This topic is in the 2014 archive. You can read it and like its posts here. It is read only.
Archive 2014Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
p.9 #1Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
Edward, looks like Lloyd has only posted images from this lens using M240. Has he posted anything usibg A7r?
Interesting zeiss say on their page that this lens was for their rangefinder friends and did not mention anything about MILC A7 friends.
Interesting zeiss say on their page that this lens was for their rangefinder friends and did not mention anything about MILC A7 friends.
Sep 18, 2014 at 12:56 PM
p.9 #2Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
wayne seltzer wrote:
Edward, looks like Lloyd has only posted images from this lens using M240. Has he posted anything usibg A7r?
Interesting zeiss say on their page that this lens was for their rangefinder friends and did not mention anything about MILC A7 friends.
no love.
Edward, looks like Lloyd has only posted images from this lens using M240. Has he posted anything usibg A7r?
Interesting zeiss say on their page that this lens was for their rangefinder friends and did not mention anything about MILC A7 friends.
no love.
Sep 18, 2014 at 12:58 PM
p.9 #3Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
The lens is made for M mount cameras. Performance on other bodies is a secondary consideration.... One which doesn't matter much to me. It is great to see a cutting edge product come out for a rangefinder and I hope (perhaps too optimistic?) this trend will continue. However, it would be great for the Sony users if this lens was an equally strong performer as it is on Leica cameras. I think there are some other fast 35's which work great on the A7 - correct?
Sep 18, 2014 at 01:41 PM
p.9 #4Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
I am reading the tealeaves, but I think Zeiss may have decided to release the ZM 35 f:1.4 to prove a point. Point being that they are just as capable as Leica to desing cutting edge lenses that are also small. I don't think they will sell lots, but at least people won't post that Otus are large only because Zeiss don't know better, whereas Leica do. In a way, it is a spoiler lens IMHO.
But, as a Distagon, it might well work with A7R, and then, there is one with my name on it. Yummee...
But, as a Distagon, it might well work with A7R, and then, there is one with my name on it. Yummee...
Sep 18, 2014 at 01:56 PM
p.9 #5Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
uhoh7 wrote:
Can we bring the other titantic dynosuperspeed M 35 into the picture? I asume there must be charts of both versions around somewhere, and one guy at RFF was thinking the CV was actually close "on paper".
In short, how do the CV 35/1.2 (specify version) graphs compare to zm35/1.4?
I guess the other one we might add is the new updated CV 35/1.7, another lens which I hope might be better than RF average on the A7.
I have never seen published technical information from Cosina for any Voigtlander lenses. Therefore I think we won't know exactly until Roger at Lensrentals puts it through his test lab and publishes the results.
I have shot the CV against the ZMs on the M9 and Sonys in my tests awhile ago and generally agree with Derek. The ZMs will have more of the Zeiss punch and at least the f/2 version will probably outperform it for landscapes (I need to reexamine my test images). That said, the CV fares surprisingly well and like the 21/1.8, makes for a very impressive all-rounder. It's certainly one of the better performers on the Sony cameras.
Cosina does publish optical block diagrams and here it looks fairly similar to the new ZM.
I also agree with Derek that it's a lens fairly characteristic of Voigtlander rendering, erring on the side of somewhat lower contrast without micro contrast oomph.
Sep 18, 2014 at 01:58 PM
p.9 #6Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
Point being that they are just as capable as Leica to desing cutting edge lenses that are also small.
Yes and no. Yes, it all adds to choice that Zeiss have produced a ZM lens that on early reports and mtfs seems to best leica's best and considerably more expensive 35mm. No, in that it is 50% longer than the lux, which on an M camera could be an ergonomic disaster in that it blocks the finder too much, especially once there is a hood on it. The ZM lenses have been real competition for Leica for a while, but unfortunately, most of them are a fair bit larger than the Leica equivalents, indicating that they still haven't quite got it on size yet.
If the lens fares well on the A7/R, then the extra length will be less critical as there is no viewfinder frame to block, and it will be a million times more welcome than an Otis.
Yes and no. Yes, it all adds to choice that Zeiss have produced a ZM lens that on early reports and mtfs seems to best leica's best and considerably more expensive 35mm. No, in that it is 50% longer than the lux, which on an M camera could be an ergonomic disaster in that it blocks the finder too much, especially once there is a hood on it. The ZM lenses have been real competition for Leica for a while, but unfortunately, most of them are a fair bit larger than the Leica equivalents, indicating that they still haven't quite got it on size yet.
