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Archive 2015A7rII rumour
p.8 #1A7rII rumour
Sports guys don't need or want 36MP or 50MP. Low light is way more important as is world class AF. Btw, Canon sells quite a few of the big white lenses. Sony's doesn't have the complete line at competitive prices, so it doesn't matter what body they bring out. No lens line up=No pro user sales.
Mar 22, 2015 at 09:05 AM
p.8 #2A7rII rumour
picboy wrote:
Sports guys don't need or want 36MP or 50MP. Low light is way more important as is world class AF. Btw, Canon sells quite a few of the big white lenses. Sony's doesn't have the complete line at competitive prices, so it doesn't matter what body they bring out. No lens line up=No pro user sales.
Exactly right and well said, it's pointless to think "pros" will adopt a mount for the camera's features if the lenses aren't there.
Furthermore, most of the features we are all waiting for (each of us with our own subset) are widely found on dslr bodies.
There are certain advantages that make putting up with being an early adopter worthwhile but it will be nice in another generation or three when the mirrorless bodies lack nothing compared to dslr and the lens lineup is broader.
Still wondering why nikon hasn't simply released an f mount mirrorless body to show everyone it's possible to have mirrorless and a great lens lineup and prevent any switching away to other brands. It seems their time is running out.
I'm really excited about the a7r2 and a9 announcements but would forget Sony forever if nikon went full frame mirrorless for the f mount.
Mar 22, 2015 at 09:22 AM
p.8 #3A7rII rumour
I think I don't care - 36MP or 50MP, I might care for the NEWER sensor, regardless MPs.
I would assume they must know how many people are adapting lenses, at some point
they must consider this as a factor...
I would assume they must know how many people are adapting lenses, at some point
they must consider this as a factor...
Mar 22, 2015 at 09:32 AM
p.8 #4A7rII rumour
ecarlino wrote:
Exactly right and well said, it's pointless to think "pros" will adopt a mount for the camera's features if the lenses aren't there.
Furthermore, most of the features we are all waiting for (each of us with our own subset) are widely found on dslr bodies.
There are certain advantages that make putting up with being an early adopter worthwhile but it will be nice in another generation or three when the mirrorless bodies lack nothing compared to dslr and the lens lineup is broader.
Still wondering why nikon hasn't simply released an f mount mirrorless body to show everyone it's possible to...Show more →
Why would Nikon put out a mirrorless camera (like Pentax did) with a long flange to accept F lenses? There is no advantage. They will need to put out a whole different lens line (and be way behind Sony). The Nikon 1 is their answer to the Sony E mount and we know how successful that has been. Just wishing for something is not realizing the R&D that goes into Sony's cameras which Nikon can not duplicate.
picboy wrote
Sports guys don't need or want 36MP or 50MP. Low light is way more important as is world class AF. Btw, Canon sells quite a few of the big white lenses. Sony's doesn't have the complete line at competitive prices, so it doesn't matter what body they bring out. No lens line up=No pro user sales.Furthermore, most of the features we are all waiting for (each of us with our own subset) are widely found on dslr bodies.
There are certain advantages that make putting up with being an early adopter worthwhile but it will be nice in another generation or three when the mirrorless bodies lack nothing compared to dslr and the lens lineup is broader.
Still wondering why nikon hasn't simply released an f mount mirrorless body to show everyone it's possible to...Show more →
Why would Nikon put out a mirrorless camera (like Pentax did) with a long flange to accept F lenses? There is no advantage. They will need to put out a whole different lens line (and be way behind Sony). The Nikon 1 is their answer to the Sony E mount and we know how successful that has been. Just wishing for something is not realizing the R&D that goes into Sony's cameras which Nikon can not duplicate.
Mar 22, 2015 at 09:35 AM
p.8 #5A7rII rumour
picboy wrote:
Sports guys don't need or want 36MP or 50MP. Low light is way more important as is world class AF. Btw, Canon sells quite a few of the big white lenses. Sony's doesn't have the complete line at competitive prices, so it doesn't matter what body they bring out. No lens line up=No pro user sales.
my guess is that fashion, event, portrait, advertising, corporate, travel, and magazine pros would benefit a lot more if Sony offered higher flash sync speeds (maybe RX cameras with several focal lengths) robust wireless remote control, a few more primes like the 55, several pro zooms, and bodies with better weather sealing and menu/button arrangement.
there is a lot more opportunity now selling pro mirrorless camera systems to "sometimes pros" and those who aspire than to the bearers of big white lenses.
