sb in ak wrote:
I'd probably wait for Canon. But...then again. Life's short.
I got tired...and older. But the D800 isn't just for landscapes. When I'm shooting whales or eagles I often encounter very high DR scenes (mountain snow or white clouds in the BG, dark whales or eagles in the foreground, etc.) and if I can make due with 1.2 crop shooting and 5 fps I feel pretty good about the D800 files. Edit: having the extra DR is also nice for many challenging still lifes/portraiture where lighting is an issue.
I'm trying my best not to be a Canon or Nikon fanboy in this. Whether the 5D3 or D800/e is better for a particular photog is up to that photog to decide (a good buddy of mine and frequent photo partner is a well known SE AK nature/editorial/lifestyle photog who shoots Canon and will never switch and isn't at all interested in trying out my D800 - what he's got works for him and it's helping put his kid thru school and paying for his house, boat, etc. - more power to him - I only occasionally tweak him by sending him files/commentary comparing D800 images with 5D3 images ). I'm just trying to inject some user experiences into the discussion. I find the build of the 5D3 better and the UIs about the same once used to them. Each has pros and cons to their software functions as well. Just as each has their own design foibles and triumphs. If pushed tho, I will admit to being a 36MP Exmor Sony sensor fanboy I suppose Throw the DR and other qualities of the 36MP Exmor sensor in a Canon made 24MP or whatever sensor and I never would have been tempted by the D800.
How's the weather up there? Getting a winter? We're getting some bouts of heavy snow that are soon undone by bouts or warm rain
akclimber wrote:
If pushed tho, I will admit to being a 36MP Exmor Sony sensor fanboy I suppose Throw the DR and other qualities of the 36MP Exmor sensor in a Canon made 24MP or whatever sensor and I never would have been tempted by the D800.
Absolutely - the resolution and shadow recovery are indisputable. Highlights are on a par IMHO. However, when it comes to pure blacks it's not so cut-and-dry - the D800(e) still shows considerable noise when lifting blacks.
The sensor of the 5D3 is sorely lacking in terms of the ability to recover shadow detail. But overall I prefer shooting with it due to its ergonomics and responsiveness.
I agree, if the 5D3 had 'that' sensor in it and nothing else changed... it would have been what it should have been.
gdanmitchell wrote:
I think a lot of folks way over-think this whole issue. Both Nikon and Canon make excellent full frame cameras, along with lenses and flash units and the rest.
if you don't already own a brand, your choice might be one or the other depending upon your particular needs. For some photographers in this unlikely category, Canon's AF, service, lenses, and so forth might be more important. For others the higher MP resolution of the D800/D800e might push them in that direction. Whichever such a person gets, it will be a fine camera - with its own set of pluses and minuses. In the field, you can make tremendous photographs with gear from either brand.
But such people - needing a high end DSLR system and not owning any DSLR gear yet - are a rare breed. I've met exactly one.
If you already own one brand or the other, while envying certain features of the other brand is understandable (yes, I look forward to a higher MP Canon body), switching brands is almost never a sensible decision. Brand A may be better on some counts now and Brand B on others, but in this continuous game of catch-up and then one-upmanship that is the camera industry the advantage will almost always swing back and forth between brands on a regular basis. Trying to switch to keep up is a (very expensive) lost cause, and the potential change in the quality of your photographs will generally range from non-existent to trivial.
And if anyone thinks that this thread has a hope of a chance of resolving the (strange) question of whether Brand A or Brand B is "best," don't hold your breath.
Dan, I have to disagree with you here. You ignore the fact that many 5D MkII shooters find themselves now in a trapped position with Canon after being vested well in Canon lens gear but missing the continuous 5D development which was up to the MkII leading in the sensor technology. This has changed with the MkIII which no longer provided Canon users with leading edge sensor technology. Saying that most people wouldn't make use of such high MP/higer DR sensor is not true. Not everybody who needs a better sensor needs to print large. I would love to have such better sensor as it is currently in the D800 series and in the A7R to get better DR in my landscape photos, to be able to crop better for wildlife and macro shots, and last but not least in my microscopy application where every better sensor resolution is always a plus.
