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Archive 2015A7rII rumour
p.2 #1A7rII rumour
Yeah, I could really see Sony going either way (make the A7rII the super-megapixel monster, or keep it at 36Mpx and put the highest rez sensor in the A9 flagship).
My hunch would be that Sony would reserve the highest-resolution sensor for their flagship, it just seems in line with Sony product strategy. But, they would only do that (sensibly) if they could make it work with IBIS and EFCS and their fastest AF. An A9 that lacked any of those three things would be a mistake, IMO.
My hunch would be that Sony would reserve the highest-resolution sensor for their flagship, it just seems in line with Sony product strategy. But, they would only do that (sensibly) if they could make it work with IBIS and EFCS and their fastest AF. An A9 that lacked any of those three things would be a mistake, IMO.
Mar 18, 2015 at 10:56 AM
p.2 #2A7rII rumour
ecarlino wrote:
I'm not so sure, the trend has been for the flagship models from Canon and Nikon to have prioritised frame-rate and AF over resolution whilst the highest resolution sensors have been in smaller lower spec bodies. I don't see why Sony would be different, a small 50MP with slow frame-rate and modest AF makes more sense to me than a large, robust weather sealed pro oriented body, with a slow frame-rate and modest AF.
edit: whilst I was typing Darbo made a near identical post!I've said this before on other threads, so sorry for repeating myself - but it's in response to the repeated statements that the high MP cameras from other brands don't sport their brand's fastest AF, etc.
let's not forget that Sony a7 series cameras have very very poor AF and continuous shooting RELATIVELY speaking (so let's not start flaming me over this) compared to DSLR and there is A LOT OF ROOM for improvement - so the a7r2 could have a big improvement in AF (and a lot of other things) and still leave room for improvement.
I'm using an a7ii right...Show more →
Agree 100%. This is why I still have a canon body and basically adapt canon lenses. I shoot wildlife and need working AF. I haven't used a a6000, but my guess is even that AF is not very good compared to DSLRs.
Please note, I'm not bashing the A7 series. I love everything about it. In some sense, I'd rather Sony just keep it good at what it does, get the AF up to a level where it works for family events, and leave it be. If they end up with a 900-1000g body, I might as well get a Nikon D810.
Chris
Matt Grum wrote
ecarlino wrote
SAR mentions that this is NOT the 'PRO' model - probably to temper the expectation of 50 MP in this camera.retrofocus wrote
The full hoped for feature-package with 50 MP sensor might only arrive in the A9.edit: whilst I was typing Darbo made a near identical post!
let's not forget that Sony a7 series cameras have very very poor AF and continuous shooting RELATIVELY speaking (so let's not start flaming me over this) compared to DSLR and there is A LOT OF ROOM for improvement - so the a7r2 could have a big improvement in AF (and a lot of other things) and still leave room for improvement.
I'm using an a7ii right...Show more →
Agree 100%. This is why I still have a canon body and basically adapt canon lenses. I shoot wildlife and need working AF. I haven't used a a6000, but my guess is even that AF is not very good compared to DSLRs.
Please note, I'm not bashing the A7 series. I love everything about it. In some sense, I'd rather Sony just keep it good at what it does, get the AF up to a level where it works for family events, and leave it be. If they end up with a 900-1000g body, I might as well get a Nikon D810.
Chris
Mar 18, 2015 at 10:58 AM
p.2 #3A7rII rumour
All I know for sure is that I want a 50 MP Sony mirrorless camera. 
Whether it's the a9 or a7R II, I don't know that I care.
Surely we hope that Sony has designed their last camera without an EFCS (a7R) don't we? Is there a solid reason for wanting a camera to not have an EFCS?
Whether it's the a9 or a7R II, I don't know that I care. Surely we hope that Sony has designed their last camera without an EFCS (a7R) don't we? Is there a solid reason for wanting a camera to not have an EFCS?
Mar 18, 2015 at 11:00 AM
p.2 #4A7rII rumour
Taylor Sherman wrote:
Yeah, I could really see Sony going either way (make the A7rII the super-megapixel monster, or keep it at 36Mpx and put the highest rez sensor in the A9 flagship).
Given Sony's apparent propensity for having as many camera bodies as lenses in the e-mount system, I would expect to see an A7R II, A7S II, and an A9 all announced this year.
Yeah, I could really see Sony going either way (make the A7rII the super-megapixel monster, or keep it at 36Mpx and put the highest rez sensor in the A9 flagship).
Given Sony's apparent propensity for having as many camera bodies as lenses in the e-mount system, I would expect to see an A7R II, A7S II, and an A9 all announced this year.
Mar 18, 2015 at 11:10 AM
p.2 #5A7rII rumour
ecarlino wrote:
I've said this before on other threads, so sorry for repeating myself - but it's in response to the repeated statements that the high MP cameras from other brands don't sport their brand's fastest AF, etc.
....
AF is no longer the main differentiator between "Pro" and Non-Pro bodies for Canikon. Canon includes its top of the line "Pro" AF module in 5D3 and so does Nikon in D800/D810. It is really the frame rate, buffer depth and the ruggedness which define the 1DX/D4s style bodies. It requires much more processing to support 10FPS at say 50MP vs 18MPs. Similarly you need a significantly larger buffer to support a burst of 70 50MP raw files vs 70 16MP RAW files. So it makes sense they go for lower resolutions in those high-performance bodies.
You don't need 10FPS shooting in the studio or for landscape - two of the most typical applications of high resolution cameras. So now that D810/5DIII/5Ds include the top of the line AF, Nikon / Canon seem to have decided that there is no longer a need for dedicated high resolution "Pro" bodies like D3X or 1DsIII, and that makes sense.
So the question that remains to be answered is whether Sony's vision of a Pro body would be like D4/1Dx, or will it be 5D3/D810/5Ds, or will they throw the kitchen sink at it and go for a 50MP body at 10FPS with a buffer to match?
I've said this before on other threads, so sorry for repeating myself - but it's in response to the repeated statements that the high MP cameras from other brands don't sport their brand's fastest AF, etc.
....
