p.10 #2 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
navyasw02 wrote:
Unless I did it wrong, the silent shutter on the A7rII I played with wasnt silent like the RX1. It was quiet, but still audible.
Silent shutter is completely silent. Perhaps you only had EFC on ..
p.10 #3 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
I want one. I want one badly-- considering 35mm is the vast majority of my shooting, I want high resolution with quick AF and small size and great DR, and f/2 that's sharp wide open is my ideal lens.
But, like Guy, I just can't justify it for my business. If I were just shooting for myself, I think I'd sell the A7rII and get this, and be done with purchases for the next 5 years (maybe pick up tele and wide adapters).
Unfortunately, I need to be able to mount other focal length lenses, even if for a minority of my final selects on assignments. So the A7rII will stay.
That said, I may have to finally pick up an RX1 as a backup if I can get one around the ~$1k mark. And when the RX1r2 drops below $2K... it's probably going in the bag.
p.10 #4 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
mcbroomf wrote:
Silent shutter is completely silent. Perhaps you only had EFC on ..
The problem with the current Sony silent full electronic shutter in the A7rII is the slow curtain. Unusable in cycling lights or for high shutter speeds when the subject is moving or changing shape rapidly.
p.10 #5 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
freaklikeme wrote:
Or it could be that implementing a electronic variable filter was simplified by the sealed eco-system of the RX. Or maybe they saw how many of us lined up to pop off their installed filters on the 7 and 7r and decided we didn't deserve it. Or maybe the Cybershot team was allowed to keep it unique to their camera because they needed a little differentiation in the market.
Whatever the reason, it doesn't make that impression incorrect. Sony is an iteration-obsessed consumer electronics company, but like all iteration-obsessed consumer electronics companies (which would be all of them), as their products mature, the cycles will get longer. Personally, I don't see the downside to that. Their iteration-obsession has put some progressively more capable cameras in our hands.
That said, I'm guessing Sony expected a little market fatigue on the updated RX, which I can't imagine anyone arguing isn't a substantial upgrade over the original, and that contributed to the "high" initial MSRP. They probably know they aren't going to sell as many this time around....Show more →
It's simply because they know their market is the type that would upgrade at a drop of a hat. Hence A7 vs A7II or A7 then A7r then A7s.. And now the II versions.
Basically every new model has a new "must have feature" that'll cause an upgrade commotion. I see it all the time on the various buy and sell forums I follow.
p.10 #6 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
I have (and have had) a LOT of very nice gear over the years.. including from the current crop.
The RX1R was the best "all around" piece of equipment I have ever had. I'm still in love with it. It's magical.
I could do without the gigantic file sizes, and my current R is perfect for my needs. I like it's files so much I don't feel the need to upgrade. BUT, it's fabulous to know the linage is continuing. If something was to happen to my baby that there will be something new to buy..
This camera may well turn out to be the best image making machine currently made.
Most (not all) of the people complaining about price, never had the previous version.
Once you've own an RX1R, it never seems expensive again.
Delighted about this announcement, and especially the fact that they didn't mess with the lens at all.
j.
p.10 #7 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
snowboarder wrote:
it's not only a "cool" camera, this is the best camera out there and not only for street,
but travel, landscape and everything else. RX1R is my favorite camera ever.
same
p.10 #8 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
navyasw02 wrote:
Unless I did it wrong, the silent shutter on the A7rII I played with wasnt silent like the RX1. It was quiet, but still audible.
I think you may be confusing the EFCS (electronic first shutter) mode, which is quieter but not silent, with the genuine silent (full electronic first and second curtain) mode, which is completely silent
p.10 #9 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
DavidBM wrote:
You do know the A7rII has totally silent shutter mode? The price is a stop of DR (which is usually fine on a sensor with as much DR as this) and possible rolling shutter effects if there is fast motion.
That's usually a tradeoff that matches the Rx1 (and you can have faster shutter speeds). Remember that that stop of DR is only any use at all when you need it, which is rarely. When you don't need it you can't see its benefits.
