This topic is in the 2015 archive. You can read it and like its posts here. It is read only.
Archive 2015Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
p.24 #1Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
I mostly agree, but for manufacturers like Sony who make DT (aps-c only lenses) like the fabulous DT 35/1.8 and pretty good DT 50/1.8, why aren't they making a DT 24/1.8? It is silly to emphasize a normal and portrait, without the normal wide. Had there been a DT 35mm equivalent, I may have never left aps-c. Now that I have, I love FF, but it just doesn't take much effort to make ff equivalent lenses that are good for those improving from.zoom only into a prime/zoom mix.
GMPhotography wrote:
I see no real point in making ApS size lenses except for maybe cost issues and that probably what Sony is thinking. They make cheap compacts that fill the inexpensive need and sell well. Besides that why compete with a APS when FF is selling so well. For every single one person that may balk at prices there are 2 people buying it regardless. Believe it or not photography as a hobby is not very expensive. Boating , motor cross Hobbes and others are far more expensive.
I have taught 27 workshops and trust me as the Pro I am seriously...Show more →
GMPhotography wrote:
I see no real point in making ApS size lenses except for maybe cost issues and that probably what Sony is thinking. They make cheap compacts that fill the inexpensive need and sell well. Besides that why compete with a APS when FF is selling so well. For every single one person that may balk at prices there are 2 people buying it regardless. Believe it or not photography as a hobby is not very expensive. Boating , motor cross Hobbes and others are far more expensive.
I have taught 27 workshops and trust me as the Pro I am seriously...Show more →
May 11, 2015 at 08:35 AM
p.24 #2Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Sony is a little baffling in there lens choices. Not sure too many would argue that.
May 11, 2015 at 08:38 AM
p.24 #3Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
The guy in charge of the optics unit is obviously a WA aficionado.
May 11, 2015 at 09:35 AM
p.24 #4Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
TheEmrys wrote:
I mostly agree, but for manufacturers like Sony who make DT (aps-c only lenses) like the fabulous DT 35/1.8 and pretty good DT 50/1.8, why aren't they making a DT 24/1.8? It is silly to emphasize a normal and portrait, without the normal wide. Had there been a DT 35mm equivalent, I may have never left aps-c. Now that I have, I love FF, but it just doesn't take much effort to make ff equivalent lenses that are good for those improving from.zoom only into a prime/zoom mix.
Actually they do, it's called Zeiss 24/1,8 (SEL24F18). Remember that Sony-Zeiss are actually Sony lenses…
May 11, 2015 at 09:53 AM
p.24 #5Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Right, but no SAL24. I think DT's are a-mount only.
xbarcelo wrote:
Actually they do, it's called Zeiss 24/1,8 (SEL24F18). Remember that Sony-Zeiss are actually Sony lenses…
xbarcelo wrote:
TheEmrys wrote
I mostly agree, but for manufacturers like Sony who make DT (aps-c only lenses) like the fabulous DT 35/1.8 and pretty good DT 50/1.8, why aren't they making a DT 24/1.8? It is silly to emphasize a normal and portrait, without the normal wide. Had there been a DT 35mm equivalent, I may have never left aps-c. Now that I have, I love FF, but it just doesn't take much effort to make ff equivalent lenses that are good for those improving from.zoom only into a prime/zoom mix.May 11, 2015 at 09:54 AM
p.24 #6Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
More Batis 2/25 and one more Batis 1,8/85 sample up on Zeiss´s Flickr stream.
Some of them shot with the Sony α7R II according to Zeiss:-)
Some of them shot with the Sony α7R II according to Zeiss:-)
May 12, 2015 at 02:08 AM
p.24 #7Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Typo, accidental leak or cunning plan to build excitement?
May 12, 2015 at 03:03 AM
p.24 #8Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Typo, I guess, corrected to Sony α7 II now.
May 12, 2015 at 03:13 AM
p.24 #9Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
twoeye wrote:
Typo, I guess, corrected to Sony α7 II now.
