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Archive 2014$10K - $12K / Month, what camera?
p.2 #1$10K - $12K / Month, what camera?
He is the primary photographer for a very busy destination wedding coordinator. They do at least 100 weddings per month, and he shoots the majority of them. Add that to his regular client base (family portraits and real estate) and he is one busy dood.
His wife has a great gov't job, so he gets free medical, and he does no marketing, so no costs there.
Just about ideal for a photographer, IMO
greg
His wife has a great gov't job, so he gets free medical, and he does no marketing, so no costs there.
Just about ideal for a photographer, IMO
greg
Jul 18, 2014 at 01:16 AM
p.2 #2$10K - $12K / Month, what camera?
gheller wrote:
Hypothetical Question:
What model (Canon specifically) should a photographer have if earning that kind of money?
Have a buddy that is in this range and uses 5D / 5DII
Thoughts?
greg
Im in or above that range and I shoot Fuji.
Hypothetical Question:
What model (Canon specifically) should a photographer have if earning that kind of money?
Have a buddy that is in this range and uses 5D / 5DII
Thoughts?
greg
Im in or above that range and I shoot Fuji.
Jul 18, 2014 at 10:11 AM
p.2 #3$10K - $12K / Month, what camera?
This guys sounds like you Greg. Do you want a liberal response or conservative response?
Liberal: You deserve a 5D III/1Dx
Conservative: You don't need a 5D III/1Dx
I'm going into hiding after this response.
Liberal: You deserve a 5D III/1Dx
Conservative: You don't need a 5D III/1Dx
I'm going into hiding after this response.
Jul 18, 2014 at 12:25 PM
p.2 #4$10K - $12K / Month, what camera?
All kidding aside. One of the nicer thing about owning a really, really small business is the amount that you can put into a SEP IRA. I think you can put away 25% or $52k whichever is lower which is huge! That's a lot of tax deferred money.
If he or you maxed out already, the next question is the perception of the clients. I think lenses makes a big impression. All else being equal, if the client sees a photographer with a nice lens, then she assumes that he's a good photographer. We can debate this but why debate when you can eliminate this part?
About the camera, I think the 5D III will make him a little more efficient because of the focusing, especially when using fast lenses. Some will argue that they can do both equally fast and in that case, the 5D II is fine. The other advantage is the dual card slots. If he's shooting that many clients, better to have backups. It takes one client's negative posting on the web to really screw things up.
If he or you maxed out already, the next question is the perception of the clients. I think lenses makes a big impression. All else being equal, if the client sees a photographer with a nice lens, then she assumes that he's a good photographer. We can debate this but why debate when you can eliminate this part?
About the camera, I think the 5D III will make him a little more efficient because of the focusing, especially when using fast lenses. Some will argue that they can do both equally fast and in that case, the 5D II is fine. The other advantage is the dual card slots. If he's shooting that many clients, better to have backups. It takes one client's negative posting on the web to really screw things up.
Jul 18, 2014 at 12:51 PM
p.2 #5$10K - $12K / Month, what camera?
gheller wrote:
He is the primary photographer for a very busy destination wedding coordinator. They do at least 100 weddings per month, and he shoots the majority of them. Add that to his regular client base (family portraits and real estate) and he is one busy dood.
*counting on my fingers and thinking "...majority of 100 = greater than 50..."
Wow. He's shooting almost 2 weddings a day, plus portraits and houses?
Geez. He is busy.
He is the primary photographer for a very busy destination wedding coordinator. They do at least 100 weddings per month, and he shoots the majority of them. Add that to his regular client base (family portraits and real estate) and he is one busy dood.
*counting on my fingers and thinking "...majority of 100 = greater than 50..."
Wow. He's shooting almost 2 weddings a day, plus portraits and houses?
Geez. He is busy.
Jul 19, 2014 at 07:19 AM
glort
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p.2 #6$10K - $12K / Month, what camera?
In peak season of 4 months in one of my markets, I frequently do $20K+ a month.
The cameras I use? Canon G1X's.
Yep, the compact point and shoot jobs.
Perfect for the work I do and to my amazement, I have been flogging the things at up to 80,000 frames per month for 3 seasons now and I haven't had a failure yet. I'm pretty amazed with the things.
