fredmiranda.com
Login

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              101              103              122       123       end
  

Archive 2013 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses

  
 
Fast6
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.102 #1 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


Well, I finally collected all the bits and pieces that make up my A7r rig and took them for a little test.

I purchased this camera entirely for architecture with my TS-E lenses, so things like AF speed are of zero importance to me. I purchased the Metabones III adapter and the Hejnar L-bracket and spacer, along with Hejnar's arca-style plate for the Manfrotto 410 geared head.

I'm lucky to have a nice test subject for architectural exteriors across the street from my office, and our parking garage has a straight-on unobstructed view.

I've attached three images with explanations as follows (EXIF theoretically intact for all):
1. First frame out of the camera. I've never thought to actually compose a frame for the first actuation and usually take a photo of something on my desk. Other than that, nothing noteworthy. No funny corners, no strong light sources to bounce around inside the adapter, etc.

2. A few hours later. Rad sky made things easy. Of note, 0.6s exposure and no hint of shutter-induced vibrations, although we're talking 17mm, but I was still wary.

3. This morning at sunrise. 90mm this time, 0.4s, and still no shutter-induced vibrations. Whew. I do notice smearing in 2 areas from the strong sunlight behind and to the right of the building, and I have not yet flocked the inside of my Metabones, so that seems like a must-do.

On none of these have I seen any funny corners. I've not yet made any frames with the 24 II or 45 TS-Es, but may if I find the time. So maybe I got the world's best-aligned Metabones, and no, I will not sell it

Other items of note:
Took me a couple passes through the menus and the manual to figure out how to make the display screen stay zoomed in during either Live View or playback. No idea why one wouldn't want that to stay zoomed in until told otherwise, but aligning and focusing a tilt-shift lens with it jumping back and forth was super annoying. Problem solved!

On two of the long exposures (consecutive) I made last night, the camera refused to let me zoom in to the images during playback; it gave me a black screen with a message along the lines of "unable to magnify." On similarly long exposures this morning, it was more than happy to. I'll call that a bug, but it would be super frustrating on a job to be unable to, say, check critical focus in a series of images.

I was in a bit of a panic to outfit my Metabones with flock paper in the next couple days, but a paid job I had this weekend just rescheduled, so my rush is temporarily alleviated. However, the job is an architectural interior, and I typically work with strobes just out of the frame, so making sure I don't run into that will be a priority before I show up. Hey, there's always the 1DX for backup

All in all, super happy so far. InSANE detail. Dodged a bullet on adapter alignment. Deep breath of relief regarding shutter vibration, even with long exposures at 90mm.

Thanks for reading

















Jan 08, 2014 at 04:08 PM
KiboOst
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.102 #2 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


Achim Sieger wrote:
Thank you so much!

However it definitely doesn't work on my Mark III adapter.
As soon as i take the battery out, replace it and switch the camera on again, the adapter is back in green mode.

I really wonder that it works on yours.
Maybe yours is running a different firmware?


huh ? Really strange ! Is there a way to check firmware version ? Because it absolutely works like that, I turn it in advanced mode maybe 10minutes after receiving it and never touched it again, chaging lenses and batteries a lot. Even installing/removing the grip etc...



Jan 08, 2014 at 04:27 PM
secondclaw
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.102 #3 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


Fast6 wrote:
On two of the long exposures (consecutive) I made last night, the camera refused to let me zoom in to the images during playback; it gave me a black screen with a message along the lines of "unable to magnify." On similarly long exposures this morning, it was more than happy to. I'll call that a bug, but it would be super frustrating on a job to be unable to, say, check critical focus in a series of images.
Thanks for reading

Yep - this is beyond stupid ... some of my long exposures get 'unable to magnify' as well. It almost seems that there is a size limit - if its at 36mb, its fine, but at 37mb (that happens sometimes with too much detail) it can't anymore. I would be curious to know what else can possibly be the difference, aside from subject matter (with exposure the same from shot to shot).



Jan 08, 2014 at 04:28 PM
Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On
p.102 #4 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


KiboOst wrote:
Totally agree with you. Now what ? Actually, Metabones seems the best adapter for us. Tweak it with anti reflective, and it is really great. But, you are right, and I guess that A7R have put lot more demand and feedback on these adapters, so I wouldn't be surprised to see new such adapters and Metabones updates on them. It's just what is the best tool now, is it usefull for you ? Sure, Metabones one isn't cheap, and need extra work, but is there any better solution ? Any 36mp high DR sensor from Canon ? No ...


