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Archive 2015 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF

  
 
Tariq Gibran
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p.40 #1 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF


For any serious user, it's important to know the capabilities and limits (and faults) of ones equipment before one uses it for anything serious. There is also the issue of learning of any issue that might impact ones work within a product return period. While it is easy to get caught up in over testing and being perhaps too critical of minor inconsistencies, you still need to know your equipment.


Dec 06, 2015 at 06:33 PM
millsart
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p.40 #2 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF


Jeff Kott wrote:
Millsart,

Keep in mind that not only are you a very experienced photographer - you're a pro - and obviously very confident that you can judge a lens just by looking at photos that you've taken with it.

Unfortunately, new lenses that are not properly centered are out there and photographers who are not as experienced as you may want to do an objective test to see if their new lens is properly centered.

My issue is that between work and my family obligations with a young toddler, I don't have as much time to take photos as I
...Show more


That really is my point though, one need not be a pro, or know what things like "decentering" even means to simply take pictures and look at them.

Its when people start trying to "test", doing thing like shooting a brick wall without the proper means to ensure they are squared to it, that they start finding issues that 1) may not really exist and 2) wouldn't show up in actual shooting.

Take the Fuji X100 camera for example. Those of us who have owned a few of them, are regulars on forums et al., know that the lens is pretty soft at minimum focal distance wide open. Just the way its designed, and its not a macro after all.

What happened a ton though was people wanted to "test" their lens for sharpness, so they'd tape a newspaper to the wall, stick the camera in front of it, at very close distance, and then see soft results and think they got a "bad" copy.

I'm all for trying gear out thoroughly before using it for assignment, or before return periods are over, but believe the "test" should be similar to real world usage, not attempted lab setups.

All one need to is walk around the neighborhood a bit, take a bunch of photos. Does everything seem out of focus ? Does one side seem out of focus ? Is most of the frame fine but the corners are a little softer than the middle when your shooting wide open ?

Going back to the RX1 example, its a camera that I think we can all agree produces exceptional results. Almost everyone who owns one seems to love its overall image quality and rendering (maybe not battery life and AF lol). But, as I mentioned, we could make our RX1 pretty bad if we did a DPR style "test".

One could get the camera, set it up for a test inside, see results like that and end up returning it, before even getting to shoot any real subjects and see that beautiful rendering it produces.

Problems make themselves quite apparent without needing to work hard to find them IMO



Dec 06, 2015 at 07:27 PM
Jeff Kott
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p.40 #3 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF


Millsart, I don't think we're in disagreement, because we're not talking about the same thing. All I'm talking about is one or two simple tests to see only if the lens is well centered.


Dec 06, 2015 at 07:44 PM
Racethesunset
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p.40 #4 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF


millsart wrote:
If one simply wants to get great gas mileage at highway speeds, why buy a corvette though ?

If 24meg RAW files meet your needs (and frankly, I think they do most peoples, because lets face it, just a year or two ago we were falling all over ourselves for 24meg) then why not spend a whole lot less and get the original RX1 ?

Same with threads I see on the A7rII and how people want less resolution options because they say they have no need for more megapixels....? Well why not get a A7s II and have 12 megs of
...Show more

Yes, I think the gains past 12mp (FF megapixels - not crop) are tough to justify unless you include them as part of your "kit", e.g., one less lens due to resolution.

The S II that I've been playing with for the past two months, and previously the RX1, have showed me that resolution is more or less a preference for my uses, but not a determinate of quality. Invariably RAW does help a lot, though, so perhaps it's that I'd like a strong torque curve for dynamic range, and less horse power. A turbo diesel, per say, something efficient and capable at the same time. The one thing that I do miss from the RX1R II over the RX1, and the R II over the S II, is phase detection. My keeper rate has fallen since leaving the A5100 and m43 depth defocusing autofocus - but that's another thread. Anyways, good observational skills



Dec 07, 2015 at 02:28 PM
unravel
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p.40 #5 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF


Hey Rx1m2 owners, do you find AF-C to be better than AF-S or DMF for some reason? Like it feels like it locks on more surely / quicker. AF-S seems to go through whole range briefly before focusing, while AF-C goes instantly to the target. UGH im annoyed because i live by focus + recompose...


Dec 07, 2015 at 04:36 PM
genji
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p.40 #6 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF


Hallelujah! I was finally able to place an order for an RX1R II.

There's an excellent brick wall around the corner from my house so I just need to buy a newspaper and I'll have everything I need in order to start testing as soon as the camera arrives.



Dec 07, 2015 at 06:23 PM
GMPhotography
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p.40 #7 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF


Okay where are you guys finding them. I'm robbing Wells Fargo tomorrow down the street , you can call the cops now I'll meet them there at 11.

I'm seriously joking but this damn itch is not going away anytime soon.



Dec 07, 2015 at 06:29 PM
millsart
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p.40 #8 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF


unravel wrote:
Hey Rx1m2 owners, do you find AF-C to be better than AF-S or DMF for some reason? Like it feels like it locks on more surely / quicker. AF-S seems to go through whole range briefly before focusing, while AF-C goes instantly to the target. UGH im annoyed because i live by focus + recompose...