I personally want 3 more RX1 like cameras, 18-24mm, 55mm and 85-105mm
Sports guys don't need or want 36MP or 50MP. Low light is way more important as is world class AF. Btw, Canon sells quite a few of the big white lenses. Sony's doesn't have the complete line at competitive prices, so it doesn't matter what body they bring out. No lens line up=No pro user sales.
my guess is that fashion, event, portrait, advertising, corporate, travel, and magazine pros would benefit a lot more if Sony offered higher flash sync speeds (maybe RX cameras with several focal lengths) robust wireless remote control, a few more primes like the 55, several pro zooms, and bodies with better weather sealing and menu/button arrangement.
there is a lot more opportunity now selling pro mirrorless camera systems to "sometimes pros" and those who aspire than to the bearers of big white lenses.
I personally want 3 more RX1 like cameras, 18-24mm, 55mm and 85-105mm
Mar 22, 2015 at 09:57 AM
p.8 #6A7rII rumour
mogul wrote:
Why would Nikon put out a mirrorless camera (like Pentax did) with a long flange to accept F lenses? There is no advantage. They will need to put out a whole different lens line (and be way behind Sony). The Nikon 1 is their answer to the Sony E mount and we know how successful that has been. Just wishing for something is not realizing the R&D that goes into Sony's cameras which Nikon can not duplicate.
OK, let's pick this apart one sentence at a time:
"Why would Nikon put out a mirrorless camera (like Pentax did) with a long flange to accept F lenses? There is no advantage."
Well, Nikon has a huge lens base that goes way back to the 1960s or so of F mount lenses that Sony never had. You could get a lot of mirrorless advantages just by swapping out the mirror + OVF and going mirrorless + EVF and Nikon would only need to have PDAF on chip to do this so that their AF lenses would still work as intended. There likely would be many people that would buy this camera, but it could not use any future short flange lens line that Nikon might go to.
"They will need to put out a whole different lens line (and be way behind Sony)"
First Sony is not that far ahead in native EF mount lenses, and second, I suspect Nikon could catch up really fast if they wanted to.
"The Nikon 1 is their answer to the Sony E mount and we know how successful that has been."
The Nikon 1 was definitely NOT Nikon's answer to the E mount and it has been crippled by catering the to the point and shoot crowd as opposed to the more enthusiast crowd and never had any intentions of being any where near a pro-type of system whereas the Sony EF mount has that capability and likely Sony is taking it there.
"Just wishing for something is not realizing the R&D that goes into Sony's cameras which Nikon can not duplicate."
Just what exactly do think Nikon can't duplicate? I think Sony's advantage is in the ability to get the body size down (miniaturization/mass production), but they are far behind Nikon in things like shutters, electronics, lenses/optics, camera software, ergonomics, etc., etc. that make up a camera system.
If Nikon were smart they would have this all figured out - i.e., a full frame mirrorless plan - and are just deciding when/if to pull the trigger on starting a mirrorless camera line.
The right way (according to me) to do it would be to make a new F mount that had a much shorter registration distance (and maybe even larger diameter) and start a new lens lineup, BUT they need to have an adapter that will allow FULL functionality of existing AFS lenses (and maybe D lenses, but I suspect not) that are optimized for PDAF and have PDAF on the sensor. This then keeps their current Nikon folks happy and allows for all the mirrorless advantages both on the body and lens side of things. And more importantly it keeps customers, like me who have already bought m43 and Sony mirrorless systems, from bleeding away.
Why would Nikon put out a mirrorless camera (like Pentax did) with a long flange to accept F lenses? There is no advantage. They will need to put out a whole different lens line (and be way behind Sony). The Nikon 1 is their answer to the Sony E mount and we know how successful that has been. Just wishing for something is not realizing the R&D that goes into Sony's cameras which Nikon can not duplicate.
OK, let's pick this apart one sentence at a time:
"Why would Nikon put out a mirrorless camera (like Pentax did) with a long flange to accept F lenses? There is no advantage."
Well, Nikon has a huge lens base that goes way back to the 1960s or so of F mount lenses that Sony never had. You could get a lot of mirrorless advantages just by swapping out the mirror + OVF and going mirrorless + EVF and Nikon would only need to have PDAF on chip to do this so that their AF lenses would still work as intended. There likely would be many people that would buy this camera, but it could not use any future short flange lens line that Nikon might go to.
"They will need to put out a whole different lens line (and be way behind Sony)"
First Sony is not that far ahead in native EF mount lenses, and second, I suspect Nikon could catch up really fast if they wanted to.
"The Nikon 1 is their answer to the Sony E mount and we know how successful that has been."
