p.50 #1 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
KiboOst wrote:
+1000
astonishing to see how a leader in sensor tech a few years ago can now be so behind ...
Yeah the writing was on the wall long ago. As I've said if you heard the way some of their execs talked at the euro Canon show many years back all it was what? what? why would we feel the need to do this or that or work on that we are the kings of the hill! We are at least a decade ahead of Nikon even arriving to FF (Nikon arrived to FF a few months later )! We are kings of hill and we have no need for a fast performance FF! We have no need! We are kings! And then with all the ridiculous games with MFA being locked out of the 40D firmware and then again in the 60D (As one rep mistakenly let lose, so as the 70D could look better and have more 'new' features compared to the 60D!) and the whole dribbling out AutoISO over more than a decade and with the new firmware the 1DX finally gets what every other makes has had in there rebels for years.
As soon as I heard that presentation I flooded the forum with whining hoping to wake them up so we wouldn't be where we are today, but nobody realize you have to think way ahead and it was laughed off as trolling back then.
Maybe Canon doesn't care though as they still pocket the new fab money and that it better for them and they don't care what users think so long as they have enough to make some sales. Part of me thinks had they pushed full ahead they'd have been so ahead of Nikon they'd have wiped them out, or nearly so, and had sales more than enough to pay for the fabs and more (although I suppose long, long term no Nikon might have been a bad thing).
Anyway we can hope the long delays for more MP and 7D2 and such are because they are waiting for a new exmor-like sensor and maybe such will all arrive next year. If not, well thanks a ton for Sony since we have hack of sorts to get more MP and more DR under certain shooting conditions now.
p.50 #2 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
Skibum, I am no sensor fabricaiton expert, but what little do know tells me that Canon need a lot more than their FF sales, or even DSLR sales to make it worth their while to invest in a new fab. So it may be the rest of their sensor business which is at fault for not justifying a massive investment. Not surprisingly, Sony are now world n°1 in C-MOS sensors...
p.50 #3 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
jctriguy wrote:
Why is that innovative, they just slapped an existing sensor into a basically existing body and lens mount. Minor refinements to the NEX-7
And why no love for the Leica M? It can handle EF and a wide range of other lenses. MF with live view should be no problem.
Main issue is that the EF lens aperture can't be controlled by the Leica M camera. Also AF will not work. Sony's new Exmor sensor also has advantages over the currently used sensor in the latest Leica M series models.
Sony's current A7 series is currently the only feasible and best way out for Canon users who are eager to use this new sensor with their existing set of Canon lenses. But it is correct that Sony did not improve the sensor itself which was originally put into the D800(E) models. They had no need to do so - there is nothing better on the market yet.
p.50 #4 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
skibum5 wrote:
Anyway we can hope the long delays for more MP and 7D2 and such are because they are waiting for a new exmor-like sensor and maybe such will all arrive next year.
How do you know it will ever arrive? What if Sony has a patent or patents that Canon just can't get around?
However, I remain bemused by the level of frustration in evidence here among Canon shooters who want a better sensor. I get that some applications could do with it - but what were you doing the last few years, and why were you happy in your photography? Shouldn't you have been propping up the 4x5 film market?
(I'm not excusing Canon here. There is not a single Canon EOS body I would buy new.)
p.50 #5 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
Melcat, I understand the frustration, having bought a 5D3 3 1/2 years after my first 5D 2. It was very disappointing to get the same sensor, because in semi-conductors technology does improve, as demonstrated by Sony. Don't you think Apple buyers would be frustrated if the new iPhone had a new camera and other peripheral functions, but the same processor and screen, while Android phones kept improving, and this would last 3 years?
p.50 #6 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
philber wrote:
Don't you think Apple buyers would be frustrated if the new iPhone had a new camera and other peripheral functions, but the same processor and screen, while Android phones kept improving, and this would last 3 years?
Not if the processor was fast enough to run all the apps they wanted, and the screen was good enough. Beyond that, people will judge on other criteria, that is if they actually need a smartphone rather than a toy.
However, the camera and phone markets are fundamentally different. I don't go back to conversations I had 3 years ago and want to play them in hi-res audio. I do expect to print an image from long ago to my personal standard now and into the future, and if it wasn't captured to that standard I may have wasted my time making the picture. Hence my question as to why anyone would knowingly use equipment that did not already satisfy them.