If the lens fares well on the A7/R, then the extra length will be less critical as there is no viewfinder frame to block, and it will be a million times more welcome than an Otis.
Sep 18, 2014 at 03:12 PM
p.9 #7Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
wolfloid wrote:
Yes and no. Yes, it all adds to choice that Zeiss have produced a ZM lens that on early reports and mtfs seems to best leica's best and considerably more expensive 35mm. No, in that it is 50% longer than the lux, which on an M camera could be an ergonomic disaster in that it blocks the finder too much, especially once there is a hood on it. The ZM lenses have been real competition for Leica for a while, but unfortunately, most of them are a fair bit larger than the Leica equivalents, indicating that they still haven't quite...Show more →
The 35 ZMs are longer, but they also lake the more wavy field of the Leica 35s, so it's just a trade off. That Zone B dip comes up in a lot of the Leica designs. FWIW, this is coming from someone who prefers the 35 Summicron ASPH, as I found it to be the best compromise versus the other ZM and Leica 35s, but it does still have some of that Zone B dip.
Earlier quote
Point being that they are just as capable as Leica to desing cutting edge lenses that are also small.The 35 ZMs are longer, but they also lake the more wavy field of the Leica 35s, so it's just a trade off. That Zone B dip comes up in a lot of the Leica designs. FWIW, this is coming from someone who prefers the 35 Summicron ASPH, as I found it to be the best compromise versus the other ZM and Leica 35s, but it does still have some of that Zone B dip.
Sep 18, 2014 at 06:42 PM
p.9 #8Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
Diglloyd still didn't post any images with the A7 but he's working on a 6 way comparison with Leica, Zeiss and Voigtlander on the M this weekend. If I was an A7 user, I wouldn't have great expectations especially for the price.
I am very excited about this lens, despite Derek showing no love
I have realized for a while now that we have diverging esthetic tastes even though we mostly agree on the technical parts 
My only gripe with the Distagon so far is the size. For a wide aperture 35mm lens, I think it can be forgiven the slight dip in zone B. Anyway, the MTF is still better than the 35 Lux FLE and even the ZE 35/1.4 which is triple the size and weight.
I am very excited about this lens, despite Derek showing no love
I have realized for a while now that we have diverging esthetic tastes even though we mostly agree on the technical parts My only gripe with the Distagon so far is the size. For a wide aperture 35mm lens, I think it can be forgiven the slight dip in zone B. Anyway, the MTF is still better than the 35 Lux FLE and even the ZE 35/1.4 which is triple the size and weight. Sep 18, 2014 at 08:02 PM
p.9 #9Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
edwardkaraa wrote:
I am very excited about this lens, despite Derek showing no love I have realized for a while now that we have diverging esthetic tastes even though we mostly agree on the technical parts My only gripe with the Distagon so far is the size. For a wide aperture 35mm lens, I think it can be forgiven the slight dip in zone B. Anyway, the MTF is still better than the 35 Lux FLE and even the ZE 35/1.4 which is triple the size and weight.
what? that comment was a complaint about zeiss not showing any love for their "a7 friends".
i'm very excited about this lens too. i'd love to replace my c/y with something smaller.
I am very excited about this lens, despite Derek showing no love
I have realized for a while now that we have diverging esthetic tastes even though we mostly agree on the technical parts My only gripe with the Distagon so far is the size. For a wide aperture 35mm lens, I think it can be forgiven the slight dip in zone B. Anyway, the MTF is still better than the 35 Lux FLE and even the ZE 35/1.4 which is triple the size and weight. what? that comment was a complaint about zeiss not showing any love for their "a7 friends".
i'm very excited about this lens too. i'd love to replace my c/y with something smaller.
Sep 18, 2014 at 08:46 PM
p.9 #10Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
sebboh wrote:
edwardkaraa wrote
I am very excited about this lens, despite Derek showing no love I have realized for a while now that we have diverging esthetic tastes even though we mostly agree on the technical parts My only gripe with the Distagon so far is the size. For a wide aperture 35mm lens, I think it can be forgiven the slight dip in zone B. Anyway, the MTF is still better than the 35 Lux FLE and even the ZE 35/1.4 which is triple the size and weight.i'm very excited about this lens too. i'd love to replace my c/y with something smaller.
