Steve Spencer wrote:
The 50 APO is a fantastic lens and the look would be great, but the M lenses really have too short of a focus throw for video and no way to de-click the aperture. You would be better off with the Arri/Zeiss 50 t/1.9 ultra prime for video on the SL and it would work well with the PL to L mount adapter. It would cost a fair bit more than the 50 APO (believe it or not) but not nearly as much as the T/1.3 master prime. Those Arri/Zeiss are absolutely gorgeous lenses.
But I wouldn't get that amazing yet concerning flare that the 50APO is known for
Steve Spencer wrote:
The 50 APO is a fantastic lens and the look would be great, but the M lenses really have too short of a focus throw for video and no way to de-click the aperture. You would be better off with the Arri/Zeiss 50 t/1.9 ultra prime for video on the SL and it would work well with the PL to L mount adapter. It would cost a fair bit more than the 50 APO (believe it or not) but not nearly as much as the T/1.3 master prime. Those Arri/Zeiss are absolutely gorgeous lenses.
I don't know, this shooting motion with still camera form factor nonsense makes sense when it's a significant cost and size savings. The way they were using it at first, which was using a 5D II when you had to shoot somewhere a giant Arri film camera couldn't fit and using a real camera the rest of the time, it made sense. Now, it's out of control, trying to use them full time. These giant franken-rigs that cost more than the GH4 or Pocket Cinema camera they're wrapped around (not to mention quadrupling their size), mounting Master Primes and using giant professional matte boxes (which ALSO cost more than the camera being used)...I'm not buying it. When we're talking about the cost of Ultra Primes, you might as well buy a camera that's actually designed for this. Hell, it's not necessarily even more expensive, a Red Raven's going to be cheaper than an SL.
Edit: And they just announced Raven was going to have an ~APS-C sensor size rather than the announced ~m4/3. No cost increase. Tell me more about how what Sony's doing with the annual iterations to change the grip size 10% is respectable practice.
zhangyue wrote:
I thought you were saying it is good, No? That will be really disappointing! S2 and S006's shutter is the biggest complain I have about the system along with no LV.
CaNikon seems manage to nail this with almost any body they introduced.
SHUTTER IS GREAT.. Shutter release button has the same feel as the S-006. As in the actual feel to the button. It doesn't matter anyway because I'm sure you use back button focus, no?
adamdewilde wrote:
SHUTTER IS GREAT.. Shutter release button has the same feel as the S-006. As in the actual feel to the button. It doesn't matter anyway because I'm sure you use back button focus, no?
I do. I am not talking about half press feeling but subtle feeling to hold or fire. I think Nikon has been great on these, D700 is great. D810 is quietest, DF is almost as good. I can secure the moment. A7xyz suck in comparison. M9 is also like a P&S in comparison. and S006 and S2 are no where as good with substantial delay.
Hello everybody,
Leica SL seems to be a very attractive FF Body.
I am not convinced by A7x's EVF at all. It still reminds me when the first Bridge Nikon Coolpix camera was thrown on the market. "Who can buy this kind of rubbish?" I said to myself.
With EVF Leica SL, I think I have to reconsider my thoughts. That is the point. I love OVF and non auto-focus lenses. I can't stand my camera to decide where to focus. I want to keep the will of choosing myself where I focus. I actually am not against auto-focus lenses, it can help, but I love so much manual focusing...
Why OVF is so interesting for me? I love my Leica-R lenses. For people who have Leica-R lenses on tierce SDLR bodies, they know how difficult it is to focus as diaphragm getting smaller! EVF can overcome with opening darkening... That is an excellent reason to prefer EVF to OVF as long as 60 Hz EVF refreshment/frequency is enough to work comfortably.
24 Mpx seems ridiculous towards A7RII/5DSR/D810s' sensors but most important to my eyes, is how the resolution/noise is managed and how lenses get on with the sensor. Leica's according to Q/SL testers, is a good compromise. Actually, I don't produce enlargement more than 50cmx75cm. Does 50Mpx really matter? Most of people say yes, but do they print their shots?