(BTW I came late to digital photography - 2007. IMO before the 5D DSLRs were simply not good enough for what I wanted to do.)
p.50 #7 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
philber wrote:
Don't you think Apple buyers would be frustrated if the new iPhone had a new camera and other peripheral functions, but the same processor and screen, while Android phones kept improving, and this would last 3 years?
iFans would by a turd if it had a Apple logo on it. Even if it had the worlds slowest cpu, they would still look at it through rose tinted glasses.
Anyway, last I checked the crappy screen and retina display haven't changed much at all in 3 generation other than the tiny change from 3.7" to 4" and the linear bump in res to suit that. Apple's displays have long be surpassed.
p.50 #8 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
philber wrote:
Melcat, I understand the frustration, having bought a 5D3 3 1/2 years after my first 5D 2. It was very disappointing to get the same sensor, because in semi-conductors technology does improve, as demonstrated by Sony. Don't you think Apple buyers would be frustrated if the new iPhone had a new camera and other peripheral functions, but the same processor and screen, while Android phones kept improving, and this would last 3 years?
Seems like it wasn't all bad to stay around year 2007 due to budget... 5D3 would be nice improvement to have one day
p.50 #9 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
Yeah, IMHO Apple iPhones haven't evolved enough to justify the frequency of release. They take small steps, and it seems, desperately want to maintain Apple's profile - to keep Apple on the tip of everyone's tongues.
p.50 #10 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
I'm a landscape shooter with a decent investment in EF mount glass. I have a 5D II, but have been waiting patiently (somewhat) for Canon to produce a camera with improvements in DR and resolution. I do pretty well with the 5D II, but that doesn't mean I have to be forever satisfied. I've dabbled with the Sigma Merrills, and have some pretty amazing shots with those little gems. Running dual systems (like Canon and Nikon for example) would be costly. Dumping all my Canon gear and doing a wholesale switch would also be costly. Switching to medium format film would be even a harder sell. I've been shooting digital for 10 years, would be tough to go back to film (for me personally.)
Enter Sony, pretty much gives me what I'm looking for. With an adapter I can leverage my EF mount glass, keep my 5D II for situations when I'm not shooting landscapes and I need more advanced AF or higher FPS. My key landscape lenses are already manual focus, I use live view anyway. It's really that simple, dare I say reasonable in my mind (for my situation.) I understand for other types of shooting this would make no sense. But for mine it does.
If the a7R had a Canon badge on the front and said EOS-M2R, would there be so much thought put into this? You'd still need an adapter for EF mount lenses, granted AF would probably be better as Canon would support AF for all EF mount lenses (with autofocus). Not just Canon lenses after 2006. Would I be jazzed about that? Absolutely! But going the Sony route seems more reasonable (to me) than selling all my Canon gear (I will still use the 5D II at times) and switch to medium format film.
It really is that simple, and those in a similar position to me will find it reasonable. Others maybe not so much.
-Tim
melcat wrote:
How do you know it will ever arrive? What if Sony has a patent or patents that Canon just can't get around?
However, I remain bemused by the level of frustration in evidence here among Canon shooters who want a better sensor. I get that some applications could do with it - but what were you doing the last few years, and why were you happy in your photography? Shouldn't you have been propping up the 4x5 film market?
(I'm not excusing Canon here. There is not a single Canon EOS body I would buy new.)
p.50 #11 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
I'm on an every other release kind of schedule. Quite a big jump from the 4S to the 5S for me anyway. I think the subsidies that the wireless providers use in the US creates sort of on upgrade rhythm as well.
-Tim
Paul Mo wrote:
Yeah, IMHO Apple iPhones haven't evolved enough to justify the frequency of release. They take small steps, and it seems, desperately want to maintain Apple's profile - to keep Apple on the tip of everyone's tongues.
p.50 #12 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
tsdevine wrote:
...Enter Sony, pretty much gives me what I'm looking for. With an adapter I can leverage my EF mount glass, keep my 5D II for situations when I'm not shooting landscapes and I need more advanced AF or higher FPS. My key landscape lenses are already manual focus, I use live view anyway. It's really that simple, dare I say reasonable in my mind (for my situation.)
I'll be keeping my 1DX, 1DIV and 6D for other types of shooting, but the A7R looks pretty good for use with my TS-E, Zeiss, Oly, and Mamiya 645 lenses.
p.50 #13 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
tsdevine wrote:
It really is that simple, and those in a similar position to me will find it reasonable. Others maybe not so much.
I don't think anyone finds it unreasonable. It makes perfect sense for those people in that niche. I can do without the Canon is doomed mantra though and hasn't released anything worthwhile in years. I buy enough Canon gear to know that what I'm shooting now is a hell of a lot better then what I was shooting a few years ago.
p.50 #14 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
I got my A7R in Tokyo today (paid about $1950 USD).