I also take them with me and shoot far more of my own social and family pics on them than anything else. They do look a bit funny with a Big 680 style speedlight sitting on the top but the results can't be faulted and the ease of use is better than an SLR as well.
I really don't see what the income you are generating has to do with what camera you should use. The camera you should use is the one that best does the job for the lowest overheads. Thats just straight out basic business/ accounting. ANything else is either bad business or self gratification.
I realise it's hypothetical, but by the same time it also sounds like another load of forum mentality from people who know bugger all about businessbut are equipment obsessed.
The only thing that should matter is having the right gear for the job. My P&S cameras do more than I need for the work I do and have features I use that a 1D doesn't. Sure I could drop $8K per camera plus lens and about another $3K on accessories or I can use the P&S jobs all accessorised for what I need for about $1100 a piece.
In business, it makes no sense to over capitalise. In photography you have the ego tripping wank factor which reigns supreme but somehow I never caught that disese. I get more of a kick out of being able to do what I want with a cheap camera rather than one that Blows my nose and wipes my backside for me.
Keeping my equipment costs to a minimum and still exceeding the required quality expectations of the clients allows me to have greater profits on things that massage my ego a lot more than camera gear.... Like buying my wife and kids nice things and spoiling them.
Any clown can buy expensive equipment, not so many can make a successful business especially in the photographic game.
Jul 21, 2014 at 06:37 AM
p.2 #7$10K - $12K / Month, what camera?
I gotta ask - what kind of work are you doing glort??
Jul 22, 2014 at 08:47 PM
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p.2 #8$10K - $12K / Month, what camera?
Basicaly, Schools.
Jul 22, 2014 at 10:43 PM
p.2 #10$10K - $12K / Month, what camera?
Not to diminish the school gig, but that type of event really doesn't demand top gear and the advanced P/S should be more than adequate. I assume it is kids' headshots, class shots, etc. for a yearbook and the like.
We are also talking about year-round, not just a 4 month/year span.
I am really interested in hearing about proper pro gear for outdoors, very high actuations (read: minimum 25K shots per month).
Just seems to warrant a "1" series body while shooting at the beach, often in light rain, etc.
Aloha
greg
We are also talking about year-round, not just a 4 month/year span.
I am really interested in hearing about proper pro gear for outdoors, very high actuations (read: minimum 25K shots per month).
Just seems to warrant a "1" series body while shooting at the beach, often in light rain, etc.
Aloha
greg
Jul 23, 2014 at 11:10 AM
p.2 #11$10K - $12K / Month, what camera?
tuantran wrote:
This guys sounds like you Greg. Do you want a liberal response or conservative response?
Liberal: You deserve a 5D III/1Dx
Conservative: You don't need a 5D III/1Dx
I'm going into hiding after this response.
No no no, liberal is "You deserve a PhaseOne IQ280."
This guys sounds like you Greg. Do you want a liberal response or conservative response?
Liberal: You deserve a 5D III/1Dx
Conservative: You don't need a 5D III/1Dx
I'm going into hiding after this response.
No no no, liberal is "You deserve a PhaseOne IQ280."
Jul 23, 2014 at 12:00 PM
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p.2 #12$10K - $12K / Month, what camera?
gheller wrote:
Not to diminish the school gig, but that type of event really doesn't demand top gear and the advanced P/S should be more than adequate.
Yep.
That was basicaly the illustration of my point that you only need what suits the job and the income derived is irrelevant.
To say I earn 12K per month so therefore I need XXX camera is absurd. IF I earn 50K a month, do I suddenly need a medium format with a leaf back to shoot T&I or Cheer?
I'm failing to see what the relationship is betweeen income and the appropriatness or value of gear for the tasks required.
I assume it is kids' headshots, class shots, etc. for a yearbook and the like.
No, nothing like that but irrelevant anyway.
We are also talking about year-round, not just a 4 month/year span.
I am really interested in hearing about proper pro gear for outdoors, very high actuations (read: minimum 25K shots per month).
Just seems to warrant a "1" series body while shooting at the beach, often in light rain, etc.
Aloha
greg
Hmmm, sounds like you want to be told what you are hoping to hear.
