I really like this camera myself just used it at an event last night but I must say I sat there at my editing machine put it in LV and just using my main room light was easy to move around and see black bandit, then put that same 851.8 on my d800e and couldn't...this was a casual test but it was clear that MY d750 is more prone than MY d800e to this phenomenon....one has to wonder how much light scatter if affecting contrast BEFORE it shows up at the black bandit ( also borrowed my old d7000 and couldn't replicate it casually. One more note doesn't do it in 1.2x crop mode
Reading these threads I decided what the heck, I'll play too. Tried on my new D750 with a 24-120 and 50 1.8g, and cannot reproduce this. Probably because I am only a hobbiest, not a pro or amateur, so I cannot seem to get it right. Shooting into the sun, sun just above the top of the frame, different positions. Managed to get some ghosting, and all shots I would rate as garbage.
Now the D600 is only an entry level, but I can kinda sorta get a little banding, liking through live view.
sgilbert1967 wrote:
I really like this camera myself just used it at an event last night but I must say I sat there at my editing machine put it in LV and just using my main room light was easy to move around and see black bandit, then put that same 851.8 on my d800e and couldn't...this was a casual test but it was clear that MY d750 is more prone than MY d800e to this phenomenon....one has to wonder how much light scatter if affecting contrast BEFORE it shows up at the black bandit ( also borrowed my old d7000 and couldn't replicate it casually. One more note doesn't do it in 1.2x crop mode...Show more →
Considering the fact that I have taken about 6,000 photos now, some in the same locations as my two D600's and don't see the issue in any of the photos, I think it's a non issue. I don't see any issues at all with flare, haze or contrast when comparing to my d600 photos. TBH they look identical to me. I'm guessing the only difference I will notice is ISO above 6400.
cwes wrote:
Considering the fact that I have taken about 6,000 photos now, some in the same locations as my two D600's and don't see the issue in any of the photos, I think it's a non issue. I don't see any issues at all with flare, haze or contrast when comparing to my d600 photos. TBH they look identical to me. I'm guessing the only difference I will notice is ISO above 6400.
Welcome to the Internet age.
Whenever an issue was found on a new camera, people will get overly excited, especially for those who have not got it or those from opposite camps.
Many a time they used a wrong testing method or setup as can be seen on this thread. As an example there was a user here showing that his camera also have the dark band or internal flare issues, but in reality there was no dark band to be seen, rather just lens flare caused by a de-centered lens. This user uses Canon gears in his profile and explained very clearly how he tested it and also with a light source coming from within the frame.
When I first read about this, I tried to understand the issue, so I tried to ask users here to do some comparison, but not all results were provided.
So we did our own tests with 3 of our own cameras, a D810, my D800, the D750 and finally came to a group conclusion of what causes the issues.
Yes, there was dark band, there was reflection and there was flares on the D750, but all came from different sources and not from a single source. Some of these issues will happen on other cameras and lenses and not just from Nikon.
The sort of more critical of the issue found on the D750 and some other non Nikon cameras were fed back to them for their investigation.
Yes, they are aware of the issues and do "somewhat" (just to cover for them not to agree, even though there was no objections during the discussion) agreed with our findings and is looking into them is all I can say.
Oh! By the way as for the fellow photographer who owns the D750, he will continue to use his camera without too much of a worry because it will seldom happen and can be avoided by just a little shifting of position.
hans98ko wrote:
Welcome to the Internet age.
Whenever an issue was found on a new camera, people will get overly excited, especially for those who have not got it or those from opposite camps.
Many a time they used a wrong testing method or setup as can be seen on this thread. As an example there was a user here showing that his camera also have the dark band or internal flare issues, but in reality there was no dark band to be seen, rather just lens flare caused by a de-centered lens. This user uses Canon gears in his profile and explained very clearly how he tested it and also with a light source coming from within the frame.
When I first read about this, I tried to understand the issue, so I tried to ask users here to do some comparison, but not all results were provided.
So we did our own tests with 3 of our own cameras, a D810, my D800, the D750 and finally came to a group conclusion of what causes the issues.
Yes, there was dark band, there was reflection and there was flares on the D750, but all came from different sources and not from a single source. Some of these issues will happen on other cameras and lenses and not just from Nikon.
The sort of more critical of the issue found on the D750 and some other non Nikon cameras were fed back to them for their investigation.
Yes, they are aware of the issues and do "somewhat" (just to cover for them not to agree, even though there was no objections during the discussion) agreed with our findings and is looking into them is all I can say.
Oh! By the way as for the fellow photographer who owns the D750, he will continue to use his camera without too much of a worry because it will seldom happen and can be avoided by just a little shifting of position. ...Show more →
I agree it's not a big deal. But how can you really know you wont get it? you can only really tell in LV or when you review the photo on your camera. It's hard to say 100% for sure by just looking at the light through the viewfinder.
I never said it wasn't annoying. But what are my other options? pay $1,000 more for an inferior camera like the 5D Mark III? or save $1,000 get a D750 with better IQ, focuses better in very low light and take a chance of getting the defect shot about once every 3,000 shots or so. I will take my chances. I usually end up with about 3-5 kiss shots during a ceremony, not to mention my 2nd shooter will have them also.
cwes wrote:
I never said it wasn't annoying. But what are my other options? pay $1,000 more for an inferior camera like the 5D Mark III? or save $1,000 get a D750 with better IQ, focuses better in very low light and take a chance of getting the defect shot about once every 3,000 shots or so. I will take my chances. I usually end up with about 3-5 kiss shots during a ceremony, not to mention my 2nd shooter will have them also.
cwes wrote:
I agree it's not a big deal. But how can you really know you wont get it? you can only really tell in LV or when you review the photo on your camera. It's hard to say 100% for sure by just looking at the light through the viewfinder.