AF is no longer the main differentiator between "Pro" and Non-Pro bodies for Canikon. Canon includes its top of the line "Pro" AF module in 5D3 and so does Nikon in D800/D810. It is really the frame rate, buffer depth and the ruggedness which define the 1DX/D4s style bodies. It requires much more processing to support 10FPS at say 50MP vs 18MPs. Similarly you need a significantly larger buffer to support a burst of 70 50MP raw files vs 70 16MP RAW files. So it makes sense they go for lower resolutions in those high-performance bodies.
You don't need 10FPS shooting in the studio or for landscape - two of the most typical applications of high resolution cameras. So now that D810/5DIII/5Ds include the top of the line AF, Nikon / Canon seem to have decided that there is no longer a need for dedicated high resolution "Pro" bodies like D3X or 1DsIII, and that makes sense.
So the question that remains to be answered is whether Sony's vision of a Pro body would be like D4/1Dx, or will it be 5D3/D810/5Ds, or will they throw the kitchen sink at it and go for a 50MP body at 10FPS with a buffer to match?
Mar 18, 2015 at 11:38 AM
p.2 #6A7rII rumour
If the A7RII has the A7II implementation of IBIS and ergonomics/build, plus EFCS and keeps AA-less 36MP then I'm all in. I'll take a very slightly chunkier and a bit heavier body in trade for those great additions.
Mar 18, 2015 at 11:55 AM
p.2 #7A7rII rumour
jhinkey wrote:
If the A7RII has the A7II implementation of IBIS and ergonomics/build, plus EFCS and keeps AA-less 36MP then I'm all in. I'll take a very slightly chunkier and a bit heavier body in trade for those great additions.
Me too - especially so if they've solved the sensor flare issue.
If the A7RII has the A7II implementation of IBIS and ergonomics/build, plus EFCS and keeps AA-less 36MP then I'm all in. I'll take a very slightly chunkier and a bit heavier body in trade for those great additions.
Me too - especially so if they've solved the sensor flare issue.
Mar 18, 2015 at 12:59 PM
p.2 #8A7rII rumour
Matt Grum wrote:
I'm not so sure, the trend has been for the flagship models from Canon and Nikon to have prioritised frame-rate and AF over resolution whilst the highest resolution sensors have been in smaller lower spec bodies. I don't see why Sony would be different, a small 50MP with slow frame-rate and modest AF makes more sense to me than a large, robust weather sealed pro oriented body, with a slow frame-rate and modest AF.
edit: whilst I was typing Darbo made a near identical post!
This can very well be the case, but I am really hoping that Sony doesn't copy how for example Canon does it with their cameras. Sony did things differently so far by releasing different A7 cameras for different needs, and I hope they continue doing so and that they don't just become followers to other brands (which have questionable success with their overpriced pro line brick cameras). I am with chez here - for an upgrade I simply like a "pro" body which focuses on a better sensor but also contains other peripheral improvements.
ecarlino wrote
SAR mentions that this is NOT the 'PRO' model - probably to temper the expectation of 50 MP in this camera.retrofocus wrote
The full hoped for feature-package with 50 MP sensor might only arrive in the A9.edit: whilst I was typing Darbo made a near identical post!
This can very well be the case, but I am really hoping that Sony doesn't copy how for example Canon does it with their cameras. Sony did things differently so far by releasing different A7 cameras for different needs, and I hope they continue doing so and that they don't just become followers to other brands (which have questionable success with their overpriced pro line brick cameras). I am with chez here - for an upgrade I simply like a "pro" body which focuses on a better sensor but also contains other peripheral improvements.
Mar 18, 2015 at 01:07 PM
p.2 #9A7rII rumour
Taylor Sherman wrote:
Yeah, I could really see Sony going either way (make the A7rII the super-megapixel monster, or keep it at 36Mpx and put the highest rez sensor in the A9 flagship).
My hunch would be that Sony would reserve the highest-resolution sensor for their flagship, it just seems in line with Sony product strategy. But, they would only do that (sensibly) if they could make it work with IBIS and EFCS and their fastest AF. An A9 that lacked any of those three things would be a mistake, IMO.
I rather like to see 50 MP FF sensor with improved DR than any of the other peripheral changes like IBIS, EFCS, AF in a pro body. Depends how Sony defines "pro" - if they go like Canon after the event/wedding/sports shooter market with such camera, then it is unlikely that it will be a high MP sensor and focus more on tasks which you mentioned above. I personally hope the definition is more along the lines of Nikon with their D810 series....powerful sensor but less fps for example.
Yeah, I could really see Sony going either way (make the A7rII the super-megapixel monster, or keep it at 36Mpx and put the highest rez sensor in the A9 flagship).
My hunch would be that Sony would reserve the highest-resolution sensor for their flagship, it just seems in line with Sony product strategy. But, they would only do that (sensibly) if they could make it work with IBIS and EFCS and their fastest AF. An A9 that lacked any of those three things would be a mistake, IMO.
I rather like to see 50 MP FF sensor with improved DR than any of the other peripheral changes like IBIS, EFCS, AF in a pro body. Depends how Sony defines "pro" - if they go like Canon after the event/wedding/sports shooter market with such camera, then it is unlikely that it will be a high MP sensor and focus more on tasks which you mentioned above. I personally hope the definition is more along the lines of Nikon with their D810 series....powerful sensor but less fps for example.
Mar 18, 2015 at 01:12 PM
p.2 #10A7rII rumour
ecarlino wrote:
I'm not so sure, the trend has been for the flagship models from Canon and Nikon to have prioritised frame-rate and AF over resolution whilst the highest resolution sensors have been in smaller lower spec bodies. I don't see why Sony would be different, a small 50MP with slow frame-rate and modest AF makes more sense to me than a large, robust weather sealed pro oriented body, with a slow frame-rate and modest AF.
edit: whilst I was typing Darbo made a near identical post!I've said this before on other threads, so sorry for repeating myself - but it's in response to the repeated statements that the high MP cameras from other brands don't sport their brand's fastest AF, etc.
let's not forget that Sony a7 series cameras have very very poor AF and continuous shooting RELATIVELY speaking (so let's not start flaming me over this) compared to DSLR and there is A LOT OF ROOM for improvement - so the a7r2 could have a big improvement in AF (and a lot of other things) and still leave room for improvement.