I would say 80K actuations per month for 4 months is a lot more than the majority of shooters do for business purposes in a year.
In any case, 25K x 12 = 300K pa.
80K x4 =320K pa.
Should I get a 1D simply because I take that many pics a year?
Putting price and quality requirements aside, NO.
The thing is too big, especially seeing I need to fit a lens as well that would be almost as big as the G1X itself, it would be too heavy, the accessories I use would be far more costly, It would most probably scare the younger kids I shoot as I have heard has happened with people before me using these type bodies, I don't want to give my staff $10K plus worth of camera's to carry around, they don't have the specific features I depend on for the work I do and they would be a totally gross overcaptialisation.
Do I have the pic numbers to justify one, certainly! Could I afford them? Obviously.
Does that mean they are the right gear for the job. Not in a million years!
What sort of work do you envisage people doing 25K shots a month with? Even for the spray and pray wedding shooters, that's over 4K shots for 6 weddings per month. For a portrait shooter, that's 25 sittings at 1000 frames each or 50 sittings @ 500 frames each. Not likley!
For a sports shooter, still an unreasonably high frame rate and I very much doubt you would be pulling 12K a month from that.
Surprisingly, people with " Proper" gear don't tend to shoot these stupid high frame numbers some quote, they have no need to. There is only one thing I can think of where you would shoot those kind of numbers which I exceeded a couple of weekends back by shooting 30K frames in 1 DAY.
Cheer.
If you are doing that then yes, a 1D would be totally appropriate but for other reasons than shutter actuations or income derived.
You have gone from asking:
"Hypothetical Question:
What model (Canon specifically) should a photographer have if earning that kind of money?
Have a buddy that is in this range and uses 5D / 5DII
Thoughts?"
To:
I am really interested in hearing about proper pro gear for outdoors, very high actuations (read: minimum 25K shots per month).
Just seems to warrant a "1" series body while shooting at the beach, often in light rain, etc."
What seems to warrant a 1D? The 12K a month hypothetically earned or the 25K actuations?
Is that what you want to hear? You need a 1D? Are you hankering for a 1D but just looking for justification for your accountant, wife, girlfriend, mother or yourself?
If the first question is what you want to know about, it's as I said, one that does the job to the quality standards required. Again, the income derived is IRRELEVANT.
If you want someone to tell you that you need to buy a 1D, just go buy one!!
You haven't said what you hypothetically want to shoot and I'm not clear on what the real question is now so it's hard to tell you what you want to hypothetically know or hear that being the case.
Not to diminish the school gig, but that type of event really doesn't demand top gear and the advanced P/S should be more than adequate.
Yep.
That was basicaly the illustration of my point that you only need what suits the job and the income derived is irrelevant.
To say I earn 12K per month so therefore I need XXX camera is absurd. IF I earn 50K a month, do I suddenly need a medium format with a leaf back to shoot T&I or Cheer?
I'm failing to see what the relationship is betweeen income and the appropriatness or value of gear for the tasks required.
I assume it is kids' headshots, class shots, etc. for a yearbook and the like.
No, nothing like that but irrelevant anyway.
We are also talking about year-round, not just a 4 month/year span.
I am really interested in hearing about proper pro gear for outdoors, very high actuations (read: minimum 25K shots per month).
Just seems to warrant a "1" series body while shooting at the beach, often in light rain, etc.
Aloha
greg
Hmmm, sounds like you want to be told what you are hoping to hear.
I would say 80K actuations per month for 4 months is a lot more than the majority of shooters do for business purposes in a year.
In any case, 25K x 12 = 300K pa.
80K x4 =320K pa.
Should I get a 1D simply because I take that many pics a year?
Putting price and quality requirements aside, NO.
The thing is too big, especially seeing I need to fit a lens as well that would be almost as big as the G1X itself, it would be too heavy, the accessories I use would be far more costly, It would most probably scare the younger kids I shoot as I have heard has happened with people before me using these type bodies, I don't want to give my staff $10K plus worth of camera's to carry around, they don't have the specific features I depend on for the work I do and they would be a totally gross overcaptialisation.
Do I have the pic numbers to justify one, certainly! Could I afford them? Obviously.