That is just it, you don't know its locking onto the subject, or could continue to refine focus, just like with a DSLR. Usually it works well, but your not getting a confirmation beep like with AF-S so you just have to judge if it looks in focus or not. Of course just because you get the green box and/or beep in AF-S doesn't mean its going to actually in focus either.

Decouple your AF from the shutter button, to AEL, and then you can focus and recompose with AF-C



Dec 07, 2015 at 07:02 PM
unravel
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p.40 #9 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF


millsart wrote:
That is just it, you don't know its locking onto the subject, or could continue to refine focus, just like with a DSLR. Usually it works well, but your not getting a confirmation beep like with AF-S so you just have to judge if it looks in focus or not. Of course just because you get the green box and/or beep in AF-S doesn't mean its going to actually in focus either.

Decouple your AF from the shutter button, to AEL, and then you can focus and recompose with AF-C


yep gonna do that, im ok with me not knowing 100% about focus cause when doing street its f8-16 anyway, but when the whole image JARS back and forth from it going through whole focus range while in AF-S its quite just disruptive to shooting.

this being said, more i use the camera, more im lovin it ))))



Dec 07, 2015 at 07:52 PM
Jeff Kott
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p.40 #10 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF


unravel wrote:
What's a good way to check for decentered lens or just a bad copy?


Unravel, I don't know if you saw it, but Fred described another interesting way to check for a decentered lens by shooting the night sky in another thread. It's towards the bottom of this page:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1401593/0





Dec 07, 2015 at 11:46 PM
TMaG82
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p.40 #11 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF


GMPhotography wrote:
Okay where are you guys finding them. I'm robbing Wells Fargo tomorrow down the street , you can call the cops now I'll meet them there at 11.

I'm seriously joking but this damn itch is not going away anytime soon.


I first went with another retailer but due to an inventory snafu, they never got them in but charged my card. After apologizing to me but not being able to reassure me when it would come in, I asked them to cancel and refund my card. I didn't feel happy about having a $3,309 charge sit on my card without having any concrete date on when they would get them in.

I went back to B&H, to where I should've ordered from in the first place. Available date shows 12/8 about a week ago, same as it did last night, and ordered. At least I know when I order from B&H, they won't charge me until the item is in the warehouse, on the way out. And I get my stuff from B&H even faster than Amazon. And lately Amazon has been slipping me some obviously returned items that are used and trying to pass them off as new. But that's another story which I won't discuss here since it's a hotly debated topic.



Dec 07, 2015 at 11:56 PM
unravel
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p.40 #12 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF


Jeff Kott wrote:
Unravel, I don't know if you saw it, but Fred described another interesting way to check for a decentered lens by shooting the night sky in another thread. It's towards the bottom of this page:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1401593/0



Thank you! I'm gonna try that, appreciate it Jeff



Dec 08, 2015 at 08:55 AM
dgdg
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p.40 #13 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF


unravel wrote:
What's a good way to check for decentered lens or just a bad copy?

Unravel, I don't know if you saw it, but Fred described another interesting way to check for a decentered lens by shooting the night sky in another thread. It's towards the bottom of this page:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1401593/0



Astro is much less forgiving of decentered lenses but makes this a great way to test any lens.
This is how I test my astro lenses when I first buy them.
I just focus on a left sided star, then center, then right. Put them up against each other in PS. Very simple test, if you have clear skies.

David




Dec 08, 2015 at 10:18 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.40 #14 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF


dgdg wrote:
Astro is much less forgiving of decentered lenses but makes this a great way to test any lens.
This is how I test my astro lenses when I first buy them.
I just focus on a left sided star, then center, then right. Put them up against each other in PS. Very simple test, if you have clear skies.

David


David,
It's convenient to test for decentering and coma at the same time!
A well-centered lens is a must for astrophotography as we usually shoot wide open and need all corners sharp.

When I test it with the stars, I tend to focus on right, left, up and down areas. Sometimes a lens is perfectly aligned left to right but it's noticeably decentered up and down.



Dec 08, 2015 at 11:58 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.40 #15 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF


millsart wrote:
That really is my point though, one need not be a pro, or know what things like "decentering" even means to simply take pictures and look at them.

Its when people start trying to "test", doing thing like shooting a brick wall without the proper means to ensure they are squared to it, that they start finding issues that 1) may not really exist and 2) wouldn't show up in actual shooting.

Take the Fuji X100 camera for example. Those of us who have owned a few of them, are regulars on forums et al., know that the lens is pretty
...Show more

IMO, we all should 'proper' test out lenses upon purchase. A 20-minute test will tell you everything you need to know about your copy and most importantly get you to learn about the qualities and imperfections of a lens.

When testing for coma fore example, you can also find out if your copy is well-centered. Take a few high contrast shots close and long range throughout the aperture range and pay attention to CA, LoCA, focus shift, field curvature, bokeh, astigmatism and resolution from center to corners. Why rely on the 'experts'?
There are many subjective variables like color, rendering and bokeh and when doing the tests ourselves we will learn more about our gear and decide whether or not what we see is acceptable to our photography needs.