I would agree with you that switching brands is normally not advantageous. I always supported this opinion, but I am getting doubts now. It seems that Canon and Nikon start moving in different ways - Canon is looking more after the video and event/sports shooters crowd while Nikon is more attached to the landscape/fine art crowd with recent camera developments (and I clearly belong to the second crowd mentioned). I have hoped two years ago that Canon will catch up quickly and release a camera sensor similar to the Exmor technology which unfortunately has not happened (still a surprise to me) - and likely won't even happen before end of 2014 (and this could even be a disappointment again, who knows!). This lack in Canon's current camera line is a big bummer IMO.
I still love my Canon lens gear - but this is the only great thing which I currently like about Canon. I am continuing to use my MkII camera and it ifs fine for now but next year I am seriously considering a switch of brands if Canon remains complacent.
retrofocus wrote:
I still love my Canon lens gear - but this is the only great thing which I currently like about Canon. I am continuing to use my MkII camera and it ifs fine for now but next year I am seriously considering a switch of brands if Canon remains complacent.
This is a large part of the reason why Canon has not responded to the D800 quickly. Even the most ardent proponents of high MP/low ISO DR will wait. It's not even on the radar for the majority of users.
ggreene wrote:
This is a large part of the reason why Canon has not responded to the D800 quickly. Even the most ardent proponents of high MP/low ISO DR will wait. It's not even on the radar for the majority of users.
Canon did not respond to the D800(E) because they didn't (and don't) have this sensor technology. Canon was simply overrun.
In my group of photo friends nobody yet switched from Canon to Nikon or vice-versa even many of us are unsatisfied with Canon's current development regarding cameras. Two of my friends who fit more into the group of event and action shooters upgraded more recently to the MkIII after the price dropped below $2800. But what I see is that some recently added the Sony A7 or the A7R to their existing Canon (in one case Nikon) gear and are very happy with it especially those who like travelling a lot. I think that the latest mirriorless Sony cameras have a more negative effect on Canon than Nikon had with the D800(E) series.
The big majority of the photographers I know desire a new higher MP/better DR sensor if it would be available. This is the main reason of the current A7R's sales success and demand for it.
retrofocus wrote:
Canon did not respond to the D800(E) because they didn't (and don't) have this sensor technology. Canon was simply overrun.
In my group of photo friends nobody yet switched from Canon to Nikon or vice-versa even many of us are unsatisfied with Canon's current development regarding cameras. Two of my friends who fit more into the group of event and action shooters upgraded more recently to the MkIII after the price dropped below $2800. But what I see is that some recently added the Sony A7 or the A7R to their existing Canon (in one case Nikon) gear and are very happy with it especially those who like travelling a lot. I think that the latest mirriorless Sony cameras have a more negative effect on Canon than Nikon had with the D800(E) series.
The big majority of the photographers I know desire a new higher MP/better DR sensor if it would be available. This is the main reason of the current A7R's sales success and demand for it....Show more →
Strange that neither Nikon nor Sony has been able to put a dent in Canon's DSLR market share in the past couple of years - maybe you need a larger group of photo friends?
molson wrote:
Strange that neither Nikon nor Sony has been able to put a dent in Canon's DSLR market share in the past couple of years - maybe you need a larger group of photo friends?
Maybe not in the overall DSLR share (and we are not talking about this number) but very well so in the FF DSLR shares. I agree that the group of my friends mentioned above is of no statistical siginificance, but talking to a friend of mine in a camera store, he clearly mentioned this by seeing camera-specific sales numbers in his store. Too early to say how much dent the A7(R) models will give but likely it will be a very visible dent.
akclimber wrote:
How's the weather up there? Getting a winter? We're getting some bouts of heavy snow that are soon undone by bouts or warm rain
We've been in a chilly spell up here in Homer. Last few days have been sunny, gorgeous and cold with some fresh snow so I really need to get the skis out. Supposed to warm up and rain by sometime next week so I better get on that. I've always wanted to explore the Juneau area. I love Southeast. Went through there on the ferry a few weeks ago.
Now that there is the Sony A7r, I think that gives Canon users a nice way of using their existing glass on a FF body for landscape.