The Nikon 1 was definitely NOT Nikon's answer to the E mount and it has been crippled by catering the to the point and shoot crowd as opposed to the more enthusiast crowd and never had any intentions of being any where near a pro-type of system whereas the Sony EF mount has that capability and likely Sony is taking it there.
"Just wishing for something is not realizing the R&D that goes into Sony's cameras which Nikon can not duplicate."
Just what exactly do think Nikon can't duplicate? I think Sony's advantage is in the ability to get the body size down (miniaturization/mass production), but they are far behind Nikon in things like shutters, electronics, lenses/optics, camera software, ergonomics, etc., etc. that make up a camera system.
If Nikon were smart they would have this all figured out - i.e., a full frame mirrorless plan - and are just deciding when/if to pull the trigger on starting a mirrorless camera line.
The right way (according to me) to do it would be to make a new F mount that had a much shorter registration distance (and maybe even larger diameter) and start a new lens lineup, BUT they need to have an adapter that will allow FULL functionality of existing AFS lenses (and maybe D lenses, but I suspect not) that are optimized for PDAF and have PDAF on the sensor. This then keeps their current Nikon folks happy and allows for all the mirrorless advantages both on the body and lens side of things. And more importantly it keeps customers, like me who have already bought m43 and Sony mirrorless systems, from bleeding away.
Mar 22, 2015 at 10:35 AM
p.8 #7A7rII rumour
mogul wrote:
Exactly right and well said, it's pointless to think "pros" will adopt a mount for the camera's features if the lenses aren't there.
Furthermore, most of the features we are all waiting for (each of us with our own subset) are widely found on dslr bodies.
There are certain advantages that make putting up with being an early adopter worthwhile but it will be nice in another generation or three when the mirrorless bodies lack nothing compared to dslr and the lens lineup is broader.
Still wondering why nikon hasn't simply released an f mount mirrorless body to show everyone it's possible to have mirrorless and a great lens lineup and prevent any switching away to other brands. It seems their time is running out.
I'm really excited about the a7r2 and a9 announcements but would forget Sony forever if nikon went full frame mirrorless for the f mount.Why would Nikon put out a mirrorless camera (like Pentax did) with a long flange to accept F lenses? There is no advantage. They will need to put out a whole different lens line (and be way behind Sony). The Nikon 1 is their answer to the Sony E mount and we know how successful that has been. Just wishing for something is not realizing the R&D that goes into Sony's cameras which Nikon can not duplicate.
has the 'short flange distance' helped with keeping the 35/1.4 and 90 macro 'small' ?
the advantage of accepting the f-mount lens system is OBVIOUS - there are hundreds of lenses, dozens to suit every style, budget, etc.
the advantage of mirrorless for Nikon would also be EVF (once it improves) and all of the associated advantages.
frankly, I don't have time to go into all of the advantages of users of the f-mount system, if it's not obvious to you, it's not worth detailing.
I personally think they only reason they haven't is b/c EVF technology is still too far behind to compete with OVF (as far as refresh and a few other things - note that Sony's response so far in the a6000 was to lower the resolution so they could refresh it faster).
I can see why Nikon may not have as all the components aren't yet up to dslr standard, and they may not want to release a full frame mirrorless before its ready for prime time - but releasing a consumer level full frame mirrorless to show they're headed in that direction may be a good idea to keep the Nikon faithful from defecting to sony (and selling their f-mount lens collection).
ecarlino wrote
picboy wrote
Sports guys don't need or want 36MP or 50MP. Low light is way more important as is world class AF. Btw, Canon sells quite a few of the big white lenses. Sony's doesn't have the complete line at competitive prices, so it doesn't matter what body they bring out. No lens line up=No pro user sales.Furthermore, most of the features we are all waiting for (each of us with our own subset) are widely found on dslr bodies.
There are certain advantages that make putting up with being an early adopter worthwhile but it will be nice in another generation or three when the mirrorless bodies lack nothing compared to dslr and the lens lineup is broader.
Still wondering why nikon hasn't simply released an f mount mirrorless body to show everyone it's possible to have mirrorless and a great lens lineup and prevent any switching away to other brands. It seems their time is running out.
I'm really excited about the a7r2 and a9 announcements but would forget Sony forever if nikon went full frame mirrorless for the f mount.
has the 'short flange distance' helped with keeping the 35/1.4 and 90 macro 'small' ?
the advantage of accepting the f-mount lens system is OBVIOUS - there are hundreds of lenses, dozens to suit every style, budget, etc.
the advantage of mirrorless for Nikon would also be EVF (once it improves) and all of the associated advantages.
frankly, I don't have time to go into all of the advantages of users of the f-mount system, if it's not obvious to you, it's not worth detailing.