Does that mean they are the right gear for the job. Not in a million years!
What sort of work do you envisage people doing 25K shots a month with? Even for the spray and pray wedding shooters, that's over 4K shots for 6 weddings per month. For a portrait shooter, that's 25 sittings at 1000 frames each or 50 sittings @ 500 frames each. Not likley!
For a sports shooter, still an unreasonably high frame rate and I very much doubt you would be pulling 12K a month from that.
Surprisingly, people with " Proper" gear don't tend to shoot these stupid high frame numbers some quote, they have no need to. There is only one thing I can think of where you would shoot those kind of numbers which I exceeded a couple of weekends back by shooting 30K frames in 1 DAY.
Cheer.
If you are doing that then yes, a 1D would be totally appropriate but for other reasons than shutter actuations or income derived.
You have gone from asking:
"Hypothetical Question:
What model (Canon specifically) should a photographer have if earning that kind of money?
Have a buddy that is in this range and uses 5D / 5DII
Thoughts?"
To:
I am really interested in hearing about proper pro gear for outdoors, very high actuations (read: minimum 25K shots per month).
Just seems to warrant a "1" series body while shooting at the beach, often in light rain, etc."
What seems to warrant a 1D? The 12K a month hypothetically earned or the 25K actuations?
Is that what you want to hear? You need a 1D? Are you hankering for a 1D but just looking for justification for your accountant, wife, girlfriend, mother or yourself?
If the first question is what you want to know about, it's as I said, one that does the job to the quality standards required. Again, the income derived is IRRELEVANT.
If you want someone to tell you that you need to buy a 1D, just go buy one!!
You haven't said what you hypothetically want to shoot and I'm not clear on what the real question is now so it's hard to tell you what you want to hypothetically know or hear that being the case.
Jul 24, 2014 at 08:37 AM
p.2 #13$10K - $12K / Month, what camera?
Hmmm. Interesting read glort, albeit a bit hostile for no apparent reason.
The point was to open up a discussion and I am glad that I have received some valuable insight.
Don't be fooled, though. 150 small jobs / month @ 150 shots per job is hardly "spray and prey" (to make 20K shots per month). It is quite easy to shoot 100+ shots in an hour hitting the shutter one at a time.
It is quite obvious that the photographer makes the image, not the camera... that wasn't my thought.
My point was that a *very* busy photographer (I guess I could have said 150+ gigs per month, rather than income), might warrant owning a "1" series body; especially when having to shoot in inclement weather.
Keep the discussion going!
Aloha
greg
The point was to open up a discussion and I am glad that I have received some valuable insight.
Don't be fooled, though. 150 small jobs / month @ 150 shots per job is hardly "spray and prey" (to make 20K shots per month). It is quite easy to shoot 100+ shots in an hour hitting the shutter one at a time.
It is quite obvious that the photographer makes the image, not the camera... that wasn't my thought.
My point was that a *very* busy photographer (I guess I could have said 150+ gigs per month, rather than income), might warrant owning a "1" series body; especially when having to shoot in inclement weather.
Keep the discussion going!
Aloha
greg
Jul 24, 2014 at 11:14 AM
p.2 #14$10K - $12K / Month, what camera?
In some scenarios, income is a factor. Not a practical scenario but a scenario no less. It's the scenario where you are craving for something and need to justify that craving.
For many people out there, we don't need a bimmer or a benz. In most cases, those people shouldn't buy those cars because they really can't afford them.
So the op's original question is probably interpreted as "at my income range, what camera can I treat myself?"
For many people out there, we don't need a bimmer or a benz. In most cases, those people shouldn't buy those cars because they really can't afford them.
So the op's original question is probably interpreted as "at my income range, what camera can I treat myself?"
Jul 24, 2014 at 11:31 AM
p.2 #15$10K - $12K / Month, what camera?
If you go to the US passport office in our area and don't have a passport photo to go with your application, they send you to this café right across the street which also does passport photos. These guys use the cheapest P&S they could find - the tiny ones with tiny sensors - and use the built-in popup flash. No studio lights here - just sit in front of a white wall, off goes the popup flash and you are done. The print is produced right away on one of the $50 photo printers. And they charge something like $30 a pop out of that setup for 2 prints. I wonder how much money they make from that "equipment" considering that in the 10 minutes I was there, 2-3 more people came in for the same job. Even my local photography shop which is a reputed name in the area and sells a bunch of high-end gear still use a 30D with some old slow zoom for such photos and charge about $20 for that.
