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Archive 2015 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern

  
 
phototiimo
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p.8 #1 · p.8 #1 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern




dclark wrote:
I agree that ETTR should be practiced to get the best possible SNR even if it is not possible to get to base ISO, but if base ISO cannot be achieved due to the limitations on light and other shooting requirements (min shutter speed and f/#) then the strategy to get the best SNR is changed. To get the best possible SNR we want as many photoelectrons as possible. That means as much light on the sensor as possible without exceeding the photoelectron capacity of any pixels (i.e. any pixels for which we can't accept blown highlights). ETTR is the
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Thank you, this answers many of my questions. So there is marginal improvement, but not much. I'm guessing less than 0.3 stops? Is it worth it to get closer to the clipping point still in order to avoid color shifts? Or should I just stick to ISO 640?



Aug 11, 2018 at 02:47 PM
dclark
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p.8 #2 · p.8 #2 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern


phototiimo wrote:
Thank you, this answers many of my questions. So there is marginal improvement, but not much. I'm guessing less than 0.3 stops? Is it worth it to get closer to the clipping point still in order to avoid color shifts? Or should I just stick to ISO 640?


The only time I have noticed color shifts is if I push too far and clip one of the colors. I am pretty cautious and keep the ISO low enough to be sure I don't clip. You may be referring to color shifts when pulling up shadows. If so, what you suggest may help color even though the the noise is about the same. Interesting idea. I need to experiment with that.

Dave



Aug 11, 2018 at 03:55 PM
phototiimo
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p.8 #3 · p.8 #3 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern




dclark wrote:
The only time I have noticed color shifts is if I push too far and clip one of the colors. I am pretty cautious and keep the ISO low enough to be sure I don't clip. You may be referring to color shifts when pulling up shadows. If so, what you suggest may help color even though the the noise is about the same. Interesting idea. I need to experiment with that.

Dave


I was thinking both in terms of pulling down highlights and bringing up shadows. Let us know what you find! I'd be very interested to hear the results.



Aug 12, 2018 at 02:12 AM
mfenske
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p.8 #4 · p.8 #4 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern


Dumb question- do I need to set the exposure and then add the compensation for every bracket or can I just leave the comp wheel set to +2 and expose so that the zebras just disappear?


Sep 20, 2019 at 10:57 AM
cgarcia
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p.8 #5 · p.8 #5 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern


mfenske wrote:
Dumb question- do I need to set the exposure and then add the compensation for every bracket or can I just leave the comp wheel set to +2 and expose so that the zebras just disappear?


Actually you don't need to add exposure compensation. Just set a custom level "lower limit" 107+ or 108+ (instead of 100+) and the zebras will exactly follow the RAW exposure. This if using the default camera settings, if you use picture profiles the required limit changes. Note that zebras only show the green channel.



Sep 20, 2019 at 04:11 PM
mfenske
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p.8 #6 · p.8 #6 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern


cgarcia wrote:
Actually you don't need to add exposure compensation. Just set a custom level "lower limit" 107+ or 108+ (instead of 100+) and the zebras will exactly follow the RAW exposure. This if using the default camera settings, if you use picture profiles the required limit changes. Note that zebras only show the green channel.


Cool! I'll give this a go with the bracketing tonight. Thanks!



Sep 20, 2019 at 05:30 PM
AndrewNYC
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p.8 #7 · p.8 #7 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern


When this says "then exposure +2EV" i that simply two full stops using the exposure adjustment dial, as an example?


Dec 20, 2019 at 11:39 AM
saxguy
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p.8 #8 · p.8 #8 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern


Fred, have you compared this technique to just using Highlight Metering and adding +2 EV?


Dec 20, 2019 at 11:47 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.8 #9 · p.8 #9 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern


saxguy wrote:
Fred, have you compared this technique to just using Highlight Metering and adding +2 EV?


I have not played with this on the A7R IV yet but I think that using Zebra is still more accurate. As soon as you see any 'blinking' is fine adding +2EV but when using Highlight Metering sometimes +2 is too much. With the latter, I would go +1.3EV when shooting a high contrast scenes to be safe. Will update the thread when I test this further.



Dec 20, 2019 at 03:56 PM
DavidBM
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p.8 #10 · p.8 #10 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern


Fred Miranda wrote:
I have not played with this on the A7R IV yet but I think that using Zebra is still more accurate. As soon as you see any 'blinking' is fine adding +2EV but when using Highlight Metering sometimes +2 is too much. With the latter, I would go +1.3EV when shooting a high contrast scenes to be safe. Will update the thread when I test this further.


Fred did you notice that you van set zebras to any custom level, like 170%, on the r4 so you can find a setting that really is equivalent to RAW overexposure...



Dec 20, 2019 at 08:08 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.8 #11 · p.8 #11 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern


DavidBM wrote:
Fred did you notice that you van set zebras to any custom level, like 170%, on the r4 so you can find a setting that really is equivalent to RAW overexposure...


Thanks! I will try it out.