A leaf shutter like the RX1's doesn't produce distortion of moving objects that a focal plane shutter does (it's the same effect as the "rolling shutter" of an electronic shutter). If I have a seagull flying through the frame in a DSLR, that seagull will be slightly distorted because it took about 1/250s (the shutter sync speed) to get the whole seagull, no matter what the shutter speed, and birds do move a significant amount in that time if they'e close enough. The seagull has moved a lot less in the 1/2000s of the RX1's leaf shutter. It used to be much more noticeable on older cameras with slower shutter sync, and with other subjects such as balls. Back in the 1970s when SLR shutter sync was 1/80s or 1/60s, you could sometimes spot these artefacts in photos published in newspapers and magazines.
Probably not many people know about leaf shutters any more, and many of the people who do have bad memories of them.
There is a thing called "shutter efficiency", which is the proportion of the exposure time the shutter is actually open. With leaf shutters, it was rarely near 100%. This used to drive me mad, because it did affect exposure, and I was expecting similar trouble with the RX1. But either the shutter is very efficient, or Sony are correcting for it electronically very well, because it doesn't misexpose the way my old TLR did.
It's a shame Sony didn't go with leaf shutters for their interchangeable lens mirrorless system. But they didn't, and electronic shutters are still nowhere near 1/2000s sync speed, so the RX1 (and RX10) still have that advantage over the A7* cameras.
p.10 #10 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
melcat wrote:
A leaf shutter like the RX1's doesn't produce distortion of moving objects that a focal plane shutter does (it's the same effect as the "rolling shutter" of an electronic shutter). If I have a seagull flying through the frame in a DSLR, that seagull will be slightly distorted because it took about 1/250s (the shutter sync speed) to get the whole seagull, no matter what the shutter speed, and birds do move a significant amount in that time if they'e close enough. The seagull has moved a lot less in the 1/2000s of the RX1's leaf shutter. It used to be much more noticeable on older cameras with slower shutter sync, and with other subjects such as balls. Back in the 1970s when SLR shutter sync was 1/80s or 1/60s, you could sometimes spot these artefacts in photos published in newspapers and magazines.
Probably not many people know about leaf shutters any more, and many of the people who do have bad memories of them.
There is a thing called "shutter efficiency", which is the proportion of the exposure time the shutter is actually open. With leaf shutters, it was rarely near 100%. This used to drive me mad, because it did affect exposure, and I was expecting similar trouble with the RX1. But either the shutter is very efficient, or Sony are correcting for it electronically very well, because it doesn't misexpose the way my old TLR did.
It's a shame Sony didn't go with leaf shutters for their interchangeable lens mirrorless system. But they didn't, and electronic shutters are still nowhere near 1/2000s sync speed, so the RX1 (and RX10) still have that advantage over the A7* cameras....Show more →
All true; but leaf shutters aren't without their costs: you rarely get as high a max shutter speed. And the rolling shutter distortion will get less bad as e-shutters improve.
Another reason for being happy that there are focal plane and electronic shutters in the A7 series is that it decreases the cost of lenses, and also allows us to play with legacy lenses and makes it simpler for third parties.
Of course I can imagine someone wanting a leaf shutter lens just for flash sync purposes, and there's nothing to stop Sony making one...
p.10 #13 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
Arka wrote:
Why so much complaining about the price? Wasn't the original RX-1 in the $3000 neighborhood? This boasts a lens of comparable quality, a much higher resolution sensor, AF that actually works, and a built-in EVF. Sounds like a great camera to me. I had an RX-1that I sold a few months ago because the AF was simply awful. If the RXII's AF is even as good as the Leica Q's, this camera seems quite reasonably priced to me.
The original was $2,798 at launch I believe, so the cost of this new one is the old one plus the EVF.
But a lot of us didn't buy the camera new. I would venture to say that a lot of us bought it as the second owner or even third. I'm pretty sure mills art bought, sold, and bought the RX1 a few times over, I believe at around $1,600. I bought mine 2nd hand for $1,700, far off the new price of $2,798. I couldn't justify paying $2,800 for it, at $1,700 it was easier to buy.
