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Archive 2015 · Samsung NX1 Rolling Impressions

  
 
rscheffler
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p.4 #1 · Samsung NX1 Rolling Impressions


It looks like a continuation of the lines/pattern of the building. I was also thinking reflection or filter, though perhaps it could be related to sensor readout? Wasn't there a problem with the a6000 & its PD-AF pixels causing some artifacting of some sort?

I also noticed the 16-50 doesn't seem to do much in terms of distinct starbursts around specular light sources. I guess it's a matter of taste, neither good nor bad.



Jan 30, 2015 at 04:27 PM
Jman13
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p.4 #2 · Samsung NX1 Rolling Impressions


Just checked the RAW - it is in the RAW file (and you can induce vertical banding if you crank contrast and clarity to the max...very much like the a6000). I think what is seen here is some sort of reflection off the sensor and the rear element of the lens. I haven't seen it in any other images, but I know the A7 had a similar type of issue. Bizarre. I'll keep an eye out for it on other images...I don't think it'll be a major issue. DR test coming up...I think some VERY interesting results.


Jan 30, 2015 at 04:47 PM
Jman13
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p.4 #3 · Samsung NX1 Rolling Impressions


Ok. Well, When I'm wrong I"m wrong. I did a setup with two cards I made up, with 10 stops of light (actual perceptual stops based on a study I read of RGB values vs. rendered exposure on digital sensors). I did discrete blocks, each with the text of each camera written inside a block of gray. In each case, the text is exactly one stop darker (for the bright patches) and one stop lighter (for the dark patches)...when the text isn't readable, that's the limit, see?) Each card is printed with my Pixma Pro 100 on baryta paper (deep blacks and good contrast).

I put one card right in front of an incandescent lamp, and the other divided by a black divider on black felt in deep shadow. I then took 1/3 stop increments at base ISO (200 for the Fuji, 100 for the a6000 and NX1) at 35mm and f/8 (Fuji 35/1.4, Sony 35/1.8 and the 16-50 on the NX).

I then looked at each exposure and pulled highlights as much as I could until I got to the exposure where the text on the 255 patch was blown out and blended into the 255 patch and no more could be recovered. . I then went to the previous darker exposure as the exposure to test, which maxes out the highlights. (Note that the cameras clipped the red channel first, and at different times, but I used a neutral white balance and only cared about luminance DR here...it's just too complex evaluating each color channel, though the X-T1 clipped the red first)

Regardless of ISO 'fudging', each sensor is within 1/3 stop of each other on the EV for the exposure that just barely doesn't clip. The Fuji was 1/4 sec at ISO 200, the Sony 1/2 sec at ISO 100, the Samsung 0.4s at ISO 100. (Fuji and Sony Identical, the Samsung was 1/3 stop darker in EV before clipping).

One thing I am not wrong on: the RAW file has more 'headroom' in the a6000 files, with true 'clipping' occurring 1.5 stops away from when it first 'clips' at default exposure. The NX1 only gets about 2/3 stop before it blows out. However, as noted above, this is a metering in the RAW file thing and not a true DR issue, since the max exposure for both is within 1/3 stop of each other.

Here's the bright part of the card at 'max' exposure for each. For readability, I continued pulling down until the 255 patch was at 230 instead of bright white.

Fuji X-T1:
http://www.jordansteele.com/2015/xt1_dr_bright.jpg

Sony a6000:
http://www.jordansteele.com/2015/a6000_dr_bright.jpg

Samsung NX1:
http://www.jordansteele.com/2015/nx1_dr_bright.jpg

I then disregarded the bright half and went to the dark card. I pushed the file 5 full stops in lightroom to pull as much shadow detail as humanly possible out, to see how dark on the dark card I could read.

Interestingly enough, the darkest patch where the text was visible (though in all cases, barely readable) was the same - the third darkest patch (second from the left on the second row...the 0 patch is the first on the third row).

While the Samsung of course has a resolution advantage here, the X-T1 produces the cleanest pushed shadows at the pixel level, with the Samsung very close behind. The X-T1 also maintains neutral color.

Normalized for resolution, the Samsung takes a slim lead in noise. The a6000, however, is massively behind. The same level is visible, but there is an awful green cast, and it's super noisy and shows banding. (By the way, this is what I mean when I've said that the a6000 files don't handle punishment like the Fuji's do).

NOTE: Changing order to put the normalized Samsung near the X-T1:

Samsung NX1:
http://www.jordansteele.com/2015/nx1_dr_dark.jpg

Samsung NX1 (Normalized to 16MP):
http://www.jordansteele.com/2015/nx1_dr_dark_normal.jpg

Fuji X-T1:
http://www.jordansteele.com/2015/xt1_dr_dark.jpg

Sony a6000:
http://www.jordansteele.com/2015/a6000_dr_dark.jpg




Jan 30, 2015 at 05:15 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.4 #4 · Samsung NX1 Rolling Impressions


^^ Another chart Looks good though. Have you played around with the jpeg styles/settings to see if there is one that might have a flatter tonal curve and maybe display a more conservative histogram when shooting?