I personally think they only reason they haven't is b/c EVF technology is still too far behind to compete with OVF (as far as refresh and a few other things - note that Sony's response so far in the a6000 was to lower the resolution so they could refresh it faster).
I can see why Nikon may not have as all the components aren't yet up to dslr standard, and they may not want to release a full frame mirrorless before its ready for prime time - but releasing a consumer level full frame mirrorless to show they're headed in that direction may be a good idea to keep the Nikon faithful from defecting to sony (and selling their f-mount lens collection).
Mar 22, 2015 at 10:47 AM
p.8 #8A7rII rumour
jhinkey wrote:
The right way (according to me) to do it would be to make a new F mount that had a much shorter registration distance (and maybe even larger diameter) and start a new lens lineup, BUT they need to have an adapter that will allow FULL functionality of existing AFS lenses (and maybe D lenses, but I suspect not) that are optimized for PDAF and have PDAF on the sensor. This then keeps their current Nikon folks happy and allows for all the mirrorless advantages both on the body and lens side of things. And more importantly it keeps customers,...Show more →
i love the idea of Nikon creating a new mount with larger diameter and shorter flange distance with an adapter to accept all f-mount lenses with FULL AFS functionality - working with an OSPDAF (not some odd looking adapter that Sony uses for the A-mount AF functionality)
The right way (according to me) to do it would be to make a new F mount that had a much shorter registration distance (and maybe even larger diameter) and start a new lens lineup, BUT they need to have an adapter that will allow FULL functionality of existing AFS lenses (and maybe D lenses, but I suspect not) that are optimized for PDAF and have PDAF on the sensor. This then keeps their current Nikon folks happy and allows for all the mirrorless advantages both on the body and lens side of things. And more importantly it keeps customers,...Show more →
i love the idea of Nikon creating a new mount with larger diameter and shorter flange distance with an adapter to accept all f-mount lenses with FULL AFS functionality - working with an OSPDAF (not some odd looking adapter that Sony uses for the A-mount AF functionality)
Mar 22, 2015 at 10:56 AM
p.8 #9A7rII rumour
ecarlino wrote:
Exactly right and well said, it's pointless to think "pros" will adopt a mount for the camera's features if the lenses aren't there.
Furthermore, most of the features we are all waiting for (each of us with our own subset) are widely found on dslr bodies.
There are certain advantages that make putting up with being an early adopter worthwhile but it will be nice in another generation or three when the mirrorless bodies lack nothing compared to dslr and the lens lineup is broader.
Still wondering why nikon hasn't simply released an f mount mirrorless body to show everyone it's possible to have mirrorless and a great lens lineup and prevent any switching away to other brands. It seems their time is running out.
I'm really excited about the a7r2 and a9 announcements but would forget Sony forever if nikon went full frame mirrorless for the f mount.Why would Nikon put out a mirrorless camera (like Pentax did) with a long flange to accept F lenses? There is no advantage. They will need to put out a whole different lens line (and be way behind Sony). The Nikon 1 is their answer to the Sony E mount and we know how successful that has been. Just wishing for something is not realizing the R&D that goes into Sony's cameras which Nikon can not duplicate.has the 'short flange distance' helped with keeping the 35/1.4 and 90 macro 'small' ?
the advantage of accepting the f-mount lens system is OBVIOUS - there are hundreds of lenses, dozens to suit every style, budget, etc.
the advantage of mirrorless for Nikon would also be EVF (once it improves) and all of the associated advantages.
frankly, I don't have time to go into all of the advantages of users of the f-mount system, if it's not obvious to you, it's not worth detailing.
I personally think they only reason they haven't is b/c EVF technology is still too far behind to compete...Show more →
The F series lenses are designed for offsite phase detection and are not optimized for mirrorless camera's AF which are sensor based. Sony got around this by using slt adapters in its E mount and thus AF works with A mount lenses (comparable to F mount). It would be difficult to put in a flapping mirror in a Nikon adapter. Sony designs its camera as a system, not just an add on.
mogul wrote
ecarlino wrote
picboy wrote
Sports guys don't need or want 36MP or 50MP. Low light is way more important as is world class AF. Btw, Canon sells quite a few of the big white lenses. Sony's doesn't have the complete line at competitive prices, so it doesn't matter what body they bring out. No lens line up=No pro user sales.Furthermore, most of the features we are all waiting for (each of us with our own subset) are widely found on dslr bodies.
There are certain advantages that make putting up with being an early adopter worthwhile but it will be nice in another generation or three when the mirrorless bodies lack nothing compared to dslr and the lens lineup is broader.