That is a very good and fair question and I am very glad that you asked.
Yes, you are right about not able to tell in normal shooting mode, but we now know that it will only happen when light enter the lens through the very edges from the top and bottom. So all we have to keep in mind is to avoid this types of situation when using this camera or always use a hood even in indoor.
hans98ko wrote:
That is a very good and fair question and I am very glad that you asked.
Yes, you are right about not able to tell in normal shooting mode, but we now know that it will only happen when light enter the lens through the very edges from the top and bottom. So all we have to keep in mind is to avoid this types of situation when using this camera or always use a hood even in indoor.
Yes, and it's not easy to reproduce. I've tried and have not been able to. I'm sure for those that have encountered it, it may be easier for them to reproduce it. I can see where that could be annoying: you know it's there. Easier to dismiss if you can't find it in the first place.
I suspect all units have this potential, and it is a design issue resulting from putting a tilt screen in a small bodied FF.
I also suspect that most if not all SLR's and DSLR's ever made had some design imperfection. The questions is how many people will encounter it in regular use. Look at the D800 left bank defect: scores of pros used the camera before a few stumbled upon it. Now that was a problem that could regularly impact anyone using a wide fast prime wide open, so it was something that would effect a large number of users of that particular camera.
I wonder on entry or mid range cameras, used more by enthusiasts and soccer parents, if these kinds of things happen all the time, but go unnoticed?
I also suspect that most if not all SLR's and DSLR's ever made had some design imperfection.
Oh, yeah. Just ask any F owner who dropped the back on a muddy sideline while changing film. Somewhere out in the ether you can probably still hear the chorus of primal screams that emanated from shooters under pressure who had to take the back off an F to get a fresh roll of Tri-X going:
"Damn it, Nikon!!!! You can't put hinge on this thing?!!!!"
patriot wrote:
I suspect all units have this potential, and it is a design issue resulting from putting a tilt screen in a small bodied FF.
What leads you to believe that making room for the tilt screen lead to the design issue? If anything I would think the dramatic grip change caused the biggest impact to the internal arrangement of the chamber components.
Hi Patriot,
All I can say is that I can't confirm or denies the actual cause of the D750 issues because I do not represent Nikon or authorized to do so.
What I am trying to do is to provide as much information for them to work on, so that they can come up with a solution or an official announcement if there is truly an issue. Or better still to improve on future products.
The final outcome is better products and user's satisfaction.
That is all I am hoping for.
Some of you are making a much bigger deal out of this than it is. When I put my camera in LV one of the lights in my house lets me see the issue pretty easily. The other lights in my house, I can't reproduce it on them. I have shot into the sun MANY times with my D750, it never showed up in any of my shots. Yet I know my camera like probably every other D750 has the issue. I think it's very rare your going to see it, even shooting into the sun. So why worry about it? half the time you could probably crop the top part out anyways even if you do see it. Once you take that into account, you are probably talking about 1 in every thousand, or 2 or 3 thousand shots it would ruin, IF THAT. You will probably have many more ruined by just being too soft or something.
snapsy wrote:
What leads you to believe that making room for the tilt screen lead to the design issue? If anything I would think the dramatic grip change caused the biggest impact to the internal arrangement of the chamber components.
Could be that, or a combination of body changes.
Looking at both side by side (I have both), the incorporation of the flip seems to have the most impact on the design, and takes about 1/4" away from the depth of the body, directly behind the lens mount, and where the mirror box, I'm guessing, is. That "box" part of the body,, behind the lens on the D750 is almost 1/2" longer (wider) than on the D600.
The inside edge of the grip on the D600 and D750 are both the same distance from the outside of the body, so it would appear that the change in the grip on the D750 takes no space at all from the "box" area behind the lens mount.
So just a guess, but the new grip seems to only impact the body by taking 1/4" from the depth off body at the inside of the grip... which seems to be off to the side of where I would guess the mirror box is.
hans98ko wrote:
Hi Patriot,
All I can say is that I can't confirm or denies the actual cause of the D750 issues because I do not represent Nikon or authorized to do so.
What I am trying to do is to provide as much information for them to work on, so that they can come up with a solution or an official announcement if there is truly an issue. Or better still to improve on future products.
The final outcome is better products and user's satisfaction.
That is all I am hoping for.
Despite my best efforts to show people that this 'issue' is not their camera but rather a lens flare issue let me point you to one more example.
Watch the movie Ronin circa 1998 shot on Kodak 500 ASA film 35 mm. Cameras for the movie are Panaflexes for dialogue scenes, Arriflex 435s and 35-IIIs for the car-chase sequences, and the Steadicam. Sixteen minutes in, the courtyard scene with Robert De Niro watching a group of singers. The camera pans down and low and behold a high intensity light skims the outer frame edge, for a second or two you will see this hard edge lens flare that some think their cameras are responsible for.
Feel free to send your cameras to Nikon for service or replacement, don't be surprised if they send it back with nothing done and tell you it is within specifications.
I have personally reproduced this 'issue' on a Nikon D700, D810, Fujifilm XT-1 and a Sinar P 4x5 film camera. Believe me when I say it is not your camera body, it is the lens that produces this.
Feel free to send your cameras to Nikon for service or replacement, don't be surprised if they send it back with nothing done and tell you it is within specifications.
JBPhotog wrote:
Believe me when I say it is not your camera body, it is the lens that produces this.
And yet lenses that produce this effect easily with the D750 will not produce the effect with great effort on the D600.
It may be a compounding of issues, but something about the D750 design certainly makes it more prone to the problem than the several other FX Nikon models I've owned.
?!!!!"