I'm using an a7ii right...Show more →
+ I don't even use the continuous shooting mode on my A7R, single frame is fine for me
+ I don't use AF with my A7R
+ After taking about 6000 photos with my A7R, I still need to see an issue with the viewfinder (shot day&night). I consider the EVF much better than the viewfinder on the 5D MkII/III bodies which I can use as comparison.
+ I could see full electronic shutter and IBIS as good camera improvements, but it is not a must for me either.
+ What it comes down to for me is simply - again - the sensor performance and overall camera size plus adaptability of third party MF lenses (--> thinner sensor stack).
Matt Grum wrote
ecarlino wrote
SAR mentions that this is NOT the 'PRO' model - probably to temper the expectation of 50 MP in this camera.retrofocus wrote
The full hoped for feature-package with 50 MP sensor might only arrive in the A9.edit: whilst I was typing Darbo made a near identical post!
let's not forget that Sony a7 series cameras have very very poor AF and continuous shooting RELATIVELY speaking (so let's not start flaming me over this) compared to DSLR and there is A LOT OF ROOM for improvement - so the a7r2 could have a big improvement in AF (and a lot of other things) and still leave room for improvement.
I'm using an a7ii right...Show more →
+ I don't even use the continuous shooting mode on my A7R, single frame is fine for me
+ I don't use AF with my A7R
+ After taking about 6000 photos with my A7R, I still need to see an issue with the viewfinder (shot day&night). I consider the EVF much better than the viewfinder on the 5D MkII/III bodies which I can use as comparison.
+ I could see full electronic shutter and IBIS as good camera improvements, but it is not a must for me either.
+ What it comes down to for me is simply - again - the sensor performance and overall camera size plus adaptability of third party MF lenses (--> thinner sensor stack).
Mar 18, 2015 at 01:20 PM
p.2 #11A7rII rumour
I think the resolution of the sensor will be interesting. I would hope they bump the resolution, perhaps to 46-48mp (as was rumored in January), with EFCS, and IBIS in the A7 II body. I doubt it will have lossless RAW, which will piss a lot of people off, but otherwise I think that would be a compelling package. If it just adds IBIS, the better ergonomics, and EFCS, many people will still want it, but it makes future upgrades more problematic (i.e., when the A7 II is upgraded it would be nice if it went to 36mp). Still slowing upgrades would not be a bad thing for Sony. It looks like all future FF bodies will have IBIS, maybe that will change if there is every an A5 series, but the A7 series and IBIS seem to go together.
Mar 18, 2015 at 01:47 PM
p.2 #12A7rII rumour
A nex-7 evf placement and lighter body would be the only things that would make me switch.
retrofocus wrote:
I'm not so sure, the trend has been for the flagship models from Canon and Nikon to have prioritised frame-rate and AF over resolution whilst the highest resolution sensors have been in smaller lower spec bodies. I don't see why Sony would be different, a small 50MP with slow frame-rate and modest AF makes more sense to me than a large, robust weather sealed pro oriented body, with a slow frame-rate and modest AF.
edit: whilst I was typing Darbo made a near identical post!I've said this before on other threads, so sorry for repeating myself - but it's in response to the repeated statements that the high MP cameras from other brands don't sport their brand's fastest AF, etc.
let's not forget that Sony a7 series cameras have very very poor AF and continuous shooting RELATIVELY speaking (so let's not start flaming me over this) compared to DSLR and there is A LOT OF ROOM for improvement - so the a7r2 could have a big improvement in AF (and a lot of other things) and still leave room for improvement.
I'm using an a7ii right now and can't believe how poor the viewfinder experience is with continuous shooting - how does anyone follow something that is moving around other than hoping and praying and guessing? because you certainly can't see anything when you hold the shutter down for a few seconds. And, yes - perhaps - compared to other mirrorless it's par for the course, but coming from a D800, it sucks. everything else w/ the a7ii and a7r have been fine to great, but there is a huge amount of room to get better on this.
I'm not even asking for D4 performance, but just to get the a7r up to D810 will probably be a few iterations, so each release needs to improve on AF and EVF, amongst other things.+ I don't even use the continuous shooting mode on my A7R, single frame is fine for me
+ I don't use AF with my A7R
+ After taking about 6000 photos with my A7R, I still need to see an issue with the viewfinder (shot day&night). I consider the EVF much better than the viewfinder on the 5D MkII/III bodies which I can use as comparison.
+ I could see full electronic shutter and IBIS as good camera improvements, but it is not a must for me either.
+ What it comes down to for me is simply - again - the...Show more →
retrofocus wrote:
ecarlino wrote
Matt Grum wrote
ecarlino wrote
SAR mentions that this is NOT the 'PRO' model - probably to temper the expectation of 50 MP in this camera.retrofocus wrote
The full hoped for feature-package with 50 MP sensor might only arrive in the A9.edit: whilst I was typing Darbo made a near identical post!
let's not forget that Sony a7 series cameras have very very poor AF and continuous shooting RELATIVELY speaking (so let's not start flaming me over this) compared to DSLR and there is A LOT OF ROOM for improvement - so the a7r2 could have a big improvement in AF (and a lot of other things) and still leave room for improvement.
I'm using an a7ii right now and can't believe how poor the viewfinder experience is with continuous shooting - how does anyone follow something that is moving around other than hoping and praying and guessing? because you certainly can't see anything when you hold the shutter down for a few seconds. And, yes - perhaps - compared to other mirrorless it's par for the course, but coming from a D800, it sucks. everything else w/ the a7ii and a7r have been fine to great, but there is a huge amount of room to get better on this.
I'm not even asking for D4 performance, but just to get the a7r up to D810 will probably be a few iterations, so each release needs to improve on AF and EVF, amongst other things.
+ I don't use AF with my A7R
+ After taking about 6000 photos with my A7R, I still need to see an issue with the viewfinder (shot day&night). I consider the EVF much better than the viewfinder on the 5D MkII/III bodies which I can use as comparison.
+ I could see full electronic shutter and IBIS as good camera improvements, but it is not a must for me either.