Jul 24, 2014 at 11:33 AM
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p.2 #16$10K - $12K / Month, what camera?
gheller wrote:
My point was that a *very* busy photographer (I guess I could have said 150+ gigs per month, rather than income), might warrant owning a "1" series body; especially when having to shoot in inclement weather.
I can't imagine anyone doing 150 jobs a month but hypothetically, that's only $80 per job so you would hope with that amount of work the income was a lot above $12K.
One would at least need to be employing someone else, probably 2 people if they had that work load because at 5 jobs per day, every day of the month, there simply is no way for one person to be handling booking people in and then getting the finished product to them let alone everything else required in the middle and that's not even thinking of the administration side of the biz doing things like paying bills, doing bookwork and taxes etc.
And thats 5 jobs if you don't take any days off. If you do work the normal 5 days a week, thats 15 jobs every 2 days.... outdoors? wow, that's really pushing things unless you have an outdoor studio amd if you are turning people every hour, That's going to be Looong days.... probably longer than daylight allows in most places.
It seems a very far fetched scenariob but yes, that workload might warrant a 1 series body.
Or a Hassleblad with a digital back.... or an 8x10 View camera....
There is another scenario I can think of that may justify a 1 series body that I have come across.... Tax writeoffs.
I had that problem a while back but instead of bodies I went for lenses. The don't depreciate like bodys and were more useful to me with the bodies I have ( not that I have used many of the bunch I bought) but if one had or was advised to get some gear to ease the tax situation, I series bodys could be good tax writeoffs that wouldn't draw too much attention from tax departments and get rid of the excess income pretty efficently.
Where I am, you can choose what period to write that amount off so you could buy the things, sell them 2 months later, put the cash under the pillow and claim the full amount in that tax year.
May be a bit difficult doing that every year but.... Hypothetically....
In some scenarios, income is a factor. Not a practical scenario but a scenario no less. It's the scenario where you are craving for something and need to justify that craving. So the op's original question is probably interpreted as "at my income range, what camera can I treat myself?"
Yeah, I think that's a lot closer to the mark.
Photographers in general on forums especially seem to have severe and widespread cases of geargottahave itis.
The more expensive the gear, the better shooter it proves you to be.
You only have to look at forums every time a new high end body is released. People find all sorts of reasons to get rid of their 12 or less month old camera to get the latest one, which frequently have to be sent back to get bugs and things fixed, because suddenly, they work they are doing changes to make only that newest camera the only thing suitable for the wedding/ portrait/ sports/ whatever work they have done for years to shoot it.
My point was that a *very* busy photographer (I guess I could have said 150+ gigs per month, rather than income), might warrant owning a "1" series body; especially when having to shoot in inclement weather.
I can't imagine anyone doing 150 jobs a month but hypothetically, that's only $80 per job so you would hope with that amount of work the income was a lot above $12K.
One would at least need to be employing someone else, probably 2 people if they had that work load because at 5 jobs per day, every day of the month, there simply is no way for one person to be handling booking people in and then getting the finished product to them let alone everything else required in the middle and that's not even thinking of the administration side of the biz doing things like paying bills, doing bookwork and taxes etc.
And thats 5 jobs if you don't take any days off. If you do work the normal 5 days a week, thats 15 jobs every 2 days.... outdoors? wow, that's really pushing things unless you have an outdoor studio amd if you are turning people every hour, That's going to be Looong days.... probably longer than daylight allows in most places.
It seems a very far fetched scenariob but yes, that workload might warrant a 1 series body.
Or a Hassleblad with a digital back.... or an 8x10 View camera....
There is another scenario I can think of that may justify a 1 series body that I have come across.... Tax writeoffs.
I had that problem a while back but instead of bodies I went for lenses. The don't depreciate like bodys and were more useful to me with the bodies I have ( not that I have used many of the bunch I bought) but if one had or was advised to get some gear to ease the tax situation, I series bodys could be good tax writeoffs that wouldn't draw too much attention from tax departments and get rid of the excess income pretty efficently.