Still wondering why nikon hasn't simply released an f mount mirrorless body to show everyone it's possible to have mirrorless and a great lens lineup and prevent any switching away to other brands. It seems their time is running out.
I'm really excited about the a7r2 and a9 announcements but would forget Sony forever if nikon went full frame mirrorless for the f mount.
the advantage of accepting the f-mount lens system is OBVIOUS - there are hundreds of lenses, dozens to suit every style, budget, etc.
the advantage of mirrorless for Nikon would also be EVF (once it improves) and all of the associated advantages.
frankly, I don't have time to go into all of the advantages of users of the f-mount system, if it's not obvious to you, it's not worth detailing.
I personally think they only reason they haven't is b/c EVF technology is still too far behind to compete...Show more →
The F series lenses are designed for offsite phase detection and are not optimized for mirrorless camera's AF which are sensor based. Sony got around this by using slt adapters in its E mount and thus AF works with A mount lenses (comparable to F mount). It would be difficult to put in a flapping mirror in a Nikon adapter. Sony designs its camera as a system, not just an add on.
Mar 22, 2015 at 10:58 AM
p.8 #10A7rII rumour
jhinkey wrote:
OK, let's pick this apart one sentence at a time:
"Why would Nikon put out a mirrorless camera (like Pentax did) with a long flange to accept F lenses? There is no advantage."
Well, Nikon has a huge lens base that goes way back to the 1960s or so of F mount lenses that Sony never had. You could get a lot of mirrorless advantages just by swapping out the mirror + OVF and going mirrorless + EVF and Nikon would only need to have PDAF on chip to do this so that their AF lenses would still work as intended. There...Show more →
It really cracked me up that you bring up shutters (only 2 common makers of shutters, neither Sony or Nikon), Nikon uses a mechanized shutter (fitted with a zerk fitting
) that is only good to 1/4000 in most of their cameras. The electro-magnetic 1/8000 is reserved for the top 2 camera lines while that is common to Sony cameras (Copal shutters).
mogul wrote
Why would Nikon put out a mirrorless camera (like Pentax did) with a long flange to accept F lenses? There is no advantage. They will need to put out a whole different lens line (and be way behind Sony). The Nikon 1 is their answer to the Sony E mount and we know how successful that has been. Just wishing for something is not realizing the R&D that goes into Sony's cameras which Nikon can not duplicate."Why would Nikon put out a mirrorless camera (like Pentax did) with a long flange to accept F lenses? There is no advantage."
Well, Nikon has a huge lens base that goes way back to the 1960s or so of F mount lenses that Sony never had. You could get a lot of mirrorless advantages just by swapping out the mirror + OVF and going mirrorless + EVF and Nikon would only need to have PDAF on chip to do this so that their AF lenses would still work as intended. There...Show more →
It really cracked me up that you bring up shutters (only 2 common makers of shutters, neither Sony or Nikon), Nikon uses a mechanized shutter (fitted with a zerk fitting
) that is only good to 1/4000 in most of their cameras. The electro-magnetic 1/8000 is reserved for the top 2 camera lines while that is common to Sony cameras (Copal shutters).Mar 22, 2015 at 11:12 AM
p.8 #11A7rII rumour
In no way will Nikon give up on the F mount any time soon.
EBH
EBH
Mar 22, 2015 at 02:18 PM
p.8 #12A7rII rumour
mogul wrote:
Exactly right and well said, it's pointless to think "pros" will adopt a mount for the camera's features if the lenses aren't there.
Furthermore, most of the features we are all waiting for (each of us with our own subset) are widely found on dslr bodies.
There are certain advantages that make putting up with being an early adopter worthwhile but it will be nice in another generation or three when the mirrorless bodies lack nothing compared to dslr and the lens lineup is broader.
Still wondering why nikon hasn't simply released an f mount mirrorless body to show everyone it's possible to have mirrorless and a great lens lineup and prevent any switching away to other brands. It seems their time is running out.
I'm really excited about the a7r2 and a9 announcements but would forget Sony forever if nikon went full frame mirrorless for the f mount.Why would Nikon put out a mirrorless camera (like Pentax did) with a long flange to accept F lenses? There is no advantage. They will need to put out a whole different lens line (and be way behind Sony). The Nikon 1 is their answer to the Sony E mount and we know how successful that has been. Just wishing for something is not realizing the R&D that goes into Sony's cameras which Nikon can not duplicate.has the 'short flange distance' helped with keeping the 35/1.4 and 90 macro 'small' ?
the advantage of accepting the f-mount lens system is OBVIOUS - there are hundreds of lenses, dozens to suit every style, budget, etc.
the advantage of mirrorless for Nikon would also be EVF (once it improves) and all of the associated advantages.
frankly, I don't have time to go into all of the advantages of users of the f-mount system, if it's not obvious to you, it's not worth detailing.