Dec 08, 2015 at 12:59 PM
millsart
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p.40 #16 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF


Fred Miranda wrote:
Take a few high contrast shots close and long range throughout the aperture range and pay attention to CA, LoCA, focus shift, field curvature, bokeh, astigmatism and resolution from center to corners. Why rely on the 'experts'?



Are you talking about the average FM regular or everyone that buys a camera just to enjoy taking photos ?

I spent a good half my career not having a clue what things like LoCA, astigmastism, field curvature etc even was and I somehow produced plenty of great images.

It was really only when I got in rangefinders and bought a M8.2 and started paying for Sean Reid's site, obsessively going out and shooting walls for 45 minutes etc that suddenly all that stuff mattered.

Is ignorance bliss ? Not necessarily, but I also think the internet has created information overload and perhaps taken a lot of enjoyment out of the hobby. Paralysis through over analysis if you will.

I remember back in the day saving up and getting a lens like the Nikon 35/1.4 AI-s. Burnt through plenty of rolls of film shooting my new lens, but never once did I ever try to test, nor worry about, astigmastism, LoCa etc. I was simply happy with my purchase.

Now days I feel like we almost can't be happy with what we buy, until we first test it, compare it to everything else, and ultimately find all the reasons we shouldn't be happy with it.

Its not really just limited to cameras either. I used to buy a bicycle based on what color it is. Now I feel I have to record my power meter output and what Di2 gear I'm using at the time, on a GPS unit that alone cost more than most bikes I started out riding, all just so I can have the optimum cassette installed so make sure I've got efficient gear ratio's for a pleasure ride (cycling; my hobby away from photography lol)

Now don't nobody get me wrong, no one forces me to own 11 different 50mm lenses, no one forces me to have taken more shots for "test" purposes with them that I've probably taken of my family etc. No one forces me to spend all the free time I'm not shooting talking with everyone here about shooting. This is a side of the field I just naturally gravitate towards and must somewhat enjoy.

Still though.... makes me wonder if maybe I was actually happier back when I was that kid who saved up for an old Nikon lenses and simply went out and shot pictures with it.



Dec 08, 2015 at 08:02 PM
johnvanr
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p.40 #17 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF


millsart wrote:
Are you talking about the average FM regular or everyone that buys a camera just to enjoy taking photos ?

I spent a good half my career not having a clue what things like LoCA, astigmastism, field curvature etc even was and I somehow produced plenty of great images.

It was really only when I got in rangefinders and bought a M8.2 and started paying for Sean Reid's site, obsessively going out and shooting walls for 45 minutes etc that suddenly all that stuff mattered.

Is ignorance bliss ? Not necessarily, but I also think the internet has created information overload and
...Show more

Agreed. I always chuckle when people on the forums complain about diffraction above f/11 and then a master like Art Wolfe shows a gorgeous shot taken at f/16...



Dec 08, 2015 at 08:05 PM
Jeff Kott
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p.40 #18 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF


Millsart, I think you should just do what you're comfortable with and not get bent out of shape if others want to do something different.

If someone on this forum asks how to test for something and I think I can answer the question, I'm going to try and help. Personally, I'm not going to try and talk them out of doing the test they want to do or tell them that they're being obsessive. if I can't help them, I just don't respond.

There are lots and lots of people out there who don't test their lenses. I don't think it should be surprising to you that there are a higher percentage of people who want to test theirs on a gear forum.

Live and let live, bro.

Edited on Dec 08, 2015 at 08:49 PM · View previous versions



Dec 08, 2015 at 08:14 PM
GMPhotography
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p.40 #19 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF


When I test I look for a few things post the results and than if everything looks good than I'm pretty happy but I also test for a purpose to see what a lens can do or a sensor but I try not to get to crazy over it. My first 35 1.4 I was luke warm on my issue but reality was I may never see it. Asymmetry that is. In hindsight I should have just kept it. Now I'm obsessed over it with this lens and there is a used one and I can save 300 dollars but now after my experience I'll just buy new it seems. Kind of pissing me off to be honest. But I do believe in making sure what you buy matches your expectations . That's just doing the smart thing especially before a return period .

Bottom line is you want to be happy with your gear when you head out to go create art. Otherwise this stuff clouds your thoughts. Or worse gets under your skin.

Remember this is supposed to be fun



Dec 08, 2015 at 08:49 PM
snapsy
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p.40 #20 · Announced: RX1R II with 42MP sensor and EVF


millsart wrote:
Are you talking about the average FM regular or everyone that buys a camera just to enjoy taking photos ?

I spent a good half my career not having a clue what things like LoCA, astigmastism, field curvature etc even was and I somehow produced plenty of great images.

It was really only when I got in rangefinders and bought a M8.2 and started paying for Sean Reid's site, obsessively going out and shooting walls for 45 minutes etc that suddenly all that stuff mattered.

Is ignorance bliss ? Not necessarily, but I also think the internet has created information overload and
...Show more

Even if the original owner himself doesn't care about copy-specific issues he may still want to consider and test for them with concern for resale value, assuming there's any chance he'll let the lens go in the future.



Dec 08, 2015 at 08:59 PM
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