Oops! Lost in translation
I thought you were talking about bokeh for some reason
Sep 18, 2014 at 08:58 PM
p.9 #11Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
edwardkaraa wrote:
I have realized for a while now that we have diverging esthetic tastes even though we mostly agree on the technical parts My only gripe with the Distagon so far is the size. For a wide aperture 35mm lens, I think it can be forgiven the slight dip in zone B. Anyway, the MTF is still better than the 35 Lux FLE and even the ZE 35/1.4 which is triple the size and weight.what? that comment was a complaint about zeiss not showing any love for their "a7 friends".
i'm very excited about this lens too. i'd love to replace my c/y with something smaller.Oops! Lost in translation
I thought you were talking about bokeh for some reason
i made lots of negative comments on the bokeh of many lenses in this thread and the FE 35/1.4 thread, but none of them were directed at the new zm 35/1.4 – i still haven't seen more than 2 or 3 samples so i can't say (i expect it to be good though). it might be confusing since, i like to bash the bokeh of the other fast zm 35mm...
sebboh wrote
edwardkaraa wrote
I am very excited about this lens, despite Derek showing no love I have realized for a while now that we have diverging esthetic tastes even though we mostly agree on the technical parts My only gripe with the Distagon so far is the size. For a wide aperture 35mm lens, I think it can be forgiven the slight dip in zone B. Anyway, the MTF is still better than the 35 Lux FLE and even the ZE 35/1.4 which is triple the size and weight.i'm very excited about this lens too. i'd love to replace my c/y with something smaller.
I thought you were talking about bokeh for some reason
i made lots of negative comments on the bokeh of many lenses in this thread and the FE 35/1.4 thread, but none of them were directed at the new zm 35/1.4 – i still haven't seen more than 2 or 3 samples so i can't say (i expect it to be good though). it might be confusing since, i like to bash the bokeh of the other fast zm 35mm...
Sep 18, 2014 at 09:07 PM
p.9 #12Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
Derek - what are the other good fast 35mm options for the A7? Are there any that are relatively small in size and perform well?
Sep 18, 2014 at 09:16 PM
p.9 #13Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
Gary Clennan wrote:
Derek - what are the other good fast 35mm options for the A7? Are there any that are relatively small in size and perform well?
the FE 35/2.8, lux asph, FLE, and cv 35/1.2 all perform quite well. the lux pre asph is quite good too if you can handle the classic mandler glow at wide aperture.
Edited on Sep 18, 2014 at 09:28 PM · View previous versions
Derek - what are the other good fast 35mm options for the A7? Are there any that are relatively small in size and perform well?
the FE 35/2.8, lux asph, FLE, and cv 35/1.2 all perform quite well. the lux pre asph is quite good too if you can handle the classic mandler glow at wide aperture.
Edited on Sep 18, 2014 at 09:28 PM · View previous versions
Sep 18, 2014 at 09:21 PM
p.9 #14Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
Another possibility might be the reformulated CV 35 f/1.7 just released this week.
Sep 18, 2014 at 09:25 PM
p.9 #15Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
Steve Spencer wrote:
Another possibility might be the reformulated CV 35 f/1.7 just released this week.
maybe, corners have looked sketchy to me in all the images i've seen from the old version.
Another possibility might be the reformulated CV 35 f/1.7 just released this week.
maybe, corners have looked sketchy to me in all the images i've seen from the old version.
Sep 18, 2014 at 09:29 PM
p.9 #16Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
Yeah, I thought that too, but the new one released this week I think is supposed to be reformulated for digital and that might make it a little better as it probably is designed for cover glass of .9mm, which isn't 2.5mm, but at least on the way. That might help the corners.
Sep 18, 2014 at 09:35 PM
p.9 #17Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
Steve Spencer wrote:
Yeah, I thought that too, but the new one released this week I think is supposed to be reformulated for digital and that might make it a little better as it probably is designed for cover glass of .9mm, which isn't 2.5mm, but at least on the way. That might help the corners.
Yes, it's a new optical design with an extra element compared to the previous one. It also has a mfd of only .5 m. You have to think that Cosina know these lenses will see wide use on the Sony's given the release of the tiny, collapsible 40 that is only focusable when used with the VM-E helicoid close focus E adapter.
Yeah, I thought that too, but the new one released this week I think is supposed to be reformulated for digital and that might make it a little better as it probably is designed for cover glass of .9mm, which isn't 2.5mm, but at least on the way. That might help the corners.
Yes, it's a new optical design with an extra element compared to the previous one. It also has a mfd of only .5 m. You have to think that Cosina know these lenses will see wide use on the Sony's given the release of the tiny, collapsible 40 that is only focusable when used with the VM-E helicoid close focus E adapter.