Yes, Metabones is the best we can get at the moment. Black flock paper or Marc's velour idea fixes the reflections/flare issues.
I have been in contact with Novoflex and they will releasing an adapter (EOS-E mount) between March and June. They are aware of the potential flare issue.
Fred



Jan 08, 2014 at 09:40 PM
Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On
p.102 #5 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


KiboOst wrote:
Finnally good lens reporting (like recent Canon bodies) with A7R !!

Lr lenses:
http://www.nicolasgenette.com/temp/forums/xmpLensChange/LR_lenses_before.jpg

xmpLensChange:
http://www.nicolasgenette.com/temp/forums/xmpLensChange/xmpLensChange.jpg

Lr lenses after:
http://www.nicolasgenette.com/temp/forums/xmpLensChange/LR_lenses_after.jpg



Can we get this working on the Mac?
Great job!



Jan 08, 2014 at 09:41 PM
Jack Thompson
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: On
p.102 #6 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


Achim,

Thanks for the thorough explanation, and the links. So greatly appreciated, and again, thanks to everyone for posting their experiences. I can see the benefit of the having the advanced aperture mode where the aperture closes down in direct response to the camera settings.

I dialoged briefly with a fantastic landscape photographer who shoots 5D II with Canon TS-E s (24 II and 17) supplemented with a contax 35-70, often stitching multiple frames together to make very large, high quality prints. My kit is essentially the same. This photographer's work centers on the mountains, and having transitioned to a 5DII from the lightest (still heavy in comparison to a DSLR) large format field cameras, I would guess that a 5DII/TSE/Contax setup is very liberating for all the reasons that are obvious. Being an outdoor landscape photographer myself who also loves shooting in the mountains, the weight savings + resolution benefits + tilting screen of the A7R made me think he'd jump right on it.

To my surprise, he said he wasn't interested. He'd tried Sony DSLRs and apparently, the interface drove him nuts and left him with an impression that sony makes great sensors, and overall weak cameras. He was so satisfied with the results he was getting from his 5D II/TS-E/Contax kit that he resolved to just enjoy his current setup and if at some point canon makes a 36 or higher mp camera, awesome.

I must say that I can relate to some of this. The quality I get out of the same gear is amazing. After reading Fred's reviews of the 5DIII and the D800, I could see that the weak points in the D800's shooting experience from a landscape photographer's perspective could cause Canon shooters to focus on the positive of their systems and bide their time.

I must admit, I'm on the fence. Are there any dedicated landscape photographer who squeezes every ounce of quality out of their 5D II/III and TS-E lens that can say they believe all the compromises of the A7R (like turning a $400 adapter into a craft project) are totally worth it, and give a chance to shoot in the filed with an A7R with an adapter or their 5D, they'd grab the A7R every time?

I will say that there are somethings that I'm not on the fence about. The prospect of high quality, wide angle FE mount lenses in a light form factor (come on Zeiss!) are a fast and light outdoor adventurer's dream. I think Galen Rowell's approach of taking a light weight body and a small, light, wide angle prime or two into the field and coming back with the goods because you could see AND MOVE is as relevant today as ever. And the A7R could very possibly be the highest quality tool for this style that photography has ever seen. How can we not be excited about this?

Again, thank you all so much for helping photographers like me approach these decisions with such a wealth of information.



Jan 08, 2014 at 10:24 PM
artd
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.102 #7 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


I've been testing out my 17mm and 24mm TSE lenses on the A7r with a Metabones adapter recently. I've come to the conclusion that I'm fairly pleased with the results....other than the flare issues that have been documented in this thread. I'll be looking to pick up the flock paper...thanks to those who have investigated that issue in this thread!

I posted an article on my thoughts with some samples here:
http://www.arthurdomagala.com/blog/2014/01/the-sony-a7r-dealing-with-an-existential-camera-crisis/

The summary:
There is indeed a discernible gain in resolution when using the A7r. It may not be huge, but it is noticeable, especially in the center.

The resolution gain is still apparent even when the lenses are shifted.

The difference in resolution starts to diminish as the aperture gets stopped down and diffraction creeps in, but more resolution is still noticeable in my opinion at least up to f/13.