+ What it comes down to for me is simply - again - the...Show more →
Mar 18, 2015 at 03:01 PM
p.2 #13A7rII rumour
retrofocus wrote:
I'm not so sure, the trend has been for the flagship models from Canon and Nikon to have prioritised frame-rate and AF over resolution whilst the highest resolution sensors have been in smaller lower spec bodies. I don't see why Sony would be different, a small 50MP with slow frame-rate and modest AF makes more sense to me than a large, robust weather sealed pro oriented body, with a slow frame-rate and modest AF.
edit: whilst I was typing Darbo made a near identical post!I've said this before on other threads, so sorry for repeating myself - but it's in response to the repeated statements that the high MP cameras from other brands don't sport their brand's fastest AF, etc.
let's not forget that Sony a7 series cameras have very very poor AF and continuous shooting RELATIVELY speaking (so let's not start flaming me over this) compared to DSLR and there is A LOT OF ROOM for improvement - so the a7r2 could have a big improvement in AF (and a lot of other things) and still leave room for improvement.
I'm using an a7ii right now and can't believe how poor the viewfinder experience is with continuous shooting - how does anyone follow something that is moving around other than hoping and praying and guessing? because you certainly can't see anything when you hold the shutter down for a few seconds. And, yes - perhaps - compared to other mirrorless it's par for the course, but coming from a D800, it sucks. everything else w/ the a7ii and a7r have been fine to great, but there is a huge amount of room to get better on this.
I'm not even asking for D4 performance, but just to get the a7r up to D810 will probably be a few iterations, so each release needs to improve on AF and EVF, amongst other things.+ I don't even use the continuous shooting mode on my A7R, single frame is fine for me
+ I don't use AF with my A7R
+ After taking about 6000 photos with my A7R, I still need to see an issue with the viewfinder (shot day&night). I consider the EVF much better than the viewfinder on the 5D MkII/III bodies which I can use as comparison.
+ I could see full electronic shutter and IBIS as good camera improvements, but it is not a must for me either.
+ What it comes down to for me is simply - again - the...Show more →
I love when people post about all the things THEY don't use.
maybe someone will make a camera that is so specialized that only a few people will buy it - they'll love it - because it was made JUST for them - but because it's feature set was so specific it will cost a fortune because it only sold a few units.
ecarlino wrote
Matt Grum wrote
ecarlino wrote
SAR mentions that this is NOT the 'PRO' model - probably to temper the expectation of 50 MP in this camera.retrofocus wrote
The full hoped for feature-package with 50 MP sensor might only arrive in the A9.edit: whilst I was typing Darbo made a near identical post!
let's not forget that Sony a7 series cameras have very very poor AF and continuous shooting RELATIVELY speaking (so let's not start flaming me over this) compared to DSLR and there is A LOT OF ROOM for improvement - so the a7r2 could have a big improvement in AF (and a lot of other things) and still leave room for improvement.
I'm using an a7ii right now and can't believe how poor the viewfinder experience is with continuous shooting - how does anyone follow something that is moving around other than hoping and praying and guessing? because you certainly can't see anything when you hold the shutter down for a few seconds. And, yes - perhaps - compared to other mirrorless it's par for the course, but coming from a D800, it sucks. everything else w/ the a7ii and a7r have been fine to great, but there is a huge amount of room to get better on this.
I'm not even asking for D4 performance, but just to get the a7r up to D810 will probably be a few iterations, so each release needs to improve on AF and EVF, amongst other things.
+ I don't use AF with my A7R
+ After taking about 6000 photos with my A7R, I still need to see an issue with the viewfinder (shot day&night). I consider the EVF much better than the viewfinder on the 5D MkII/III bodies which I can use as comparison.
+ I could see full electronic shutter and IBIS as good camera improvements, but it is not a must for me either.
+ What it comes down to for me is simply - again - the...Show more →
I love when people post about all the things THEY don't use.
maybe someone will make a camera that is so specialized that only a few people will buy it - they'll love it - because it was made JUST for them - but because it's feature set was so specific it will cost a fortune because it only sold a few units.
Mar 18, 2015 at 03:09 PM
p.2 #14A7rII rumour
ecarlino wrote:
I'm not so sure, the trend has been for the flagship models from Canon and Nikon to have prioritised frame-rate and AF over resolution whilst the highest resolution sensors have been in smaller lower spec bodies. I don't see why Sony would be different, a small 50MP with slow frame-rate and modest AF makes more sense to me than a large, robust weather sealed pro oriented body, with a slow frame-rate and modest AF.
edit: whilst I was typing Darbo made a near identical post!I've said this before on other threads, so sorry for repeating myself - but it's in response to the repeated statements that the high MP cameras from other brands don't sport their brand's fastest AF, etc.
let's not forget that Sony a7 series cameras have very very poor AF and continuous shooting RELATIVELY speaking (so let's not start flaming me over this) compared to DSLR and there is A LOT OF ROOM for improvement - so the a7r2 could have a big improvement in AF (and a lot of other things) and still leave room for improvement.
I'm using an a7ii right now and can't believe how poor the viewfinder experience is with continuous shooting - how does anyone follow something that is moving around other than hoping and praying and guessing? because you certainly can't see anything when you hold the shutter down for a few seconds. And, yes - perhaps - compared to other mirrorless it's par for the course, but coming from a D800, it sucks. everything else w/ the a7ii and a7r have been fine to great, but there is a huge amount of room to get better on this.
I'm not even asking for D4 performance, but just to get the a7r up to D810 will probably be a few iterations, so each release needs to improve on AF and EVF, amongst other things.+ I don't even use the continuous shooting mode on my A7R, single frame is fine for me
+ I don't use AF with my A7R
+ After taking about 6000 photos with my A7R, I still need to see an issue with the viewfinder (shot day&night). I consider the EVF much better than the viewfinder on the 5D MkII/III bodies which I can use as comparison.
+ I could see full electronic shutter and IBIS as good camera improvements, but it is not a must for me either.
+ What it comes down to for me is simply - again - the sensor performance and overall camera size plus adaptability of third party MF lenses (--> thinner sensor stack).I love when people post about all the things THEY don't use.
maybe someone will make a camera that is so specialized that only a few people will buy it - they'll love it - because it was made JUST for them - but because it's feature set was so specific it will cost a fortune because it only sold a few units.