The Leica M9 has the most beautiful file I've ever seen from a 35mm based camera and it rates as the worst FF sensor on the geeks bible, DXO Labs. Canon's have the prettiest colors, specially skin tones, compared to any camera not containing a Kodak CCD sensor yet they rank second to last on the geeks bible.
The camera that rates the highest has the worst color, specially skin tones, of any modern camera I've used in recent times.
Now if your first love is B&W there is nothing better than having a sensor with high DR. For color shooters, the color itself is significantly more important.
ggreene wrote:
This is a large part of the reason why Canon has not responded to the D800 quickly. Even the most ardent proponents of high MP/low ISO DR will wait. It's not even on the radar for the majority of users.
Canon is in business to make money and the cash cow is not at the high end of the market, but at the Rebel end of the market. Canon has so far given this market what they want, while trickle feeding the high end with enough improvements to keep them mostly happy. After all despite the whining about the 5D III, nearly every body that owns one loves it. Now of course I think the cow has been milked dry and they will and must finally cater to the higher end. However, new sensor tech will be of benefit right through the range and shrug off suggestions Canon doesn't innovate, so I would hope they would migrate improvements right through the range.
Orlov wrote:
Surprisingly there are no threads arguing about this, and I'm in the market for a new camera as I'm getting back into photography. I do a lot of product photography but also like to do street photography and some landscape. I want to make sure I hear from everyone with experience with the cameras and weigh the pros and cons before pulling the trigger. So what do you guys think, 5DIII or D800e? And why?
Simple, if Image Quality is your #1 priority then the Nikon D800E is the best choice no question, specially for product and landscape. Why? It has the best image quality bar none in a DSLR.
The Canon 5d3 does offers better AF performance and consistency and also better live view. It is also a slightly faster Camera and very good at high iso. That' about it.
sb in ak wrote:
We've been in a chilly spell up here in Homer. Last few days have been sunny, gorgeous and cold with some fresh snow so I really need to get the skis out. Supposed to warm up and rain by sometime next week so I better get on that. I've always wanted to explore the Juneau area. I love Southeast. Went through there on the ferry a few weeks ago.
Now that there is the Sony A7r, I think that gives Canon users a nice way of using their existing glass on a FF body for landscape.
Agree with ya about the A7R. I'm keeping my eyes on it. Probably wait until the A9R or whatever the next gen will be unless Canon introduces a similar sensor. I'd really love to use my 24 TSE MK II on that sensor.
Good luck with skiing! Lemme know if you head down this way if you want a shooting partner or some suggestions for stuff to do/shoot or places to visit. If you head down in the Spring or Summer and my schedule and the weather permits, I'd be happy to chase whales in my boat with ya.
dehowie wrote:
The AF systems are far from the same.
The Nikon forums everywhere have complaints from numerous users regarding poor AF performance.
Sorry they are far from similar.
If you get a good one your ok but as evidenced by numerous complaint posts that is problematic at best.
Talk up D800 AF all you like user complaints speak louder than posts praising it and there are far more of them.
D800 IQ is only superior if you choose to boost shadows by more than two stops.
Ie you are trying to shoot a HDR image in one shot or you buggered the exposure.
These shots will not look natural or well exposed unless used very tactfully.
The ability to boost shadows is an advantage but nothing like the amount of noise generated by the subject.
From the noise generated you would think all we photograph is shadows..
I would rather have a great AF system than shadow pushing more than two stops. No amount of pushing will save a OOF image on a sensor which requires more accuracy not less.
As for lenses if you have used both systems you already know why people have chosen Canon.
All the D800 has to offer is shadow recovery at extreme values and higher res if you can find a lens to take advantage of it which many of Nikons offerings can not.
If you want to blow an image up to 48" and your lucky enough to be shooting with something like a 14-24 you will get some great images. The 5DMk3 is just as capable and in many situations more capable offering better FPS,better AF completely superior live view enabling far more opportunities to get better images than simply when you need crazy shadow recovery.
If all we photographed was shadows id heartily recommend the D800 but the histogram is composed of far more than just shadows..