I personally think they only reason they haven't is b/c EVF technology is still too far behind to compete with OVF (as far as refresh and a few other things - note that Sony's response so far in the a6000 was to lower the resolution so they could refresh it faster).
I can see why Nikon may not have as all the components aren't yet up to dslr standard, and they may not want to release a full frame mirrorless before its ready for prime time - but releasing a consumer level full frame mirrorless to show they're headed in that direction may be a good idea to keep the Nikon faithful from defecting to sony (and selling their f-mount lens collection).The F series lenses are designed for offsite phase detection and are not optimized for mirrorless camera's AF which are sensor based. Sony got around this by using slt adapters in its E mount and thus AF works with A mount lenses (comparable to F mount). It would be difficult to put in a flapping mirror in a Nikon adapter. Sony designs its camera as a system, not just an add on.
Nikon would have to have sensor-base PDAF in order for any of their current FX/DX lenses to work well at all. This is the same as in the m43 system - the Oly EM1 has on-sensor phase detect and the original 43 lenses work really really well with that - they work really really poorly without that. On-sensor PDAF technology exists and works well, though perhaps not well enough for Nikon's pro customers that demand fast AF tracking. For those of us NIkon customers who don't need fast (or any) AF tracking on-sensor PDAF at least gets rid of the back/front focusing, etc. problems that I've always had to deal with on my Nikon bodies (at least it SHOULD take care of the current DSLR AF problems).
ecarlino wrote
mogul wrote
ecarlino wrote
picboy wrote
Sports guys don't need or want 36MP or 50MP. Low light is way more important as is world class AF. Btw, Canon sells quite a few of the big white lenses. Sony's doesn't have the complete line at competitive prices, so it doesn't matter what body they bring out. No lens line up=No pro user sales.Furthermore, most of the features we are all waiting for (each of us with our own subset) are widely found on dslr bodies.
There are certain advantages that make putting up with being an early adopter worthwhile but it will be nice in another generation or three when the mirrorless bodies lack nothing compared to dslr and the lens lineup is broader.
Still wondering why nikon hasn't simply released an f mount mirrorless body to show everyone it's possible to have mirrorless and a great lens lineup and prevent any switching away to other brands. It seems their time is running out.
I'm really excited about the a7r2 and a9 announcements but would forget Sony forever if nikon went full frame mirrorless for the f mount.
the advantage of accepting the f-mount lens system is OBVIOUS - there are hundreds of lenses, dozens to suit every style, budget, etc.
the advantage of mirrorless for Nikon would also be EVF (once it improves) and all of the associated advantages.
frankly, I don't have time to go into all of the advantages of users of the f-mount system, if it's not obvious to you, it's not worth detailing.
I personally think they only reason they haven't is b/c EVF technology is still too far behind to compete with OVF (as far as refresh and a few other things - note that Sony's response so far in the a6000 was to lower the resolution so they could refresh it faster).
I can see why Nikon may not have as all the components aren't yet up to dslr standard, and they may not want to release a full frame mirrorless before its ready for prime time - but releasing a consumer level full frame mirrorless to show they're headed in that direction may be a good idea to keep the Nikon faithful from defecting to sony (and selling their f-mount lens collection).
Nikon would have to have sensor-base PDAF in order for any of their current FX/DX lenses to work well at all. This is the same as in the m43 system - the Oly EM1 has on-sensor phase detect and the original 43 lenses work really really well with that - they work really really poorly without that. On-sensor PDAF technology exists and works well, though perhaps not well enough for Nikon's pro customers that demand fast AF tracking. For those of us NIkon customers who don't need fast (or any) AF tracking on-sensor PDAF at least gets rid of the back/front focusing, etc. problems that I've always had to deal with on my Nikon bodies (at least it SHOULD take care of the current DSLR AF problems).
Mar 22, 2015 at 02:29 PM
p.8 #13A7rII rumour
mogul wrote:
OK, let's pick this apart one sentence at a time:
"Why would Nikon put out a mirrorless camera (like Pentax did) with a long flange to accept F lenses? There is no advantage."
Well, Nikon has a huge lens base that goes way back to the 1960s or so of F mount lenses that Sony never had. You could get a lot of mirrorless advantages just by swapping out the mirror + OVF and going mirrorless + EVF and Nikon would only need to have PDAF on chip to do this so that their AF lenses would still work as intended. There likely would be many people that would buy this camera, but it could not use any future short flange lens line that Nikon might go to.
