p.3 #1 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern
walts.photo wrote:
Ah, I got it now! The RAW file has an extra 2EV latitude at high end. Very useful to know.
If you bracket or use any continious mode remember that you loose some data though. Sometimes a 14-bit (or 13-bit) file that has been shot ETTR can contain all the data needed.
People often argue that if bracketing it doesn't matter if one loose a bit but that is only true if one don't decide to only use 1 of the images in a series of brackets. Such decisions isn't always that easy to make while being out shooting.
p.3 #3 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern
I guess this is not available on A7 and only with new series cameras? Or is it the new firmware?
Fred Miranda wrote:
Update:
When doing the ETTR technique for bracket shots (-2, 0, +2), we should add +4EV to the exposure where we don't see any zebras stripes. (As described on the first post).
However, with the new 'Uncompressed' RAW option, we are no longer able to bracket in silent mode. It was desired to use silent mode because the bracket sequent would be faster, silent and with absolutely zero vibration. There was a loss of precision (14 to 12 bits) but bracketing would more than make up for it.
Now with uncompressed, bracketing can only be done in "e-Front Curtain Shutter" mode (which most have as default). It's actually not a bad thing as the resulting images will have 14-bits precision and will be uncompressed. If you change the setting to "Compressed" RAW, you will be able to bracket in silent mode though.
All the best,
Fred...Show more →
p.3 #4 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern
Fred Miranda wrote:
For those looking for an easy way to expose to the right (ETTR) and improve S/N ratio and with that, cleaner shadows, I have found a very easy way using your A7RII zebra function. It probably works similarly with the A7R and other models but the settings presented here are for the A7RII only.
In the past I have used the "blinkies" in playback mode or live histogram to determine when highlights get clipped but with zebras it's way easier to preview and get more consistent results.
By trial and error I have determined the amount of highlight latitude between the RAW and JPEG (Which zebras are probably based on), and can calculate a safe exposure setting based on zebras to get the most S/N ratio without sacrificing any highlight detail.
How to do it:
- Set Zebra to "100+" to display any overexposure. (similar to highlight "blinkies" alert)
- Set Metering Mode to: Multi.
- Shoot in RAW mode.
- Creative Style set to standard with default settings
Expose until you get no Zebra strip pattern on the highlights areas. Then add "2EV" to get your ETTR exposure.
That's it!!!
2.3EV is the max but I found that 2EV is safe preserving 100% of highlights.
Yes, an additional 2EV (after no zebra stripes) is a safe setting and you have successfully exposure your image to the right. (ETTR)
When bringing your RAW image to LR or CaptureOne, reduce the exposure back to normal or just recover the highlights if you prefer.
PS: Sometimes, to get no zebra pattern in the highlights areas you may need to actually underexpose your shot. That is perfectly normal as with ETTR we are exposing to the right of the histogram as much as the scene allows.
___________
How about bracketing when the scene exceeds the camera DR?
I would recommend bracketing mode: (-2, 0, +2) for most scenes. You can shoot at continuous bracketing and silent shutter as the drop in resolution precision won't matter as we are increasing DR and S/N ratio in a very big way.
Expose until you get no Zebra strip pattern on the highlights areas.
Change the exposure by Adding +4EV to the scene.
The camera will reduce 2EV for the first bracket exposure ("-2" setting) which is actually our ETTR setting.
So, the camera bracketing script will run the following settings automatically:
-2 (no zebra + 2EV) ** That is our ETTR setting which saves all highlight data
0 (no zebra + 4EV) That is our initial exposure with no zebra + 4EV as described above.
+2 (no zebra + 6EV) Extra 2EV for the deepest shadows.
Tip: When shooting in manual mode, set your camera Exposure Step to "0.5EV" instead of "0.3EV". It's just easier to turn 2 vs 3 notches to the left on the shutter speed dial for every full EV.
For example, if you need to add +4EV, you would need to turn 8 notches to the left on the shutter speed dial. (instead of 12)
In aperture mode, you can either use the top dial or the exposure compensation slider (Add EV compensation to the functions button)
I hope many of you find this helpful.