If you like Nikon buy the D800 if you like Canon get a Mk3 both are equally capable of superb images.....Show more →
You're referring to the left AF point issue that affected a small batch of early release d800's. This problem has been solved over a year ago, and wasn't much of a problem to begin with. The d800 has a fantastic AF system. Go look at the post on here of the guy that shot a polo match , or of the many examples of people using the continuous AF modes. The 5d3 can't track faces, can't track an assigned AF target, and can't use color to assist its AF system. It also has no AF assist light and can't focus in the dark. The d800 can. Now crawl back to your cubicle and quit rehashing outdated information when it's clear you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
Why are recent Canon-to-Nikon converts show that much hatred towards their previous brand? Canon didn't deliver what you wanted in a camera? Great, you already made the switch anyway. Life goes on! BTW, I am referring more to the tone of your recent posts here and on the Nikon + other boards related to this matter.
jamesmorophoto wrote:
You're referring to the left AF point issue that affected a small batch of early release d800's. This problem has been solved over a year ago, and wasn't much of a problem to begin with.
That is not quite correct . It took Nikon quite sometime to finally fix the issue. In the beginning, the Nikon service center didn't even know how to fix the problem. The ironic thing was, Nikon kept on cranking out new cameras with left side AF issues until the end of 2012 or may be even a little bit later. Thom Hogan didn't even recommend the camera because of this. How many cameras did get affected? Quite a few, but nobody knows how many. It could be 15-20% but for sure not a small batch, like you described. If you dig down into the archived threads in the Nikon Board, you will find out all about this issue. Maybe you were not aware of this because you were still using Canon back then .
AGeoJO wrote:
Why are recent Canon-to-Nikon converts show that much hatred towards their previous brand? .
Not seeing a lot of hatred. Maybe a lot of criticism, but not a lot of hatred. Maybe some of the vibe you're picking up is from some of us Canon users who are just disappointed/frustrated in Canon for not stepping up its sensor game. I know I am. I didn't want to go dual system and really wish Canon had produced something on (near) equal footing with the D800e, sensor-wise.
Peace and good wishes to all of us in CanNikSony land!
Joe, I am not referring to you at all but to the poster just above my post and again, not necessarily showing on this particular thread but plenty others where he was showing his feeling, everything (well, almost) about Canon is bad and everything (again, almost) about Nikon is good. I am definitely not brand loyal and I am not defending Canon. Feel free to check my profile. I must have been bored and didn't have anything better to do when I posted mine above .
AGeoJO wrote:
Joe, I am not referring to you at all but to the poster just above my post and again, not necessarily showing on this particular thread but plenty others where he was showing his feeling, everything (well, almost) about Canon is bad and everything (again, almost) about Nikon is good. I am definitely not brand loyal and I am not defending Canon. Feel free to check my profile.
I get ya - no worries!
It's funny - I just realized that despite all my pro Exmor sensor/D800e talk, that, for a show I'm hanging next month, all 15 images were made with a 5D3, using its more varied multiple exposure functions (compared to the D800e). Go figure. Horses for courses, I guess
I got tired...and older. But the D800 isn't just for landscapes. When I'm shooting whales or eagles I often encounter very high DR scenes (mountain snow or white clouds in the BG, dark whales or eagles in the foreground, etc.) and if I can make due with 1.2 crop shooting and 5 fps I feel pretty good about the D800 files. Edit: having the extra DR is also nice for many challenging still lifes/portraiture where lighting is an issue.
. It took Nikon quite sometime to finally fix the issue. In the beginning, the Nikon service center didn't even know how to fix the problem. The ironic thing was, Nikon kept on cranking out new cameras with left side AF issues until the end of 2012 or may be even a little bit later. Thom Hogan didn't even recommend the camera because of this. How many cameras did get affected? Quite a few, but nobody knows how many. It could be 15-20% but for sure not a small batch, like you described. If you dig down into the archived threads in the Nikon Board, you will find out all about this issue. Maybe you were not aware of this because you were still using Canon back then 
Not seeing a lot of hatred. Maybe a lot of criticism, but not a lot of hatred. Maybe some of the vibe you're picking up is from some of us Canon users who are just disappointed/frustrated in Canon for not stepping up its sensor game. I know I am. I didn't want to go dual system and really wish Canon had produced something on (near) equal footing with the D800e, sensor-wise.