This one checks off a lot of boxes for me, more res, tilt screen. Also having two kids now I find myself shooting from the hip more with the tilt screen. Before I had a tilt screen and using DSLRs I would shoot 99% through the finder and 1% through the screen, mainly because of the clunky way to use dslr live view. When I bought my first mirrorless before kids it became 80/20. Now that I have kids and want to keep an eye on them and their surroundings, I'm almost 60/40. Shooting with the rear screen on the a7rII is frustrating at times because of the sensitive eye sensor always tripping the screen off. With this having a collapsible finder, shooting with the hip would appear to be much less frustrating.
I'm interested but not until it hit sub $2,000 price on the used market, so maybe in 12-18 months.
p.10 #14 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
sootyvrs wrote:
For those unaware of this, max 1/4000th was only available stopped down with the RX1(R) mark1
That's a typical leaf shutter limitation. The shutter is an iris (not usually the same one as the aperture iris) so for it to fully open it only needs to open to the diameter of the aperture, which is of course smaller for higher f number. Hence, when it moves at the same speed, it can open and close in a shorter time at a higher f stop.
Hence also the horrors of shutter efficiency varying by f-stop, which Sony appear to have avoided or worked around in this camera.
There's some amusing whinging going on at other sites by people who appear to think Sony put in this limitation just for chuckles. Not that 1/2000s is terrible in itself anyway. I have an ND filter for my RX-1.
p.10 #16 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
DavidBM wrote:
All true; but leaf shutters aren't without their costs: you rarely get as high a max shutter speed. And the rolling shutter distortion will get less bad as e-shutters improve.
Another reason for being happy that there are focal plane and electronic shutters in the A7 series is that it decreases the cost of lenses, and also allows us to play with legacy lenses and makes it simpler for third parties.
Of course I can imagine someone wanting a leaf shutter lens just for flash sync purposes, and there's nothing to stop Sony making one...
RS will be completely eliminated when a global shutter is implemented. They're being used in video cameras, but you lose a stop of DR. We're probably a generation away from that being solved.
p.10 #18 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
Bought my RX1 when it first came out and still love it and use it all the time. Glad they upgraded the sensor too but I think I am still good with the old one and don't need the extra MPs. I might try one out in a Sony store to see if I really need to upgrade.
joshinthecity wrote:
I have (and have had) a LOT of very nice gear over the years.. including from the current crop.
The RX1R was the best "all around" piece of equipment I have ever had. I'm still in love with it. It's magical.
I could do without the gigantic file sizes, and my current R is perfect for my needs. I like it's files so much I don't feel the need to upgrade. BUT, it's fabulous to know the linage is continuing. If something was to happen to my baby that there will be something new to buy..
This camera may well turn out to be the best image making machine currently made.
Most (not all) of the people complaining about price, never had the previous version.
Once you've own an RX1R, it never seems expensive again.
Delighted about this announcement, and especially the fact that they didn't mess with the lens at all.
j. ...Show more →
p.10 #19 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
This would be my ultimate travel camera.....if it had weather proofing.
So for over $3000 you get no dust or weather sealing - I dont understand or get it - whats wrong with these engineers or designers? They make a great tool but leave a very crucial item out all the time. What does it cost to add weather sealing to a camera? $5? Looking up on Google there are so many people that have dust on the RX1 sensor and then have to send in the camera for repairs. I cant understand the logic behind the insanity . I guess Sony is trying to promote Ziploc bags. . Sorry for the rant.
p.10 #20 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF
Lee Saxon wrote:
Holding it for this camera definitely feeds into the impression of Sony as an iteration-obsessed consumer electronics company.
We haven't had enough iterations of either full frame fixed lens or full frame mirrorless to draw any conclusions. The first A7 bodies were all replaced relatively quickly, but with fairly substantial upgrades, it would be very difficult to repeat this feat next year. I think Sony were just desperate to strike while the iron was hot.
Realistically what could Sony offer in an updated A7RIII to tempt people into upgrading? Faster AF... fix a few software quirks, dual card slots, maybe a better viewfinder. That wouldn't be enough for me, whereas the mark II fixed some more glaring problems with the original A7R.
I fear people holding out for the III versions which they assume are coming next year are going to be disappointed. I think after the initial trial balloon of the first A7/R/S Sony will fall into a more standard release schedule.
Anyone who thinks Sony releases bodies too frequently should talk to an A-mount user
. 
Sorry for the rant. 