p.6 #2 · Overshooting vs decisive moment /// Is the end product all that matters?
As you noted, this is a business.
Shooting scads of images and picking the best is A strategy but not necessarily a cost effective one. A skilled photographer will know how to anticipate events and be ready for the unexpected opportunities that crop up.
Their post is much less because they got what was needed with the least possible effort. Many images at a wedding are bread and butter so they can be made with minimal pain. artistic images can happen anytime and are a product of planning and preparation.
The notion of an artist lost in their creative passion taking wedding photos is cute but a romantic fiction( endless FB posts gushing about "passion" notwithstanding ). This is not to say a pro does not derive creative satisfaction from their work but rather they understand that their creative and commercial survival depends on shipping product at the right price at the lowest cost so that they can continue to offer their services to an appreciative public.
p.6 #3 · Overshooting vs decisive moment /// Is the end product all that matters?
... or we just call it shooting. My interest in this thread is really just to understand how the processes of others differ. I'm not in it to tell someone they are doing it wrong. Chances are I'm the one doing it wrong! I really do appreciate all of the insight from those who contributed, though.
p.6 #4 · Overshooting vs decisive moment /// Is the end product all that matters?
markd61 wrote:
A skilled photographer will know how to anticipate events and be ready for the unexpected opportunities that crop up.
I see people say this all the time. I say it's BS. It's like saying someone is a mind reader. You NEVER know what's going to happen next. Yeah, you can shoot for what you anticipate is going to happen. If you stop shooting after what you anticipated happened, then you will miss what happens after that you didn't anticipate.
p.6 #5 · Overshooting vs decisive moment /// Is the end product all that matters?
+1 to that.
I'm a photographer not a mind reader and when there are 10 people dancing with their hands in the air I'll admit that I can't keep track of everyone's expression so I'll shoot a short burst.
This is a case where I have recognised the moment, anticipated the action and captured a range of options to study and select from.
Or if the bride is teary at the vows, do I just shoot 1 shot, confident that I've nailed the absolute moment, (and in the spirit of film shooters - not checking my LCD). No - I'm not proud. I'll shoot a burst of three and if it's the second one that hits the moment best then I happy.
There will be those who claim they can nail the best of everything in a single frame - but they'll never really know, because they never shot the 2nd frame to check.
p.6 #6 · Overshooting vs decisive moment /// Is the end product all that matters?
leethecam wrote:
There will be those who claim they can nail the best of everything in a single frame - but they'll never really know, because they never shot the 2nd frame to check.
This kind of goes back to what I was saying about each shot being precious. This day in age each time we click the shutter it basically means nothing. Literally nothing. It means nothing because their is no consequence whether we shoot one or shoot 100 in a scene.
Many of the great photographers could capture the essence of a scene or moment in one shot or a small series of shots. It is true, very rarely is their a "one shot one kill" type scenario. If one looks at the Magnum photographers contact sheets we can see how many of them shot through a given scene and then culled it down to "the shot". To me the difference between what they did with film and what we do with digital is just the # of shots we can take at any given time. They had at most 36 shots, we have unlimited shots basically. So even though they could fire 4-6-8 shots in a row they still had to be much more careful every time they pulled the trigger. Which is where I find digital to be disconcerting. I find myself not thinking about anything except maybe framing or other basic stuff. I truly don't have enough limitations to have to work harder to achieve the desired shot. Seems ridiculous I know but for me it is what keeps me going.
Street shooting whenever possible has helped me immensely with wedding photography. I find in the fast paced environment on the street you basically do have only one shot sometimes. Sure you could fire your D4 at 11fps but at that point you might as well just shoot video. Their is a certain satisfaction in being able to analyze a scene pick your shot and then shoot it one and done. It is extremely hard but it pays off HUGE when you can take that back to weddings. I never had enough confidence to shoot less or to shoot film but after switching to all film for personal work and then moving that over to weddings I am amazed that it is actually possible to shoot less and still produce the same quality of work. Personally that has been very rewarding.
On another note:
I do prefer shooting my Leica whenever I can because it just feels right to me but this year as time went on I realized that I did need to be able to shoot small bursts so I did add an f100 which is great for faster paced scenes and for portraits where the ability to shoot continuously is needed. Even though I can fire quicker I still am limited by the shots on the roll so instead of firing 15 for a scene I might wait and shoot and limit things to 3-4 shots. I personally have found no difference between my film and digital results. Sure that could just mean my digital results suck but they have sucked for a while and my clients are not bothered so I suppose thats fine.
p.6 #7 · Overshooting vs decisive moment /// Is the end product all that matters?
Inku Yo wrote:
I see people say this all the time. I say it's BS. It's like saying someone is a mind reader. You NEVER know what's going to happen next. Yeah, you can shoot for what you anticipate is going to happen. If you stop shooting after what you anticipated happened, then you will miss what happens after that you didn't anticipate.
Good lord. It's not about mind reading, it's about observing what's happening without shooting it. No one's saying grab a coffee while you're waiting for the next great moment, but you can have your camera ready in your hands or be watching through the viewfinder without actually pressing the shutter... in other words, "anticipating".
p.6 #8 · Overshooting vs decisive moment /// Is the end product all that matters?
To Myam203...
Just trying to understand your work flow. Do you shoot in single shot mode or in short bursts of 3/4/5
Observing, anticipating, seeing, realising and capturing... oops to late - or maybe a fraction too early if the action develops a fraction later into something more.