My point was that I personally have no need for a mirrorless camera which is able to perform periphery-wise (AF, fps, etc) like a DSLR body - I am sure at some point this will happen, but at this point I am fine with some minor camera compromises (at least for me they are minor!) for having the advantage of mounting all kind of MF lenses on it and getting excellent sensor performance in a small-sized body - and all much less pricey than a similar DSLR body sensor-wise. But I agree that everyone's needs are different - but if those periphery-based issues are so important, I would rather look at a decent DSLR from any brand currently than having high expectations in this matter from a mirrorless body.
Nikon already started to realize that some niches can be quite profitable - see the Nikon Df camera. High price tag because sales volume will be lower, but still a great idea and satisfies those who don't want to deal with too many functions. Leica is another example in general for a successful niche business. So yes, I would love to see if Sony goes more the niche route (maybe in addition to releasing generalized cameras to satisfy more money-bringing groups like event, wedding, and sports shooters) and releases similar to Leica for example a monochrome mirrorless camera. But as I see it at this point, it likely won't happen yet and Sony focuses on the "general" route.
Edited on Mar 18, 2015 at 03:52 PM · View previous versions
retrofocus wrote
ecarlino wrote
Matt Grum wrote
ecarlino wrote
SAR mentions that this is NOT the 'PRO' model - probably to temper the expectation of 50 MP in this camera.retrofocus wrote
The full hoped for feature-package with 50 MP sensor might only arrive in the A9.edit: whilst I was typing Darbo made a near identical post!
let's not forget that Sony a7 series cameras have very very poor AF and continuous shooting RELATIVELY speaking (so let's not start flaming me over this) compared to DSLR and there is A LOT OF ROOM for improvement - so the a7r2 could have a big improvement in AF (and a lot of other things) and still leave room for improvement.
I'm using an a7ii right now and can't believe how poor the viewfinder experience is with continuous shooting - how does anyone follow something that is moving around other than hoping and praying and guessing? because you certainly can't see anything when you hold the shutter down for a few seconds. And, yes - perhaps - compared to other mirrorless it's par for the course, but coming from a D800, it sucks. everything else w/ the a7ii and a7r have been fine to great, but there is a huge amount of room to get better on this.
I'm not even asking for D4 performance, but just to get the a7r up to D810 will probably be a few iterations, so each release needs to improve on AF and EVF, amongst other things.
+ I don't use AF with my A7R
+ After taking about 6000 photos with my A7R, I still need to see an issue with the viewfinder (shot day&night). I consider the EVF much better than the viewfinder on the 5D MkII/III bodies which I can use as comparison.
+ I could see full electronic shutter and IBIS as good camera improvements, but it is not a must for me either.
+ What it comes down to for me is simply - again - the sensor performance and overall camera size plus adaptability of third party MF lenses (--> thinner sensor stack).
maybe someone will make a camera that is so specialized that only a few people will buy it - they'll love it - because it was made JUST for them - but because it's feature set was so specific it will cost a fortune because it only sold a few units.
My point was that I personally have no need for a mirrorless camera which is able to perform periphery-wise (AF, fps, etc) like a DSLR body - I am sure at some point this will happen, but at this point I am fine with some minor camera compromises (at least for me they are minor!) for having the advantage of mounting all kind of MF lenses on it and getting excellent sensor performance in a small-sized body - and all much less pricey than a similar DSLR body sensor-wise. But I agree that everyone's needs are different - but if those periphery-based issues are so important, I would rather look at a decent DSLR from any brand currently than having high expectations in this matter from a mirrorless body.
Nikon already started to realize that some niches can be quite profitable - see the Nikon Df camera. High price tag because sales volume will be lower, but still a great idea and satisfies those who don't want to deal with too many functions. Leica is another example in general for a successful niche business. So yes, I would love to see if Sony goes more the niche route (maybe in addition to releasing generalized cameras to satisfy more money-bringing groups like event, wedding, and sports shooters) and releases similar to Leica for example a monochrome mirrorless camera. But as I see it at this point, it likely won't happen yet and Sony focuses on the "general" route.
Edited on Mar 18, 2015 at 03:52 PM · View previous versions
Mar 18, 2015 at 03:42 PM
p.2 #15A7rII rumour
My turn at the crystal ball. What do event pros absolutely need, and what would get their attention, with even C/N chasing this? Super sophisticated AF - they all said so in recent interviews. It's still much easier to move around small files and clients don't need huge files. That I believe will be the basis for the a9.
So my money (quite literally probably) will be on a high resolution a7r style model. The things some users want are niceties to many folks using one, but given depreciation might not be enough to swing many of them to a new body, if the now aging (!) sensor remains. A top end sensor with great performance will. D800/a7r - these cameras have a certain aura due simply to their resolving power. So the higher res sensor plus the a7II adjuncts is my bet. Many a7r owners will simply keep that one as a backup or second shooter, in that case.
This would leave room for Sony to beef up the pro release - dual slots, more rubberised stronger body, stronger accessories like grips, dedicated flashes and so on - to get pro C/N eyes on that one. It won't need to compete purely on small size/weight if it's good enough. This is the longer term project, the reason it is last to appear.
Many of the lenses seem to point that way - 70-200, 35/1.4, 90m, the video zoom. They know many a7/r/s users are committed to mid/high end legacy, and they need to fill out the light FE55 style and Loxia lenses over this year, but they are not pro choices - they are enthusiasts' choices.
A four tier system - video/low light a7s with its special zoom, a7 low cost system entry camera plus the 28mm/coverters, kit lens with more to come, a7r with FE55/35/Loxia, 'a9' with pro zooms and large primes (maybe more on/near release), all users can mix and match.
So my money (quite literally probably) will be on a high resolution a7r style model. The things some users want are niceties to many folks using one, but given depreciation might not be enough to swing many of them to a new body, if the now aging (!) sensor remains. A top end sensor with great performance will. D800/a7r - these cameras have a certain aura due simply to their resolving power. So the higher res sensor plus the a7II adjuncts is my bet. Many a7r owners will simply keep that one as a backup or second shooter, in that case.
This would leave room for Sony to beef up the pro release - dual slots, more rubberised stronger body, stronger accessories like grips, dedicated flashes and so on - to get pro C/N eyes on that one. It won't need to compete purely on small size/weight if it's good enough. This is the longer term project, the reason it is last to appear.