People don't like SL? Nevertheless, they should. Because of Leica SL, Sony, Canon, Nikon and others brands should work very hard next years to produce better EVF FF bodies than Leica at a fraction of price. And it's a good news for everybody except Leica. Thank you Leica.
teiki arii wrote:
For people who have Leica-R lenses on tierce SDLR bodies, they know how difficult it is to focus as diaphragm getting smaller! EVF can overcome with opening darkening... That is an excellent reason to prefer EVF to OVF as long as 60 Hz EVF refreshment/frequency is enough to work comfortably.
In very bright light, like sunlight, yes.
But otherwise, an EVF view gets a lot of image noise and loses detail, and the refresh rate drops a lot. In my opinion it's even worse than a dim OVF.
zhangyue wrote:
I do. I am not talking about half press feeling but subtle feeling to hold or fire. I think Nikon has been great on these, D700 is great. D810 is quietest, DF is almost as good. I can secure the moment. A7xyz suck in comparison. M9 is also like a P&S in comparison. and S006 and S2 are no where as good with substantial delay.
No delay. Well not like the S-006. It feels snappy like Canon/Nikon. It's the actual button. Like the physical feel of the smooth button pressing into the camera.
I think it's just because I'm use to the M-P. To me it feels good to press..
Lee Saxon wrote:
In very bright light, like sunlight, yes.
But otherwise, an EVF view gets a lot of image noise and loses detail, and the refresh rate drops a lot. In my opinion it's even worse than a dim OVF.
I noticed the slowdown and lack of sharpness in the Q EVF. BUT only in very very dark situations and it was still noticeably better then the A7 series cameras. And fine for auto and manual work. I'm talking a dark street with street lights that are far apart though. Not typical use. Though maybe that's equal to stopping down. How much do you stop down? F/5.6 shouldn't be an issue in normal to dim light. F/11-22 wouldn't be ideal unless it's bright out to begin with.
Perhaps standard-tele would be better, as It's easier to see what you're focusing on.
If you're talking studio.. Then I'd forget about it. But at that point, you could just adjust aperture once your image is framed.
sebboh wrote:
too bad those don't exist anymore in 35mm format with wysiwyg...
I can't get a handle on manual focusing my Nikon D750 in even bright light. The RF is fine and the S is fine. S OVF is killer. I use to not like it, because I was use to the Contax645 OVF. But now I can't stand looking through the Contax645 OVF. It seems so detached and gritty (maybe it needs to be cleaned).
I've got full-size samples from the SL and the Q, including samples from both of the new SL zooms.
Thanks for the report and for the second photo in particular; the camera no longer looks as massive as it did in some of the other news items. Still way too expensive for me though.
Perhaps Leica can't even produce enough of these fast enough to supply the demand at $7,450 USD. And if they dropped the price to $4,500 the demand would increase substantially, but it wouldn't matter, as they still would not be able to produce them fast enough.
Not saying the demand for the SL is huge. But it is probably big enough where Leica won't be able to cope even at max output. Even at current MSRP.
Keep in mind they're still trying to build Q and S-007 cameras. On top of lenses for all systems. Even if more then half the camera comes from Panasonic like speculated. It's still a process of building and testing the cameras before boxing them up and shipping them out.
SL
S-007
Q
M-P
X (how many ever are still current)
+ lenses..
It would still be nice if they dropped the price. And good for the company and the SL-system in the long run. But they won't. Not for a while anyway
Anyone been to their new facilities? Big? Any cool stats and manufacturing numbers during the tour??
I am going to include some of my observations, impressions and some images taken with the SL yesterday at PhotoPlus in New York City at the Javits Center.
First, I would like to say Wow. The SL is quite a camera in many respects. Comparing the construction of this camera with that of the Sony A7r and the A7rII cameras there are several orders of magnitude difference. The Sony are nice cameras but the SL is just in a different league for construction. The SL I would say is made at least to the level of the M240. Basically the camera body/chassis is made from a block of aluminum. Yes the camera does appear to be fairly large certainly when compared with either Sony or the Leica M240. Yes the M lenses do look small when compared to the size of the camera. The camera has real heft to it and the grip is somewhat deep for my small hands. It does appear to balance fairly well and you are holding and handling a piece of precision equipment when it is in your hands. As I mentioned, yes the camera does appear large when compared to the size of M lenses, but at the same time the size is in keeping with the R lenses and the new AF lenses that are designed to be used with the camera. Only the zoom is going to be available and ship with the camera and the other lenses I believe were either Prototypes or Pre Production.