All the best,
Fred...Show more →
Fred, what white balance setting are you using, which of course affects jpeg rendering and hence the zebra warnings. Thanks for the info!
p.3 #5 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern
Fred - is it possible to know your process after getting these into Lightroom? I often find the ETTR this way is slightly overexposed (default settings LR)
Fred Miranda wrote:
For those looking for an easy way to expose to the right (ETTR) and improve S/N ratio and with that, cleaner shadows, I have found a very easy way using your A7RII zebra function. It probably works similarly with the A7R and other models but the settings presented here are for the A7RII only.
In the past I have used the "blinkies" in playback mode or live histogram to determine when highlights get clipped but with zebras it's way easier to preview and get more consistent results.
By trial and error I have determined the amount of highlight latitude between the RAW and JPEG (Which zebras are probably based on), and can calculate a safe exposure setting based on zebras to get the most S/N ratio without sacrificing any highlight detail.
How to do it:
- Set Zebra to "100+" to display any overexposure. (similar to highlight "blinkies" alert)
- Set Metering Mode to: Multi.
- Shoot in RAW mode.
- Creative Style set to standard with default settings
Expose until you get no Zebra strip pattern on the highlights areas. Then add "2EV" to get your ETTR exposure.
That's it!!!
2.3EV is the max but I found that 2EV is safe preserving 100% of highlights.
Yes, an additional 2EV (after no zebra stripes) is a safe setting and you have successfully exposure your image to the right. (ETTR)
When bringing your RAW image to LR or CaptureOne, reduce the exposure back to normal or just recover the highlights if you prefer.
PS: Sometimes, to get no zebra pattern in the highlights areas you may need to actually underexpose your shot. That is perfectly normal as with ETTR we are exposing to the right of the histogram as much as the scene allows.
___________
How about bracketing when the scene exceeds the camera DR?
I would recommend bracketing mode: (-2, 0, +2) for most scenes. You can shoot at continuous bracketing and silent shutter as the drop in resolution precision won't matter as we are increasing DR and S/N ratio in a very big way.
Expose until you get no Zebra strip pattern on the highlights areas.
Change the exposure by Adding +4EV to the scene.
The camera will reduce 2EV for the first bracket exposure ("-2" setting) which is actually our ETTR setting.
So, the camera bracketing script will run the following settings automatically:
-2 (no zebra + 2EV) ** That is our ETTR setting which saves all highlight data
0 (no zebra + 4EV) That is our initial exposure with no zebra + 4EV as described above.
+2 (no zebra + 6EV) Extra 2EV for the deepest shadows.
Tip: When shooting in manual mode, set your camera Exposure Step to "0.5EV" instead of "0.3EV". It's just easier to turn 2 vs 3 notches to the left on the shutter speed dial for every full EV.
For example, if you need to add +4EV, you would need to turn 8 notches to the left on the shutter speed dial. (instead of 12)
In aperture mode, you can either use the top dial or the exposure compensation slider (Add EV compensation to the functions button)
I hope many of you find this helpful.
All the best,
Fred...Show more →
p.3 #6 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern
prashant wrote:
Fred - is it possible to know your process after getting these into Lightroom? I often find the ETTR this way is slightly overexposed (default settings LR)
Well that's kind of the whole point. It's going to be overexposed SooC.
I can't speak for Fred and I'm sure he'll be along to give his take shortly, but generally the way I use it in Lightroom is just to pull down the exposure slider until the shot is exposed properly. Then when you want to go back and add shadow detail, it is using actual data that it still has in those shadows rather than interpolating as it would with a "proper" starting exposure with dark shadows.
No idea if that's the correct use or not, but that's usually how I use it. Hopefully I haven't been doing it wrong
p.3 #7 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern
I tried this method, and found that I generally have a blown channel, and some irrecoverible hilights.