Many of the lenses seem to point that way - 70-200, 35/1.4, 90m, the video zoom. They know many a7/r/s users are committed to mid/high end legacy, and they need to fill out the light FE55 style and Loxia lenses over this year, but they are not pro choices - they are enthusiasts' choices.
A four tier system - video/low light a7s with its special zoom, a7 low cost system entry camera plus the 28mm/coverters, kit lens with more to come, a7r with FE55/35/Loxia, 'a9' with pro zooms and large primes (maybe more on/near release), all users can mix and match.
Mar 18, 2015 at 03:48 PM
p.2 #16A7rII rumour
philip_pj wrote:
My turn at the crystal ball. What do event pros absolutely need, and what would get their attention, with even C/N chasing this? Super sophisticated AF - they all said so in recent interviews. It's still much easier to move around small files and clients don't need huge files. That I believe will be the basis for the a9.
So my money (quite literally probably) will be on a high resolution a7r style model. The things some users want are niceties to many folks using one, but given depreciation might not be enough to swing many of them to a...Show more →
All correct from a technical point of view - but what would be the market driver for Sony to release all of those goodies you mention in a short time if there is (a) no or very limited competition in sight, (b) Sony just needs to defend the leadership position in which they are in currently. My gut feeling is that many will be disappointed when the real specs will be released especially when it comes to the sensor of the A7R II (I hope I will be wrong here!). Surely Sony will announce/give details to a new 50 MP sensor AFTER Canon will have finally released their future high MP DSLRs. This assumes of course that both an A7R II and later an A9 will be released in a short period of time in between - which I am not yet fully convinced about either.
My turn at the crystal ball. What do event pros absolutely need, and what would get their attention, with even C/N chasing this? Super sophisticated AF - they all said so in recent interviews. It's still much easier to move around small files and clients don't need huge files. That I believe will be the basis for the a9.
So my money (quite literally probably) will be on a high resolution a7r style model. The things some users want are niceties to many folks using one, but given depreciation might not be enough to swing many of them to a...Show more →
All correct from a technical point of view - but what would be the market driver for Sony to release all of those goodies you mention in a short time if there is (a) no or very limited competition in sight, (b) Sony just needs to defend the leadership position in which they are in currently. My gut feeling is that many will be disappointed when the real specs will be released especially when it comes to the sensor of the A7R II (I hope I will be wrong here!). Surely Sony will announce/give details to a new 50 MP sensor AFTER Canon will have finally released their future high MP DSLRs. This assumes of course that both an A7R II and later an A9 will be released in a short period of time in between - which I am not yet fully convinced about either.
Mar 18, 2015 at 03:57 PM
p.2 #17A7rII rumour
retrofocus wrote:
I'm not so sure, the trend has been for the flagship models from Canon and Nikon to have prioritised frame-rate and AF over resolution whilst the highest resolution sensors have been in smaller lower spec bodies. I don't see why Sony would be different, a small 50MP with slow frame-rate and modest AF makes more sense to me than a large, robust weather sealed pro oriented body, with a slow frame-rate and modest AF.
edit: whilst I was typing Darbo made a near identical post!I've said this before on other threads, so sorry for repeating myself - but it's in response to the repeated statements that the high MP cameras from other brands don't sport their brand's fastest AF, etc.
let's not forget that Sony a7 series cameras have very very poor AF and continuous shooting RELATIVELY speaking (so let's not start flaming me over this) compared to DSLR and there is A LOT OF ROOM for improvement - so the a7r2 could have a big improvement in AF (and a lot of other things) and still leave room for improvement.
I'm using an a7ii right now and can't believe how poor the viewfinder experience is with continuous shooting - how does anyone follow something that is moving around other than hoping and praying and guessing? because you certainly can't see anything when you hold the shutter down for a few seconds. And, yes - perhaps - compared to other mirrorless it's par for the course, but coming from a D800, it sucks. everything else w/ the a7ii and a7r have been fine to great, but there is a huge amount of room to get better on this.
I'm not even asking for D4 performance, but just to get the a7r up to D810 will probably be a few iterations, so each release needs to improve on AF and EVF, amongst other things.+ I don't even use the continuous shooting mode on my A7R, single frame is fine for me
+ I don't use AF with my A7R
+ After taking about 6000 photos with my A7R, I still need to see an issue with the viewfinder (shot day&night). I consider the EVF much better than the viewfinder on the 5D MkII/III bodies which I can use as comparison.
+ I could see full electronic shutter and IBIS as good camera improvements, but it is not a must for me either.
+ What it comes down to for me is simply - again - the sensor performance and overall camera size plus adaptability of third party MF lenses (--> thinner sensor stack).I love when people post about all the things THEY don't use.
maybe someone will make a camera that is so specialized that only a few people will buy it - they'll love it - because it was made JUST for them - but because it's feature set was so specific it will cost a fortune because it only sold a few units.My point was that I personally have no need for a mirrorless camera which is able to perform periphery-wise (AF, fps, etc) like a DSLR body - I am sure at some point this will happen, but at this point I am fine with some minor camera compromises (at least for me they are minor!) for having the advantage of mounting all kind of MF lenses on it and getting excellent sensor performance in a small-sized body - and all much less pricey than a similar DSLR body sensor-wise. But I agree that everyone's needs are different - but if...Show more →
I realize that there are a lot of guys who loved the a7 series b/c they could adapt all their old lenses.
NEWSFLASH: that's not why Sony is building this camera. The a7 series (none of them) are 'niche' cameras. Perhaps since inception and until a few more lenses are available, it's niche only because early adopters are those who are adapting lenses from other mounts - but I can't imagine that drives Sony's thinking regarding the feature sets of future cameras. It was convenient for them to bootstrap a new mount, but long-term, is unlikely to be their focus. Frankly, had that been a priority for them, do you think the sensor glass would be so thick?