Sep 19, 2014 at 05:00 AM
p.9 #18Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
I am intrigued as to whether that 40 will be decent or not on the A7. If it is, then that is an interesing direction.
Sep 19, 2014 at 09:26 AM
p.9 #19Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
wolfloid wrote:
I am intrigued as to whether that 40 will be decent or not on the A7. If it is, then that is an interesing direction.
the first real pancake designed for the system.
I am intrigued as to whether that 40 will be decent or not on the A7. If it is, then that is an interesing direction.
the first real pancake designed for the system.
Sep 19, 2014 at 09:45 AM
p.9 #20Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
sebboh wrote:
the FE 35/2.8, lux asph, FLE, and cv 35/1.2 all perform quite well. the lux pre asph is quite good too if you can handle the classic mandler glow at wide aperture.
I said the same thing in another thread--leaving out the pre-asph, and I thought you replied to the effect: "oh no, there are many RF 35s which are great on A7"
philber wrote:
I am reading the tealeaves, but I think Zeiss may have decided to release the ZM 35 f:1.4 to prove a point. Point being that they are just as capable as Leica to desing cutting edge lenses that are also small.
Philber, it's the second biggest RF 35 ever made in history!
But I think you are right, they are trying to prove a point: "we can make something even better performing than FLE"
BTW Still love my zm18, which I own because of you
Well the bokeh talk had me pulling out the CV 35, while we still have leaves:
L1020448 by unoh7, on Flickr
L1020457 by unoh7, on Flickr
The great thing about a 1.2 35 is you actually have a bit of DOF BTW I found this lens also better on the A7 than A7r.
You really have to give Mr Kobayashi huge credit: he's going to be making this new lens, right? It's really a zeiss/cosina, and perhaps we should seperate the various zeiss brandings in this way.
Kobayashi makes them huge, like all his M superspeeds, but he does tiny very very well also. Of course the CV 21/4 is no 21 SEM, but it's way smaller and they run around 275USD.
I don't know his sharpest 50: might even be one of the small ones, but I wish he did charts or had zeiss do some for him.
But his real sleeper is that 75/2.5, which is the smallest of all 75s by alot, wicked sharp, and bokeh seems fine. In addition, he makes one of the great 90s also---from my perspective anyway.
His RF bodies have also been very interesting. I just wish he would give us a nice digital M body........
@Steve Yes, the new sleeper may be the 35 ultron, which is really potentially just as interesting as this lens, since it's smaller and much cheaper.
the FE 35/2.8, lux asph, FLE, and cv 35/1.2 all perform quite well. the lux pre asph is quite good too if you can handle the classic mandler glow at wide aperture.
I said the same thing in another thread--leaving out the pre-asph, and I thought you replied to the effect: "oh no, there are many RF 35s which are great on A7"
philber wrote:
I am reading the tealeaves, but I think Zeiss may have decided to release the ZM 35 f:1.4 to prove a point. Point being that they are just as capable as Leica to desing cutting edge lenses that are also small.
Philber, it's the second biggest RF 35 ever made in history!
But I think you are right, they are trying to prove a point: "we can make something even better performing than FLE"
BTW Still love my zm18, which I own because of you
Well the bokeh talk had me pulling out the CV 35, while we still have leaves:
L1020448 by unoh7, on Flickr
L1020457 by unoh7, on Flickr
The great thing about a 1.2 35 is you actually have a bit of DOF
BTW I found this lens also better on the A7 than A7r.You really have to give Mr Kobayashi huge credit: he's going to be making this new lens, right? It's really a zeiss/cosina, and perhaps we should seperate the various zeiss brandings in this way.
Kobayashi makes them huge, like all his M superspeeds, but he does tiny very very well also. Of course the CV 21/4 is no 21 SEM, but it's way smaller and they run around 275USD.
I don't know his sharpest 50: might even be one of the small ones, but I wish he did charts or had zeiss do some for him.
But his real sleeper is that 75/2.5, which is the smallest of all 75s by alot, wicked sharp, and bokeh seems fine. In addition, he makes one of the great 90s also---from my perspective anyway.
His RF bodies have also been very interesting. I just wish he would give us a nice digital M body........
@Steve Yes, the new sleeper may be the 35 ultron, which is really potentially just as interesting as this lens, since it's smaller and much cheaper.
Sep 19, 2014 at 10:15 AM