The image of the girl from a top down view was apparently shot on the A7r II which apparently has 56mp due to the size it is on flicker (8910x6300). I don't pay much attention to numbers, so I don't know if the math works out. But you can check the rumour sites to see what I mean.
Typo, I guess, corrected to Sony α7 II now.
The image of the girl from a top down view was apparently shot on the A7r II which apparently has 56mp due to the size it is on flicker (8910x6300). I don't pay much attention to numbers, so I don't know if the math works out. But you can check the rumour sites to see what I mean.
May 12, 2015 at 04:22 AM
p.24 #10Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Zeiss already confirmed the use of the A7II for these images.
May 12, 2015 at 09:52 AM
p.24 #11Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
DavidBM wrote:
Typo, accidental leak or cunning plan to build excitement?
I posted this on SAR - Great job by Zeiss with the A7rII "mistakes" as the interweb is eating it up and drawing a lot of extra/free attention to the Batis lenses. Great marketing tactic. Expect more given the amount of chatter, it's like shooting fish in a barrel.
Just look at the three Touit galleries - covering E-mount and Fuji so you have a much larger user base than FE lenses and they've been out for a year - 186 images and 24,400 views between all three. The Batis 25 basically matches that number of views and the 85 has 9,000 more, and they've only been up a few weeks. Brilliant.
And I predict there will be more mistakes -- errr -- samples with no exif and incorrect labeling. Hell, I'd start making up more, A7000, A7sII, A9, A9r, A6, A9II (going way into the future), A7III and so on.
Of course I'd be happy to be wrong.
Typo, accidental leak or cunning plan to build excitement?
I posted this on SAR - Great job by Zeiss with the A7rII "mistakes" as the interweb is eating it up and drawing a lot of extra/free attention to the Batis lenses. Great marketing tactic. Expect more given the amount of chatter, it's like shooting fish in a barrel.
Just look at the three Touit galleries - covering E-mount and Fuji so you have a much larger user base than FE lenses and they've been out for a year - 186 images and 24,400 views between all three. The Batis 25 basically matches that number of views and the 85 has 9,000 more, and they've only been up a few weeks. Brilliant.
And I predict there will be more mistakes -- errr -- samples with no exif and incorrect labeling. Hell, I'd start making up more, A7000, A7sII, A9, A9r, A6, A9II (going way into the future), A7III and so on.
Of course I'd be happy to be wrong.
May 12, 2015 at 01:34 PM
p.24 #12Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
joychris wrote:
I posted this on SAR - Great job by Zeiss with the A7rII "mistakes" as the interweb is eating it up and drawing a lot of extra/free attention to the Batis lenses. Great marketing tactic. Expect more given the amount of chatter, it's like shooting fish in a barrel.
Just look at the three Touit galleries - covering E-mount and Fuji so you have a much larger user base than FE lenses and they've been out for a year - 186 images and 24,400 views between all three. The Batis 25 basically matches that number of views and the 85 has...Show more →
Interesting POV, Joychris! You make a convicing argument.
DavidBM wrote
Typo, accidental leak or cunning plan to build excitement?Just look at the three Touit galleries - covering E-mount and Fuji so you have a much larger user base than FE lenses and they've been out for a year - 186 images and 24,400 views between all three. The Batis 25 basically matches that number of views and the 85 has...Show more →
Interesting POV, Joychris! You make a convicing argument.
May 12, 2015 at 03:37 PM
p.24 #13Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
philber wrote:
I posted this on SAR - Great job by Zeiss with the A7rII "mistakes" as the interweb is eating it up and drawing a lot of extra/free attention to the Batis lenses. Great marketing tactic. Expect more given the amount of chatter, it's like shooting fish in a barrel.
Just look at the three Touit galleries - covering E-mount and Fuji so you have a much larger user base than FE lenses and they've been out for a year - 186 images and 24,400 views between all three. The Batis 25 basically matches that number of views and the 85 has 9,000 more, and they've only been up a few weeks. Brilliant.
And I predict there will be more mistakes -- errr -- samples with no exif and incorrect labeling. Hell, I'd start making up more, A7000, A7sII, A9, A9r, A6, A9II (going way into the future), A7III and so on.