"They will need to put out a whole different lens line (and be way behind Sony)"
First Sony is not that far ahead in native EF mount lenses, and second, I suspect Nikon could catch up really fast if they wanted to.
"The Nikon 1 is their answer to the Sony E mount and we know how successful that has been."
The Nikon 1 was definitely NOT Nikon's answer to the E mount and it has been crippled by catering the to the point and shoot crowd as opposed to the more enthusiast crowd and never had any intentions of being any where near a pro-type of system whereas the Sony EF mount has that capability and likely Sony is taking it there.
"Just wishing for something is not realizing the R&D that goes into Sony's cameras which Nikon can not duplicate."
Just what exactly do think Nikon can't duplicate? I think Sony's advantage is in the ability to get the body size down (miniaturization/mass production), but they are far behind Nikon in things like shutters, electronics, lenses/optics, camera software, ergonomics, etc., etc. that make up a camera system.
If Nikon were smart they would have this all figured out - i.e., a full frame mirrorless plan - and are just deciding when/if to pull the trigger on starting a mirrorless camera line.
The right way (according to me) to do it would be to make a new F mount that had a much shorter registration distance (and maybe even larger diameter) and start a new lens lineup, BUT they need to have an adapter that will allow FULL functionality of existing AFS lenses (and maybe D lenses, but I suspect not) that are optimized for PDAF and have PDAF on the sensor. This then keeps their current Nikon folks happy and allows for all the mirrorless advantages both on the body and lens side of things. And more importantly it keeps customers, like me who have already bought m43 and Sony mirrorless systems, from bleeding away.It really cracked me up that you bring up shutters (only 2 common makers of shutters, neither Sony or Nikon), Nikon uses a mechanized shutter (fitted with a zerk fitting ) that is only good to 1/4000 in most of their cameras. The electro-magnetic 1/8000 is reserved for the top 2 camera lines while that is common to Sony cameras (Copal shutters).
Yeah, perhaps I blew that one, but the shutter in my A7r is so loud, lagging, etc. compared to any other camera I've owned. Granted my m43 cameras have shutters half the size, but they seem so much better - by a large large amount that it seems Sony did not put much work into it (or perhaps did not pay the shutter manufacturer to put a lot of development work into it) to make it less jarring and less noisy than it is.
jhinkey wrote
mogul wrote
Why would Nikon put out a mirrorless camera (like Pentax did) with a long flange to accept F lenses? There is no advantage. They will need to put out a whole different lens line (and be way behind Sony). The Nikon 1 is their answer to the Sony E mount and we know how successful that has been. Just wishing for something is not realizing the R&D that goes into Sony's cameras which Nikon can not duplicate."Why would Nikon put out a mirrorless camera (like Pentax did) with a long flange to accept F lenses? There is no advantage."
Well, Nikon has a huge lens base that goes way back to the 1960s or so of F mount lenses that Sony never had. You could get a lot of mirrorless advantages just by swapping out the mirror + OVF and going mirrorless + EVF and Nikon would only need to have PDAF on chip to do this so that their AF lenses would still work as intended. There likely would be many people that would buy this camera, but it could not use any future short flange lens line that Nikon might go to.
"They will need to put out a whole different lens line (and be way behind Sony)"
First Sony is not that far ahead in native EF mount lenses, and second, I suspect Nikon could catch up really fast if they wanted to.
"The Nikon 1 is their answer to the Sony E mount and we know how successful that has been."
The Nikon 1 was definitely NOT Nikon's answer to the E mount and it has been crippled by catering the to the point and shoot crowd as opposed to the more enthusiast crowd and never had any intentions of being any where near a pro-type of system whereas the Sony EF mount has that capability and likely Sony is taking it there.
"Just wishing for something is not realizing the R&D that goes into Sony's cameras which Nikon can not duplicate."
Just what exactly do think Nikon can't duplicate? I think Sony's advantage is in the ability to get the body size down (miniaturization/mass production), but they are far behind Nikon in things like shutters, electronics, lenses/optics, camera software, ergonomics, etc., etc. that make up a camera system.
If Nikon were smart they would have this all figured out - i.e., a full frame mirrorless plan - and are just deciding when/if to pull the trigger on starting a mirrorless camera line.
The right way (according to me) to do it would be to make a new F mount that had a much shorter registration distance (and maybe even larger diameter) and start a new lens lineup, BUT they need to have an adapter that will allow FULL functionality of existing AFS lenses (and maybe D lenses, but I suspect not) that are optimized for PDAF and have PDAF on the sensor. This then keeps their current Nikon folks happy and allows for all the mirrorless advantages both on the body and lens side of things. And more importantly it keeps customers, like me who have already bought m43 and Sony mirrorless systems, from bleeding away.