Dec 20, 2019 at 09:35 PM
DaveFP
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p.8 #12 · p.8 #12 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern


I'm using 107+ to indicate raw clipping. Is that still considered valid?


Dec 20, 2019 at 09:46 PM
DavidBM
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p.8 #13 · p.8 #13 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern


DaveFP wrote:
I'm using 107+ to indicate raw clipping. Is that still considered valid?


I think the best bet is to try a bunch of settings, examine them in a RAW histogram program, and see what level corresponds to raw clipping...



Dec 20, 2019 at 09:49 PM
DaveFP
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p.8 #14 · p.8 #14 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern


DavidBM wrote:
I think the best bet is to try a bunch of settings, examine them in a RAW histogram program, and see what level corresponds to raw clipping...


My suspicion is that there is a little more room in most cases.

Wondering what everyone else has found.




Dec 20, 2019 at 10:27 PM
Eruditass
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p.8 #15 · p.8 #15 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern


cgarcia wrote:
Actually you don't need to add exposure compensation. Just set a custom level "lower limit" 107+ or 108+ (instead of 100+) and the zebras will exactly follow the RAW exposure. This if using the default camera settings, if you use picture profiles the required limit changes. Note that zebras only show the green channel.


109+ still shows zebras to early for me with RAw, including green channel. Adding negative contrast affects when the zebras show, but even -3 is too early. It's likely possible with PP but I don't want to grade my videos.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1532253/0#15067868

As an aside, highlight priority would be a lot better if the viewfinder (and zebras) didn't stop updating above +3EV



Dec 20, 2019 at 10:43 PM
raminolta
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p.8 #16 · p.8 #16 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern


nobody23 wrote:
@Fred@
With the 3rd Gen of Sony cameras we got 'Highlight' metering.
Renders your post #1 obsolete or what do you think?


I did a quick comparison at home and the highlight metering mode gives a far different exposure suggestion than what F M is suggesting. For example, all at f2.8, the camera's multi-metering mode suggests a shutter speed of 1/15s. The highlight metering mode suggests 1/25s. In both these cases, in the built-in camera histogram, the light distribution is about one full quarter away from the right wall!!! So I try FM method of +2ec after a 100 Zebra setting and the shutter speed is 1/4s and the built-in camera histogram approaches the right wall but doesn't quite reach it.



Can we trust the in-camera histogram? I am planning to do this comparison outside on a scenery and then, bring the actual photos under examination on the computer.





Dec 24, 2019 at 06:16 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.8 #17 · p.8 #17 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern


raminolta wrote:
I did a quick comparison at home and the highlight metering mode gives a far different exposure suggestion than what F M is suggesting. For example, all at f2.8, the camera's multi-metering mode suggests a shutter speed of 1/15s. The highlight metering mode suggests 1/25s. In both these cases, in the built-in camera histogram, the light distribution is about one full quarter away from the right wall!!! So I try FM method of +2ec after a 100 Zebra setting and the shutter speed is 1/4s and the built-in camera histogram approaches the right wall but doesn't quite reach it.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49270493463_1e67638f4d_o.jpg

Can we
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In your example above. If one would add 2EV stops to the highlight metering reading (1/25s), the camera would be 1/6s.



Dec 24, 2019 at 06:51 PM
saxguy
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p.8 #18 · p.8 #18 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern


I have a very basic and perhaps naive question. When using zebras, I assume I'm going to disregard things that would normally show overexposure even when underexposing most of the image (i.e. reflections as points of light on curved polished objects, very bright pinpoint lights, etc.) when getting my initial baseline? In other words, get to the point where other than these areas, zebras just disappear - and then add back in +2 EV?


Dec 24, 2019 at 06:56 PM
raminolta
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p.8 #19 · p.8 #19 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern


Fred Miranda wrote:
In your example above. If one would add 2EV stops to the highlight metering reading (1/25s), the camera would be 1/6s.


I see you mean even when using the highlight metering mode, I would need to overcompensate by two stops. I didn't know. When I tried 'highlight metering mode' and noticed it underexposes, I just gave up on it and switched back to multi-metering mode. If we can universally over-expose by two stops, doesn't that mean Sony deliberately set up their metering modes to underexpose? If the answer is yes, why do they do that?



Dec 24, 2019 at 10:09 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.8 #20 · p.8 #20 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern


raminolta wrote:
I see you mean even when using the highlight metering mode, I would need to overcompensate by two stops. I didn't know. When I tried 'highlight metering mode' and noticed it underexposes, I just gave up on it and switched back to multi-metering mode. If we can universally over-expose by two stops, doesn't that mean Sony deliberately set up their metering modes to underexpose? If the answer is yes, why do they do that?


Whenever possible, I still use zebras instead of highlight metering. The former has been more reliable to me when shooting landscapes and even under contrast lighting.

For general photography, adding 2EV to the highlight metering exposure may cause a slight highlight data loss under high contrast lighting so perhaps compensating 1 1/3 stop may be a safer bet.



Dec 24, 2019 at 11:48 PM
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