The corners will get soft on the A7r, but they do not seem to ever get worse than the 5DII, even when shifted (and in a couple of circumstances even stayed very slightly better). The discrepancy between sharp center to soft corner is more noticeable on an A7r (and more so at wider apertures)…but of course if this affects “real world” photos depends on the level of detail in the corners.

When the A7r files are downsampled to 5DII size, in some circumstances the resolution benefit can still be noticed.

Here's one of the samples. It shows where the A7r starts softening towards the edge of the frame, but also how it is sharper moving away from the edge.
http://www.arthurdomagala.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/24mm_unshifted_side_downsampled.jpg




Jan 09, 2014 at 01:03 AM
KiboOst
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.102 #8 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses




Fred Miranda wrote:
Can we get this working on the Mac?
Great job!


Fred, I use PC only and have only 64bits PC python environment. I have compiled it so anyone on a 64bits PC can use it, but have no idea how compiling for Mac. I can release the py source file (we are all sharing great stuff here) but you would need python2.7+pyqt environment. If someone know someone (!) would could compile it for mac I could see with him. It is totally portable and doesn't store anything anywhere unlike existing plugins for LR. It also does all lenses change in one go which is more convenient and lot faster.



Jan 09, 2014 at 01:58 AM
KKFung
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.102 #9 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


For the "unable to magnifiy" I figure out when I switch off the camera and remove the battery, put back the battery immediately, switch on the camera, the playback pictures can be magnified then.


Jan 09, 2014 at 02:00 AM
KiboOst
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.102 #10 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


I've blacked my metabones yesterday evening with edmund paper ! Nice colage party lol !
For anyone ordering edmund optic paper, you will need less than 1/20 of the received paper, so if you have friends needing it not long from you, don't buy it each of you, share it !

Another thing, we ever discussed about the small rotational play between the adapter and the A7R. On Marc Aurel drawing (thanks Marc, I cut my pieces from your drawing!!), I've cut another red piece, cut it in small sections, and put one of them on each side of the metabones mount on A7R side. I have no play anymore, and all is sturdy now ! It shouldn't change alignment, can even be better as it lightly force the adapter in the screw mount. And it will avoid any potential vibration from there !



Jan 09, 2014 at 03:18 AM
beetlephoto
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.102 #11 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


Achim Sieger wrote:
Fully agree with you, Gunzorro!

I contacted Metabones support yesterday to make them aware of this thread and my findings.
Pointed out that there is a serious issue and their adapter leads to low image quality due to internal reflections.
I've asked if they are aware and what they will do to solve the problem.

Here's their answer: (Full Email. I didn't skip any line...)

HI,A,

We improved this issue on EF mark III adapter now….

No need a black paper now.

Thank you!

Alex
GBI Ltd


What can one of us do with that answer?
I'm a little bit pissed off on this answer that doesn't tell and help me
...Show more
Haha, I have contacted them yesterday too... and here's the c/p from the reply:

Hi, J, Yes! We will improve our adapter ASAP. Thank you! Alex GBi Ltd

I guess they are not planning on fixing the ones sold already...



Jan 09, 2014 at 04:15 AM
Achim Sieger
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.102 #12 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


KiboOst wrote:
I've blacked my metabones yesterday evening with edmund paper ! Nice colage party lol !
For anyone ordering edmund optic paper, you will need less than 1/20 of the received paper, so if you have friends needing it not long from you, don't buy it each of you, share it !

Another thing, we ever discussed about the small rotational play between the adapter and the A7R. On Marc Aurel drawing (thanks Marc, I cut my pieces from your drawing!!), I've cut another red piece, cut it in small sections, and put one of them on each side of the metabones mount
...Show more

Wow... good idea!
I have the same issue that the camera slightly moves on the adapter.
Would you share a picture with us how you did it!

Thank you!

Best regards
Achim



Jan 09, 2014 at 11:05 AM
Achim Sieger
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.102 #13 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


beetlephoto wrote:
Haha, I have contacted them yesterday too... and here's the c/p from the reply:

Hi, J, Yes! We will improve our adapter ASAP. Thank you! Alex GBi Ltd

I guess they are not planning on fixing the ones sold already...



Strange behavior...
Telling me that everything is fixed now and to you that they will improve ASAP.

WTF?



Jan 09, 2014 at 11:07 AM
KiboOst
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.102 #14 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


Maybe they have read this thread now and see how they much improve their adapter ?