Imaging Resource is still working on their review I guess but they do have their test shots up, one of which is high contrast lighting on a manikin in a white shirt bracketed. This test also shows the reduced highlight headroom and what looks to be a greater loss of color saturation (noticeable in the flowers the manikin is holding) when approaching the clipping point with the NX1 compared to other cameras.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/samsung-nx1/samsung-nx1A7.HTM

The test:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/ARTS/TESTS/OUTBGUIDE.HTM



Jan 30, 2015 at 05:33 PM
Jman13
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p.4 #5 · Samsung NX1 Rolling Impressions


I have an FD adapter coming today. lots of adapted samples to come.


Jan 31, 2015 at 09:13 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.4 #6 · Samsung NX1 Rolling Impressions


Jman13 wrote:
I have an FD adapter coming today. lots of adapted samples to come.


Do you have any Leica screw mount lenses? Apparently, these will adapt to Samsung, but not the M mount lenses. It would be very interesting to see how the Samsung sensor plays with rangefinder wides. It has been mentioned that the sensor design should be more friendly to steeper light ray angles. Of course with the body being so large, I don't know just how much sense that makes.




Jan 31, 2015 at 09:20 AM
Jman13
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p.4 #7 · Samsung NX1 Rolling Impressions


No I dont. I also only wanted to get one adapter, since I have to buy it, and I don't even own an nx camera.


Jan 31, 2015 at 10:00 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.4 #8 · Samsung NX1 Rolling Impressions


One thing that occurs to me about the previous highlight discussion is that perhaps the Samsung lens is extremely contrasty in it's own right. It's going to be interesting to see how the NX1 performs with the adapted lenses.


Jan 31, 2015 at 11:38 AM
curious80
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p.4 #9 · Samsung NX1 Rolling Impressions


Jordan thanks for the very thorough test! It was very informative. The results seem to agree with my observations.

Would you be willing to send me the raw files for the a6000 and nx1 exposures that you ended up using. I could pass them through dcraw to get a linear output without a tone curve applied and post those here. That will help clear the story even more.



Jan 31, 2015 at 03:25 PM
Phillip Reeve
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p.4 #10 · Samsung NX1 Rolling Impressions


Jman13 wrote:
Normalized for resolution, the Samsung takes a slim lead in noise. The a6000, however, is massively behind. The same level is visible, but there is an awful green cast, and it's super noisy and shows banding. (By the way, this is what I mean when I've said that the a6000 files don't handle punishment like the Fuji's do).

I see two issues here:
a) LR uses a wrong black level for the a6000 which results in the green cast, it is not a camera issue. See this thread on dpr. I didn't know about the issue but it was pointed out to me a few days ago when I compared the a7 and the a6000.
b) why did you normalize the Samsung shot but not the Sony image?

It seems you can fix the green cast issue by setting a correct black level via exiftool, I have never done it myself though so I can't tell you how exactly it is done, but I would be very interested in an rescaled image were the issue is fixed.



Jan 31, 2015 at 06:05 PM
Jman13
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p.4 #11 · Samsung NX1 Rolling Impressions


I didn't normalize the Sony because it was absolutely awful in comparison - what's the difference when it's not even close?

It's nice to know the green cast is a LR thing. I don't view the 'edit the individual file in some data editor to correct an error in encoding' as a real solution, though.

However, in C1, while there's no green cast, there's still a strong cast (purple/magenta in this case), and there's still way more noise and still has visible banding. Here's the a6000 shadow push in C1 8.1. The X-T1 in C1 is below. I can't do the NX1 becuase Capture One doesn't support it yet. There's still a clear advantage to the X-T1 here.

a6000:
http://www.jordansteele.com/2015/a6000_dr_darkc1.jpg

X-T1:
http://www.jordansteele.com/2015/xt1_c1.jpg



Jan 31, 2015 at 06:22 PM
Jman13
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p.4 #12 · Samsung NX1 Rolling Impressions


So my FD to NX adapter arrived today, and one benefit to the relatively long register distance for a mirrorless camera is that these adapters are very small. The FD to NX is very slim...similar in length to some M mount adapters for other mirrorless systems. Tried out the FL 55/1.2, FD 85/1.8 and FD 35/2 a bit today. The FL 55/1.2 doesn't quite enjoy the denser sensor. It looks great wide open on my Fuji bodies, is 'decent' but a bit soft on my a6000 and definitely strays into soft wide open on the NX1, at least at the pixel level. Of course, you can downsample and get similar sharpness, but you're not getting a whole lot beyond about 16MP of data at f/1.2. Now, stop down to f/2 and it's brilliant.