You're dreaming if you think Sony is going to go the 'niche' route - they are a consumer, mass market company. They recently said that the a-mount cameras sold enough to cover development costs - large corporations like them regularly just write-off whole business lines - I would not be surprised if at some point they just stopped the a-mount (although that's not my base case for them).
as far as FPS and AF performance - I have no illusions that they're going to match DSLR any time within a few years/generations - but what I'm saying is that every one of their cameras has vast room for improvement in those categories. so for me to suggest that the a7r (a high MP camera that 'some' think of as a 'landscape' camera) needs better AF - is not the same as suggesting that the D810 needs to have AF as fast as the D4. What I'm saying is that over the next few generations, it'd be nice if the AF on the a7r improves towards what is available on the D810 (same with viewfinder experience).
ecarlino wrote
retrofocus wrote
ecarlino wrote
Matt Grum wrote
ecarlino wrote
SAR mentions that this is NOT the 'PRO' model - probably to temper the expectation of 50 MP in this camera.retrofocus wrote
The full hoped for feature-package with 50 MP sensor might only arrive in the A9.edit: whilst I was typing Darbo made a near identical post!
let's not forget that Sony a7 series cameras have very very poor AF and continuous shooting RELATIVELY speaking (so let's not start flaming me over this) compared to DSLR and there is A LOT OF ROOM for improvement - so the a7r2 could have a big improvement in AF (and a lot of other things) and still leave room for improvement.
I'm using an a7ii right now and can't believe how poor the viewfinder experience is with continuous shooting - how does anyone follow something that is moving around other than hoping and praying and guessing? because you certainly can't see anything when you hold the shutter down for a few seconds. And, yes - perhaps - compared to other mirrorless it's par for the course, but coming from a D800, it sucks. everything else w/ the a7ii and a7r have been fine to great, but there is a huge amount of room to get better on this.
I'm not even asking for D4 performance, but just to get the a7r up to D810 will probably be a few iterations, so each release needs to improve on AF and EVF, amongst other things.
+ I don't use AF with my A7R
+ After taking about 6000 photos with my A7R, I still need to see an issue with the viewfinder (shot day&night). I consider the EVF much better than the viewfinder on the 5D MkII/III bodies which I can use as comparison.
+ I could see full electronic shutter and IBIS as good camera improvements, but it is not a must for me either.
+ What it comes down to for me is simply - again - the sensor performance and overall camera size plus adaptability of third party MF lenses (--> thinner sensor stack).
maybe someone will make a camera that is so specialized that only a few people will buy it - they'll love it - because it was made JUST for them - but because it's feature set was so specific it will cost a fortune because it only sold a few units.
I realize that there are a lot of guys who loved the a7 series b/c they could adapt all their old lenses.
NEWSFLASH: that's not why Sony is building this camera. The a7 series (none of them) are 'niche' cameras. Perhaps since inception and until a few more lenses are available, it's niche only because early adopters are those who are adapting lenses from other mounts - but I can't imagine that drives Sony's thinking regarding the feature sets of future cameras. It was convenient for them to bootstrap a new mount, but long-term, is unlikely to be their focus. Frankly, had that been a priority for them, do you think the sensor glass would be so thick?
You're dreaming if you think Sony is going to go the 'niche' route - they are a consumer, mass market company. They recently said that the a-mount cameras sold enough to cover development costs - large corporations like them regularly just write-off whole business lines - I would not be surprised if at some point they just stopped the a-mount (although that's not my base case for them).
as far as FPS and AF performance - I have no illusions that they're going to match DSLR any time within a few years/generations - but what I'm saying is that every one of their cameras has vast room for improvement in those categories. so for me to suggest that the a7r (a high MP camera that 'some' think of as a 'landscape' camera) needs better AF - is not the same as suggesting that the D810 needs to have AF as fast as the D4. What I'm saying is that over the next few generations, it'd be nice if the AF on the a7r improves towards what is available on the D810 (same with viewfinder experience).
Mar 18, 2015 at 04:58 PM
p.2 #18A7rII rumour
ecarlino wrote:
edit: whilst I was typing Darbo made a near identical post!I've said this before on other threads, so sorry for repeating myself - but it's in response to the repeated statements that the high MP cameras from other brands don't sport their brand's fastest AF, etc.
let's not forget that Sony a7 series cameras have very very poor AF and continuous shooting RELATIVELY speaking (so let's not start flaming me over this) compared to DSLR and there is A LOT OF ROOM for improvement - so the a7r2 could have a big improvement in AF (and a lot of other things) and still leave room for improvement.
I'm using an a7ii right now and can't believe how poor the viewfinder experience is with continuous shooting - how does anyone follow something that is moving around other than hoping and praying and guessing? because you certainly can't see anything when you hold the shutter down for a few seconds. And, yes - perhaps - compared to other mirrorless it's par for the course, but coming from a D800, it sucks. everything else w/ the a7ii and a7r have been fine to great, but there is a huge amount of room to get better on this.
I'm not even asking for D4 performance, but just to get the a7r up to D810 will probably be a few iterations, so each release needs to improve on AF and EVF, amongst other things.+ I don't even use the continuous shooting mode on my A7R, single frame is fine for me
+ I don't use AF with my A7R
+ After taking about 6000 photos with my A7R, I still need to see an issue with the viewfinder (shot day&night). I consider the EVF much better than the viewfinder on the 5D MkII/III bodies which I can use as comparison.
+ I could see full electronic shutter and IBIS as good camera improvements, but it is not a must for me either.
+ What it comes down to for me is simply - again - the sensor performance and overall camera size plus adaptability of third party MF lenses (--> thinner sensor stack).I love when people post about all the things THEY don't use.
maybe someone will make a camera that is so specialized that only a few people will buy it - they'll love it - because it was made JUST for them - but because it's feature set was so specific it will cost a fortune because it only sold a few units.My point was that I personally have no need for a mirrorless camera which is able to perform periphery-wise (AF, fps, etc) like a DSLR body - I am sure at some point this will happen, but at this point I am fine with some minor camera compromises (at least for me they are minor!) for having the advantage of mounting all kind of MF lenses on it and getting excellent sensor performance in a small-sized body - and all much less pricey than a similar DSLR body sensor-wise. But I agree that everyone's needs are different - but if those periphery-based issues are so important, I would rather look at a decent DSLR from any brand currently than having high expectations in this matter from a mirrorless body.