Jan 09, 2014 at 11:33 AM
secondclaw
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.102 #15 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


Thanks ...
A very odd bug ...

KKFung wrote:
For the "unable to magnifiy" I figure out when I switch off the camera and remove the battery, put back the battery immediately, switch on the camera, the playback pictures can be magnified then.




Jan 09, 2014 at 09:22 PM
secondclaw
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.102 #16 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


Maybe I'm missing something ... I flocked the Metabones with Edmunds paper same way as in your photos - covering entire inner tube light path plus the surface facing canon side. I get off-frame flares anyway (I tried TS/E 24mm and 24-70mm). To my eye the reflection appears to be slightly shorter/weaker, but its still readily apparent. Was anything else laminated aside from what's in your photos?

Thanks!

Achim Sieger wrote:
Hey there,

because of the findings and posting from Marc Aurel and Fred i also did some research on the flare issue that i want to share with you.
I own both the 24mm and 17mm PC-E lenses, the Sony A7R and the Metabones Mark III adapter.

First thing i did was to coat the inner surface of my adapter with Tetenal Camera varnish, black and deep mat.
This doesn't help at all to get rid of the flares. Save your bucks and don't even try it.

Next try was that i bought self adhesive Black Flock Paper.
http://www.edmundoptics.com/lab-production/general-tools/light-absorbing-black-out-material/1502?#products
F***ing expensive but the quality seems to
...Show more



Jan 10, 2014 at 12:49 AM
beetlephoto
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.102 #17 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


KiboOst wrote:
Maybe they have read this thread now and see how they much improve their adapter ?

I actually had included a link to this thread in my email, so they know what the issue exactly is.

Regarding the rotational play, it is because the locking pin in the adapter's mount, the one that locks into the hole that is on the Canon EF lens, is too small ( tolerances I guess), and "wobbles" in the lens' locking hole. I don't see any other "real" solution than adapting a new pin with a larger diameter. It should be fairly easy to do but I'm not sure it is worth the risk. Obviously this rotational play means the lens is not fully pressed against the adapter, so there has to be some kind of play on the other two axes. To what extent it has an influence on perfect alignment, I'm not sure, but I suspect it is not much, especially with wider/ultra wide lenses that have by nature a very large DOF.

As mentioned above another solution is to add thickness to the mount, to press the adapter/lens together with more pressure, which in the end will have an influence on the rotational play, as it will make the lens more difficult to turn (but it is not really solving the problem, but minimizing it). But to me the real solution would be to have a larger locking pin, the exact size of the hole on the EF lens. There should also be a benefit in making the springs in the adapter a bit stronger.

If we continue we will end up re-designing the adapter completely

Edited on Jan 10, 2014 at 03:52 AM · View previous versions



Jan 10, 2014 at 03:45 AM
beetlephoto
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.102 #18 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


Achim Sieger wrote:
Strange behavior...
Telling me that everything is fixed now and to you that they will improve ASAP.

WTF?

Agreed, this is a weird behavior. The guy who replied obviously isn't a native speaker, so maybe there was a miscommunication.

Can't wait to see what Novoflex comes up with, although it will probably be 1/3 of the price of the camera itself... But quality is great with Novoflex, you get (almost) what you pay for. I have a Novoflex NEX/ Leica M adapter, and the fit is amazing, nothing moves once it is locked, perfect fit.




Jan 10, 2014 at 03:49 AM
chrisgibbs
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.102 #19 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


Hi Guys, Has anyone played with the Sony Alpha wides using Sony's own adaptor, any Issues there? ~Chris


Jan 12, 2014 at 03:29 PM
efgm
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.102 #20 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses


KiboOst wrote:
I've blacked my metabones yesterday evening with edmund paper ! Nice colage party lol !
For anyone ordering edmund optic paper, you will need less than 1/20 of the received paper, so if you have friends needing it not long from you, don't buy it each of you, share it !



Please be aware that this may not be the best solution as this particular paper has fibres that come off and it will pollute your sensor. Use at your own risk. It's a bit ridiculous that a lot of adapters, some of which are very expensive (even those that are are black) are causing internal reflections and sensor flare in this way.



Jan 13, 2014 at 01:01 AM
1       2       3              101              103              122       123       end




FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              101              103              122       123       end
    
 

Welcome back
Log in to your account