As for processsing, the bes tway of doing it is a combination of pulling back the highlight and exposure slider. it will in part depend of how much of the scene is on the bright side. then you need to push shadows, and often pull back on the black slider as not to loose all contrast, and then push the contrast slider so it does not Look HDR>
p.3 #8 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern
Yes, the images will be overexposed when you bring them to Lightroom. Then you can play with the exposure/highlights sliders until your image looks well exposed to you. The benefit of ETTR is boosting shadows without unwanted notice increase.
Vcize wrote:
Well that's kind of the whole point. It's going to be overexposed SooC.
I can't speak for Fred and I'm sure he'll be along to give his take shortly, but generally the way I use it in Lightroom is just to pull down the exposure slider until the shot is exposed properly. Then when you want to go back and add shadow detail, it is using actual data that it still has in those shadows rather than interpolating as it would with a "proper" starting exposure with dark shadows.
No idea if that's the correct use or not, but that's usually how I use it. Hopefully I haven't been doing it wrong ...Show more →
p.3 #9 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern
It would not really matter because as you change white balance, the zebra patterns would be affected as well. So as long as you stay within the 2-stop limit, you should be fine. I usually have my WB set to Daylight when shooting landscapes.
rytch0 wrote:
Fred, what white balance setting are you using, which of course affects jpeg rendering and hence the zebra warnings. Thanks for the info!
p.3 #10 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern
Please describe your steps so I can see what could be the issue. Keep in mind that I only tested this on the A7RII as I wrote on my first post. If you are not using this camera, you may need to adjust the settings.
Best,
Fred
kevindar wrote:
I tried this method, and found that I generally have a blown channel, and some irrecoverible hilights.
As for processsing, the bes tway of doing it is a combination of pulling back the highlight and exposure slider. it will in part depend of how much of the scene is on the bright side. then you need to push shadows, and often pull back on the black slider as not to loose all contrast, and then push the contrast slider so it does not Look HDR>
p.3 #11 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern
Thanks Fred. I shot in manual. I set the zebra to 100+. I have the big stopper on. I have iso set to 50. set my aperture to f11. then I prolong shutter untill I see the very first zebra signs. I have the camera set to 1/3 stop increments, so I then click the shutter click and extra 6 clicks. take a shot.
I may have not seen some of the tinier zebras. thats a possibility. I actually mostly tried to stick to 5 Clicks (1.66 stops).
p.3 #14 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern
Well, it will not work with the big stopper, zebras are not accurate with a 10 stop filter.
kevindar wrote:
Thanks Fred. I shot in manual. I set the zebra to 100+. I have the big stopper on. I have iso set to 50. set my aperture to f11. then I prolong shutter untill I see the very first zebra signs. I have the camera set to 1/3 stop increments, so I then click the shutter click and extra 6 clicks. take a shot.
I may have not seen some of the tinier zebras. thats a possibility. I actually mostly tried to stick to 5 Clicks (1.66 stops).
p.3 #15 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern
I have tried it without the filter also. i still get some blown highlights. I will try to do a controlled test with various exposures and report back.
Fred I checked. on my a7r, with photo style set to STD (dont know if that effects the histogram) and watching zebras closely, I have between 1, and 1.3 stop head room in the highlights before at least one channel in the sky is blown.
safest for me is to ETTR 1 full stop from when the first zebras show up, or bracket on a7R
p.3 #16 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern
Isn't ISO 50 a "fake" ISO (below the native sensitivity of the sensor)? If so, that explains your 1-stop over-exposure when you go +2 as Fred recommends. You have already used one stop of the system capability by going to an ISO setting where the image is actually overexposed 1 stop and then mapped down.
p.3 #18 · Easy ETTR technique using the Zebra pattern
mdemeyer wrote:
Isn't ISO 50 a "fake" ISO (below the native sensitivity of the sensor)? If so, that explains your 1-stop over-exposure when you go +2 as Fred recommends. You have already used one stop of the system capability by going to an ISO setting where the image is actually overexposed 1 stop and then mapped down.
Michael
Yes, I missed that he used ISO 50. That's the reason for his blown highlights.
