote:
Hey thanks guys, this is great input and very helpful.
Steve, the R Summicron seems to sell at "reasonable" prices, starting ~£300 (Looking at eBay history) I could manage that ;o) Pity it's heavier though....and needing a longer adapter than the M..
The M (pre AA Ver. III) seems to start a lot higher, ~ £500, That's where I usually stop.
I wonder why the difference?
[EDIT. Possibly I'm not comparing like for like, some discrepancy on sites as to which Ser numbers are for the latest pre AA version, the above prices all seem to be for R, Ser # starting...Show more →
Tim,
All (non-AA) Leica R 90 summicrons are the same optically, but they have different housings. The older ones have a two piece hood and Series 7 filter threads (and perhaps different coatings). The new ones have a one piece hood and E55 filter threads. Some of the older ones have the Series 7 threads converted to E55 (I know because the one I had was one of these). All have 8 aperture blades. I think you pay a lot for the new housing, so my advice would be to get one of the older ones, but YMMV.
Hey thanks guys, this is great input and very helpful.
Steve, the R Summicron seems to sell at "reasonable" prices, starting ~£300 (Looking at eBay history) I could manage that ;o) Pity it's heavier though....and needing a longer adapter than the M..
The M (pre AA Ver. III) seems to start a lot higher, ~ £500, That's where I usually stop.
I wonder why the difference?
[EDIT. Possibly I'm not comparing like for like, some discrepancy on sites as to which Ser numbers are for the latest pre AA version, the above prices all seem to be for R, Ser # starting...Show more →
Tim,
All (non-AA) Leica R 90 summicrons are the same optically, but they have different housings. The older ones have a two piece hood and Series 7 filter threads (and perhaps different coatings). The new ones have a one piece hood and E55 filter threads. Some of the older ones have the Series 7 threads converted to E55 (I know because the one I had was one of these). All have 8 aperture blades. I think you pay a lot for the new housing, so my advice would be to get one of the older ones, but YMMV.
Feb 27, 2016 at 03:39 PM