Of course I'd be happy to be wrong.Interesting POV, Joychris! You make a convicing argument.
Thanks. It just seems too deliberate. And it's working. Like I said though, I'm happy to be wrong.
Chris
joychris wrote
DavidBM wrote
Typo, accidental leak or cunning plan to build excitement?Just look at the three Touit galleries - covering E-mount and Fuji so you have a much larger user base than FE lenses and they've been out for a year - 186 images and 24,400 views between all three. The Batis 25 basically matches that number of views and the 85 has 9,000 more, and they've only been up a few weeks. Brilliant.
And I predict there will be more mistakes -- errr -- samples with no exif and incorrect labeling. Hell, I'd start making up more, A7000, A7sII, A9, A9r, A6, A9II (going way into the future), A7III and so on.
Of course I'd be happy to be wrong.
Thanks. It just seems too deliberate. And it's working. Like I said though, I'm happy to be wrong.
Chris
May 12, 2015 at 06:53 PM
p.24 #14Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
The fact that so many people are looking seems to bode well for the system though...
-Tim
May 12, 2015 at 07:05 PM
p.24 #15Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
joychris wrote:
philber wrote
joychris wrote
DavidBM wrote
Typo, accidental leak or cunning plan to build excitement?Just look at the three Touit galleries - covering E-mount and Fuji so you have a much larger user base than FE lenses and they've been out for a year - 186 images and 24,400 views between all three. The Batis 25 basically matches that number of views and the 85 has 9,000 more, and they've only been up a few weeks. Brilliant.
And I predict there will be more mistakes -- errr -- samples with no exif and incorrect labeling. Hell, I'd start making up more, A7000, A7sII, A9, A9r, A6, A9II (going way into the future), A7III and so on.
Of course I'd be happy to be wrong.
Chris
I tend to agree. The first allegedly A7rII image is what brought me to this view. The evidence seems to point to the fact that it was upscaled to the 5x MP size. Accidents happen, but that was a bit too right on top have been a typo on export for me.
May 12, 2015 at 07:49 PM
p.24 #16Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Teasers fill in the gaps in 'developments' which the internet population now wants on a quasi daily basis, much like spakfilla on a cracked wall. Companies now announce forthcoming product months out, then dribble out bits and pieces, made clear in a Zeiss vid I linked to last day or two. It keeps peoples' expectations of sugar fixes high and you can hammer readers with more ads when they look to find more info, but it can help too.
I won't be looking for a portrait lens outside of Zeiss now like I might have if they did not embark on the Batis slow burn marketing. Re the xx Mp thing, people love puzzles, don't they. So exploit that. ;-)
I won't be looking for a portrait lens outside of Zeiss now like I might have if they did not embark on the Batis slow burn marketing. Re the xx Mp thing, people love puzzles, don't they. So exploit that. ;-)
May 13, 2015 at 03:38 AM
p.24 #17Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Agree Philip. Just smart marketing using any resource available - including rumor sites that can obviously drive traffic and interest.
The two Batis lenses with the 55 makes for a sweet prime kit.
The two Batis lenses with the 55 makes for a sweet prime kit.
May 13, 2015 at 06:02 AM
p.24 #18Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Listening to Rich Schleuning, it is very clear this is just the start of a new line, one Zeiss are likely to put out ahead of the specialist Loxias, in which they originally promised five lenses.
It is only speculation, but Zeiss rarely do anything by half measures in 'own brand' lenses - Touit being the exception as Sony moves away from APS-C in this age of $1000 full frame bodies.
Contax Yashica had 30 lenses, ZEF around 11, ZM almost as many as that. All these ranges had very good spans with short separation, ZEF being the most recent had 15-18-21-25-28-35 (f1.4, f2)-50 (f1.4, f2)-85-100-135. Canon and Nikon are long lens specialists so Zeiss chased the 'enthusiast' focal lengths in ZEF, ZM stopped at 85.