As I suggested earlier in one of the threads about this camera. I would consider it to be the Swiss Army Knife of Leica Cameras. You can mount basically any Leica interchangeable lens from any of their systems onto the camera with the appropriate adapter. The camera has a Leica T mount and will of course work with the AF lenses that do and will be designed for the camera. T lenses I believe mount directly to the camera. With the proper adapter you can also mount M, R, and S lenses as well. Add that to being able to mount Canon, Nikon, Minolta, Pentax... lenses when using the appropriate adapters made for the Leica T mount.
So, for the Leica user with lenses in many systems, this may be the camera for you and for traveling with just a single body if you like the "look" and character of specific lenses.
I only had a limited opportunity to really handle the camera with the AF lens and other lenses mounted to the camera, but as mentioned the camera has real heft to it and appears to balance fairly well with the lens. Menus did appear to be rather straight forward as the Leica Rep went through them. The EVF is something very very special. I would say that without question, this is the best and fastest responding EVF that I have every seen. The color and fidelity and refresh rate of the EVF were excellent. Now at the show we did not have taxing lighting conditions, but much of the time I almost felt like I was looking through a good OVF possibly approaching that of my R8 which is saying something. When we mounted my 280mm F4 Apo Telyt lens on a tripod and mounted the camera the system operated superbly. In order to mount an R lens onto the camera at this point Leica does not offer a direct adapter and we really do not know what will be incorporated in that adapter. Whether Leica will release an adapter that will provide auto aperture for R lenses will remain to be seen. For now, to mount an R lens onto the camera you need to use a R to M adapter mounted to an M to T adapter. Not necessarily the best way but for now the only way of doing this.
As to the question of the performance of M lenses on the camera being slightly poorer than on an M240, it is too early to really say. My understanding is that the sensor in the camera is a modified or updated version of the sensor used for the T camera which is updated from the sensor for the M240.
The camera really does fire at 11 FPS which faster than I need. AF appears to be fast using the lens that was available. S lenses will also AF with the SL. S lenses do not focus terribly quickly on the S cameras and we will have to wait for more time and testing to see if S lenses will actually focus faster on the SL than on the S cameras.
For those that are fortunate enough to own one of the R 280mm f4 lenses and in particular using this lens on the higher MP this is quite an eye opening optic. I would say that is particularly the case for anyone using the lens on the 36 MP Sony or Nikon or the the 42 MP Sony cameras. On the SL with the 24 MP this lens also shines. The Leica Reps, Jim Lager, my friend who is the author of 8 Leica Books and those at the Leica Booth when I mounted this lens were amazed and impressed. This is a rather infrequently seen and observed lens on cameras since only 2000 were made. I know that the Leica Reps and everyone were extremely happy with the combination. Jim was in total disbelief about what we were seeing when viewing through this combination. From comments from the Leica Reps, I have a particularly smoothly operating and functioning copy of the lens so I feel very fortunate. Below and in the next post are some images taken with the combination of the R280mm f4 Apo Telyt and the SL both SOC except Image Size adjusted and as 100% SOC. No processing was done at all for these files. I do not know the ISO set for the camera but it must have been fairly high. I also do not know the shutter speed set for the camera. The photos I believe were all shot wide open at f4. When we stopped the lens down on the camera I believe that we were still able to focus even when stopped down to f16. The EVF did adjust for the change in aperture by the way but it was not instantaneous and of course auto aperture would have helped. Again in regards to the images, I can not say that all were nailed for focus, but this is and was an impressive performance.
Would I like to own the SL? If I could get over the sticker shock of $7450 for the camera body, could deal with the size, weight, and the fact that the camera only offers 24 rather than 36MP, the answer is yes.
Rich
SOC with Image Size Adjusted with Leica R 280mm f4 Apo Telyt
100% crop of previous image
SOC with Image Size Adjusted with Leica R 280mm f4 Apo Telyt