) that is only good to 1/4000 in most of their cameras. The electro-magnetic 1/8000 is reserved for the top 2 camera lines while that is common to Sony cameras (Copal shutters).Yeah, perhaps I blew that one, but the shutter in my A7r is so loud, lagging, etc. compared to any other camera I've owned. Granted my m43 cameras have shutters half the size, but they seem so much better - by a large large amount that it seems Sony did not put much work into it (or perhaps did not pay the shutter manufacturer to put a lot of development work into it) to make it less jarring and less noisy than it is.
Mar 22, 2015 at 02:39 PM
p.8 #14A7rII rumour
FWIW, your m43 cameras have a shutter that is 1/4 the size.
Mar 22, 2015 at 02:46 PM
p.8 #15A7rII rumour
arduluth wrote:
FWIW, your m43 cameras have a shutter that is 1/4 the size.
Well, I figure the shutter has ~half the distance to travel (actually ~48%), which is likely the biggest advantage they have. Having ~half (actually 54%) the width helps too
Edited on Mar 22, 2015 at 03:57 PM · View previous versions
FWIW, your m43 cameras have a shutter that is 1/4 the size.
Well, I figure the shutter has ~half the distance to travel (actually ~48%), which is likely the biggest advantage they have. Having ~half (actually 54%) the width helps too
Edited on Mar 22, 2015 at 03:57 PM · View previous versions
Mar 22, 2015 at 03:43 PM
p.8 #16A7rII rumour
jhinkey wrote:
Well, I figure the shutter has ~HALF the distance to travel (actually ~60%), which is likely the biggest advantage they have. Having 2/3rds (actually 68%) the width helps too
I have a film 110 camera (same size as micro 4/3) and it is whisper quiet and has a flapping mirror also. It was a great little camera for spying (comment made in France). That dslr was the Pentax auto 110.
arduluth wrote
FWIW, your m43 cameras have a shutter that is 1/4 the size.I have a film 110 camera (same size as micro 4/3) and it is whisper quiet and has a flapping mirror also. It was a great little camera for spying (comment made in France). That dslr was the Pentax auto 110.
Mar 22, 2015 at 03:50 PM
p.8 #17A7rII rumour
mogul wrote:
Why would Nikon put out a mirrorless camera (like Pentax did) with a long flange to accept F lenses? There is no advantage.
There are some advantages (some reduction in weight and cost, EVFs have some advantages over OVFs), but it's a somewhat strange halfway house, and it's a difficult to sell to customers - short flange distance and smaller lenses is still a selling point even if it's not always realised.
However Nikon and Canon both have similar fairly conservative approaches, they wont take the risk on a new type of product right now, it's up to other manufacturers to take risks and float trial balloons, like Pentax's mirrorless K-mount camera.
Edited on Mar 23, 2015 at 04:26 AM · View previous versions
Why would Nikon put out a mirrorless camera (like Pentax did) with a long flange to accept F lenses? There is no advantage.
There are some advantages (some reduction in weight and cost, EVFs have some advantages over OVFs), but it's a somewhat strange halfway house, and it's a difficult to sell to customers - short flange distance and smaller lenses is still a selling point even if it's not always realised.
However Nikon and Canon both have similar fairly conservative approaches, they wont take the risk on a new type of product right now, it's up to other manufacturers to take risks and float trial balloons, like Pentax's mirrorless K-mount camera.
Edited on Mar 23, 2015 at 04:26 AM · View previous versions
Mar 22, 2015 at 05:41 PM
p.8 #18A7rII rumour
mogul wrote:
I have a film 110 camera (same size as micro 4/3) and it is whisper quiet and has a flapping mirror also. It was a great little camera for spying (comment made in France). That dslr was the Pentax auto 110.
It's an SLR, not a DSLR. No D if it uses film.
I have a film 110 camera (same size as micro 4/3) and it is whisper quiet and has a flapping mirror also. It was a great little camera for spying (comment made in France). That dslr was the Pentax auto 110.
It's an SLR, not a DSLR. No D if it uses film.
Mar 22, 2015 at 10:56 PM
p.8 #19A7rII rumour
Just noticed that SAR updated their site saying that the release date isn't so close after all, just sometime this year ... still a 50MP sensor though (not 36MP in a an A7II body).
Just remember it's a rumor website
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-a-correction-and-a-confirmation-about-the-sony-50mp-camera/
Just remember it's a rumor website
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-a-correction-and-a-confirmation-about-the-sony-50mp-camera/
Mar 23, 2015 at 01:05 PM