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Archive 2015Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
p.25 #1Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
naturephoto1 wrote:
Steve Spencer wrote
philip_pj wrote
Listening to Rich Schleuning, it is very clear this is just the start of a new line, one Zeiss are likely to put out ahead of the specialist Loxias, in which they originally promised five lenses.It is only speculation, but Zeiss rarely do anything by half measures in 'own brand' lenses - Touit being the exception as Sony moves away from APS-C in this age of $1000 full frame bodies.
Contax Yashica had 30 lenses, ZEF around 11, ZM almost as many as that. All these ranges had very good spans with short separation, ZEF being the most recent had 15-18-21-25-28-35 (f1.4, f2)-50 (f1.4, f2)-85-100-135. Canon and Nikon are long lens specialists so Zeiss chased the 'enthusiast' focal lengths in ZEF, ZM stopped at 85.
Zeiss are big on common ergo and put considerable work into it with Batis. There are going to be just three Otus lenses, project 'halo' pro lenses if you will. They have now completed ZEF and ZM, so they have plenty of scope to develop full frame stills lenses in their favorite 135 format. They might be out to use FE as a vehicle and REALLY do the job well. Given a little time, of course. What if they duplicate the focal lengths in ZEF? The quality will not surprise, their latest lenses are 135/2 APO, Otus 55/85 and the hard to find Loxias.
Finally, AF zooms may enter the picture. The 35-70 still surprises after 20 years, can you say that about any contemporaneous Canon or Nikon zoom - no. They were noisy, clunky and heavy, hideous AF. No special anything in the CY either. Imagine a new version plus an 80-200/4.
Lacking C/N's range depth, Sony must be delighted.
This Batis line has also led me to rethink the Loxia line. I think I was wrong in initially predicting the next three Loxia lenses would be a 18, 25, and 85. Given these Batis lenses, I would be very surprised if that happens. Instead I think all three lenses will be wider, where I think there is more demand from videographers. I also expect Zeiss to avoid competition with the Batis lenses where they can. So I would expect something like a 15 or 16mm fisheye, a 21mm, and a 28mm. This would give a Loxia line with a 15 or 16mm fisheye, a 21mm, a 28mm, a 35mm and a 50mm. That would go a long way toward providing solid lenses for video for the system and would keep their commitment of making 5 Loxia lenses.
If you are correct, then it is quite likely that I will modify the sensor stack of my A7r and I will just continue to use my MF Leica M (and Minolta CLE 40mm f2 M-Rokkor) and Leica R lenses (and depending upon Doug Herr's [telyt] findings possibly a Canon 500mm f4.5L lens). I may totally bypass all of the Zeiss Loxia, Zeiss Batis, and Sony AF lenses at least for quite some time. I just hope that the newer and future Sony FE FF bodies will be able to have their Sensor's modified with a thin filter stack...Show more →
I am right with you, Rich. I too am hoping that Kolari can modify future cameras. Right now I am very happy with my A7II and I hope they can modify that camera. If they can, then I will have enough confidence that they can modify future cameras. In my case, however, I will probably wait a bit longer and let my wife build her kit with Sony/ Zeiss and Batis lenses while I use my ZEs. In time though I fully expect to get a modified camera and move to mostly Leica M mount glass.
May 14, 2015 at 11:52 PM
p.25 #2Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
It is worthy to mention that Lloyd has presented some initial test results for both the Batis 25 and 85 
The results look great!
Edited on May 25, 2015 at 01:04 AM · View previous versions
The results look great!Edited on May 25, 2015 at 01:04 AM · View previous versions
May 24, 2015 at 07:05 PM
p.25 #3Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
charles.K wrote:
It worthy to mention that Lloyd has presented some initial test results for both the Batis 25 and 85 The results look great!
Oh, no! I was hoping that the Batis 85mm would be somewhat underperforming. So, I could justify keeping my 85mm f/1.4 ZA
.
It worthy to mention that Lloyd has presented some initial test results for both the Batis 25 and 85
The results look great!Oh, no! I was hoping that the Batis 85mm would be somewhat underperforming. So, I could justify keeping my 85mm f/1.4 ZA
.May 24, 2015 at 07:59 PM
p.25 #4Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Oh, yes! I was hoping both the Batis 85mm and 25mm woudn't be somewhat underperforming, so I could justify not buying an OTUS 85, and letting my Elmarit R 28mm go.