I checked the compatibility with the following Canon lenses via Metabones Smart Adapter Mark III.
All of them worked flawlessly (except for sluggish AF, of course). Vignetting amount of 16-35/2.8L II on A7R is the same as that on my 5D Mark II.
EF 15/2.8 Fisheye
EF 16-35/2.8L II
EF 28/1.8
EF 35/1.4L
TS-E 45/2.8
Carl Zeiss Makro Planar 50/2 (EF mount)
EF 85/1.8
EF 100/2L IS Macro
EF 135/2L
Battery drains super fast. You need more than a few batteries for a day shoot.
p.50 #15 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
tororo wrote:
I got my A7R in Tokyo today (paid about $1950 USD).
I checked the compatibility with the following Canon lenses via Metabones Smart Adapter Mark III.
All of them worked flawlessly (except for sluggish AF, of course). Vignetting amount of 16-35/2.8L II on A7R is the same as that on my 5D Mark II.
EF 15/2.8 Fisheye
EF 16-35/2.8L II
EF 28/1.8
EF 35/1.4L
TS-E 45/2.8
Carl Zeiss Makro Planar 50/2 (EF mount)
EF 85/1.8
EF 100/2L IS Macro
EF 135/2L
Battery drains super fast. You need more than a few batteries for a day shoot.
Thanks for the good news on the Adapter. Is it sluggish AF usable ? like handheld portrait type shots?
p.50 #16 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
philber wrote:
Apparently, Sony pre-orders are triple of their estimates. Not all of these are Sony customers, methinks. Someone must be crying in their sake
No surprise here...like me, I do everything for better IQ. Who says only landscape shooter like better DR
p.50 #17 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
tororo wrote:
I got my A7R in Tokyo today (paid about $1950 USD).
I checked the compatibility with the following Canon lenses via Metabones Smart Adapter Mark III.
All of them worked flawlessly (except for sluggish AF, of course). Vignetting amount of 16-35/2.8L II on A7R is the same as that on my 5D Mark II.
EF 15/2.8 Fisheye
EF 16-35/2.8L II
EF 28/1.8
EF 35/1.4L
TS-E 45/2.8
Carl Zeiss Makro Planar 50/2 (EF mount)
EF 85/1.8
EF 100/2L IS Macro
EF 135/2L
Battery drains super fast. You need more than a few batteries for a day shoot.
My version of the EF 53/1.4L won't focus correctly with the metabones mark III, I think it's an older version of the lens with older firmware. You can add the EF 85 1.2/L to the list, it works with the metabones mark III.
p.50 #18 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
mttran wrote:
Thanks for the good news on the Adapter. Is it sluggish AF usable ? like handheld portrait type shots?
AF is usable for still objects when you have good amount of light. The focus speed and accuracy also depends on the lens. Via the Metabones adapter, my 28/1.8 focuses faster and more accurate than my 35/1.4L, which is the opposite when mounted on 5D Mark II.
Anyway, I confirmed what the Metabones' website says, "Autofocus speed is very slow and inadequate for most moving subjects. The autofocus speed is unfit for professional use for sure, and it would disappoint most enthusiasts."
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p.50 #19 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
MIRANDA1 wrote:
My version of the EF 53/1.4L won't focus correctly with the metabones mark III, I think it's an older version of the lens with older firmware. You can add the EF 85 1.2/L to the list, it works with the metabones mark III.
According to Metabones and the list with lenses they have tested, the 85/1,2 is a MF lens with the adapter. Only the mkII version have AF.
And the 35/1,4 must to have firmware (Ver.19) or later to have AF
p.50 #20 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
tororo wrote:
AF is usable for still objects when you have good amount of light. The focus speed and accuracy also depends on the lens. Via the Metabones adapter. my 28/1.8 focuses faster and more accurate than my 35/1.4L, which is the opposite when mounted on 5D Mark II.
Can we predict the shallow DOF and sharpness of the subject using EVF (not LCD) for most fast lenses. Is there any Focal Plan Micro Adjustment option build in with A7(r) ? Thanks in advance.
)! We are kings of hill and we have no need for a fast performance FF! We have no need! We are kings! And then with all the ridiculous games with MFA being locked out of the 40D firmware and then again in the 60D (As one rep mistakenly let lose, so as the 70D could look better and have more 'new' features compared to the 60D!) and the whole dribbling out AutoISO over more than a decade and with the new firmware the 1DX finally gets what every other makes has had in there rebels for years.