Nikon already started to realize that some niches can be quite profitable - see the Nikon Df camera. High price tag because sales volume will be lower, but still a great idea and satisfies those who don't want to deal with too many functions. Leica is another example in general for a successful niche business. So yes, I would love to see if Sony goes more the niche route (maybe in addition to releasing generalized cameras to satisfy more money-bringing groups like event, wedding, and sports shooters) and releases similar to Leica for example a monochrome mirrorless camera. But as I see it at this point, it likely won't happen yet and Sony focuses on the "general" route.I realize that there are a lot of guys who loved the a7 series b/c they could adapt all their old lenses.
NEWSFLASH: that's not why Sony is building this camera. The a7 series (none of them) are 'niche' cameras. Perhaps since inception and until a few more lenses are available, it's niche only because early adopters are those who are adapting lenses from other mounts - but I can't imagine that drives Sony's thinking regarding the feature sets of future cameras. It was convenient for them to bootstrap a new mount, but long-term, is unlikely to be their focus. Frankly,...Show more →
I agree with you in most points. Sony was successful with introducing the A7 series, and they will try now to cash in more and penetrate the existing market mostly occupied by Canon and Nikon for event and sports shooters. I don't like this, but I am well aware that this is unfortunately the reality. I also agree that Sony won't change the sensor stack to make it easier to adapt rangefinder lenses - the market is too small and they want to push forward with FE lens sales for the mirrorless cameras. Likely Sony used a very similar sensor stack which they sold to Nikon for the D800E or D810.
All this combined makes it very unlikely for me to upgrade to a new A7R successor very soon. I would only consider if there is a new sensor in it which performs visibly better than the current 36 MP one. I rather vest $400 and have my existing A7R modified with thinner sensor glass
.
retrofocus wrote
ecarlino wrote
retrofocus wrote
ecarlino wrote
Matt Grum wrote
I'm not so sure, the trend has been for the flagship models from Canon and Nikon to have prioritised frame-rate and AF over resolution whilst the highest resolution sensors have been in smaller lower spec bodies. I don't see why Sony would be different, a small 50MP with slow frame-rate and modest AF makes more sense to me than a large, robust weather sealed pro oriented body, with a slow frame-rate and modest AF.edit: whilst I was typing Darbo made a near identical post!
let's not forget that Sony a7 series cameras have very very poor AF and continuous shooting RELATIVELY speaking (so let's not start flaming me over this) compared to DSLR and there is A LOT OF ROOM for improvement - so the a7r2 could have a big improvement in AF (and a lot of other things) and still leave room for improvement.
I'm using an a7ii right now and can't believe how poor the viewfinder experience is with continuous shooting - how does anyone follow something that is moving around other than hoping and praying and guessing? because you certainly can't see anything when you hold the shutter down for a few seconds. And, yes - perhaps - compared to other mirrorless it's par for the course, but coming from a D800, it sucks. everything else w/ the a7ii and a7r have been fine to great, but there is a huge amount of room to get better on this.
I'm not even asking for D4 performance, but just to get the a7r up to D810 will probably be a few iterations, so each release needs to improve on AF and EVF, amongst other things.
+ I don't use AF with my A7R
+ After taking about 6000 photos with my A7R, I still need to see an issue with the viewfinder (shot day&night). I consider the EVF much better than the viewfinder on the 5D MkII/III bodies which I can use as comparison.
+ I could see full electronic shutter and IBIS as good camera improvements, but it is not a must for me either.
+ What it comes down to for me is simply - again - the sensor performance and overall camera size plus adaptability of third party MF lenses (--> thinner sensor stack).
maybe someone will make a camera that is so specialized that only a few people will buy it - they'll love it - because it was made JUST for them - but because it's feature set was so specific it will cost a fortune because it only sold a few units.
Nikon already started to realize that some niches can be quite profitable - see the Nikon Df camera. High price tag because sales volume will be lower, but still a great idea and satisfies those who don't want to deal with too many functions. Leica is another example in general for a successful niche business. So yes, I would love to see if Sony goes more the niche route (maybe in addition to releasing generalized cameras to satisfy more money-bringing groups like event, wedding, and sports shooters) and releases similar to Leica for example a monochrome mirrorless camera. But as I see it at this point, it likely won't happen yet and Sony focuses on the "general" route.
NEWSFLASH: that's not why Sony is building this camera. The a7 series (none of them) are 'niche' cameras. Perhaps since inception and until a few more lenses are available, it's niche only because early adopters are those who are adapting lenses from other mounts - but I can't imagine that drives Sony's thinking regarding the feature sets of future cameras. It was convenient for them to bootstrap a new mount, but long-term, is unlikely to be their focus. Frankly,...Show more →
I agree with you in most points. Sony was successful with introducing the A7 series, and they will try now to cash in more and penetrate the existing market mostly occupied by Canon and Nikon for event and sports shooters. I don't like this, but I am well aware that this is unfortunately the reality. I also agree that Sony won't change the sensor stack to make it easier to adapt rangefinder lenses - the market is too small and they want to push forward with FE lens sales for the mirrorless cameras. Likely Sony used a very similar sensor stack which they sold to Nikon for the D800E or D810.
All this combined makes it very unlikely for me to upgrade to a new A7R successor very soon. I would only consider if there is a new sensor in it which performs visibly better than the current 36 MP one. I rather vest $400 and have my existing A7R modified with thinner sensor glass
. Mar 18, 2015 at 05:18 PM
p.2 #19A7rII rumour
With all the new Sony stuff, are the RAW files still lossy compressed?
Mar 18, 2015 at 06:14 PM
p.2 #20A7rII rumour
buggz2k wrote:
With all the new Sony stuff, are the RAW files still lossy compressed?
Maybe, just to make us appreciate them more, they'll change to an 8-bit lousy compressed raw file. Then we would all have some nice and strong compression artifacts that are a bit more visually easy to identify, document, and complain about.
Edited on Mar 18, 2015 at 06:40 PM · View previous versions
With all the new Sony stuff, are the RAW files still lossy compressed?
Maybe, just to make us appreciate them more, they'll change to an 8-bit lousy compressed raw file. Then we would all have some nice and strong compression artifacts that are a bit more visually easy to identify, document, and complain about.
Edited on Mar 18, 2015 at 06:40 PM · View previous versions
Mar 18, 2015 at 06:34 PM