May 24, 2015 at 11:29 PM
p.25 #5Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
I don't have an Otus 85mm, and I just did let my 28/2.8 Elmarit-R v2 go. I have a pretty strong hunch that the Batis 25 will be very good.
May 25, 2015 at 03:41 AM
p.25 #6Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Lloyd seems to be quite impressed:
"The Zeiss Batis 85mm f/1.8 Sonnar rocks. What a gorgeous lens (the Zeiss Batis 25/2 also). MUST HAVES for Sony shooters."
"The Zeiss Batis 85mm f/1.8 Sonnar rocks. What a gorgeous lens (the Zeiss Batis 25/2 also). MUST HAVES for Sony shooters."
May 25, 2015 at 08:09 AM
p.25 #7Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Whelp, I don't the 85 to be awesome, but if it is, I'll get one. I figure 28 f2, 55 f1.8 and 85 f1.8 OSS would make a nice lightweight prime set.
Chris
Chris
May 25, 2015 at 11:40 AM
p.25 #8Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
I wish I'd known you guys were letting 28 r2's go! I've been thinking about getting one...
May 27, 2015 at 12:21 AM
p.25 #9Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Lee Saxon wrote:
I wish I'd known you guys were letting 28 r2's go! I've been thinking about getting one...
I have one up for sale in Norway.
I wish I'd known you guys were letting 28 r2's go! I've been thinking about getting one...
I have one up for sale in Norway.
May 27, 2015 at 01:34 AM
p.25 #10Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
If, somehow, you can't agree with Twoeye, you can ask me, Lee.
May 27, 2015 at 02:04 AM
p.25 #11Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
How about the Tamron design rumours? Wonder if Zeiss will share their optical design drawings soon.
May 27, 2015 at 03:37 AM
p.25 #12Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Lloyd's opinion corroborates the stellar MTF. Very soon Sony FE will realise the efforts of both companies these past two years and will carve out a niche market for serious enthusiasts interested in SOA prime lenses. Then - what comes next?
May 27, 2015 at 03:59 AM
p.25 #13Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
More Batis, more Loxia, more FE, more market share for Sony, more trouble for Canikon, who won't play the FF mirrorless game for fear of hurting their DSLR business.
May 27, 2015 at 04:06 AM
p.25 #14Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Took a look at LC's samples on his free site - very very good, despite the subject matter not being the main purpose of the 85. Elegant indeed. Good that he mentioned the effects of curvature on bokeh, I agree with the idea that cross frame performance assists bokeh rendering.
An 18/2.8 next? I'd like to see a smallish 135/2.8 - Sony needs this lens in the system, and now with AF, a Batis looks a good bet at that FL, and they have an Otus level precedent lens in the 135/2 APO to key off. It's also a 'prestige' FL. We'll see.
An 18/2.8 next? I'd like to see a smallish 135/2.8 - Sony needs this lens in the system, and now with AF, a Batis looks a good bet at that FL, and they have an Otus level precedent lens in the 135/2 APO to key off. It's also a 'prestige' FL. We'll see.
May 27, 2015 at 05:02 AM
p.25 #15Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
SAR is reporting that the 85 may be a rebadged Tamron...seems everyone is getting in on the band wagon.
May 27, 2015 at 07:49 AM
p.25 #16Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
mogul wrote:
SAR is reporting that the 85 may be a rebadged Tamron...seems everyone is getting in on the band wagon.
What SAR is reporting is that Tamron had a patent on an 11 element 8 group 85mm with stabilization, then they speculated that maybe Zeiss bought this patent/design. Not much to connect the dots here. Perhaps it happened, but I would think it is more likely that it didn't.
SAR is reporting that the 85 may be a rebadged Tamron...seems everyone is getting in on the band wagon.
What SAR is reporting is that Tamron had a patent on an 11 element 8 group 85mm with stabilization, then they speculated that maybe Zeiss bought this patent/design. Not much to connect the dots here. Perhaps it happened, but I would think it is more likely that it didn't.
May 27, 2015 at 08:14 AM
p.25 #17Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Steve Spencer wrote:
What SAR is reporting is that Tamron had a patent on an 11 element 8 group 85mm with stabilization, then they speculated that maybe Zeiss bought this patent/design. Not much to connect the dots here. Perhaps it happened, but I would think it is more likely that it didn't.
Why? Sony has a major interest in Tamron and is partnered with Zeiss, this group has a large stake in making sure that the E mount has enough lenses to build out its line up. If it had a Tamron name on it Digilyold would not be waxing poetic of its qualities.