Zeiss are big on common ergo and put considerable work into it with Batis. There are going to be just three Otus lenses, project 'halo' pro lenses if you will. They have now completed ZEF and ZM, so they have plenty of scope to develop full frame stills lenses in their favorite 135 format. They might be out to use FE as a vehicle and REALLY do the job well. Given a little time, of course. What if they duplicate the focal lengths in ZEF? The quality will not surprise, their latest lenses are 135/2 APO, Otus 55/85 and the hard to find Loxias.
Finally, AF zooms may enter the picture. The 35-70 still surprises after 20 years, can you say that about any contemporaneous Canon or Nikon zoom - no. They were noisy, clunky and heavy, hideous AF. No special anything in the CY either. Imagine a new version plus an 80-200/4.
Lacking C/N's range depth, Sony must be delighted.
It is only speculation, but Zeiss rarely do anything by half measures in 'own brand' lenses - Touit being the exception as Sony moves away from APS-C in this age of $1000 full frame bodies.
Contax Yashica had 30 lenses, ZEF around 11, ZM almost as many as that. All these ranges had very good spans with short separation, ZEF being the most recent had 15-18-21-25-28-35 (f1.4, f2)-50 (f1.4, f2)-85-100-135. Canon and Nikon are long lens specialists so Zeiss chased the 'enthusiast' focal lengths in ZEF, ZM stopped at 85.
Zeiss are big on common ergo and put considerable work into it with Batis. There are going to be just three Otus lenses, project 'halo' pro lenses if you will. They have now completed ZEF and ZM, so they have plenty of scope to develop full frame stills lenses in their favorite 135 format. They might be out to use FE as a vehicle and REALLY do the job well. Given a little time, of course. What if they duplicate the focal lengths in ZEF? The quality will not surprise, their latest lenses are 135/2 APO, Otus 55/85 and the hard to find Loxias.
Finally, AF zooms may enter the picture. The 35-70 still surprises after 20 years, can you say that about any contemporaneous Canon or Nikon zoom - no. They were noisy, clunky and heavy, hideous AF. No special anything in the CY either. Imagine a new version plus an 80-200/4.
Lacking C/N's range depth, Sony must be delighted.
May 14, 2015 at 07:50 AM
p.24 #19Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
philip_pj wrote:
Listening to Rich Schleuning, it is very clear this is just the start of a new line, one Zeiss are likely to put out ahead of the specialist Loxias, in which they originally promised five lenses.
It is only speculation, but Zeiss rarely do anything by half measures in 'own brand' lenses - Touit being the exception as Sony moves away from APS-C in this age of $1000 full frame bodies.
Contax Yashica had 30 lenses, ZEF around 11, ZM almost as many as that. All these ranges had very good spans with short separation, ZEF being the most recent had 15-18-21-25-28-35...Show more →
I think you are right that eventually the Batis line will be a full line, but not right away and it only makes sense to consider the Sony/Zeiss lenses as it develops. So what does that mean? In my view I think that means that the next lenses we can expect are something wider perhaps an 18mm f/2.8 or 3.5 (this has no Sony/Zeiss competition), something longer perhaps a 135mm f/2 or f/2.5 (this has no Sony/Zeiss E mount competition, but does have A mount competition). I would also expect a shorter macro perhaps a 60mm f/2 or f/2.8. Then I think the next obvious moves are for a 35 f/2 and a 50 f/1.4 (these have Sony/Zeiss competition at the focal length but not the aperture and Loxia competition for the 35 at both focal length and aperture and at 50 just at the focal length). This would give a Batis line of 18, 25, 35, 50, 60 (macro), 85, and 135. Not a bad line-up at all. Not quite complete, but all fairly different from the Sony/Zeiss offerings. To that if they could add a nice 24-85ish f/4 zoom, and perhaps a 400 f/4 (borrowing from their excellent Contax N designs), they could add a great deal of functionality to the FE mount and I think sell quite a few lenses without competing with the Sony/Zeiss lenses that are available. Of course they might leave some of these lenses to be developed by Sony and they might add a lens or two that do compete with Sony/Zeiss or Sony G offerings if the Sony lenses don't sell well or aren't up to expectations.