The 85/1.8 is also quite good. A touch of softness wide open, but still quite sharp.

I have to say, the high ISO performance of this camera reminds very much of my Fujis. Great tonal response and a very nice look at high ISO...it's like a Fuji with a super high res Bayer sensor. (and modern controls, etc.)

To quick snaps of my son (nothing exciting compositionally):
FD 85/1.8 @ 1.8:
http://www.jordansteele.com/2015/nx1_fd85.jpg

FL 55/1.2 @ f/2:
http://www.jordansteele.com/2015/nx1_fl55.jpg



Jan 31, 2015 at 07:22 PM
Mescalamba
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p.4 #13 · Samsung NX1 Rolling Impressions


Looks ok, but unlike kit lens, it doesnt show Mpix advantage. Guessing that most alt lens is out of their game at this point.. 50 mpix Canon will be the same.


Feb 01, 2015 at 05:23 AM
justruss
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p.4 #14 · Samsung NX1 Rolling Impressions


Jordan: Just wanted to say that you're killing it with these rolling impressions and test threads. The work is very much appreciated!

I wish we could get a sensor like this in our Fuji cameras, with Fuji ergonomics, lenses, and color processing.



Feb 01, 2015 at 07:11 AM
Mescalamba
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p.4 #15 · Samsung NX1 Rolling Impressions


justruss wrote:
Jordan: Just wanted to say that you're killing it with these rolling impressions and test threads. The work is very much appreciated!

I wish we could get a sensor like this in our Fuji cameras, with Fuji ergonomics, lenses, and color processing.


As long as it wouldnt be X-trans. Tho Fuji lens wouldnt handle 28 mpix APS-C.. tad bit too much resolution for them. That "kit" lens for NX-1 is very good, even tho it might not seem as such..



Feb 01, 2015 at 01:27 PM
galenapass
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p.4 #16 · Samsung NX1 Rolling Impressions


Mescalamba wrote:
As long as it wouldnt be X-trans. Tho Fuji lens wouldnt handle 28 mpix APS-C.. tad bit too much resolution for them. That "kit" lens for NX-1 is very good, even tho it might not seem as such..


Is this conclusion based upon data, or are you pulling things out of your...out of thin air again?

Edited on Feb 01, 2015 at 02:14 PM · View previous versions



Feb 01, 2015 at 02:11 PM
Jman13
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p.4 #17 · Samsung NX1 Rolling Impressions


I think you're a bit off base saying the Fuji lenses wouldn't handle 28MP? All of the current Fuji lenses appear to outresolve the sensor to my eye when stopped down, and they're not far off wide open. Especially the primes. They are phenomenal lenses...and the main reason I shoot Fuji.


Feb 01, 2015 at 02:11 PM
Jman13
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p.4 #18 · Samsung NX1 Rolling Impressions


Heres a shot with my FD50-300/4.5L from this morning.

http://www.jordansteele.com/2015/geese_morning_city.jpg



Feb 02, 2015 at 10:39 AM
Jman13
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p.4 #19 · Samsung NX1 Rolling Impressions


A few more shots from today. First is a 4 image stitch with the 50-300. The rest are with the 16-50.

http://www.jordansteele.com/2015/cold_cbus_pano.jpg

http://www.jordansteele.com/2015/bus_stop.jpg

http://www.jordansteele.com/2015/court_trees.jpg

5 shot HDR:
http://www.jordansteele.com/2015/invisible_reflection.jpg



Feb 02, 2015 at 09:09 PM
Jman13
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p.4 #20 · Samsung NX1 Rolling Impressions


Wow, post a comparison and the thread dies! Anyway, probably my last post of thoughts...working in the full review now. Overall, I really like the Nx1. Image quality is outstanding, ergonomics and features are great, AF is the best on any mirrorless camera in good light and still decent in low light. Great feature set with some cool technologies, beautiful rear screen and EVF, touch is implemented well. On the down sides, some odd menu organization, in camera RAW conversion is full featured but has some very bizarre interface quirks, the card door is cramped, making it hard to get the card out sometimes, and some of the buttons don't work the best with gloves on (but this is an issue for a lot of cameras. ). It's really one of the best cameras on the market.

A few shots from this morning. All handheld.
http://www.jordansteele.com/2015/trinity_night.jpg

http://www.jordansteele.com/2015/dispatch_sign.jpg

http://www.jordansteele.com/2015/abandoned_bank.jpg



Feb 03, 2015 at 08:52 AM
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