Edited on May 27, 2015 at 09:54 AM · View previous versions
mogul wrote
SAR is reporting that the 85 may be a rebadged Tamron...seems everyone is getting in on the band wagon.Why? Sony has a major interest in Tamron and is partnered with Zeiss, this group has a large stake in making sure that the E mount has enough lenses to build out its line up. If it had a Tamron name on it Digilyold would not be waxing poetic of its qualities.
Edited on May 27, 2015 at 09:54 AM · View previous versions
May 27, 2015 at 08:47 AM
p.25 #18Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
mogul wrote:
What SAR is reporting is that Tamron had a patent on an 11 element 8 group 85mm with stabilization, then they speculated that maybe Zeiss bought this patent/design. Not much to connect the dots here. Perhaps it happened, but I would think it is more likely that it didn't.Why? Sony has a major interest in Tamron and is partnered with Zeiss, this group has a large stake in making sure that the E mount has enough lenses to build out its line up. If it a Tamron name on it Digilyold would not be waxing poetic of its qualities.
The why is lack of any evidence that Zeiss actually bought the patent let alone the design from Tamron. It is pure speculation. I think Zeiss has enough experience designing lenses they could design this lens in house. There is no suggestion the 25 is anything other than a Zeiss design. I could see them perhaps buying the stabilization technology from Tamron. That is something they haven't done before, but lens design is their thing, so I can't see them buying someone else's design.
Steve Spencer wrote
mogul wrote
SAR is reporting that the 85 may be a rebadged Tamron...seems everyone is getting in on the band wagon.The why is lack of any evidence that Zeiss actually bought the patent let alone the design from Tamron. It is pure speculation. I think Zeiss has enough experience designing lenses they could design this lens in house. There is no suggestion the 25 is anything other than a Zeiss design. I could see them perhaps buying the stabilization technology from Tamron. That is something they haven't done before, but lens design is their thing, so I can't see them buying someone else's design.
May 27, 2015 at 09:49 AM
p.25 #19Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
mogul wrote:
What SAR is reporting is that Tamron had a patent on an 11 element 8 group 85mm with stabilization, then they speculated that maybe Zeiss bought this patent/design. Not much to connect the dots here. Perhaps it happened, but I would think it is more likely that it didn't.Why? Sony has a major interest in Tamron and is partnered with Zeiss, this group has a large stake in making sure that the E mount has enough lenses to build out its line up. If it a Tamron name on it Digilyold would not be waxing poetic of its qualities.
None of that provides support for the claim that the Batis 85/1.8 was designed by Tamron, or is a rebadged Tamron. It might make it plausible or be a motification for Tamron, Zeiss, and/or Sony, but as Steve said, I don't see how it connects the dots.
As I understand it, the data we have:
1. The Batis 85mm f/1.8 has 11 elements and 8 groups
2. We don't have a schematic for the Batis yet.
3. Tamron has a patent for a mirrorless 85mm f/1.8 with 11 elements and 8 groups
I don't see how that's enough to conclude that Tamron has designed and/or built the Batis 85/1.8.
I personally don't care who designed the Batis lenses. I doubt I'll ever own one. If I planned on getting one, I don't think this would matter much to me if the performance was there.
Steve Spencer wrote
mogul wrote
SAR is reporting that the 85 may be a rebadged Tamron...seems everyone is getting in on the band wagon.None of that provides support for the claim that the Batis 85/1.8 was designed by Tamron, or is a rebadged Tamron. It might make it plausible or be a motification for Tamron, Zeiss, and/or Sony, but as Steve said, I don't see how it connects the dots.
As I understand it, the data we have:
1. The Batis 85mm f/1.8 has 11 elements and 8 groups
2. We don't have a schematic for the Batis yet.
3. Tamron has a patent for a mirrorless 85mm f/1.8 with 11 elements and 8 groups
I don't see how that's enough to conclude that Tamron has designed and/or built the Batis 85/1.8.
I personally don't care who designed the Batis lenses. I doubt I'll ever own one. If I planned on getting one, I don't think this would matter much to me if the performance was there.
May 27, 2015 at 10:02 AM
p.25 #20Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
I count 12 elements in 7 groups in the Tamron patent. SAR has a recent track record of creating wild, unfounded speculations on their own account.
May 27, 2015 at 10:05 AM