This Batis line has also led me to rethink the Loxia line. I think I was wrong in initially predicting the next three Loxia lenses would be a 18, 25, and 85. Given these Batis lenses, I would be very surprised if that happens. Instead I think all three lenses will be wider, where I think there is more demand from videographers. I also expect Zeiss to avoid competition with the Batis lenses where they can. So I would expect something like a 15 or 16mm fisheye, a 21mm, and a 28mm. This would give a Loxia line with a 15 or 16mm fisheye, a 21mm, a 28mm, a 35mm and a 50mm. That would go a long way toward providing solid lenses for video for the system and would keep their commitment of making 5 Loxia lenses.
Listening to Rich Schleuning, it is very clear this is just the start of a new line, one Zeiss are likely to put out ahead of the specialist Loxias, in which they originally promised five lenses.
It is only speculation, but Zeiss rarely do anything by half measures in 'own brand' lenses - Touit being the exception as Sony moves away from APS-C in this age of $1000 full frame bodies.
Contax Yashica had 30 lenses, ZEF around 11, ZM almost as many as that. All these ranges had very good spans with short separation, ZEF being the most recent had 15-18-21-25-28-35...Show more →
I think you are right that eventually the Batis line will be a full line, but not right away and it only makes sense to consider the Sony/Zeiss lenses as it develops. So what does that mean? In my view I think that means that the next lenses we can expect are something wider perhaps an 18mm f/2.8 or 3.5 (this has no Sony/Zeiss competition), something longer perhaps a 135mm f/2 or f/2.5 (this has no Sony/Zeiss E mount competition, but does have A mount competition). I would also expect a shorter macro perhaps a 60mm f/2 or f/2.8. Then I think the next obvious moves are for a 35 f/2 and a 50 f/1.4 (these have Sony/Zeiss competition at the focal length but not the aperture and Loxia competition for the 35 at both focal length and aperture and at 50 just at the focal length). This would give a Batis line of 18, 25, 35, 50, 60 (macro), 85, and 135. Not a bad line-up at all. Not quite complete, but all fairly different from the Sony/Zeiss offerings. To that if they could add a nice 24-85ish f/4 zoom, and perhaps a 400 f/4 (borrowing from their excellent Contax N designs), they could add a great deal of functionality to the FE mount and I think sell quite a few lenses without competing with the Sony/Zeiss lenses that are available. Of course they might leave some of these lenses to be developed by Sony and they might add a lens or two that do compete with Sony/Zeiss or Sony G offerings if the Sony lenses don't sell well or aren't up to expectations.
This Batis line has also led me to rethink the Loxia line. I think I was wrong in initially predicting the next three Loxia lenses would be a 18, 25, and 85. Given these Batis lenses, I would be very surprised if that happens. Instead I think all three lenses will be wider, where I think there is more demand from videographers. I also expect Zeiss to avoid competition with the Batis lenses where they can. So I would expect something like a 15 or 16mm fisheye, a 21mm, and a 28mm. This would give a Loxia line with a 15 or 16mm fisheye, a 21mm, a 28mm, a 35mm and a 50mm. That would go a long way toward providing solid lenses for video for the system and would keep their commitment of making 5 Loxia lenses.
May 14, 2015 at 08:30 AM
p.24 #20Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Steve Spencer wrote:
It is only speculation, but Zeiss rarely do anything by half measures in 'own brand' lenses - Touit being the exception as Sony moves away from APS-C in this age of $1000 full frame bodies.
Contax Yashica had 30 lenses, ZEF around 11, ZM almost as many as that. All these ranges had very good spans with short separation, ZEF being the most recent had 15-18-21-25-28-35 (f1.4, f2)-50 (f1.4, f2)-85-100-135. Canon and Nikon are long lens specialists so Zeiss chased the 'enthusiast' focal lengths in ZEF, ZM stopped at 85.