We're talking split seconds here not shooting until the card fills up. A ready camera is great and observation of peoples' habits / character / interactions is essential. But you don't truly know a moment has peaked until - well... after it's peaked and that's a fraction to late. Hence the need for shooting in bursts.
And of course even shooting in modest bursts of say 3fps, will add to the daily total very quickly.
Even the greatest of Magnum shooters shot several frames of an action. They just paid more than we do for originating the images.
p.6 #9 · Overshooting vs decisive moment /// Is the end product all that matters?
Single shot, because even if I'm shooting rapid fire, I still want to decide to take each shot first instead of just firing away, but I will absolutely shoot a few shots in a row if I see something developing in front of me. However, that doesn't happen enough throughout the day (for my style of shooting) to add up to much more than 1,000 shots.
p.6 #10 · Overshooting vs decisive moment /// Is the end product all that matters?
Myan203...
If it works for you then that's great. For my style of shots and my delivery, single shot would be too restrictive. Even with shots of 2/3 people laughing together there is no guarantee how they will all look at the time the shutter fires, (even with anticipation there's a slight delay) and I'm always striving for a perfect moment.
With more active shots it gets even more difficult and often there are more people in the shot.
And of course there's the happy accident with burst shooting and it's brought about some classic moments that no one could have ever expected.
Sometimes i will be the 1st shot, sometimes it will be the 3rd but burst shooting offers options and more often than not its the unpredictable moment a fraction after the first which provides the best capture. A slight change in expression, a tiny turn of the head, a glance from a guest in the background.
I guess the point I'm making is that whilst anticipation of a good shot may work wonders, the moment fractionally after may or may not provide the one that screams "pick me."
My camera is set to multishot 3 fps quiet mode, with a button allocated to give me servo focus instantly if required (although rarely used as my usual f2.8 seems to demand too much of it).
And all it costs me is the extra 3 seconds per shot and for me that's about an extra hr or so of culling.
It depends on the style of shooting and mine means I often go for demanding captures. If your style is working for you, then that's fine too.
p.6 #11 · Overshooting vs decisive moment /// Is the end product all that matters?
Makes sense to me, Lee. To each their own! I definitely err on the side of less shots, because I hate spending time at the computer, so that's an influencing factor for me as well.
p.6 #12 · Overshooting vs decisive moment /// Is the end product all that matters?
For what its worth, this is from an interview with Steve McCurry talking about his transition from film to digital:
"Moving to digital has helped dramatically. In the days when I used film, I could go though between 800 to 1000 rolls of film on a single shoot of which only 20 to 25 really exceptional photos would be chosen for use."
So that's 19,000ish on the low end if he used 24 exposures per roll to 36,000 on the high end if he used 36 exposure rolls to get to TWENTY FIVE SHOTS.
p.6 #13 · Overshooting vs decisive moment /// Is the end product all that matters?
Here's an image from a wedding I shot 2 years ago. It's just the maid of honor giving her speech. I probably had 50 or more images of just the speech. Some from more traditional angles, in front of the MOH, behind her getting the bride's reaction, etc... then, I saw this. I kept shooting the speech until I got a reaction that told the story better than just a photo of their reflection.
p.6 #14 · Overshooting vs decisive moment /// Is the end product all that matters?
myam203 wrote:
Good lord. It's not about mind reading, it's about observing what's happening without shooting it. No one's saying grab a coffee while you're waiting for the next great moment, but you can have your camera ready in your hands or be watching through the viewfinder without actually pressing the shutter... in other words, "anticipating".
And? What do you do when what you anticipated happens? You click once and that's it? What if someone reaches in front of you to hand the bride a tissue? You stop shooting and complain that someone got in your way?
Shooting what you anticipate is like a good golf swing. You need to follow through. Some of the most interesting images are shot of what you didn't anticipate, but caught on your camera.
p.6 #15 · Overshooting vs decisive moment /// Is the end product all that matters?
If you read the next thing I wrote, I said I will keep shooting through those moments, but only as I see things continue to unfold.
Sep 03, 2014 at 08:17 PM
glort Offline • • • • [X]
p.6 #16 · Overshooting vs decisive moment /// Is the end product all that matters?
Inku Yo wrote:
I probably had 50 or more images of just the speech.
Would this number or something like that be typical of the amount of pics you would take I presume of each and every speech maker or was this an exceptional case and you would nomally do a very differnt amount of this particular Shot?
p.6 #17 · Overshooting vs decisive moment /// Is the end product all that matters?
Inku Yo wrote:
Here's an image from a wedding I shot 2 years ago. It's just the maid of honor giving her speech. I probably had 50 or more images of just the speech. Some from more traditional angles, in front of the MOH, behind her getting the bride's reaction, etc... then, I saw this. I kept shooting the speech until I got a reaction that told the story better than just a photo of their reflection.
p.6 #18 · Overshooting vs decisive moment /// Is the end product all that matters?
myam203 wrote:
Makes sense to try different angles, but why not just sit and wait for the reaction and just shoot that instead of non-stop shooting?
I got a reaction. Many. This was the best one of the entire speech. If I had just stopped after the first giggle, I wouldn't have gotten this guffaw. I'm not sitting there just holding the shutter button down. I'm waiting for reactions... and usually during a speech, there are many. I pick the best one later when I get home.
p.6 #19 · Overshooting vs decisive moment /// Is the end product all that matters?
glort wrote:
Would this number or something like that be typical of the amount of pics you would take I presume of each and every speech maker or was this an exceptional case and you would nomally do a very differnt amount of this particular Shot?