Where I am, you can choose what period to write that amount off so you could buy the things, sell them 2 months later, put the cash under the pillow and claim the full amount in that tax year.
May be a bit difficult doing that every year but.... Hypothetically....
In some scenarios, income is a factor. Not a practical scenario but a scenario no less. It's the scenario where you are craving for something and need to justify that craving. So the op's original question is probably interpreted as "at my income range, what camera can I treat myself?"
Yeah, I think that's a lot closer to the mark.
Photographers in general on forums especially seem to have severe and widespread cases of geargottahave itis.
The more expensive the gear, the better shooter it proves you to be.
You only have to look at forums every time a new high end body is released. People find all sorts of reasons to get rid of their 12 or less month old camera to get the latest one, which frequently have to be sent back to get bugs and things fixed, because suddenly, they work they are doing changes to make only that newest camera the only thing suitable for the wedding/ portrait/ sports/ whatever work they have done for years to shoot it.
Jul 24, 2014 at 05:23 PM
p.2 #17$10K - $12K / Month, what camera?
Lots of speculation, but what warrants a high end body to me is the high end features it has. Whether its the high speed fps, high ISO, or weather sealing. IMO, you know what you need. If you don't know, you don't need it.
Aug 12, 2014 at 12:18 PM
p.2 #18$10K - $12K / Month, what camera?
Might want to turn this around.
How many jobs do I need to pay for a high end camera?
Not many for a T3i, A cr@p-ton for your Hasselblad H5D.
How many jobs do I need to pay for a high end camera?
Not many for a T3i, A cr@p-ton for your Hasselblad H5D.
Aug 14, 2014 at 09:00 AM
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p.2 #19$10K - $12K / Month, what camera?
I think the 5d has better dynamic range. Certainly capable of low contrast. Why not use the 5d? Plenty of quality imo. 5d2 great also, I suspect.
I'm not a big fan of buying new gear. Use what works
I know a guy. I think he still uses his 35-350 for magazine shoots. If he quit it's probably been recent. Not the hottest lens, but good
He's only charging $100 for weddings?.
People don't always give accurate numbers on such things. How do you know?
I'm not a big fan of buying new gear. Use what works
I know a guy. I think he still uses his 35-350 for magazine shoots. If he quit it's probably been recent. Not the hottest lens, but good
He's only charging $100 for weddings?
.People don't always give accurate numbers on such things. How do you know?
Aug 14, 2014 at 04:45 PM
p.2 #20$10K - $12K / Month, what camera?
gheller wrote:
As for "gross" vs "net" ...
Since photographers have virtually no overhead (once they own their gear), those numbers are much closer than in most professions.
His studio is in his home, so no rent...
I guess there is insurance, and perhaps some other minor stuff, but no rent, no staff, no printing (transfers everything online).
Just about the perfect business model, if you ask me. 25 hours of shooting, another 5 - 10 editing... $120K + per year.
Not really this simple, even as a one-man operation a photography business is still a business.
Self-employment tax, liability and other insurance, equipment wear and tear, accounting, advertising, licenses, etc.
People think that photographers are just raking in the money, but in reality it is probably his wife's steady job that is making his life possible. If he was a sole provider he would barely be making enough to make ends meet and feed his family once all the costs were paid.
As for "gross" vs "net" ...
Since photographers have virtually no overhead (once they own their gear), those numbers are much closer than in most professions.
His studio is in his home, so no rent...
I guess there is insurance, and perhaps some other minor stuff, but no rent, no staff, no printing (transfers everything online).
Just about the perfect business model, if you ask me. 25 hours of shooting, another 5 - 10 editing... $120K + per year.
Not really this simple, even as a one-man operation a photography business is still a business.
Self-employment tax, liability and other insurance, equipment wear and tear, accounting, advertising, licenses, etc.
People think that photographers are just raking in the money, but in reality it is probably his wife's steady job that is making his life possible. If he was a sole provider he would barely be making enough to make ends meet and feed his family once all the costs were paid.
Aug 14, 2014 at 05:01 PM