Zeiss are big on common ergo and put considerable work into it with Batis. There are going to be just three Otus lenses, project 'halo' pro lenses if you will. They have now completed ZEF and ZM, so they have plenty of scope to develop full frame stills lenses in their favorite 135 format. They might be out to use FE as a vehicle and REALLY do the job well. Given a little time, of course. What if they duplicate the focal lengths in ZEF? The quality will not surprise, their latest lenses are 135/2 APO, Otus 55/85 and the hard to find Loxias.
Finally, AF zooms may enter the picture. The 35-70 still surprises after 20 years, can you say that about any contemporaneous Canon or Nikon zoom - no. They were noisy, clunky and heavy, hideous AF. No special anything in the CY either. Imagine a new version plus an 80-200/4.
Lacking C/N's range depth, Sony must be delighted.I think you are right that eventually the Batis line will be a full line, but not right away and it only makes sense to consider the Sony/Zeiss lenses as it develops. So what does that mean? In my view I think that means that the next lenses we can expect are something wider perhaps an 18mm f/2.8 or 3.5 (this has no Sony/Zeiss competition), something longer perhaps a 135mm f/2 or f/2.5 (this has no Sony/Zeiss E mount competition, but does have A mount competition). I would also expect a shorter macro perhaps a 60mm f/2 or f/2.8....Show more →
Hi Steve,
If you are correct, then it is quite likely that I will modify the sensor stack of my A7r and I will just continue to use my MF Leica M (and Minolta CLE 40mm f2 M-Rokkor) and Leica R lenses (and depending upon Doug Herr's [telyt] findings possibly a Canon 500mm f4.5L lens). I may totally bypass all of the Zeiss Loxia, Zeiss Batis, and Sony AF lenses at least for quite some time. I just hope that the newer and future Sony FE FF bodies will be able to have their Sensor's modified with a thin filter stack as Kolari is able to do with the A7, A7r, and A7s cameras.
Rich
philip_pj wrote
Listening to Rich Schleuning, it is very clear this is just the start of a new line, one Zeiss are likely to put out ahead of the specialist Loxias, in which they originally promised five lenses.It is only speculation, but Zeiss rarely do anything by half measures in 'own brand' lenses - Touit being the exception as Sony moves away from APS-C in this age of $1000 full frame bodies.
Contax Yashica had 30 lenses, ZEF around 11, ZM almost as many as that. All these ranges had very good spans with short separation, ZEF being the most recent had 15-18-21-25-28-35 (f1.4, f2)-50 (f1.4, f2)-85-100-135. Canon and Nikon are long lens specialists so Zeiss chased the 'enthusiast' focal lengths in ZEF, ZM stopped at 85.
Zeiss are big on common ergo and put considerable work into it with Batis. There are going to be just three Otus lenses, project 'halo' pro lenses if you will. They have now completed ZEF and ZM, so they have plenty of scope to develop full frame stills lenses in their favorite 135 format. They might be out to use FE as a vehicle and REALLY do the job well. Given a little time, of course. What if they duplicate the focal lengths in ZEF? The quality will not surprise, their latest lenses are 135/2 APO, Otus 55/85 and the hard to find Loxias.
Finally, AF zooms may enter the picture. The 35-70 still surprises after 20 years, can you say that about any contemporaneous Canon or Nikon zoom - no. They were noisy, clunky and heavy, hideous AF. No special anything in the CY either. Imagine a new version plus an 80-200/4.
Lacking C/N's range depth, Sony must be delighted.
Hi Steve,
If you are correct, then it is quite likely that I will modify the sensor stack of my A7r and I will just continue to use my MF Leica M (and Minolta CLE 40mm f2 M-Rokkor) and Leica R lenses (and depending upon Doug Herr's [telyt] findings possibly a Canon 500mm f4.5L lens). I may totally bypass all of the Zeiss Loxia, Zeiss Batis, and Sony AF lenses at least for quite some time. I just hope that the newer and future Sony FE FF bodies will be able to have their Sensor's modified with a thin filter stack as Kolari is able to do with the A7, A7r, and A7s cameras.
Rich
May 14, 2015 at 12:25 PM